Uvalde

[Nell]

This country, this world, has a spiritual problem that requires a spiritual solution. All the laws, political resolve and rhetoric cannot deal with the wiles of the one who comes to kill, steal and destroy.

On February 8, 2011, Harvard Professor Clay Christensen, at Harvard Business School, observed:

Sometime ago I had a conversation with a Marxist economist from China. He was coming to the end of a Fulbright Fellowship here in Boston, and I asked him if he had learned anything that was surprising or unexpected.

And without any hesitation he said 'Yes, I had no idea how critical religion is to the functioning of democracy. The reason why democracy works, he said, is not because the government was designed to oversee what everybody does.

But rather, democracy works because most people, most of the time, voluntarily choose to obey the law. And in your past, most Americans attended a church or synagogue every week. And they were taught there by people who they respected. Americans followed these rules because they had come to believe that they weren't just accountable to society, they were accountable to God.”

My Chinese friend heightened a vague but nagging concern I harbored inside that as religion loses its influence over the lives of Americans, what will happen to our democracy? Where are the institutions that are going to teach the next generation of Americans that they too need to voluntarily choose to obey the laws? Because if you take away religion, you cannot hire enough police.

Nell

[Bible-believer]

Indeed. America is suffering the consequence of banning the Bible and praying on campus. I remember a pastor who said America started to go downhill when the Supreme Court banned organized Bible reading for religious and moral instruction in 1963.

[Paul Vusik]

The problem in America is not laws, or lack there of. As stated in the first post here, there is no longer anyone out there preaching and teaching God, or very few. Its about making “disciples”. It’s an entertainment venue for the most part. The government passed laws here, that went against what the Bible teaches, and the churches folded like a folding chair. It was a soft landing nonetheless, they got what they wanted in exchange, “Money”. Bigger church buildings, bigger donations, bigger crowds, but they must obey their masters on what they can talk and teach about, otherwise all the money flow stops. It starts with schools, and when the current dj that runs this country comes out and say’s that the children “are not ours when they are in school”, and most parents look the other way, then events like this should come as no surprise.
Another point, is what drives me even more crazy, is that people look the other way 99% of the time, but when something happens like this, they make it sound like it’s an outlier, how can it be? There is a baby killed every 37 seconds in this country and no one ever stops their life to consider the consequences and repercussions. Sorry if it’s offensive to some, but this will not just disappear into thin air. The same people that teaching those kids in school, are the same people that promote murder at all costs, and participate in it daily, between 2500-2700 times a day. So no one should be shocked when it’s done in the open rather that behind closed doors. It is awful, and the horrific images that are displayed on your TV screens to invoke response and outrage, is just that. Look over here and don’t look there. I would not want to be in the shoes of those parents whose kids are no longer, or even consider their pain and suffering. They are just casualties of fallen world that’s run by the satanic and demonic people, who for the attainment of their next “high”, and fulfillment of their spiritual duty, are willing to sacrifice innocent people. Death, destruction, murder, is what feeds this beast, and it’s requires daily sacrifices in order to keep it satisfied.

Not sure if this kind of post is approved on this forum, or if it will appear here, so if it’s not, then please remove it.

[Trapped]

I agree with the statements about people voluntarily agreeing to obey the law, being accountable to society and to God, but I guess I don't know how to square this up with, say very unreligious or almost atheistic countries in Europe who do not endure what feel like daily mass shootings. Is it the combination of godlessness plus the prevalent accessibility guns in the U.S.? Do those God-spurning countries not have the access to guns we have? It feels like there are probably a mess of factors, both long-term and short-term. I'd like to understand it because I cannot deal with a world that increasingly makes no sense anywhere I look.

[countmeworthy]

I live in San Antonio Tx about 80 miles south East of Uvalde. Anson Jones middle school is in lockdown here in SA as it had social media threats. This is happening as I write this post. My friends’ daughter work at this school.

Another middle school had a gunman go into that school but was apprehended right away.

I heard a talking head yesterday say: It was not ok to kill children yesterday. But the pro abortionists would have approved of their deaths 10 yrs ago while they were babies in the womb.

People have pushed away their Creator and are believing, WAIT! worst than that, embracing the lies of the devil.

My own brother is a very angry, bitter man. It stems from not letting go hurt, rejection which in turn is making him hate everyone including me. He has taken extremely good care of me these past 4 years both physically and financially. Very responsible in every way. But I believe he is so mad at God, he refuses to see the Light and refuses to receive God’s love.

He is extremely contrary and full of pride. He has pushed people who love him dearly away.

He doesn’t drink or do drugs.

He says the Bible is full of lies even though he claims to believe in Jesus. Shall I say “thankfully” he is in Spain right now for most of the summer????

