A different Perspective!

Paul Vusik · 11-12-2021, 06:48 AM

Hello all,

I have recently found this website, while doing some extensive research regarding the so-called truths that I have been told. I must admit that the detox process is not always a pleasant experience, but something that one has to go through. By the mercy and grace of God, I have been recently (about 10 months) taken out of this movement, after spending 12+ years dishonoring Him, doubting Him, and prostituting myself (spiritually speaking), believing a lie!

I don't really want to get into all details regarding on how and when I got into it at this time, (one day I will), however, I can testify that as couple of men told me upon my notification to them that I'm no longer part of this group, "Paul, you know you can't leave this, there is no way out! There is no where to go! Don't worry, you will be back here in a matter of time". Those are probably the only true statements that I have heard! And after not understanding the matter at hand, and having to stand before God and beg for the answers, I've realized and see their point. No man by themselves can leave this! No-one can just pack their bags and go away! No-one can just say that I disagree and leave, because if you believed that lie once, it comes with strings attached and will pull you back into it, if not to these man, but sometimes into even worse! It requires God, only He can pull someone out of it! Only He can cut all ties and strings! Only He can set you free!

I just want to point out one theme, or one underlining issue that I have discovered and noticed with mostly all people that are no longer associated with this scam, and that issue is doctrinal bases. Although it is the biggest and the most important of all issues, no argument from me, I do believe that there is a trap that’s is purposely set there. I will just touch one aspect of it. I hope that me bringing in this illustration will help someone see, or at least shed some light into the matter at hand. Ephesians 6:12 (King James Version) "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places".

How many of you ever played a game of chess? Or how many understand the concepts of what the game is all about? If you do, great. That will help you to understand what Im trying to point out, but if you don't, just understanding a simple concept of "winning a battle, but losing a war", is enough to get my point.

Just like with any great and effective operation and strategy, there is sometimes things that one has to sacrifice in order to achieve the bigger goal. This is not your typical Joyce Myers, or Joel Olsteen run of the mill operation. I can guarantee you that it wasn't put together overnite in the garage. This is not trading your bishop for a knight, or pawn for a pawn, and at the end calling it a draw! This is more like trading their queen for a pawn, with the hope that you don't see the trap that's is set there, and jump all over it, so that they can get to your King! I apologize that I'm using this examples to show something that I hope will point someone to a slightly different direction and to maybe see how this thing here is put together. There is much more to this than arguments about doctrines and practices.

Lastly, I say to those who live in any kind of fear of these men, and become anonymous online critics and pontificators. Although I understand and can clearly see what the consequences of doing so would be, I ask you to consider this: What was the reason God by His mercy on you took you out of this scam or anything else for that matter? What was the reason you have been set free, if that so happen in your life and this is not just a holy war on your understanding of the certain truths? Are we called to be the light? Are we called to be the salt? Are we to continue to live our live in our own pity, “Oh, poor me. How I got screwed”? Are we to still yield anything to this scam, and give power to the man that invented it or the people that run it? You all know how many people’s lives and families have been destroyed by this scam, even their own children will testify against them! I ask and say all this not to say that I’m in a better situation than ya’ll, but I say this knowing that, this is exactly where these men want you to be. This is exactly where they feel most powerful! This is exactly what this is all about. And while you all out here fighting the holy battle, of trying to prove who is right and who is wrong, they will be going after your weak! They are going after you children! They are going after your wives, because you know “if we get the children, we will get the mother, and then the father will have no choice”. And while a lot of you thinking that your are winning your holy battles, these men are winning ultimate war!

