Local Church Discussions  

Go Back   Local Church Discussions > Orthodoxy - Christian Teaching

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-04-2022, 08:04 AM   #1
Matt Anderson
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 155
Default Re: Prophecy - The End Times

Israel of God - part 3

I am going to paint a brief picture which adds to what you already know. We all know that Jesus' bloodline ancestry goes through Judah. Jesus is the Lion of the tribe of Judah and the Bible records this lineage through its record of so-and-so begat so-and-so right down to Jesus.

What we need to add to this understanding to more fully see the Israel of God is that there is another path (or stream) through the history of the Bible that flows by election. When I say election, I mean the "choice of God". It is not a matter of blood line, but of God's choice (i.e. election). This additional path (or stream) has some additional complexity, but after seeing it in many places in scripture over the years I believe it is fully represented in scripture.

We have already seen in part 1 that Abraham and Jacob/Israel received something important by God's choice.
  1. Abraham promised to be the father of MANY NATIONS. This was a matter of the choice of God and not because of Abraham's lineage.
  2. Jacob as Israel promised to be the father of A NATION and MANY NATIONS. This was a matter of the choice of God as seen by God's direct interactions with Jacob/Israel.

Let's look at the next choice by God.

1. As mentioned in part 1, Jacob/Israel blesses Ephraim and Manasseh as his own 1st and 2nd born sons in place of Reuben and Simeon. The specific blessings are seen in Genesis 48:19

Quote:
Genesis 48:19 But his father (Jacob/Israel) refused and said, “I know, my son (Joseph); I know. He (Manasseh) also shall become a people, and he (Manasseh) also shall be great, but his younger brother (Ephraim) shall be greater than him (Manasseh), and his (Ephraim) offspring shall become a multitude of nations.”
Based solely on Genesis 48, we cannot see that this is God's choice. It looks like Jacob's/Israel's choice. It is not. It is a choice made by Jacob/Israel and confirmed by God in Jeremiah 31:9b as God's choice. We will look at Jeremiah 31 later because the timing of God's choice is very significant. It is mentioned here to confirm that the ADOPTION and BLESSING placed on Ephraim was God's will and choice, not just an action by Jacob/Israel apart from the will of God.

Quote:
31:9b for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.
At this point, consider this...

Ephraim has been changed from the LAST (2nd born to Joseph) to the FIRST (1st born of Israel by means of adoption). I believe this is a picture in the Old Testament that depicts what happens to christians as we are adopted into the Israel of God. Our adoption is spiritual in nature (Romans 8:15) and we wait for the adoption of our bodies (Romans 8:23). The spiritual nature of the adoption does not make our adoption lesser, but greater.

So I am opening up a new path/stream which is looking at things which are the Old Testament representation of things which are spiritual realities for us, as christians, after Christ has died, resurrected, ascended and the Holy Spirit is given.

So, I am putting forward two paths/streams. One stream that follows a blood lineage and a second path/stream that follows spiritual realities which are true for us by God's choosing and they represent a birthright/inheritance shared with us by our eldest brother (Jesus) in the Israel of God. Again, this is not my interpretation. This is God's presentation through the scripture. See 1 Chronicles 5:1-2 and note that these verses were written by Ezra after the return from Babylon. Ezra was looking back on the history of Israel and providing some interpretation of historical events. Ezra states there are two paths/streams in plain text.

Quote:
The sons of Reuben the firstborn of Israel (for he was the firstborn, but when he defiled the couch of his father, his birthright was given to the sons of Joseph, the son of Israel, so that he was not enrolled in the genealogy as the firstborn, 2 though Judah became strong among his brothers and a chief came from him, but the birthright belonged to Joseph).
Judah - becomes strong and a chief came from him (i.e. the chief, David, also pointing to Jesus as Lion of the Tribe of Judah)
Joseph & the sons of Judah - the birthright! <-- wow, THE BIRTHRIGHT is set on a second path/stream through the history of Israel which is separate from Judah.

Next, we will look at the blessings of Jacob/Israel and Moses on our key characters with these two paths/streams in mind. These blessings are prophecies bestowed on the children of Jacob/Israel.

We have already seen the blessing on Ephraim and Manasseh, so we will look at a few other key characters to help draw a picture.
- Manasseh - he shall become a people
- Ephraim - he shall become a (malo goyim) which can be accurately translated two ways. 1) multitude of nations OR 2) fullness of gentiles

In a very long-winded fashion, I am writing down more about the Israel of God. I cannot really apologize for the long-windedness. It is very important to establish my definition of the Israel of God based on what God has presented in scripture. If I succeed in expanding your definition of the Israel of God then I may also succeed in helping you to realize that the common belief—that the Great Tribulation does not apply to "the Church"—may be false. We may fall under an "Audience of God" that is represented underneath the title of Israel. This would mean that in order to see our part in the Great Tribulation, we would have to more fully understand what PART of Israel we belong to and what portions of End Times prophetic scripture applies to us.

