Declining Meeting and Reading Invitations

Hello Saints,

I was born and raised in the Local Church, and I am still tied to it today as a young adult. I’ve never had any overtly bad experiences in the church, but their teachings might have subtly affected me as a person. Over the years, messages have become less touching to me, as I practically hear the same thing over and over again. Meetings in general have always been rather boring to me, and I would spend most of my time doodling on the pages of my conference pamphlets. My dad says the reason why I feel this way is because I’m not active or in my spirit because I tend to stay quiet instead of speak about my enjoyment. But I never genuinely enjoyed anything from the readings, they just left me more confused and questioning the idealisms behind them. If I do ask a question, the answers were always rather vague and just reiterating what the footnotes say or what Witness Lee wrote. So how do I tell my dad and the saints who reach out to me about upcoming meetings, conferences, and reading appointments, that I just don’t want to join them anymore? I’m afraid that if I do, I will be a ”prodigal son” case that will be discussed among the leading brothers, and then I will either be isolated, or the saints will try to make even more of an effort to hook me into meetings again. Reading appointments I especially dislike, because although it consists of fewer people, I feel like they’re only spending time with me to read the word, and not because I’m actually enjoyable to hang out with.

[Paul Vusik]

Unregistered,

One of the first steps in realizing and understanding what’s really happening is being honest with yourself, which from what I read you have already stated on. It’s seems to most people that it’s an easy thing to do that, but it’s not. I personally didn’t grow up in LC or was born into it, so I really feel for the people that did, since they never had a choice to begin with.

I know that I’m probably one of the more outspoken and critical people here on this forum when it comes to all teachings related to LC, and my advice may come from that stand point. I just say what I have done even recently when I was asked to join a few of those “meetings” and even one on one discussions. I believe in order to be able to decline all those things you mentioned, and not care about any of the consequences that you will face, you have to have something to fall back on, something where you actually are enjoying and being spiritually taken care of. One of the hardest thing to do as a person, is to build your personal relationship with God, independent of any man, any woman, any group, any interpretations, or ministries. It requires some trust and faith, to be able to function by just spending time with God yourself, and spending time in his pure Word. No footnotes, no explanations, no interpretations, but just trusting the Lord to shine His light through reading and prayer. You don’t need to do any of those exercises of your mind, getting into some spirit, just asked the Lord to lead you as He promised.

So when that becomes a part of your life, and you will just enjoy that time, you will be able to compare the two experiences for yourself, then you will be able to say NO, to all of the dead exercises and waste of time meetings and gatherings to worship those man that stand in the way for people to enjoy God. Just my two cents, hopefully you can get something out of it.

[leonis88]

The first thing to realize is that in healthy parent-child relationships, parents wouldn't oblige to give their young adult children room and freedom to explore, mature, and find their place in the world. That might sound bizarre from being in an environment that is as rigid and unsympathetic as the LC. But in the real world, it is quite normal.


You are not beholden to anyone's agendas, no matter how much they may persuade you that there is no agenda or ulterior motive. You should be free to live your life as you wish. Follow your gut feeling regarding the teachings of Witness Lee. You would not be the first person to feel or think the thoughts you have now regarding LC teachings. It may well be the truth that LC foundation is baseless. Meh, no one knows. But you should be allowed the freedom to explore what is true and what is not and not be forced to believe what someone else says is true.


If you don't want to do something, just don't do it. You shouldn't need to explain anything either if you don't want to. If your friends and family are real friends and family, they would respect your choices and still treat you well no matter what. If not, then it may be a hard pill for you to accept at first, but you will at least be living a life that is honest to yourself. Be good and true to yourself and life will treat you well. Don't burden yourself with pleasing people who may not really care about you if you didn't follow their agendas.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

So how do I tell my dad and the saints who reach out to me about upcoming meetings, conferences, and reading appointments, that I just don’t want to join them anymore? I’m afraid that if I do, I will be a ”prodigal son” case that will be discussed among the leading brothers, and then I will either be isolated, or the saints will try to make even more of an effort to hook me into meetings again. Reading appointments I especially dislike, because although it consists of fewer people, I feel like they’re only spending time with me to read the word, and not because I’m actually enjoyable to hang out with.

