LC Doctrine and Practice through the Lens of God's Love and Hatred for Sin

bearbear · 01-24-2023, 08:08 AM

After discussions with former LC members on the facebook group, it occurred to me that God’s revelation of himself through the word becomes clearer when we understand that God really, really, *really* loves us but at the same time he also really, really *really* hates sin and the ultimate proof of these attributes is displayed through the cross. God treats sin so seriously that he demands a perfect sacrifice that only he could give and he demonstrated his tremendous love for us by not sparing his own Son to gruesomely die on our behalf so that we who were once his enemies could become part of his family (Rom 5:10).

The root of sin is selfishness (Phil 2:3-4, Psa 119:36) and corrupts human love which results in finite conditional love with ulterior motives. In contrast, God’s love is pure and unconditional and infinite, hence God’s hatred for the selfishness of sin could even be born out of love– to the extent that he is at peace with banishing souls away from his presence in hell for eternity since their selfish nature would corrupt heaven and turn it into hell for those that he loves just like in the days of Noah before he judged the earth with a flood.

From attending a spectrum of evangelical churches after leaving the LC twelve years ago my experience has been that regardless of doctrinal stances (such as charismatic, non-charismatic, free grace, calvinist, arminian, etc.) a healthy church is one that emphasizes God’s tremendous love for us while at the same time recognizing the seriousness of sin and God’s hatred of it. Churches that emphasize one end of the spectrum without the other often run into problems, but perhaps the worst scenario is to not recognize either end and I think the LCs could actually fall into this bucket in both doctrine and practice.

Through losing the focus on God’s love and hatred for sin, a vacuum is formed in the LCs which is filled by a focus to build Witness Lee’s empire of local churches and raising up disciples to follow the teachings embodied by LSM. God’s love is corrupted in practice because from the testimony and experience of many here, the love demonstrated in the LC is conditioned based on how “absolute” one is for the ministry. Once someone starts opposing Witness Lee’s ministry they turn into an enemy who is cast off as leprous and poison which is contrary to Jesus’ teaching of praying and loving our enemies (Matt 5:43-48).

This lack of focus and worst of both worlds scenario is also demonstrated through the thousand year discipline in outer darkness doctrine for the disobedient believer. It not only communicates that God’s love and acceptance of us into his kingdom is conditioned on 1000 years of torment if we don’t live up to his standard but treats as eternally saved, a self-professed carnal believer who is a slave to sin and lives in hatred and hurt towards other believers. The result of this is when outrageous sins like sexual abuse occurs, the leaders give in to temptation to “cover” the sin since there are no eternal consequences as everyone in the congregation who professes belief in Jesus is treated as “wheat” and eternally saved, and we should just “move on” to build up Witness Lee’s empire.

However in healthy churches and even including ones which adhere to Free Grace theology but recognize there are true and false believers and tares and wheat (Matt 13:24-43), unrepentant sin is treated with extreme concern due to its eternal implications since it is either evidence that the person is unsaved (OSAS perspective) or in danger of falling away from grace (non-OSAS perspective). Hence scripture teaches us that any person promoting and practicing sin will be asked to either repent or face expulsion from the congregation (1 Cor 5:11).

The Apostle John recognized this and drew from Jesus’ parables of the wheat and tares to teach that self professed believers who are enslaved to sin and hate others are not real believers.

1 John 2:4
Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him,

1 John 3:8
Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.

1 John 3:15
Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

On the other end of the spectrum the thousand year discipline doctrine is used to sow fear onto true believers, imposing the idea that if they don’t do enough to advance Witness Lee’s ministry through “fruit bearing” they will be tortured for a thousand years. It subconsciously dulls God’s love by making it conditioned on our “works”. But God loves us unconditionally and will grant us our desires if we choose to reject him or grant us entrance to join his family and kingdom forever when we repent and put our faith and trust in Jesus and become born again with his life. It’s this unconditional love that makes us feel safe, frees us from fear (1 John 4:18) and enables us to pour love into others. Yes it’s true, God really really *really* loves us and outside of violating our free will God will do anything to help us repent and trust in Him so we can come into his family and kingdom forever and ever (Luke 13:34).

