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Old 07-05-2020, 05:57 PM   #11
awareness
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Default Re: Boxjobox on modalism

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Originally Posted by Boxjobox View Post
Here is my dilemma, and where I would differ from your thinking that John is telling us Jesus is God, and is consistent through his writings. John writes also 17.3 and 20.17, which would no lead me to believe he is bringing us to see Jesus as God at all. If we read 2 John 3, it doesn’t follow, or Rev 1. 1,2 and 6, it doesn’t follow what I would consider a consistency, unless, as many seem to do, we are supposed to find secret, hidden meanings and read behind and underneath what is written.
I would say that logos should be understood as the thought, the idea, which was with God, and was God. We seem to have no clue as to why John put in “was God” for a description of logos- who was John writing to, what was there philosophy/theology, what would have been their need to hear such a thing? Was it because they viewed the cosmos as being something apart from God, that God randomly did things or had no interest or connection to hHis creation. We don’t know. So I’m fine with John writing what he wrote, and to me he is saying that God had an idea that wasn’t flighty or random, but that God created all things according to this idea, this purpose. And reading through the whole of scripture, it seems to me that I could sum up that idea as man being the center of his affection and fellowship, which would come about through the redemptive work of the Christ, the anointed one, Son of God. And that through Christ Jesus we would be His many sons. So creation was entirely through this idea, and one day, according to His plan, that idea came to full fruition with the coming of, the birth of Jesus the Christ. I’m just writing this off the top of my head, considering the whole of the scripture. And I’m sure it will not pass the muster of the critics, but considering the whole of scripture, I do not think that John was trying to bring in a new revelation that everyone needs to see that Jesus is God and that in seeing that Jesus is God, we must assume that God is therefore triune, and must now worship a triune God. Sorry, but I put too much rationality in the scripture, and don’t think that such a “ revelation” is what is being said at all.
If this was really what John was conveying- that We need to see that Jesus is God, then why would Paul tell us that there is but one God, the Father, and we are to stick with the plan by acknowledging one God and Father.. I can’t follow what Paul writes, if I am supposed to follow what John writes, unless I’m supposed to accept some 4th century labyrinth- ah ah I guess I’m supposed to say orthodoxy?



No, John is not consistent with a Jesus is God program, and I think if one reads through John, one would see that John is not saying that at all.

Luke opened his gospel stating 1Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to draw up a narrative concerning those matters which have been fulfilled among us, 2even as they delivered them unto us, who from the beginning wer eyewitnesses and ministers of the word, 3it seemed good to me also, having traced the course of all things accurately from the first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus; 4that thou mightest know the certainty concerning the things wherein thou wast instructed.

Am I to assume that Luke did poor investigative work, or that he and the early believers did not have the John revelation of Jesus being God? This would make the scripture laughable and extremely inconsistent. As I stated before, Luke’s presentation of Acts, a furtherance of his gospel writing, contains NO gospel preached where Jesus is set up as God!

The whole trithestic (is that a word?) thing does not lead us to an understanding of the scriptures, but sends us into division, sects, heresy, and, man’s orthodoxy. We all saw this with WL, a case study in finding all sorts of new “light”.
What an oxymoron that, the Jesus is God bunch would have us believe that God killed God on the cross ... even tho the record has Jesus saying "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me."
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