Prophecy - The End Times

[Zezima]

- Romans 11:17-24 discusses the church being grafted into the remnant of Israel
- Galatians 3:26-29 says that all baptized in Christ are of Abraham’s seed.
- Ephesians makes the case that the dividing wall has been broken down.
- There’s not a single verse in the Bible that teaches the temple will rebuilt a third time. Christ is the temple now, why would god expect another temple where animal sacrifices are acceptable? Seems to go against what the scripture says.

Why do you think modern day nation state Israel has to do with end times?

[HERn]

Originally Posted by Zezima

- Romans 11:17-24 discusses the church being grafted into the remnant of Israel
- Galatians 3:26-29 says that all baptized in Christ are of Abraham’s seed.
- Ephesians makes the case that the dividing wall has been broken down.
- There’s not a single verse in the Bible that teaches the temple will rebuilt a third time. Christ is the temple now, why would god expect another temple where animal sacrifices are acceptable? Seems to go against what the scripture says.

Why do you think modern day nation state Israel has to do with end times?

Well, at least for me the first church I attended after being saved was Baptist and they taught the dispensational view of the end times, pre-tribulation rapture, etc. It wasn’t until later in my Christian life that I learned that dispensational theology was first expounded by Darby of the Brethren church, and that the early church did not teach dispensational theology in which Israel becomes reinstated as a country and the Jewish temple is rebuilt.

I think this area of theology is one where followers of Christ can have opposing views and still maintain fellowship. Although I hope that there is a pre-trib rapture, I’m not betting the farm on it.

[Zezima]

Originally Posted by HERn

Well, at least for me the first church I attended after being saved was Baptist and they taught the dispensational view of the end times, pre-tribulation rapture, etc. It wasn’t until later in my Christian life that I learned that dispensational theology was first expounded by Darby of the Brethren church, and that the early church did not teach dispensational theology in which Israel becomes reinstated as a country and the Jewish temple is rebuilt.

I think this area of theology is one where followers of Christ can have opposing views and still maintain fellowship. Although I hope that there is a pre-trib rapture, I’m not betting the farm on it.

Right, but according to this thread discussing theological perspectives that produce different end times prophecy is prohibited.

[HERn]

Originally Posted by Zezima

Right, but according to this thread discussing theological perspectives that produce different end times prophecy is prohibited.

Thanks, I did not know that.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by HERn

Thanks, I did not know that.

Thanks HERn. We need to stay on topic on this one. I appreciate your understanding.

Nell

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Zezima

- Romans 11:17-24 discusses the church being grafted into the remnant of Israel
- Galatians 3:26-29 says that all baptized in Christ are of Abraham’s seed.
- Ephesians makes the case that the dividing wall has been broken down.
- There’s not a single verse in the Bible that teaches the temple will rebuilt a third time. Christ is the temple now, why would god expect another temple where animal sacrifices are acceptable? Seems to go against what the scripture says.

Why do you think modern day nation state Israel has to do with end times?

Follow this thread please. You should get some answers.

Nell
Admin

[Paul Vusik]

Originally Posted by Nell

Follow this thread please. You should get some answers.

Nell
Admin

Nell,

Based on the discussion here, is there a thread that actually exists here or can be stated discussing the non-dispensational views on this forum? Darby/Scofield futurism doctrines, or those are off limits?

Thanks

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Paul Vusik

Nell,

Based on the discussion here, is there a thread that actually exists here or can be stated discussing the non-dispensational views on this forum? Darby/Scofield futurism doctrines, or those are off limits?

Thanks

This topic is as stated…Prophecy - The End Times…based on the scripture. “alternative views” are off topic on this thread, and this forum.

PM UntoHim and I if you have questions.

Nell
Admin

[Paul Vusik]

Originally Posted by Nell

This topic is as stated…Prophecy - The End Times…based on the scripture. “alternative views” are off topic on this thread, and this forum.

PM UntoHim and I if you have questions.

Nell
Admin

Thanks for the reply, I had the feeling of that so good to know for future.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Paul Vusik

Thanks for the reply, I had the feeling of that so good to know for future.

Thanks for asking!

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Zezima

- Romans 11:17-24 discusses the church being grafted into the remnant of Israel
- Galatians 3:26-29 says that all baptized in Christ are of Abraham’s seed.
- Ephesians makes the case that the dividing wall has been broken down.
- There’s not a single verse in the Bible that teaches the temple will rebuilt a third time. Christ is the temple now, why would god expect another temple where animal sacrifices are acceptable? Seems to go against what the scripture says.