I ask you all to consider the matter at hand and look at it from the perspective of the scripture above, who we are to wrestle, and who/what stand behind this whole scam! There will be no draw, nor there will be any yielding! Do not fear these men, they have as much power as a common flu, although they will say otherwise! Instead, put your testimony out in the light! I’m sure that wherever you are in the world, there are hundreds if not thousands of children, women, and men that are looking for someone to help them! There are hundreds of people who are living in fear, living in crippling chains of this disabling scam! Point them to the One that can free, the One that can restore! Point them to Him that has set you free, The Real Jesus, the Living one! Maybe just one person who will see your testimony before man, and you will have a chance to share Christ with them, and that will be way better off than posting online as anonymous victims! We are not called to sell a vision, or to follow one! We are not here to preach a word of a man, but to preach Christ, and Christ crucified! 1 Cor 9:16 “…Woe unto me, if I preach not the gospel” and also 1 Cor 1:23 “But we preach Christ crucified”. Throw away all visions, all junk that’s associated with it also! Jer 17:5 “Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusts in man, and taketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD”. Him alone, Christ alone! May God be our Shepard in every step that we take, and every moment of our lives! Do not fear anyone, except God!

2 Timothy 1:7 (KJV)
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
Matthew 10:28 (KJV)
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

God Bless.
Paul.

I apologize for any grammatical errors or such, English and writing is not my strong suit.

HERn · 11-12-2021, 07:51 AM

Hi brother Paul! I hope to hear more from you!! Sounds like you have your head screwed on right!
-

Nell · 11-12-2021, 11:56 AM

Paul,

The best English is plain English. You nailed it.

Nell

Trapped · 11-13-2021, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Vusik

Hello all,

I have recently found this website, while doing some extensive research regarding the so-called truths that I have been told. I must admit that the detox process is not always a pleasant experience, but something that one has to go through. By the mercy and grace of God, I have been recently (about 10 months) taken out of this movement, after spending 12+ years dishonoring Him, doubting Him, and prostituting myself (spiritually speaking), believing a lie!

I don't really want to get into all details regarding on how and when I got into it at this time, (one day I will), however, I can testify that as couple of men told me upon my notification to them that I'm no longer part of this group, "Paul, you know you can't leave this, there is no way out! There is no where to go! Don't worry, you will be back here in a matter of time". Those are probably the only true statements that I have heard! And after not understanding the matter at hand, and having to stand before God and beg for the answers, I've realized and see their point. No man by themselves can leave this! No-one can just pack their bags and go away! No-one can just say that I disagree and leave, because if you believed that lie once, it comes with strings attached and will pull you back into it, if not to these man, but sometimes into even worse! It requires God, only He can pull someone out of it! Only He can cut all ties and strings! Only He can set you free!

Welcome to the forum, Paul Vusik!

Thanks so much for including this record of your experience here. This type of reaction and response that you received from some of the men in the local church needs to be preserved for future readers. This is one of the things that makes the local church unhealthy and a place to run from.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Vusik

Lastly, I say to those who live in any kind of fear of these men, and become anonymous online critics and pontificators. Although I understand and can clearly see what the consequences of doing so would be, I ask you to consider this: What was the reason God by His mercy on you took you out of this scam or anything else for that matter? What was the reason you have been set free, if that so happen in your life and this is not just a holy war on your understanding of the certain truths? Are we called to be the light? Are we called to be the salt? Are we to continue to live our live in our own pity, “Oh, poor me. How I got screwed”? Are we to still yield anything to this scam, and give power to the man that invented it or the people that run it? You all know how many people’s lives and families have been destroyed by this scam, even their own children will testify against them! I ask and say all this not to say that I’m in a better situation than ya’ll, but I say this knowing that, this is exactly where these men want you to be. This is exactly where they feel most powerful! This is exactly what this is all about. And while you all out here fighting the holy battle, of trying to prove who is right and who is wrong, they will be going after your weak! They are going after you children! They are going after your wives, because you know “if we get the children, we will get the mother, and then the father will have no choice”. And while a lot of you thinking that your are winning your holy battles, these men are winning ultimate war!

I ask you all to consider the matter at hand and look at it from the perspective of the scripture above, who we are to wrestle, and who/what stand behind this whole scam! There will be no draw, nor there will be any yielding! Do not fear these men, they have as much power as a common flu, although they will say otherwise! Instead, put your testimony out in the light! I’m sure that wherever you are in the world, there are hundreds if not thousands of children, women, and men that are looking for someone to help them! There are hundreds of people who are living in fear, living in crippling chains of this disabling scam! Point them to the One that can free, the One that can restore! Point them to Him that has set you free, The Real Jesus, the Living one! Maybe just one person who will see your testimony before man, and you will have a chance to share Christ with them, and that will be way better off than posting online as anonymous victims! We are not called to sell a vision, or to follow one! We are not here to preach a word of a man, but to preach Christ, and Christ crucified! 1 Cor 9:16 “…Woe unto me, if I preach not the gospel” and also 1 Cor 1:23 “But we preach Christ crucified”. Throw away all visions, all junk that’s associated with it also! Jer 17:5 “Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusts in man, and taketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD”. Him alone, Christ alone! May God be our Shepard in every step that we take, and every moment of our lives! Do not fear anyone, except God!

