Watchman Nee, Museum Exhibit opening

[Zezima]

The Opening Ceremony of Watchman Nee Exhibition- Museum of the Bible by Hank Hanegraaff

https://youtu.be/J7cO5SkneTw

[Trapped]

In case anyone needs it written out in order to understand the disjointed twists and turns Hank's speech took between the understandable bookends of the Bible verses he quoted.....here is the middle part:


…My good friend who died recently, Andrew Yu, used to consistently remind me that a branch grew over the prison wall. A branch that inevitably circled the world. A branch that touched my own life August 4, 2003, when I met the progeny of Watchman Nee. And I learned a great lesson. That lesson is that truth matters, but life matters more. Outside the truth kept by the whole church, personal experience would be deprived of all certainty, of all objectivity, it would be a mingling of truth and falsehood, of reality and illusion. So truth really does matter. But life matters more. And the life that matters more is not a prohibition upon knowledge, it is however, the transcending of knowledge. It is the transcending of all philosophical speculation. Christian theology is in the final realm a means, it is a unity of knowledge subserving an end that transcends all knowledge. And that ultimate end is union with God, or deification. God became man, said St Athanasius, that man might become God. Or Luther put it this way – Word became flesh that flesh might become Word. That truth has been recovered in the west, indeed around the world, by the progeny of Watchman Nee. And it is a truth that absolutely revolutionized my life. I’m experiencing today life that is life to the full. And this is something that we not only experience as individuals, but as my friend Chris Wilde has so eloquently stated, it is something we share with the world. And he not only talks that talk, but walks that walk. Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud……

[UntoHim]

"A branch that touched my own life August 4, 2003, when I met the progeny of Watchman Nee"

Who is Hank referring to? Witness Lee died in 1997.

I really wish Hank would explain something - If the ministries of Watchman Nee and Witness Lee "absolutely revolutionized" your life, why did you choose one of the major branches of Poor Poor Christianity, The Greek Orthodox Church, over the Local Church/LSM of Witness Lee?
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Hanegraaf in Chrismation Ceremony
~

[GraceAlone]

Agree, UntoHim.
I also notice that he uses the familiar practice of asserting something boldly (“Truth matters. But life matters more!”) without offering any scriptural support or even defining his terms (“life”). I’d be open to giving him a fair hearing on that. But as with so many LR teachings, a strong assertion with an obedient Amen from the audience is all we’re given.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

I really wish Hank would explain something - If the ministries of Watchman Nee and Witness Lee "absolutely revolutionized" your life, why did you choose one of the major branches of Poor Poor Christianity, The Greek Orthodox Church, over the Local Church of Witness Lee?

If you think Politicians and Scientists can be bought on the cheap, imagine the going rate on wannabe Apologists.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by GraceAlone

Agree, UntoHim.
I also notice that he uses the familiar practice of asserting something boldly (“Truth matters. But life matters more!”) without offering any scriptural support or even defining his terms (“life”). I’d be open to giving him a fair hearing on that. But as with so many LR teachings, a strong assertion with an obedient Amen from the audience is all we’re given.

Let me translate this for you: “Feelings supersede the truths of Scripture.”

[Zezima]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

"A branch that touched my own life August 4, 2003, when I met the progeny of Watchman Nee"

Who is Hank referring to? Witness Lee died in 1997.

I really wish Hank would explain something - If the ministries of Watchman Nee and Witness Lee "absolutely revolutionized" your life, why did you choose one of the major branches of Poor Poor Christianity, The Greek Orthodox Church, over the Local Church/LSM of Witness Lee?
~

Hanegraaf in Chrismation Ceremony
~

Greek Orthodox is apart of the Eastern Orthodox Church. Eastern Orthodox Church has a doctrine called “Theosis” which is very similar if not identical to “Gods ‘s Economy” doctrine found in the Lord’s Recovery.

Not defending him or even really know about him, but maybe watchmen nee exposed him to this theology.

[UntoHim]

Originally Posted by Zezima

Not defending him or even really know about him, but maybe Watchmen Nee exposed him to this theology.