To tell your dad/saints that you are leaving: This depends on your living situation and your relationship with your parents, which only you know. If you are independent and do not live with your parents/saints, but fear they will badger or isolate you, you can make up excuses that you are too busy. However, this is just delaying an inevitable confrontation. In my case unfortunately, I had to resort to blocking one of the members, but the rest figured it out after months of me rejecting invitations. But no matter how much time passes, when I do run into them, the first thing they do is ask me to come to the meetings, lol.

Reading appointments: I share your feelings. When I attended regularly, I cannot recall a single time I was asked to spend time together without some church life context. Since I stopped attending regularly, I was initially asked several times to just catch up, where all they do is tell me how important the church life is and that they miss seeing me at meetings. If they miss me that much, they can easily see me outside of meetings, lol. Since I am no longer a young adult, they have largely left me alone to focus their energy on recruiting/shepherding younger ones.

I hope that helped, and I wish you the best.

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Hello Saints,

I was born and raised in the Local Church, and I am still tied to it today as a young adult. I’ve never had any overtly bad experiences in the church, but their teachings might have subtly affected me as a person. Over the years, messages have become less touching to me, as I practically hear the same thing over and over again. Meetings in general have always been rather boring to me, and I would spend most of my time doodling on the pages of my conference pamphlets. My dad says the reason why I feel this way is because I’m not active or in my spirit because I tend to stay quiet instead of speak about my enjoyment. But I never genuinely enjoyed anything from the readings, they just left me more confused and questioning the idealisms behind them. If I do ask a question, the answers were always rather vague and just reiterating what the footnotes say or what Witness Lee wrote. So how do I tell my dad and the saints who reach out to me about upcoming meetings, conferences, and reading appointments, that I just don’t want to join them anymore? I’m afraid that if I do, I will be a ”prodigal son” case that will be discussed among the leading brothers, and then I will either be isolated, or the saints will try to make even more of an effort to hook me into meetings again. Reading appointments I especially dislike, because although it consists of fewer people, I feel like they’re only spending time with me to read the word, and not because I’m actually enjoyable to hang out with.

Welcome to the forum! Your story, as well as your predicament, is very understandable. Many people have "been there".

Lots of students and young adults have expressed feeling like they are simply a "project" or an assignment, while acutely feeling like the serving one is missing the actual person behind the "project". My appointments involved reading ministry and then immediately having to explain what I enjoyed from the 4 pages I just read that I was stifling a yawn while reading. I did not feel very seen.

Notice how when you try to identify problems, what happens is that YOU somehow became the problem? The boring meetings, the dry content, the confusing explanations, and the vague answers aren't the problem - somehow YOU are the problem for not speaking about your enjoyment.....even though you were literally trying to explain the very problem that it is NOT an enjoyable place to be stuck in!

I guess I would ask you what it is that you want exactly. You mentioned being afraid that you will be isolated. If you don't want to join the meetings, by default this will mean "isolation" from them since you are not with them anymore. Are you okay with this? Or are you looking to retain ongoing relationships and interactions with them outside of local church related things?

If you know you will be more isolated from them by not wanting to join meetings and are okay with it.....honestly, the more time goes by the more I am all for honesty with less regard for how it affects them. What I mean is this - we all know they won't like hearing that you don't want to join anymore, we all know they will discuss and fellowship and pray behind the scenes for you to be "recovered" or "drawn back", but......those are their issues based on their false beliefs about the superiority of "the ministry" and many other things, rather than real issues to contend seriously with. Their feelings will be genuine, but they are genuine feelings grounded in false information. So you can care for the person without being restricted by the lies.....does that make sense?