No need to be concerned. I do not feel threatened in any way. He is miserable and resents that in spite of everything I have been through I am happy and content. (the LORD has never forsaken me. He has and WILL ALWAYS come through for me.)

Yet I know THE LORD WILL rescue my brother. He is extremely Merciful and Compassionate. My GOD rescued LOT before destroying Sodom and Gomorrah!! There was nothing good about that man in my eyes. He made Abram’s life miserable. He was willing to let the wicked men rape his daughters in exchange for not hurting the angels who came to rescue him and his family, angels that looked like men.

Yet God received Abram’s petitions. Furthermore called Lot righteous. Imagine that!! What HOPE we have for our loved ones!

2 Peter2:7-8

He rescued righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the perverted conduct of unscrupulous people
8 (for by what he saw and heard that righteous man, while living among them, felt his righteous soul tormented day after day by their lawless deeds),

Surely God will heal my brother’s broken heart from all the rejection and hurt he has experienced and continues to harbor in his 65 years of life. I have prayed years and years for him but Satan has a very strong grip on him. Still my God will save, deliver and heal him.

I truly believe in the Power of the Blood of Jesus and the Power that is in my/our Savior’s Name, Jesus.

I bring this up because evil is lurking everywhere

2 Timothy 3:1-5

But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people.

Still JESUS IS THE VICTOR! He is Christ IN US, THE HOPE OF GLORY!!!! Blessed and Holy is the Name above every name!!! JESUS!!!! KING of kings and LORD of lords. Rest assured. Every knee will bow down. And every tongue WILL confess JESUS CHRIST IS LORD!! Glory to His Name!!! Amen and Amen.

[Paul Vusik]

Originally Posted by Trapped

I agree with the statements about people voluntarily agreeing to obey the law, being accountable to society and to God, but I guess I don't know how to square this up with, say very unreligious or almost atheistic countries in Europe who do not endure what feel like daily mass shootings. Is it the combination of godlessness plus the prevalent accessibility guns in the U.S.? Do those God-spurning countries not have the access to guns we have? It feels like there are probably a mess of factors, both long-term and short-term. I'd like to understand it because I cannot deal with a world that increasingly makes no sense anywhere I look.

I would say that if you actually do a little research in to the statistics, there are mass shooting everywhere in the world on almost daily basis. They are however never go reported here in the US, because it goes against the agendas of the people that run this place. Simple and plain as that. I hate politics and all associated with it, so I don’t want to waste breath and energy on these people, none of them stand for anything righteous or Godly.

One thing that I know for sure, evil and it’s servants will always find a way to do their business. They don’t live by or follow laws anyway. In our “awesome” state of Slaverfonia, which has pretty strict gun laws, a daily visit to Oakland and Stockton will leave you thinking you visited a third world country with no laws at all.

Lastly, as most here know, I’m not from this country, however I have been here for 25 years. I like studying history, especially the people that had some boldness in the past in this country to see where things were going astray 60-70-80 years ago. One of those people, is Paul Harvey, a commentator in 1965, that said some things then that are almost exact to the tee. I will attach a clip below for those that have couple of min to spare.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4LWPcEo2gV0

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Paul Vusik

I would say that if you actually do a little research in to the statistics, there are mass shooting everywhere in the world on almost daily basis. They are however never go reported here in the US, because it goes against the agendas of the people that run this place. Simple and plain as that. I hate politics and all associated with it, so I don’t want to waste breath and energy on these people, none of them stand for anything righteous or Godly.

From the research I have done, the common conclusion is that the United States outstrips all other countries on the earth when it comes to mass shootings. Yes, mass shootings have occurred in other places, but not like what is happening in the U.S.

Of course mass shootings elsewhere are reported here in the U.S. Is every single one always reported? No. But for you to say they are "never" reported is not true at all. I am aware of numerous that have happened in Europe and Asia over the past decade, and I know of them because the news.......reported it.

Trapped

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by Bible-believer

Indeed. America is suffering the consequence of banning the Bible and praying on campus. I remember a pastor who said America started to go downhill when the Supreme Court banned organized Bible reading for religious and moral instruction in 1963.

I got saved at work when I was 21 yrs young. I got saved through a brother in the LC who was reading his Bible (KJ) in the break room. I was curious about what he was reading. So I asked him. He opened his Bible and took me from Genesis to Revelation.

He must have had a strong anointing on him as I was blown away by the Word of God!!

It is becoming increasingly hard to openly talk about how GOOD the LORD is without backlash. I read a comment..a question yesterday…”Where is God?”

Hmmm…

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by Trapped

I agree with the statements about people voluntarily agreeing to obey the law, being accountable to society and to God, but I guess I don't know how to square this up with, say very unreligious or almost atheistic countries in Europe who do not endure what feel like daily mass shootings. Is it the combination of godlessness plus the prevalent accessibility guns in the U.S.? Do those God-spurning countries not have the access to guns we have? It feels like there are probably a mess of factors, both long-term and short-term. I'd like to understand it because I cannot deal with a world that increasingly makes no sense anywhere I look.