Why do you think modern day nation state Israel has to do with end times?

Being Israel and being Jewish in the Bible are far more complicated than your post implies. The same with the church and the rapture.

Yes, all those baptized into Christ are Abraham’s seed, but Abraham’s seed includes many who are not baptized into Christ.

Yes, the dividing wall has been broken down for Jewish and Gentile believers in Christ.

Yes, Jesus is the Tabernacle of God, and believers are the Temple of the Holy Spirit.

Did you read my post? The Bible does not say the Temple will be rebuilt in Jerusalem the 3rd time, but Daniel, Jesus, and Paul point to the Temple being desecrated at the end of times. This cannot happen unless it is rebuilt.

Daniel 9 has prophesied that Israel will have one more week of 7 years, which have not yet occurred. Israel has their nation and their holy city, but they do not yet have Mt. Zion or their Temple.

[Nell]

I will make of thee a great nation
In 1917, the Balfour Declaration transferred rule of the middle-eastern region known as Palestine to the British Empire as a temporary national home for Jewish people.

In 1948, the Balfour Declaration was scheduled to expire and Great Britain would no longer rule Palestine. The question over what to do with the tumultuous country was turned over to the United Nations who would eventually decide to create the new country of Israel, specifically as a promised homeland for Jewish people.

The new country was to be located across the various holy locations in which many events of the Old Testament occurred and, according to the Bible, was promised to the Jewish people by God.
…on authority of the Abrahamic Covenant in Genesis 12:1-3

*****************

David Ben-Gurion, flanked by the members of his provisional government, reads the Declaration of Independence in the Tel Aviv Museum Hall on May 14, 1948 (Israel Government Press Office).

The Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel
“The Land of Israel was the birthplace of the Jewish people. Here their spiritual, religious and political identity was shaped. Here they first attained to statehood, created cultural values of national and universal significance and gave to the world the eternal Book of Books.

After being forcibly exiled from their land, the people kept faith with it throughout their dispersion and never ceased to pray and hope for their return to it and for the restoration in it of their political freedom.

Impelled by this historic and traditional attachment, Jews strove in every successive generation to re-establish themselves in their ancient homeland. In recent decades they returned in their masses. Pioneers, defiant returnees, and defenders, they made deserts bloom, revived the Hebrew language, built villages and towns, and created a thriving community controlling its own economy and culture, loving peace but knowing how to defend itself, bringing the blessings of progress to all the country’s inhabitants, and aspiring towards independent nationhood.”
…

**************

May 14, 1948 - US President officially recognizes Israel
U.S. President Harry Truman was the first world leader to officially recognize Israel as a legitimate Jewish state, only eleven minutes after its creation.

**********************

May 14, 2018 - US President Moves Embassy to Jerusalem

Nell

[Nell]

A True Story

In the nineteenth century, revival swept through England. One of the fruits of that revival was a love for the Jewish people and the nation of Israel. Exemplifying that love was the prayer one English boy had been taught by his mother to include in his devotions:

O Lord, we would not forget Thine ancient people, Israel; hasten the day
when Israel shall again be Thy people and shall be restored to Thy favor
and to their land.

It so happened that in the early twentieth century the British Empire was drawn into a war that would involve the Ottoman Turkish Empire, the power that, at the time, ruled over the land of Israel. During the war the Ottoman Empire crumbled, and British forces led by General Edmund Allenby entered the Holy Land. The British would take the city of Jerusalem without a fight.

Allenby was the boy who had prayed every night for God to restore the Jewish people to their ancient homeland. Now it was he who, as a British general, was the key instrument in bringing it about. For the first time in two thousand years the land was in the hands of a power sympathetic to the Jewish people. --Jonathan Cahn

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Nell

A True Story

In the nineteenth century, revival swept through England. One of the fruits of that revival was a love for the Jewish people and the nation of Israel. Exemplifying that love was the prayer one English boy had been taught by his mother to include in his devotions:

O Lord, we would not forget Thine ancient people, Israel; hasten the day
when Israel shall again be Thy people and shall be restored to Thy favor
and to their land.

It so happened that in the early twentieth century the British Empire was drawn into a war that would involve the Ottoman Turkish Empire, the power that, at the time, ruled over the land of Israel. During the war the Ottoman Empire crumbled, and British forces led by General Edmund Allenby entered the Holy Land. The British would take the city of Jerusalem without a fight.