If you are miserable, say you are miserable. If you don't want to go to the meetings, say you just cannot go to the meetings anymore. If you have specific problems with things - say it. If you feel like the meetings are just the same old stuff repeated over and over again, say so. If you think Witness Lee's ministry is boring and confusing, say so. Acknowledge that it may be hard for them to hear, but you just can't pretend anymore and you just need a break and to be allowed to be left alone during the break. Believe me, I FULLY understand the feeling like you can't say what you want to say, but it really does no one any favors to pretend. It is a detriment to you to not be able to express how you feel, and it is a disservice to the saints trapped in the local church to not hear the real problems, even if they disregard those problems. They need to hear the problems so they can be accountable for them.

If you are worried about what they will say in response to something you say, bring that worry up here and I or we can help you with how to respond to their response. Just know this - your feelings, your misery, your lack of enjoyment, and your boredom mean that you are seeing things for what they are in the local church, and you can be confident in your perception. Witness Lee's ministry IS a system of error, and the ministry is so unbelievably wrong in comparison to the Bible a shocking amount of the time. Chances are if you are honest about things, you will be blamed somehow (as you already described). This is a well-worn tactic of unhealthy/aberrant groups, so just see it for what it is. A lie. It's just a lie. It's how the ministry teaches them to respond and it's how the speaking brothers speak about anyone who has problems with the local church. It's how they have been trained to "handle" problems.....by accusing the people who see the problems. A possible response might be something like, "I'm sorry you feel that way, but I have thought about this a lot and I'm confident in what I'm doing," and let their genuine feelings about the false information they believe be their responsibility and not yours.

If you don't want to take the direct route, let us know and we'll see if we can help with something a little less direct.

Trapped

[Nell]

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We have an excellent thread created by "Unregistered". We also have a post waiting to be approved by "Unregistered". Unregistered poster, please recreate your post with a temporary UserName so we can approve the post pending approval. Both are excellent, but we need to minimize the confusion of having "Unregistered" reply to "Unregistered". So now, I'm confusing myself ...

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Admin/Moderator

[gr8ful]

As a parent of young adults in the Local Churches, I've wanted to allow my children to have their own experiences. This was true when I was a faithful member in the Lord's Recovery, when I began withdrawing from the Lord's Recovery, and even now after definitively leaving the Lord's Recovery and the Local Churches.

I know this is not a universal desire (parents wanting to allow their children to have their own experiences), because I spoke to parents over the years who wanted to ensure their kids "get it" like they did. But, even when I was solidly in, I could easily see pushing children to have an experience at best doesn't work and runs the risk of backfiring.

I've left the meetings -- and it wasn't an easy decision even to back away. It's like everyone's "Spidey Sense" is working overtime whenever the level of involvement drops; "Are you OK, brother? How's your spirit, brother?" This isn't insidious in itself, but it comes from a place of fear, often, due to the oft-repeated warnings of failing to overcome, failing to reach the "out-resurrection from among the dead," etc. And anytime people sensed or learned I wanted to leave the warnings of falling into ruin would come out. So much fear.

I think your dad has two motivations: wanting to see you happy and successful (according to his understanding), and fear of outer darkness, losing the reward, missing the Lord. Sounds like he is anxious for you, someone he loves.

Perhaps try talking to him and sharing your appreciation for his concern for you. Recognize his good intent. Let your dad know you're afraid of being alienated if you don't go to meetings and conferences, but you don't have a desire to attend them only out of this fear. Also let him know you are afraid of disappointing him and losing his respect. And let him know that you'd like to step back and let the Lord draw you to Himself and to His people (i.e., "Draw me, We will run after Thee", use this idea to explain why feeling forced isn't a good motivation).

This may not work immediately, and your dad may respond with "if you're not in the meetings of the Body, how could you be drawn to the Head," but don't explain or argue. Tell him your feeling - in context of appreciating his concern. This will at least provide the chance for open dialogue. He may not realize the pressure you're under -- and almost certainly wouldn't want this to be the case.