2 Timothy 1:7 (KJV)
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
Matthew 10:28 (KJV)
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Thanks also for this message to "wake up"! I cannot disagree with anything you have said (except I'm not sure that I think I'm waging any kind of "holy battle" here......just trying to figure things out is all). But your point about the activity happening here while at the same time the local churches continue on recruiting and deceiving vulnerable and naive victims is well taken. You are totally right that we are not to fear men, but are only to fear the one who can destroy both body and soul. What frustrates me is that the power, for many, is not necessarily directly from the co-workers themselves.....they are as weighty as a feather......but simply in the almost guaranteed loss of family relationships if anyone were to speak out publicly and strongly. Of not wanting to crush family members who would be crushed to know you were speaking out against something that is their entire identity.

Of course, we are called to honor God above all if He calls us to do such a thing. It doesn't mean there isn't a inner battle about it, though. But thank you for your admonishing and encouraging......hopefully making each of us go before the Lord once again about it.

Trapped

Ohio · 11-13-2021, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trapped

You are totally right that we are not to fear men, but are only to fear the one who can destroy both body and soul. What frustrates me is that the power, for many, is not necessarily directly from the co-workers themselves.....they are as weighty as a feather......but simply in the almost guaranteed loss of family relationships if anyone were to speak out publicly and strongly. Of not wanting to crush family members who would be crushed to know you were speaking out against something that is their entire identity.

For some strange reason I have always been interested in seeing the bravery of those who escaped controlling exclusive systems. At my first engineering job, I worked with a Russian engineer who had just escaped the Communist system. Martin Luther and William Farel were two reformers whose biographies just fascinated me. More recently stories of Amish and Exclusive Brethren finding exodus has caught my attention. John chapter 9 is another story of a blind beggar who stood up against the powers that be.

In each case the common denominator gripping them was fear, fear of the unknown, fear of hurting family and friends, fear of family and friends getting hurt. Yet freedom was calling them. They were willing to take that risk. They had to get out. None left impulsively on a whim or a dare, rather within they weighed the costs, and decided freedom was worth it. They left everything. They left a totally structured life for the freedom to make choices on their own, full of uncertainties, dangers, and frustrations. Many went out like Father Abraham, "not knowing where he was going." (Heb 11.8)

Paul Vusik · 11-13-2021, 09:52 PM

Hello all again,

I very much appreciate all of the response and encouragement from you all.
It takes a lot out of me, to post here, I must admit. I wish it wasn’t so, but my lovely wife and my kids are very much still stuck in this scam, with no end in sight! I trust my God, Who has the best way to get us to trust Him in all our circumstances. Just as it was for me, when the Lord said to get out, I got to trust Him again in a bigger and more challenging way, by giving Him my wife and kids regardless of the outcome. And if tomorrow I wake up with all things gone, I would still be able to say, “God gave, and God took”, “I praise You, my Lord”. There is nothing more satisfying than seeing Him come through over and over again, and even when it’s bleak and not much hope, He can do what no man can, and that change lives of people. I ask you all to keep me and my family in your prayers, it’s a great fight, but He is able to do more that we ask! And even if it ain’t so, He will still be my King!

Ohio · 11-14-2021, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Vusik

Hello all again,

I very much appreciate all of the response and encouragement from you all.
It takes a lot out of me, to post here, I must admit. I wish it wasn’t so, but my lovely wife and my kids are very much still stuck in this scam, with no end in sight! I trust my God, Who has the best way to get us to trust Him in all our circumstances.

Not sure if this is your real name, but LSM and DCP do monitor this site and they are known for twisting the facts to slander those who speak truth.