GraceAlone · 01-25-2023, 01:14 PM

Great summary. Thanks for taking the time to articulate the spectrum and its dangers, including the specific ways this plays out in LC teaching and practice. The 1000-year-kingdom threat is an apt example.

By the way, on that note I was reading Matthew 25 this morning, where Jesus talks about how when he returns in his glory, he will separate the sheep from the goats and reward people who fed the hungry, visited the sick, gave glasses of water, all in his name. Knowing how these kinds of good works are not promoted or even sometimes disparaged in the LC, I had a look at my old recovery version footnotes to see how they treated this passage. So interesting to see how they take this hyper dispensational spin on the passage so that it doesn’t even apply to believers! Their take on it really requires reading complex meaning into the text rather than taking the most straightforward interpretation. And so sad that many are missing out on the joy of fruitful living in service to others (outside LC boundaries) in this age because they think that it just doesn’t apply to them.

Ohio · 01-25-2023, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GraceAlone

By the way, on that note I was reading Matthew 25 this morning, where Jesus talks about how when he returns in his glory, he will separate the sheep from the goats and reward people who fed the hungry, visited the sick, gave glasses of water, all in his name. Knowing how these kinds of good works are not promoted or even sometimes disparaged in the LC, I had a look at my old recovery version footnotes to see how they treated this passage. So interesting to see how they take this hyper dispensational spin on the passage so that it doesn’t even apply to believers! Their take on it really requires reading complex meaning into the text rather than taking the most straightforward interpretation. And so sad that many are missing out on the joy of fruitful living in service to others (outside LC boundaries) in this age because they think that it just doesn’t apply to them.

GraceAlone I agree with you that LSM shamefully downplays good works:

Verses like Titus 2.11-15 clearly shows Apostle Paul's exhortation that God has wonderfully saved us to be "zealous of good works" while we await His return
WL greatly erred when he called "good works" to be the same as "dead works." Good works serve God and people, while "dead works" (eg circumcision) vainly attempt to apply religious traditions to redeem ourselves without the blood of Jesus.
WL considered only volunteering at LSM to be "good works," and the Blendeds even excommunicated the Midwest LC's partly over this matter, condemning us for visiting the elderly, helping people, etc.

Concerning the Matthew 25 judgment of sheep and goats:

Matt 24.4 thru 26.1 is a long section where Jesus answered the specific questions His disciples asked in Matt 24.3, which were prompted by Jesus' prophetic words about the destruction of the Temple in Matt 24.1-2
This section of scripture occurred during Jesus' last week before He was crucified, speaking of the time before His 2nd coming and the end of this age
I understand your revulsion to "hyper-dispensationalism," but this section is unique since it speaks, not of the church in general, but specifically of the end of the age, with the final judgments, the abomination of desolation in the rebuilt Temple (ref. 2 Thess 2.4), etc.
Besides myself, many Bible teachers consider all these events will occur during the final week of 7 years prophesied in Daniel chap 9

Raptor · 01-25-2023, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GraceAlone

By the way, on that note I was reading Matthew 25 this morning, ...

Well for sure if Jesus asks us to feed the hungry, visit the sick, ....give to the needy, visit prisoners, etc. If we do those things according to the will of the Father, He will reward.

But the sheep and goats are Nations: this passage refers to when Christ comes back and judges the remaining nations on the earth.

31 When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, He will sit on His glorious throne. 32All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate the people one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.

GraceAlone · 01-26-2023, 07:21 AM

Yes, I understand the teaching about the nations. That is one interpretation of who Jesus is referring to, it's what's in the RcV, and it may be the correct one. I don't see it personally in my reading of the text, including its context, and I don't think it's the majority view among Christian teachers about this passage, but I could be wrong.

My point was not to start a debate about dispensationalism, who the nations are, when Jesus will address them, etc. My point, and I may have made it clumsily, was to corroborate Bearbear's observation about how LC teachings can unnecessarily complicate and obscure Jesus' straightforward teaching about the Christian life being marked by love of God and love of neighbor. The simplest reading of Matthew 25 seems to suggest that Jesus is fleshing out what it would look like to live out these two great commandments as evidence of being a true believer: small acts of ordinary faithful service to the "least of these." Even if you don't think the "sheep and goats" apply to believers at all, it feels rather risky to foist the accountability for this kind of living onto some future and "other" group of people. The fruit of it includes not only disparagement of so-called "good works" but also missing out on an aspect of Christian living that, in my experience and that of others, leads to real joy.