The majority of European countries are atheistic from what I have read. There is still an air of relgiousity due to the massive Catholic cathedrals.

But what I think has separated this country from Europe is what Paul Vusik wrote

there is no longer anyone out there preaching and teaching God, or very few. Its about making “disciples”. It’s an entertainment venue for the most part. The government passed laws here, that went against what the Bible teaches, and the churches folded like a folding chair. It was a soft landing nonetheless, they got what they wanted in exchange, “Money”. Bigger church buildings, bigger donations, bigger crowds, but they must obey their masters on what they can talk and teach about, otherwise all the money flow stops. It starts with schools, and when the current dj that runs this country comes out and say’s that the children “are not ours when

I would say the church as a whole is not teaching people about Jesus. Not teaching people to walk in the Spirit.

Thanks to the 5013c tax exempt the mega churches who broadcast on TV and all man made church organizations can write off everything from cars to homes to buildings to clothes etc….

Then they scare people telling them they are stealing from God if they don’t tithe. (Malachi 3:8-10) This one is HUGE!

Parents are not reading their bibles with their children. Our Christian community has relied on the pulpit and Sunday school to teach the kids or better yet entertain the kids, babysit them.

Though God was speaking to Israel in Deuteronomy 6, surely it applies to us.

Hear, Israel! The Lord is our God, the Lord is one! 5 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. 6 These words, which I am commanding you today, shall be on your heart. 7 And you shall repeat them diligently to your sons and speak of them when you sit in your house, when you walk on the road, when you lie down, and when you get up. 8 You shall also tie them as a sign to your hand, and they shall be as frontlets on your forehead. 9 You shall also write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates. Deuteronomy 6:4-9

Sigh…

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by countmeworthy

The majority of European countries are atheistic from what I have read. There is still an air of relgiousity due to the massive Catholic cathedrals.

But what I think has separated this country from Europe is what Paul Vusik wrote


there is no longer anyone out there preaching and teaching God, or very few. Its about making “disciples”. It’s an entertainment venue for the most part. The government passed laws here, that went against what the Bible teaches, and the churches folded like a folding chair. It was a soft landing nonetheless, they got what they wanted in exchange, “Money”. Bigger church buildings, bigger donations, bigger crowds, but they must obey their masters on what they can talk and teach about, otherwise all the money flow stops. It starts with schools, and when the current dj that runs this country comes out and say’s that the children “are not ours when

I would say the church as a whole is not teaching people about Jesus. Not teaching people to walk in the Spirit.

Thanks to the 5013c tax exempt the mega churches who broadcast on TV and all man made church organizations can write off everything from cars to homes to buildings to clothes etc….

Then they scare people telling them they are stealing from God if they don’t tithe. (Malachi 3:8-10) This one is HUGE!

Parents are not reading their bibles with their children. Our Christian community has relied on the pulpit and Sunday school to teach the kids or better yet entertain the kids, babysit them.

Though God was speaking to Israel in Deuteronomy 6, surely it applies to us.

Sigh…

Are you saying that the reason the U.S. has more mass shootings is because it has a U.S. Christian church which largely operates like a money-making entertainment venue, rather than being a primarily atheistic country? This means.....the safeness of a country goes, left-to-right from safest to not safest:

genuine Christian > atheistic > messed-up Christian > (presumably something else)

......that we would be safer as an atheistic country rather than what we are right now, messed-up Christian country?

Sorry, just trying to understand the statements being made and maybe I'm not quite following.

Trapped

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Paul Vusik

I would say that if you actually do a little research in to the statistics, there are mass shooting everywhere in the world on almost daily basis. They are however never go reported here in the US, because it goes against the agendas of the people that run this place. Simple and plain as that.

Exactly. The masses are only mad about what they are told to be mad about.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Paul Vusik

... There is a baby killed every 37 seconds in this country and no one ever stops their life to consider the consequences and repercussions. Sorry if it’s offensive to some, but this will not just disappear into thin air. The same people that teaching those kids in school, are the same people that promote murder at all costs, and participate in it daily, between 2500-2700 times a day. So no one should be shocked when it’s done in the open rather that behind closed doors. ...

Not sure if this kind of post is approved on this forum, or if it will appear here, so if it’s not, then please remove it.

This is my thought exactly. Not to diminish the Uvalde (You-val-de) disaster, but to highlight the apparent cognative dissonance. Not only are children being murdered by other children, as in Uvalde, but children are willfully being sacrificed to the idols of one or both parents every day. There is little to no difference between abortion and child sacrifice (infanticide). I began this topic (quoting myself...) with this statement:

"This country, this world, has a spiritual problem that requires a spiritual solution. All the laws, political resolve and rhetoric cannot deal with the wiles of the one who comes to kill, steal and destroy."