More later...
Matt Anderson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2022, 08:22 AM   #2
Nell
Admin/Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,119
Default Re: Prophecy - The End Times

Matt,

This is really a "big gulp"! Something that helped me a lot was to go back and read all 3 parts of "Israel of God".

I may have said this before, but it's important to know the "audience", or who God is speaking to. Also, just because the word "Israel" is in the verse, there are multiple groups called by the title "Israel". Interesting that there is not one person in the Bible who was named "Israel" but God changed the name to Israel. Also, be mindful of the many "word pictures" which may or may not be literal. This is developed in the New Testament as "parables".

Thanks for all your work on this topic.

Nell
Nell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2022, 04:44 PM   #3
Matt Anderson
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 155
Default Re: Prophecy - The End Times

After some delay, here is my final post on the Israel of God... There is so much to capture, it is impossible to write it all down. I keep finding more as I read more in recent years, but here is what I will stop with on this subject...

If you haven't already noticed, I am relying on a combination of the types, figures and the history of Israel to paint a picture of the Israel of God. There is a lot to this picture. I am going to try to make this my final post on the Israel of God which will leave a number of things unsaid.

Key Blessings
1. Read the blessing on Judah by Jacob/Israel (Gen 49:8-12) and Moses (Deut 33:7)
2. Read the blessing on Joseph by Jacob/Israel (Gen 49:22-26) and Moses (Deut 33:13-17)

You cannot help but notice when you compare these two that the blessings on Joseph seems much greater than the ones on Judah. Keep in mind what 1 Chronicles 5:1-2 says. Judah has a chief come from him, but Joseph and his adopted son's have the birthright.

There is one part of the blessing on Joseph by Moses that seems to have End Times significance. This particular verse always used to stick out to me and left me with the question "huh?!?" until I began to understand about Ephraim and Manasseh as sons of adoption and Joseph as a perfect type of Christ in the Old Testament. Joseph is not just a type of Christ in His first coming, but also in His second coming.

Deuteronomy 33:17
Quote:
17 As the firstborn of his ox, majesty ⌊belongs to him⌋, and his horns are the horns of a wild ox; with them he drives people together, and they are the myriads of Ephraim, and they are the thousands of Manasseh.”
KEY MOMENTS IN HISTORY
1. Starting with the adoption of Ephraim as adopted into the place of the FIRSTBORN by Jacob/Israel, Ephraim is placed by choice to inherit the TITLE OF ISRAEL and position of the HEAD OF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL.
2. There are two faithful witnesses who spy out the Promised Land, Joshua and Caleb. It is no mistake that Caleb is from Judah and Joshua is from Ephraim. Who is the "true and faithful" witness? Jesus Christ. There are two aspects of Jesus Christ foreshadowed in Joshua (Ephraim) and Caleb (Judah). There is an aspect that is tied to the blood line of Christ through Judah and Jesus's first coming. There is a second aspect that is tied to God's choice (election) and the birthright which belongs to Ephraim/Manasseh.
3. Given Ephraim's status as title bearer (Israel) and head of the house of Israel, it is correct that Joshua (i.e. Yeshua) leads the children of Israel into the Promised Land at the end of their wandering in the wilderness. I always used to wonder why Caleb as representing Judah and in the line of Christ didn't lead them in, but now I see what God connected with Ephraim,
4. The tent of meeting does not go to Jerusalem when they enter the promised land. It goes to Shiloh in the territory of Ephraim. God's choice was Ephraim at this time. Later God rejects Ephraim and moves the Ark of the Covenant and the tent of meeting. This choice of God is recorded in Psalm 78. The whole Psalm is a historical review of Israel, but verses 56-68 show this change of location.

Psalm 78:56-60
Quote:
56 But they tested and rebelled against God Most High and did not keep his statutes.
57 And they turned and were treacherous like their ancestors. They twisted like a crooked bow.
58 For they provoked him to anger with their high places, and made him jealous with their images.
59 God heard and he was very angry and rejected Israel utterly.
60 So he abandoned the dwelling place at Shiloh, the tent he had placed among humankind.
In verse 59, it says he rejected Israel utterly. This is directed at the current title bearer of Israel (Ephraim). It is not how most think of the word Israel in our modern age. This is one of those examples where you have to really understand the timing of a verse and who the audience really is.