Lastly, you are your own person and your God is available to you directly. You can follow your heart, even if it seems to be going away from some people's conception of God and God's will. Or your own. God is big enough to meet you no matter how far your journey takes you, or in what direction. Along the way, you will meet new companions, communities and the fear of rejection from The Brothers will shrink as your world becomes larger.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Hello Saints,

I was born and raised in the Local Church, and I am still tied to it today as a young adult. I’ve never had any overtly bad experiences in the church, but their teachings might have subtly affected me as a person. Over the years, messages have become less touching to me, as I practically hear the same thing over and over again. Meetings in general have always been rather boring to me, and I would spend most of my time doodling on the pages of my conference pamphlets. My dad says the reason why I feel this way is because I’m not active or in my spirit because I tend to stay quiet instead of speak about my enjoyment. But I never genuinely enjoyed anything from the readings, they just left me more confused and questioning the idealisms behind them. If I do ask a question, the answers were always rather vague and just reiterating what the footnotes say or what Witness Lee wrote. So how do I tell my dad and the saints who reach out to me about upcoming meetings, conferences, and reading appointments, that I just don’t want to join them anymore? I’m afraid that if I do, I will be a ”prodigal son” case that will be discussed among the leading brothers, and then I will either be isolated, or the saints will try to make even more of an effort to hook me into meetings again. Reading appointments I especially dislike, because although it consists of fewer people, I feel like they’re only spending time with me to read the word, and not because I’m actually enjoyable to hang out with.

[Zezima]

Originally Posted by gr8ful

Along the way, you will meet new companions, communities and the fear of rejection from The Brothers will shrink as your world becomes larger.

This. Having left and built a new community, I feel no need to try and justify myself or get approval from those in the LR. The fears I had while leaving seem so small now that my world outside of the LR has grown.

To answer your question, just tell them you don’t want to. There’s no need to have to explain yourself to anyone. When I first left I wanted to try to explain to everyone why because I knew what their perception would be. However, trying to change their perspective is a fools errand. You’re the one that answers to God on judgement day, not them. They’ll view you backsliden, one who lost the vision, poisoned, or whatever. But that’s fine, as frustrating as that is.

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Nell

ATTENTION ALL UNREGISTERED GUEST POSTERS!
You MUST fill in a Temporary UserName in the appropriate box on the Post Reply Page. If the UserName in this box is left as "Unregistered" your post will NOT appear on forum.

We have an excellent thread created by "Unregistered". We also have a post waiting to be approved by "Unregistered". Unregistered poster, please recreate your post with a temporary UserName so we can approve the post pending approval. Both are excellent, but we need to minimize the confusion of having "Unregistered" reply to "Unregistered". So now, I'm confusing myself ...

Both posts are excellent and we look forward to approving the reply.

Thanks--
Nell
Admin/Moderator

I don't know forums or backends of things, but is there a way to, essentially, make it impossible for an unregistered guest poster to post something without filling in some kind of temporary name before hitting "submit"? That way people won't need to recreate posts or have their posts hung up in no man's land because the setup allowed them to easily bypass a new rule.

Trapped

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Trapped

I don't know forums or backends of things, but is there a way to, essentially, make it impossible for an unregistered guest poster to post something without filling in some kind of temporary name before hitting "submit"? That way people won't need to recreate posts or have their posts hung up in no man's land because the setup allowed them to easily bypass a new rule.

Trapped

Not that we can find.

However, it’s not really much to ask, considering the alternative. The temporary name actually limits the time in the moderation queue, or “no man’s land”…usually not more than 24 hours.

I check the queue every day, usually in the mornings. Consider that every day we get as many as 8-10 unregistered users attempting to create and post spam/filth. I delete this stuff most mornings…trying to separate the “sheep from the goats”.

We apologize for the inconvenience, and hope you understand.

Nell