However it is defined, the solution is spiritual, not political, and begins with the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Nell

[Paul Vusik]

Originally Posted by Nell

This is my thought exactly. Not to diminish the Uvalde (You-val-de) disaster, but to highlight the apparent cognative dissonance. Not only are children being murdered by other children, as in Uvalde, but children are willfully being sacrificed to the idols of one or both parents every day. There is little to no difference between abortion and child sacrifice (infanticide). I began this topic (quoting myself...) with this statement:

"This country, this world, has a spiritual problem that requires a spiritual solution. All the laws, political resolve and rhetoric cannot deal with the wiles of the one who comes to kill, steal and destroy."

However it is defined, the solution is spiritual, not political, and begins with the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Nell

Nell,

My sincere apologies if I came across as diminishing this tragedy. Wasn’t my intention at all, but was just trying to show the hypocrisy between the reality vs how the main masses operate in our society. It’s hard to believe sometimes, but nevertheless you see it every day.
I agree with you that the solution is of the spiritual kind only, and not anything else. There is no other alternatives. I just have a hypothetical question for you:

If, by some miracle, right before this event, you would have had 5 min of time to stand before this person and preached the Gospel, do you think he would even be able to hear you, let alone respond to the message?

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by Trapped

Are you saying that the reason the U.S. has more mass shootings is because it has a U.S. Christian church which largely operates like a money-making entertainment venue, rather than being a primarily atheistic country? This means.....the safeness of a country goes, left-to-right from safest to not safest:

genuine Christian > atheistic > messed-up Christian > (presumably something else)

......that we would be safer as an atheistic country rather than what we are right now, messed-up Christian country?

Sorry, just trying to understand the statements being made and maybe I'm not quite following.

Trapped

Looks like you did not read my entire post.

So here is the order of reasons why I think our Christian walk as a whole has declined

1) I would say the church as a whole is not teaching people about Jesus; Not teaching people to walk in the Spirit. Our Christian community has relied way too much on the pulpit and Sunday school or the Catholic mass and rosary to the Catholics for kids’ spiritual or religious upbringing. This list includes the Lord’s recovery too

2) Parents are not reading the Bible for themselves much less to their children as noted in Deuteronomy 6:4-9

Though God was speaking to Israel in Deuteronomy 6, surely it applies to us:

“Hear, O Israel! The Lord is our God, the Lord is One!

5 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.

6 These words, which I am commanding you today, shall be on your heart.

7 And you shall repeat them diligently to your sons and speak of them when you sit in your house, when you walk on the road, when you lie down, and when you get up.

8 You shall also tie them as a sign to your hand, and they shall be as frontlets on your forehead. 9 You shall also write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.” Deuteronomy 6:4-9

The other stuff on Megachurches is food for thought.

One more thing. Not many Christians apply the Blood of Jesus on themselves, their children, their loved ones even their homes and finances for protection, for cleansing, for purification, for sanctification.

Judgement first comes to the House of God.

As for this country. Our constitution was founded on God’s principles. We sing or used to sing “God bless America”. Our politicians end their speeches with “God bless you and God bless America”. Yet it is becoming increasingly Godless and lawless. Should God bless America??? I think it’s more important to ask God for MERCY

[Nell]

Originally Posted by countmeworthy

.. Should God bless America??? I think it’s more important to ask God for MERCY

The American church and America nationwide is undoubtedly under God's judgment for all the reasons you stated. I believe God's judgment IS His mercy.

Nell

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Paul Vusik

Nell,

My sincere apologies if I came across as diminishing this tragedy. Wasn’t my intention at all, but was just trying to show the hypocrisy between the reality vs how the main masses operate in our society. It’s hard to believe sometimes, but nevertheless you see it every day.
I agree with you that the solution is of the spiritual kind only, and not anything else. There is no other alternatives. I just have a hypothetical question for you:

If, by some miracle, right before this event, you would have had 5 min of time to stand before this person and preached the Gospel, do you think he would even be able to hear you, let alone respond to the message?

Paul, I didn't think you were diminishing the Uvalde tragedy. I see the hypocrisy you pointed out, too.

When we preach the gospel to any man, that's where our responsibility ends. This is our charge, but we cannot control the outcome.

We hope and pray that someone can hear us and change their path, but there are no guarantees...each person has a free will which God will not violate. If the Uvalde shooter could have heard the gospel, we thank God. If he could not hear and respond, we also thank God that this young man heard and was given an opportunity to take another way.

Nell

[Paul Vusik]

Thanks for your honest response Nell.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Paul Vusik

Thanks for your honest response Nell.

Not necessary. Not my first “honest response”.