Recovering · 01-26-2023, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GraceAlone

… LC teachings can unnecessarily complicate and obscure Jesus' straightforward teaching about the Christian life being marked by love of God and love of neighbor.

Well said! Almost two years out, and I find myself regularly re-reading familiar passages to try to get the plain meaning of them. There are well-worn ruts of reasoning in my brain that leap immediately to the narratives of God’s Economy™, and it takes effort to re-examine them. Sometimes I find they’re right (e.g. the story of the gospel begins with man in the image of God), and I can affirm them, with some re-working. Sometimes they’re wrong, and I’m sure I don’t need to provide examples to this forum. Too often, though, lines of Recovery™ theology led to us sitting on the couch, curled up with a Life Study and/or cooking food for college students before curling them up on the couch with a Life Study. Anything uncomfortable like caring for the homeless (who are not “good material”) is seen as a distraction. This flies in the face of the plain reading of a passage like Matthew 25.

Raptor · 01-26-2023, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GraceAlone

Jesus' straightforward teaching about the Christian life being marked by love of God and love of neighbor.

I suggest you also go to other chapters other than Matthew 25 for that. Matthew 5-7 is full of specific and clear admonishments, guidance, encouragements and commands to do good works and love and honor God: to let your light shine before men, to glorify God and love your neighbor through your living and actions.

Trapped · 01-26-2023, 11:59 AM

GraceAlone, I understand what you are saying. Regardless of the specific interpretation of that passage or whoever it applies to, what is plainly stated and not subject to interpretation is the emphasis on and importance of so many of the good works that the local church disparages.

bearbear, I came to a similar conclusion recently about the "love and sin" thing. A church that is all about judgment and condemnation and how sinful we are only breeds anxiety and harassment upon its members. A church that is all about love and acceptance but avoids the seriousness of sin and our personal responsibility (not just speaking out about oppression or abuse in general society, but how seriously God takes sin and each individual members' conduct) preaches a thoroughly incomplete gospel.

In Mark 1, John the Baptist preached "a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins"! It's both sides - the repentance is our acknowledgement of our sin before a holy God, and the forgiveness shows the far-reaching depths of His love! The local church preaches a skewed version both of God and His love as well as of sin....and it shows!

Trapped

Ohio · 01-27-2023, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Recovering

Well said! Almost two years out, and I find myself regularly re-reading familiar passages to try to get the plain meaning of them. There are well-worn ruts of reasoning in my brain that leap immediately to the narratives of God’s Economy™, and it takes effort to re-examine them. Sometimes I find they’re right (e.g. the story of the gospel begins with man in the image of God), and I can affirm them, with some re-working. Sometimes they’re wrong, and I’m sure I don’t need to provide examples to this forum. Too often, though, lines of Recovery™ theology led to us sitting on the couch, curled up with a Life Study and/or cooking food for college students before curling them up on the couch with a Life Study. Anything uncomfortable like caring for the homeless (who are not “good material”) is seen as a distraction. This flies in the face of the plain reading of a passage like Matthew 25.

I love this Recovering, rereading scripture, using only the plain words of the Bible, and comparing what I had learned in the Recovery. In this way, teachings I learned there are both confirmed as healthy or discarded as leaven.

01-27-2023, 08:22 AM

I think that Bible gives us plenty of ways to figure out and know the truth, in the simplest and child like ways. In 1 John 2, says, “If ye know that He is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.” For those of us who were at one time snared by this group, can make clear choices if we go back to plain, simple reading of the Word.
When you taught that good and evil doesn’t matter, right and wrong is of death,
- Why you people are expecting these men to acknowledge anything or anyone who exposed their unrighteousness and abuses?

- Why do people bang their heads trying to constantly expect changes in the care and love category that doesn’t exist there?