Perhaps you might want to change your "name" to protect your family during this transition.

Sons to Glory! · 11-13-2021, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Vusik

I don't really want to get into all details regarding on how and when I got into it at this time, (one day I will), however, I can testify that as couple of men told me upon my notification to them that I'm no longer part of this group, "Paul, you know you can't leave this, there is no way out! There is no where to go! Don't worry, you will be back here in a matter of time". Those are probably the only true statements that I have heard! And after not understanding the matter at hand, and having to stand before God and beg for the answers, I've realized and see their point. No man by themselves can leave this! No-one can just pack their bags and go away! No-one can just say that I disagree and leave, because if you believed that lie once, it comes with strings attached and will pull you back into it, if not to these man, but sometimes into even worse! It requires God, only He can pull someone out of it! Only He can cut all ties and strings! Only He can set you free!

Thanks for posting, Paul! It's amazing that they actually said that to you! But now that I remember my LC days, I'm recalling how many times things similar to that were actually said. It's because they thought their high vision of the church and the practice of the open meetings and inner-life was so special, that there just couldn't be anywhere else a believer could possibly go to be watered and fed properly by Him! And I largely bought into that too, because at the time it did seem like something so different and better than mainline Christianity. I did begin to get a taste of the LC exclusivity, and I believe the Lord in me was pointing some of that out back then. Even certain writings of Nee and Lee warned about these kinds of exclusive and high-minded behaviors . . .

But the Lord had to get me out first through some external circumstances, in that my job moved my family into the middle of the dessert, where there was no LC for many miles. For over 10 years He dried me out and eventually made me desperate to seek Him for where there might be good Christ centered teachings and fellowship. In utter desperation one day, I spent hours in a Christian bookstore trying to find something that was focused on knowing Christ Himself. But all I seemed to find were Christian psychology-centered books, or Christian self-help books, or "how to" books (laws & rules) or about living an outwardly prosperous Christian life . . . so many books with what seemed like hollow sounding fluff, or at least that was my perception.

Then, that same day, He lead me to find John Piper's book, Desiring God. And as I stood there and read a few things from it, I began to be touched by the Spirit and the Anointing told me I had found something good, that truly honored the new covenant and Christ. I took that book home and began to devour it and it greatly nourished my spirit. From that I was encouraged and strengthened to further seek the Lord and ongoing Christian fellowship.

So that was how the Lord led me to see that there were good sources of Christian teaching outside the LC. Since then (about 22 years ago) He has worked in me significantly to really appreciate all Christians, no matter what teaching or practice they are following, and to be able to just seek the Lord with anyone regardless.

Therefore don't believe the lie that the LC is like "Hotel California" i.e., "you can never leave!" The Lord is faithful and will lead you where He needs to place you in the body. (however, be patient as it may take a while for Him to get you to that place (internally and externally).

Paul Vusik · 11-14-2021, 12:03 PM

KJV “Luke 14:28-35”
“28*For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?
29*Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,
30*Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.
31*Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand?
32*Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace.
33*So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.
34*Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be seasoned?
35*It is neither fit for the land, nor yet for the dunghill; but men cast it out. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Hi Ohio,
I appreciate your responses and do understand the thinking behind the idea of not wanting to expose yourself or anyone around you to the scrutiny or any other malice attacks. However, one of the first things that struck me about this site, and other way that people have expressed and communicated their issues, testimonies, and just shared anything, was by being anonymous. Everyone has a way, but I personally consider the anonymous way to be kind of cowardly, and smells too much like the the way things were/are done in the scam that I was a part of.

There is always “leading brothers, with no name attached” , there is political correctness at the highest level, there is always “don’t say that, don’t be that way, “we are all about “onness”, let’s just all get together and sing a kumbaya. I really don’t consider that way to be a way of change, or a way to bigger and better things.

You mentioned in one of the post earlier, about the man that stood for something that they believed, can you imagine if they where just anonymous sources laying out their lives and standing for something without disclosing who they are? Don’t get me wrong, I feel for people who have been through the rigger, and as the verses that I mentioned above state, one would be a fool to not sit there and calculate the costs that one would incur do so with your identity attached to it.

