Does Proverbs 26:4 contradict verse 5?

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Originally Posted by Ohio

The "obvious question" is not at all obvious to me.

Both your presumption and your conclusion are flawed. LSM has their issues, but "folly," as Solomon used the word, is not even on the radar.

1:1 The proverbs of Solomon are given for us to know wisdom (and the absence of wisdom – folly).

1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
1:8 My son, hear the instruction of thy father, and forsake not the law of thy mother:

WL treated WN as his spiritual father. This site has gone through WN’s teachings to show where WL contradicted, and forsoke that instruction. That would be, by definition, folly.

3:29 Devise not evil against thy neighbour, seeing he dwelleth securely by thee.
3:30 Strive not with a man without cause, if he have done thee no harm

There is very good evidence that the so called “sisters rebellion” was devised by WL as a way of turning the attention away from the misdeeds of himself and his children. This by definition is folly.

6:16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
6:17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
6:18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
6:19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

By definition the “arrogance of WL” is folly. The lies and fraud of WL and his sons is folly. The damaging of names and reputations by WL was folly. Devising the “sister’s rebellion” was folly. Sowing discord among brethren was folly.

6:32 But whoso committeth adultery with a woman lacketh understanding: he that doeth it destroyeth his own soul.
6:33 A wound and dishonour shall he get; and his reproach shall not be wiped away.
6:34 For jealousy is the rage of a man: therefore he will not spare in the day of vengeance.

An apt description of PL whose behavior was, by definition, folly.

8:13 The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.

WL’s pride by definition is folly. His arrogancy is folly. His evil way is folly. His forward mouth was folly. On this site we have rebuked all of these things. (Froward – easily irritated by unimportant things, unyielding, disobedient, I would use the term “litigious” to describe forward). You have made much of these character traits of WL on this site, hence you could lump these posts under the category “WL’s forward mouth”.

11:7 When a wicked man dieth, his expectation shall perish: and the hope of unjust men perisheth.

Compare this verse to the teaching of MOTA. How did WL’s death impact this teaching, how did it affect the hope of the BB’s and LSM?

11:9 An hypocrite with his mouth destroyeth his neighbour:

How many times on this site have we discussed how many were destroyed by WL, LSM and the LRC? You have talked about TC doing this.

11:18 The wicked worketh a deceitful work

Let’s be honest, the entire thread “Good Lee/Bad Lee” is portraying WL’s ministry as a deceitful work.

11:20 They that are of a froward heart are abomination to the LORD:

How much have we talked about WL’s propensity to sue other Christians despite the clear NT prohibition?

11:21 Though hand join in hand, the wicked shall not be unpunished:

Compare this verse with the emphasis on “being one with the ministry”. Do you think their “joining hands” to be “one with the ministry” will save them from being punished?

11:28 He that trusteth in his riches shall fall:

Compare this verse with WL, LSM and the BBs talking about what a “rich ministry” they have.

12:1b he that hateth reproof is brutish.

Remember WL’s response when JI went to him about PL?

12:5b the counsels of the wicked are deceit.

Remember the counsel RG and BP gave JI concerning the PL affair? How about the book that was written as fellowship and counsel but was really just a whitewash. This also has been a major topic on this site and it is referring to folly.

12:11b but he that followeth vain persons is void of understanding.

How many have wondered on this site how PL could be running LSM and how those associated with LSM would follow him.

12:18 There is that speaketh like the piercings of a sword: but the tongue of the wise is health.

Doesn’t this word apply to posts you have made concerning TC?

13:1b a scorner heareth not rebuke.

Did WL ever allow himself to hear rebuke?

13:5 A righteous man hateth lying: but a wicked man is loathsome, and cometh to shame.

Didn’t the righteous elders in Anaheim resign because they hated lying, isn’t PL a loathsome man, how would you describe the elders that wrote and signed the letter apologizing to PL? This is all a major topic on this site, it is a discussion of folly and wisdom.

13:10 Only by pride cometh contention:

What about the excommunication of TC? “Sister’s rebellion”, “Max’s rebellion”, etc. These are all topics covered here and at the root it is a discussion of WL’s pride.

13:13 Whoso despiseth the word shall be destroyed:

If all this is true, then how can this verse not apply to WL, LSM, BBs, etc?

13:19b it is abomination to fools to depart from evil.

Now BP and RK have made it clear that it is an abomination in their mind to depart from this ministry. This has been discussed on this site. So then, does this verse call them fools?

14:3 In the mouth of the foolish is a rod of pride:

Have we applied this verse to WL and TC? So then haven’t we discussed their folly?

14:9 Fools make a mock at sin:

Didn’t WL once say that the Daystar event was when the saints lost their virginity? Hasn’t this been discussed on this site?

14:17 He that is soon angry dealeth foolishly: and a man of wicked devices is hated.

Doesn’t this verse refer to the litigious nature of the LRC? Isn’t this a topic of this site?

14:18 The simple inherit folly:

Haven’t we discussed how the saints in the LRC have been stuck with the bill for this folly, and how in some cases their meeting halls have been taken from them?

14:21 He that despiseth his neighbour sinneth: but he that hath mercy on the poor, happy is he.

Hasn’t this site discussed how the LRC has forgotten the simple things like mercy, and taking care of the poor?

16:5 Every one that is proud in heart is an abomination to the LORD: though hand join in hand, he shall not be unpunished.

Doesn’t this describe the pride of the LRC in their “ground of oneness teaching” and also the the entire teaching of “being one with the ministry”.

16:6 By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the LORD men depart from evil.

Isn’t this a common theme among the testimonies of those that have left the LRC?

16:22b but the instruction of fools is folly.

Doesn’t this verse describe some recent posts comparing WL’s ministry to that of other Christian teachers?


17:15 He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD.

Surely this verse applies directly to the discussion on this site concerning Daystar, TL and PL.


19:5 A false witness shall not be unpunished, and he that speaketh lies shall not escape.

Do you think that the Lord Jesus might be using this site to make sure that this verse is fulfilled?

19:27 Cease, my son, to hear the instruction that causeth to err from the words of knowledge.

Isn’t this the thesis of some, that the ministry of WL causes you to err from the words of knowledge? Wasn’t that the whole issue over the interpretation of “becoming one flesh” that the deemphasis of relationship caused the saints to err?