- Why so many people think that something will change, something will happen to these people that all of a sudden they will leave Leeism and go back to follow Jesus Christ?

I’m not denying or even questioning the statements about all of the unrighteousness that had and still happening in the TLR, I just caution people to stop expecting any changes or waiting for dialogue or help. You be the helper, you be the one who listens, you be the one to wrap a hurt soul! If for every one post that you write, you reach out and offer help to someone who is hurt, devastated family or an individual, the change will come! Pray for the afflicted, cry with those that are hurt, love the unlovable! Don’t waste your energy on people who don’t care, won’t care, and even will call you out. God is love, that’s His expression! Unfortunately Leeism degraded that expression and made a mockery of it!

UntoHim · 01-27-2023, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered

- Why you people are expecting these men to acknowledge anything or anyone who exposed their unrighteousness and abuses?

I may have missed it, but I don't see where anyone has stated what we expect these men to acknowledge. The Lord Jesus surely didn't expect much from the Pharisees he encountered. But then he ran into a fellow named Nicodemus. Glad he did, cause this is where Nicodemus found out that he must be born again, and we found out that God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten Son....

Quote:

- Why so many people think that something will change, something will happen to these people that all of a sudden they will leave Leeism and go back to follow Jesus Christ?

Some already have. Some will in the future. Maybe some will find our forum and begin the journey today.

Quote:

I just caution people to stop expecting any changes or waiting for dialogue or help.

Thanks for the caution, but I'm afraid it's too late. Many of us have already been expecting and waiting and praying and speaking for the better part of 20 years. I believe there are lots of Lazarus' out there, just waiting to be called out of their temporary slumber. I was such a one. I know of many others. With God all things are possible.

Quote:

Pray for the afflicted, cry with those that are hurt, love the unlovable!

Why can't we do all this while at the same time providing a venue for people to read about all the things you seem so concerned about?

Please consider registering and join us in speaking the truth in love. The more the merrier!
-

Nell · 01-27-2023, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered

…
- Why you people are expecting these men to acknowledge anything or anyone who exposed their unrighteousness and abuses?

- Why do people bang their heads trying to constantly expect changes in the care and love category that doesn’t exist there?

- Why so many people think that something will change, something will happen to these people that all of a sudden they will leave Leeism and go back to follow Jesus Christ?

I’m not denying or even questioning the statements about all of the unrighteousness that had and still happening in the TLR, I just caution people to stop expecting any changes or waiting for dialogue or help. You be the helper, you be the one who listens, you be the one to wrap a hurt soul! If for every one post that you write, you reach out and offer help to someone who is hurt, devastated family or an individual, the change will come! Pray for the afflicted, cry with those that are hurt, love the unlovable! Don’t waste your energy on people who don’t care, won’t care, and even will call you out. God is love, that’s His expression! Unfortunately Leeism degraded that expression and made a mockery of it!

I’d like to add to what UntoHim said.
We are under no illusions about what we are doing here. There are many ways to help others. You are free to pursue your path, as are we.

Sometimes, often, we ask questions on this forum simply because the question/s need to be asked. We confront these men with their sinful behavior with no expectations whatsoever. That is, no expectation of change, or, no expectation of our questions being answered. However, when we ask our questions and receive no answer…that IS, in fact, an answer. Silence is their answer and is often very loud.

We speak and ask questions in order to allow the Lord an opportunity to convict the hearts of men. We speak and ask questions in support of the wounded who have been silenced and are in fear of speaking out themselves. We have the testimonies of a few, but how many more are out there that we don’t know about? We speak and ask questions to let those who are hurting know they are not alone.

My personal reason is to be obedient to what God puts it on my heart to do.

You are welcome to join us.