That is my real name, and they can say whatever they like! I have no fear or will get offended at their proclamations! I have been freed from all that nonsense of seeing the destruction of people and just looking the other way, or as I was told many times “just pray about it brother”, “just let the Lord take care of it”. Did the children of Israel upon being saved from their captivity in Egypt, sat in the dessert and just chanted the name a billion times with hope that God would just do everything for them, or they actually had to go and while trusting Him to stand with them, fight for what they got, even though it was promised to them? Does the farmer sit and prays in his house for a great harvest, but never goes out and plows the field, plants the seed, and water it for growth, trusting God that it will all be done for Him? What kind of harvest should he expect? You all know the answer for that.

So as much as it pains me to say this, God is not anonymous, and if we are His children we shouldn’t be also! We need to put on the bootstraps, and the full armor, and go out and do what His disciples got to do, even if it cost you everything and more! After all, what’s there to be attached to? It will all burn one day! There is no money, no gold or silver that can replace what He gave us!

I say one thing before I end: that God has to be, and must be trusted in all His promises and that’s the only way! I would equate the scam that is perpetrated on these people who refuse to listen, check, double check, and even consider to see facts that are still available for anyone that’s willing to put their time, prayer, and asking Him to lead you unto the right path, to a person that went online shopping for a very expensive luxury car. Guess what, he got a great deal on the brand new Bugatti. Paid for it, the payment went out, and the person was really happy about it. They were so happy about the deal that they got, that they didn’t even read the fine print , it just unnecessary, when you get such a great deal! Well, after some time they got the car, and they park it right in the middle of their living room. And today all the do is just sit there and look at it, and just say,”Wow, what a Bugatti”, “Bugatti, can you believe that I got such a great deal? They invite people over and brag, and gush about it! They even have meetings around it! You got to, how can you not when the deal was sooooo sweeeeet!!!

But then one day he invited one of his best friends over for one of those meetings, and a man took the owner to the side and asked him, “Hey, that’s a nice deal you got there on that car, you got a great deal! I just have two questions for you: 1. Why such a great car, with such power and might is parked in the middle of your living room, and not outside, why you not driving it in the fast lane? 2. Why don’t you ever let anyone inside the car, to sit in it, and maybe start it, smell the burning of that high octane fuel, hear the roar of that engine? And the man just got all shy and uncomfortable. He said “I can’t discuss this with you at this time, maybe another time.”, and said, “why don’t we just go over there where everyone at and just enjoy the time, look at it, its a beast!”

But after the whole this was over, and everyone left the meeting, and the man was left to himself, he just couldn’t find a place or room in his house to find a peace about those questions. And after considerable time thinking about it, he called back his friend and said the following, with tear running down his face: “I got SCAMMED! I feel ashamed to even tell people! They took everything from me, all my money, my bank account is empty, and they just keep calling me all the time, saying that if I ever say anything to anyone, they will come after me! And about the car by the way, its just a shell, they gutted it! There is no engine, no electrical system, even the interior is fake, spray painted plastic! If you sit in it, it will all fall apart, I can’t even open the door, and I have no keys! I fail to read the fine print! I never researched it, never thought someone would do that to me, I trusted a man!”

And his friend said to him: “You need to share this with people, even if they will make fun of you, even if they all abandon you, because you are broke and you lied to them about how great this thing is! And you you need to do that immediately, don’t wait another day, because the scammers that did that to you, they are out there looking for their next victim! It’s no longer about you, its not about your feelings and your comfort. Look out for others, and maybe one day they will get cut. You will get back what was taken from you, and more!”

After considering everything that he was told, and understanding that what he is to do, he went out and told people about what happened. Most, had their usual laugh at him. Some, took notice. But there was a couple of people who took him aside and said, “we had it happen to us, we were just too embarrased to even say something, let alone invite someone over to the house and brag about it!”.