Allenby was the boy who had prayed every night for God to restore the Jewish people to their ancient homeland. Now it was he who, as a British general, was the key instrument in bringing it about. For the first time in two thousand years the land was in the hands of a power sympathetic to the Jewish people. --Jonathan Cahn

Great story, Nell.

Regarding Israel, as someone once said, "there are no such things as coincidences, for those of us who believe God."

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Great story, Nell.

Regarding Israel, as someone once said, "there are no such things as coincidences, for those of us who believe God."

Yep. I love this story. And since you've twisted my arm, here's another one for you. :-)

1967: The Six-Day War
In the spring of 1967 the Egyptian government, acting on false reports of an Israeli attack provided by the Soviet Union, ordered a full mobilization of the Egyptian military in preparation for war with Israel. … On June 5 Israel launched Operation Focus, a series of surprise airstrikes on Egyptian and Arab air force bases. It was the beginning of the Six-Day War.

In Israel’s war of independence Jordanian forces had seized the ancient city of Jerusalem…. On June 7 Israeli troops approached the ancient city of Jerusalem held by Jordanian troops. General Mordechai Gur announced to his commanders:

"We’re sitting right now on the ridge and we’re seeing the Old City. Shortly we’re going to go into the Old City of Jerusalem, that all generations have dreamed about. . . . "

"Jerusalem Returned
The Israeli paratroopers entered the Lion’s Gate and made their way through the cobblestone streets of the ancient city. They advanced toward the Temple Mount and the Western Wall. It was the first time that Jewish soldiers were seen in biblical Jerusalem since ancient times when the Romans destroyed it.

They reach the Western Wall, the holiest site of Judaism. There, looking up at the massive stones above them, the soldiers stood in awe, many of them in tears. Spontaneously they began reciting the ancient Hebrew prayer of the Shehechianu:

Baruch Atah Adonai, Elohenu Melech Ha Olam Shehechianu, V’Kiemanu, V’Higianu Lazman Hazeh.
(Blessed are You, Lord our God, King of the Universe, who has sustained us, who preserved our lives, and who has enabled us to reach this day.)

They were then joined by Rabbi Shlomo Goren, who sounded the shofar at the Western Wall to proclaim its liberation. Goren spoke to the soldiers gathered at the wall:

“The vision of all generations is being realized before our eyes: The city of God, the site of the Temple, the Temple Mount and the Western Wall, the symbol of the nation’s redemption, have been redeemed. … “

The moment is epic. For the first time in two thousand years, for the first time since the calamity of AD 70, Jerusalem is in Jewish hands; the Holy City is restored to the Jewish people and the Jewish people to the Holy City. The moment is prophetic, a keystone in biblical end-time prophecy. – Jonathan Cahn

Awesome!
Nell

[OBW]

And we have finally come to it. Jonathan Cahn.

The 1967 war was 55 years ago. Don't the prophetic numbers start to run out long before that?

This man is one of the biggest distractions to Christians, especially in the US where we are so enamored with dispensational theology and have often presumed to lay claim to the Old Testament promises to Israel.

Could say more, but won't.

[Zezima]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Being Israel and being Jewish in the Bible are far more complicated than your post implies. The same with the church and the rapture.

Any discussion apart from the dispensationalist framework has been rejected from this thread, I’d like to reply further but alternative hermeneutical theology is not allowed. Reminds me of open dialogue in the LR.. what has this forum become?

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Zezima

Any discussion apart from the dispensationalist framework has been rejected from this thread, I’d like to reply further but alternative hermeneutical theology is not allowed. Reminds me of open dialogue in the LR.. what has this forum become?

Glad you asked. This forum has become true to its mission, rules and instructions from the Moderators. As believers, and adults, we should all be able to respect and understand that we don't always get our way.

We invite the participation of members and guests. In return we ask that you simply respect your host.

You are welcome to respectfully follow the thread as you have been invited to do. You might learn something. Further discussion of the direction of this thread should be addressed to UntoHim and I through the PM system.

Thanks--

Nell

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Zezima

Any discussion apart from the dispensationalist framework has been rejected from this thread, I’d like to reply further but alternative hermeneutical theology is not allowed. Reminds me of open dialogue in the LR.. what has this forum become?

I don't know anything about your "dispensationalist framework" or other "alternative hermeneutical theology," rather I am just using the Bible like you tried to do in post #26.