Nell

01-24-2023, 08:08 AM	#1
bearbear Member Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 734	LC Doctrine and Practice through the Lens of God's Love and Hatred for Sin After discussions with former LC members on the facebook group, it occurred to me that God’s revelation of himself through the word becomes clearer when we understand that God really, really, really loves us but at the same time he also really, really really hates sin and the ultimate proof of these attributes is displayed through the cross. God treats sin so seriously that he demands a perfect sacrifice that only he could give and he demonstrated his tremendous love for us by not sparing his own Son to gruesomely die on our behalf so that we who were once his enemies could become part of his family (Rom 5:10). The root of sin is selfishness (Phil 2:3-4, Psa 119:36) and corrupts human love which results in finite conditional love with ulterior motives. In contrast, God’s love is pure and unconditional and infinite, hence God’s hatred for the selfishness of sin could even be born out of love– to the extent that he is at peace with banishing souls away from his presence in hell for eternity since their selfish nature would corrupt heaven and turn it into hell for those that he loves just like in the days of Noah before he judged the earth with a flood. From attending a spectrum of evangelical churches after leaving the LC twelve years ago my experience has been that regardless of doctrinal stances (such as charismatic, non-charismatic, free grace, calvinist, arminian, etc.) a healthy church is one that emphasizes God’s tremendous love for us while at the same time recognizing the seriousness of sin and God’s hatred of it. Churches that emphasize one end of the spectrum without the other often run into problems, but perhaps the worst scenario is to not recognize either end and I think the LCs could actually fall into this bucket in both doctrine and practice. Through losing the focus on God’s love and hatred for sin, a vacuum is formed in the LCs which is filled by a focus to build Witness Lee’s empire of local churches and raising up disciples to follow the teachings embodied by LSM. God’s love is corrupted in practice because from the testimony and experience of many here, the love demonstrated in the LC is conditioned based on how “absolute” one is for the ministry. Once someone starts opposing Witness Lee’s ministry they turn into an enemy who is cast off as leprous and poison which is contrary to Jesus’ teaching of praying and loving our enemies (Matt 5:43-48). This lack of focus and worst of both worlds scenario is also demonstrated through the thousand year discipline in outer darkness doctrine for the disobedient believer. It not only communicates that God’s love and acceptance of us into his kingdom is conditioned on 1000 years of torment if we don’t live up to his standard but treats as eternally saved, a self-professed carnal believer who is a slave to sin and lives in hatred and hurt towards other believers. The result of this is when outrageous sins like sexual abuse occurs, the leaders give in to temptation to “cover” the sin since there are no eternal consequences as everyone in the congregation who professes belief in Jesus is treated as “wheat” and eternally saved, and we should just “move on” to build up Witness Lee’s empire. However in healthy churches and even including ones which adhere to Free Grace theology but recognize there are true and false believers and tares and wheat (Matt 13:24-43), unrepentant sin is treated with extreme concern due to its eternal implications since it is either evidence that the person is unsaved (OSAS perspective) or in danger of falling away from grace (non-OSAS perspective). Hence scripture teaches us that any person promoting and practicing sin will be asked to either repent or face expulsion from the congregation (1 Cor 5:11). The Apostle John recognized this and drew from Jesus’ parables of the wheat and tares to teach that self professed believers who are enslaved to sin and hate others are not real believers. 1 John 2:4 Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, 1 John 3:8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. 1 John 3:15 Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. On the other end of the spectrum the thousand year discipline doctrine is used to sow fear onto true believers, imposing the idea that if they don’t do enough to advance Witness Lee’s ministry through “fruit bearing” they will be tortured for a thousand years. It subconsciously dulls God’s love by making it conditioned on our “works”. But God loves us unconditionally and will grant us our desires if we choose to reject him or grant us entrance to join his family and kingdom forever when we repent and put our faith and trust in Jesus and become born again with his life. It’s this unconditional love that makes us feel safe, frees us from fear (1 John 4:18) and enables us to pour love into others. Yes it’s true, God really really really loves us and outside of violating our free will God will do anything to help us repent and trust in Him so we can come into his family and kingdom forever and ever (Luke 13:34). __________________ 1 John 4:9 This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. Last edited by bearbear; 01-24-2023 at 10:04 AM.