Actually it was Andrew Yu, Chris Wilde and some of the other Blended Bros that exposed Hanegraaff to Witness Lee's (and by extension Nee's) "man becoming god" theology. How in the world Hank then made the leap from Local Church theology over to Greek/Eastern Orthodoxy Theosis theology is very interesting indeed....

As an aside, I was very happy to see that Hank's health seems to have improved. It looked rather grim for him at one time.
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You opposers just came to this video and argued what Hank said is wrong shows you only care for your pharisaical right doctrine. The Lord Jesus Christ care only for life and that's the goal why He came to this earth. You may have truth but you miss life. No wonder many of you here are full bitterness because you can't fulfill your evil ambitions. May the Lord enlighten your eyes concerning His economy. Truth matters but life matters more.

[UntoHim]

Oh, my friend, I see you have jumped over to this thread. Welcome! So now that you're here, maybe you can answer the question at hand.

After many years of research and consideration, which included Hank Hanegraaff experiencing the "life" in the meetings and fellowship in the Local Church, he chose the Greek Orthodox Church over The Lord's Recovery. So apparently Hank chose the life in the Greek Orthodox Church over the truth in The Lord's Recovery. Or was it that Hank is a hypocrite and chose the truth in the Greek Orthodox Church over the life in the Lord's Recovery.
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[Zezima]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

You opposers just came to this video and argued what Hank said is wrong shows you only care for your pharisaical right doctrine. The Lord Jesus Christ care only for life and that's the goal why He came to this earth. You may have truth but you miss life. No wonder many of you here are full bitterness because you can't fulfill your evil ambitions. May the Lord enlighten your eyes concerning His economy. Truth matters but life matters more.

This is the response that’s many get when even questioning a minor belief or statement held by the Lord’s Recovery. It’s sad that open questioning is struck down as malicious or nefarious in intent. Seems like a great response to silence the loud contrast between the Bible and Living Stream Ministry claim’s.

Is there biblical support for the statement made by this user “Truth matters but life matters more.” ? I can’t find a verse that says that. Only thing I can find is when Jesus called himself the truth and the life (John 14:6). How can one have truth but not life if Jesus is the truth & life? Can Jesus be divided like that?

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

You opposers just came to this video and argued what Hank said is wrong shows you only care for your pharisaical right doctrine. The Lord Jesus Christ care only for life and that's the goal why He came to this earth. You may have truth but you miss life. No wonder many of you here are full bitterness because you can't fulfill your evil ambitions. May the Lord enlighten your eyes concerning His economy. Truth matters but life matters more.

Unregistered,

Welcome to the forum!

It is certainly true that the Lord Jesus Christ came to this earth that we might have life, as John 10:10 states. But surely you know that "life" is not ONLY what He cared for, like you claim. Jesus never said that and the Bible never says that. He cared much for speaking the truth, He cared much for healing the sick, He cared much for making sure the famished people following Him were fed, He called unclean women "daughter", and He cared about the oppression and heavy burdens the Pharisees put on people by their.....yes.....their wrong doctrines. This is one small reason why we might care about right doctrine ourselves too.

Additionally, like some of the comments on the video seem to have already pointed out, Jesus never told the Pharisees that they "had the truth". Yes they searched the scriptures and missed Christ, but it is because they searched WITHOUT grasping the truth that they missed Christ (or what you call "missing life"). It was not the case that they actually had the truth but still missed the Son. From all their conversations with Jesus it was pretty clear that they missed the truth too.

So, for you to admit that we do have truth should at least give you pause. Would you be willing to stick around and actually discuss? If you do, I would ask you and anyone else on this forum who participates to please check emotions and the need to satisfy the desire to "snap back" or "win" a conversation. The goal should be a desire to see eye to eye with someone. Making peace where there currently is none, rather than causing a wider chasm between those inside the Lord's Recovery and those outside.