Psalm 78:67-70

Quote:
67 And he rejected the tent of Joseph, and did not choose the tribe of Ephraim,
68 but chose the tribe of Judah, Mount Zion that he loved.
69 And he built his sanctuary like the heights, like the earth that he established forever.
70 And he chose David his servant and took him from the sheepfolds.
71 He brought him from following nursing ewes to shepherd Jacob, his people, and Israel, his inheritance.
5. This Psalm gives us a clear record of God's transition from Ephraim to Judah. I believe that Judah became the title bearer of "Israel" as the period of Judges ended and the United Kingdom begins.
6. The United Kingdom splits into two parts. The Northern Kingdom (aka Israel or Ephraim) and the Southern Kingdom (aka Judah). The title of Israel goes with Ephraim (the Northern Kingdom).
7. The Northern Kingdom is destroyed (documented as a divorce) of one of the wives of God. Sounds strange, but read Ezekiel 23 where two sisters are identified (Oholah and Oholibah) as belonging to the Lord as wives. The language of an adulterous wife is ascribed to the Northern and Southern kingdoms repeatedly. Eventually, in Hosea 1, God divorces the Northern Kingdom, but preserves His relationship with the Southern Kingdom.
8. Multiple scriptures point to the restoration of Ephraim (i.e. Israel/Northern Kingdom) even after they are divorced. All of these references are prophetic.

The most significant references based on my reading to date are:

Jeremiah 31:9b (for I am a Father to Israel and Ephraim is my firstborn) which is part of the entire chapter which introduces the New Covenant with the "house of Israel".

Ezekiel 37:21-22
Quote:
21 And speak to them, ‘Thus says the Lord Yahweh: “Look! I am taking the Israelites from among the nations to which they went, and I will gather them from everywhere, and I will bring them to their own soil. 22 And I will make them into one nation in the land on the mountains of Israel, and they will all have one king as their king, and they will not again be two nations and will not again divide into two kingdoms again.
Hosea (multiple parts), but I will mention the reference that connects to Paul in the New Testament

Hosea 1:8–11 (LEB)
Quote:
8 And when she had weaned Lo-ruhamah, she conceived and bore a son. 9 And he said, “Name him Lo-ammi, for you are not my people and I am not your God. 10 The number of the children of Israel will be like the sand of the sea that cannot be measured or counted; and in the place where it is said to them, “You are not my people,” it will be said to them, “Children of the living God.” 11 Then the children of Judah and Israel will be gathered together, and they will appoint for themselves one head; and they will take possession of the land, for great is the day of Jezreel.
This connects us back to the New Testament where in Romans, Paul says

Romans 9:23–26 (LEB)
Quote:
23 And he did so in order that he could make known the riches of his glory upon vessels of mercy that he prepared beforehand for glory, 24 us whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles? 25 As he also says in Hosea, “I will call those who were not my people, ‘My people,’ and those who were not loved, ‘Loved.’ 26 And it will be in the place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’”
Paul equates the verses that are directed at the House of Israel to us as Gentiles. Hosea shows us that God's action to cast out the Northern Kingdom by destroying them and scattering the people wherever the Assyrians sent them was an action to "seed the field" of the earth (i.e. seed the field of the Gentiles) with some who would later become the ekklessia ("ones called out of" the world). So, yes, the church is sourced from the Gentiles, but the Gentiles have also been "seeded" with the Israelites. This isn't to say that every Christian has to have a heritage back to the Northern Kingdom, but it is to say that God has been tracking every single one whom He cast out and their progeny. He is calling them back along with making a call to ALL the gentiles.

Matt
Matt Anderson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2022, 09:39 AM   #4
Raptor
Member
 
Raptor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 418
Default Re: Prophecy - The End Times

This is must be true, right OHIO ? Oh, look 14 million views, surely it must be true, . This is proof Antichrist is coming:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bntfUA6TmLs
Raptor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2022, 10:26 AM   #5
Ohio
Member
 
Ohio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Greater Ohio
Posts: 13,693
Default Re: Prophecy - The End Times

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptor View Post
This is must be true, right OHIO ? Oh, look 14 million views, surely it must be true, . This is proof Antichrist is coming:
Hello? Anybody home? You must have the wrong number.

Can anyone explain what Raptor is talking about?
__________________
Ohio's motto is: With God all things are possible!.
Keeping all my posts short, quick, living, and to the point!
Ohio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2022, 12:02 PM   #6
awareness
Member
 
awareness's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 8,064
Default Re: Prophecy - The End Times

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Hello? Anybody home? You must have the wrong number.

Can anyone explain what Raptor is talking about?
I don't drink energy drinks. And if Monster energy drinks are the antiChrist the poor devil is nothing to be concerned about.
__________________
Cults: My brain will always be there for you. Thinking. So you don't have to.
There's a serpent in every paradise.
awareness is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:17 PM.


3.8.9