01-25-2023, 01:14 PM	#2
GraceAlone Member Join Date: Jul 2021 Posts: 45	Re: LC doctrine and practice through the lens of God's love and hatred for Great summary. Thanks for taking the time to articulate the spectrum and its dangers, including the specific ways this plays out in LC teaching and practice. The 1000-year-kingdom threat is an apt example. By the way, on that note I was reading Matthew 25 this morning, where Jesus talks about how when he returns in his glory, he will separate the sheep from the goats and reward people who fed the hungry, visited the sick, gave glasses of water, all in his name. Knowing how these kinds of good works are not promoted or even sometimes disparaged in the LC, I had a look at my old recovery version footnotes to see how they treated this passage. So interesting to see how they take this hyper dispensational spin on the passage so that it doesn’t even apply to believers! Their take on it really requires reading complex meaning into the text rather than taking the most straightforward interpretation. And so sad that many are missing out on the joy of fruitful living in service to others (outside LC boundaries) in this age because they think that it just doesn’t apply to them.

01-26-2023, 07:21 AM	#5
GraceAlone Member Join Date: Jul 2021 Posts: 45	Re: LC doctrine and practice through the lens of God's love and hatred for Yes, I understand the teaching about the nations. That is one interpretation of who Jesus is referring to, it's what's in the RcV, and it may be the correct one. I don't see it personally in my reading of the text, including its context, and I don't think it's the majority view among Christian teachers about this passage, but I could be wrong. My point was not to start a debate about dispensationalism, who the nations are, when Jesus will address them, etc. My point, and I may have made it clumsily, was to corroborate Bearbear's observation about how LC teachings can unnecessarily complicate and obscure Jesus' straightforward teaching about the Christian life being marked by love of God and love of neighbor. The simplest reading of Matthew 25 seems to suggest that Jesus is fleshing out what it would look like to live out these two great commandments as evidence of being a true believer: small acts of ordinary faithful service to the "least of these." Even if you don't think the "sheep and goats" apply to believers at all, it feels rather risky to foist the accountability for this kind of living onto some future and "other" group of people. The fruit of it includes not only disparagement of so-called "good works" but also missing out on an aspect of Christian living that, in my experience and that of others, leads to real joy.

01-26-2023, 11:59 AM	#8
Trapped Member Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 1,523	Re: LC doctrine and practice through the lens of God's love and hatred for GraceAlone, I understand what you are saying. Regardless of the specific interpretation of that passage or whoever it applies to, what is plainly stated and not subject to interpretation is the emphasis on and importance of so many of the good works that the local church disparages. bearbear, I came to a similar conclusion recently about the "love and sin" thing. A church that is all about judgment and condemnation and how sinful we are only breeds anxiety and harassment upon its members. A church that is all about love and acceptance but avoids the seriousness of sin and our personal responsibility (not just speaking out about oppression or abuse in general society, but how seriously God takes sin and each individual members' conduct) preaches a thoroughly incomplete gospel. In Mark 1, John the Baptist preached "a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins"! It's both sides - the repentance is our acknowledgement of our sin before a holy God, and the forgiveness shows the far-reaching depths of His love! The local church preaches a skewed version both of God and His love as well as of sin....and it shows! Trapped

01-27-2023, 08:22 AM	#10
Unregistered Guest Posts: n/a	Re: LC doctrine and practice through the lens of God's love and hatred for I think that Bible gives us plenty of ways to figure out and know the truth, in the simplest and child like ways. In 1 John 2, says, “If ye know that He is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.” For those of us who were at one time snared by this group, can make clear choices if we go back to plain, simple reading of the Word. When you taught that good and evil doesn’t matter, right and wrong is of death, - Why you people are expecting these men to acknowledge anything or anyone who exposed their unrighteousness and abuses? - Why do people bang their heads trying to constantly expect changes in the care and love category that doesn’t exist there? - Why so many people think that something will change, something will happen to these people that all of a sudden they will leave Leeism and go back to follow Jesus Christ? I’m not denying or even questioning the statements about all of the unrighteousness that had and still happening in the TLR, I just caution people to stop expecting any changes or waiting for dialogue or help. You be the helper, you be the one who listens, you be the one to wrap a hurt soul! If for every one post that you write, you reach out and offer help to someone who is hurt, devastated family or an individual, the change will come! Pray for the afflicted, cry with those that are hurt, love the unlovable! Don’t waste your energy on people who don’t care, won’t care, and even will call you out. God is love, that’s His expression! Unfortunately Leeism degraded that expression and made a mockery of it!