Lastly......the very clear Biblical record is that Paul "opposed" Peter to his face when it was necessary to do so. Sometimes opposing something really is the righteous, upright, "life" thing to do.

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[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Zezima

This is the response that’s many get when even questioning a minor belief or statement held by the Lord’s Recovery. It’s sad that open questioning is struck down as malicious or nefarious in intent. Seems like a great response to silence the loud contrast between the Bible and Living Stream Ministry claim’s.

Is there biblical support for the statement made by this user “Truth matters but life matters more.” ? I can’t find a verse that says that. Only thing I can find is when Jesus called himself the truth and the life (John 14:6). How can one have truth but not life if Jesus is the truth & life? Can Jesus be divided like that?

In reading through some of the comments on the WN YT video, the main verse I've seen brought up is in John 5 where Jesus tells the Jewish leaders that they search the Scriptures ("the truth") but yet refuse to come to Christ to have life.

But......Jesus is speaking to the unbelieving Jews there, while Hank is saying this to, ostensibly, a group of believers, and also claiming it as his own experience. I mean, is Hank admitting he has himself had a pharasaical unbelieving jewish leader christian experience for decades of his own christian life until he learned this catchphrase? I doubt it, even though that's often the viewpoint LC members have of other christians.

I also read some people talking in the comments about how the relationship with Christ transcends scriptural knowledge or something like that. I'm not sure I know what that even means. Shouldn't scripture be the grounding so that we can know when our experience of christ is real versus our "feeling"?

"knowledge transcending experience of christ" sounds like......eastern mysticism to me. Sure, the bible speaks of the knowledge-surpassing love of Christ, but the average joe on street should be able to understand the difference between those two things. The verse in Ephesians 3 about that even speaks of our actually knowing that knowledge-surpassing love, so it is still within our grasp and apprehension.

And you said it exactly. Jesus is the way and the truth and the life. He never says fractions of Himself matter more than other fractions.

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[Nell]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

You opposers just came to this video and argued what Hank said is wrong shows you only care for your pharisaical right doctrine. The Lord Jesus Christ care only for life and that's the goal why He came to this earth. You may have truth but you miss life. No wonder many of you here are full bitterness because you can't fulfill your evil ambitions. May the Lord enlighten your eyes concerning His economy. Truth matters but life matters more.

“Life” is so totally subjective that you folks can (and do) define it any way you want…even to the extent that you feel free to come on a public forum of anonymous members and pass judgment on the hearts of men by name calling, etc. and…call that “life”?

Wasn’t Jesus an “opposer”?

On the other hand, Truth is absolute. Truth is unaffected by man’s perception of it. Unlike what you call “life”, truth cannot be manipulated.

You could use some truth in your perspective. Jesus came to save his people from their sins. This is why he died. This is the truth of his gospel. Without truth, you can easily fall into deception.

Your post is full of bitterness. The truth isn’t always pretty, but it is still truth.

We let you skate on your post as “unregistered”. Please register if you want to continue. Otherwise, we’ll say goodbye an wish you well.

ATTENTION ALL UNREGISTERED GUEST POSTERS! You MUST fill in a Temporary UserName in the appropriate box on the Post Reply Page. If the UserName in this box is left as "Unregistered" your post will NOT appear on forum.

Nell
Admin

[Ohio]

Can someone tell me what contribution WN has made to the Bible?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Nell

“Life” is so totally subjective that you folks can (and do) define it any way you want…even to the extent that you feel free to come on a public forum of anonymous members and pass judgment on the hearts of men by name calling, etc. and…call that “life”?

This is worth repeating.

[UntoHim]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Can someone tell me what contribution WN has made to the Bible?

Probably not much, but at least he didn't stick his nose into the all-important work of Biblical translators like Witness Lee did. I always found it so embarrassing when family and friends would ask me "and what school of higher learning did Witness Lee go to that he is listed as one of the translators of the Recovery Version New Testament?
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[Trapped]

Turns out "Truth matters, life matters more" is the title of a book Hank has recently put out........

At least a few Amazon reviewers were honest about the book.

Trapped