And then came another man and said, “I know the scammer personally, he is related to me, very close family member, he has been doing this for a very long time. He just uses the name Bugatti to attract people, its not even the Bugatti that is real, he makes them out of junk cars in his back yard, and just sits and waits for a naive person to bite, hook, line and sinker, and hopefully the boat anchor too, so that one would never come out of the water to tell anyone about it. I will help you with your loss he said, “we will go to the real Bugatti owner, and tell him about what is going on here, and hopefully he will do something about it! We cannot do this by ourselves, the man got too many people that run this operation! All we have to do is just notify the Real Owner! He will deal with it!”

I hope that this will help someone understand that sometimes its not all about the comforts that we are so accustomed to enjoy, its not about peace and tranquility that is so prevalent and disabling, its about a bigger picture!

And as this quote that I read a while ago says:
“The greatest man in history is Jesus.
He had no servants, yet they called Him Master.
He had no degree, yet the called Him Teacher.
He had no medicines, yet they called Him Healer.
He had no army, yet kings feared Him.
He won no military battles, yet he conquered the world.
He committed no crime, yet they crucified Him.
He was buried in the tomb, but yet He lives today”

Thats the Kind of Bugatti we have, we just need to drive it! Own it! Live it!
With Him All things are possible.

God Bless you all!

Paul Vusik.

Nell · 11-14-2021, 04:58 PM

Paul,

I understand your position. It is your freedom to walk in the path as you are led by the Lord, as we each walk before him the best we know how. Some may be motivated by fear, or cowardice…as you say. Some may be motivated by obedience to his voice. Regardless, we all one day may openly confront the LC leadership.

My personal desire is to speak as led by the spirit, and pray that they are ready to hear.

Nell

Robert · 11-15-2021, 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Vusik;

[QUOTE

But then one day he invited one of his best friends over for one of those meetings, and a man took the owner to the side and asked him,

“

Hi, Paul!

I will comment with my story only part for now. Lack of time.

There was a party. One rich man invited some guests to show them brand new Bugatti. He enjoyed it so much and was very happy. After few months, during another show party, one stranger approached him. He was friend of friends, who had friends. He came from near State.
He also purchased such a Bugatti, and after some time was ashamed by discovery it was a shell.
Hi had a burden to go everywhere it happened and warn and tell people about fake Bugatti.
So and now, when Hi approached owner of so called "bugatti", because of big pain and very difficult experience, he spoke loudly to everyone: Do not believe in it! This one is fake! "
Do You know what happened next?
All happy guest, together with owner and his wife and children, took this guy and kicked out. They didn't want lose good party and joyse.

After few months the same man who was kicked out, was invited to his best friend's house for the same reason. Then, he approached his best friend in room with Bugatti and told him... .

After those two events, this "kicked out" man, learned where and to whom hi can share hi experience.
End of story.

Your story was good and clear.
Robert

Paul Vusik · 12-18-2021, 05:25 PM

Difference between satanic deception vs THE TRUTH!!!

“When Christ was on earth He referred to the church two times—in Matthew 16 and Matthew 18. In the first instance, He referred to the universal church, and in the second instance, He referred to the local church. In speaking of the authority of the local church, He said, "If he refuses to hear the church also, let him be to you just like the Gentile and the tax collector" (18:17). This verse shows us that the authority of the church is derived from its representation of Christ. Christ has given His authority to the church and authorized the church to execute His will on earth. The Bible shows us that there are three ways in which a person can receive guidance from God: (1) God's Word—the Bible,

(2) the indwelling Holy Spirit,

and (3) the church in a locality. The third line is the most important line.

The leading of the Bible and the Spirit are individual in nature, but the leading of the local church is corporate in nature. The local church, being the local expression of the Body of Christ, has the headship of Christ and, therefore, can know the mind of Christ, which is always communicated to His Body. The local church declares the headship of Christ. "Truly I say to you, Whatever you bind on the earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on the earth shall have been loosed in heaven" (v. 18). A person who sees the Body seeks fellowship and accepts the leading of the church. Often the decision of a church in a rural area is proven to be better than the decision of a church in the city. Such a decision does not originate from man's ability or wisdom but from the corporate seeking in one accord. In order to know God's will and His way, it is not enough for us to read the Bible or pray by ourselves. We have to be in the fellowship of the local church, live the Body life, and follow God's leading in the Body.”
(https://www.ministrybooks.org/books.cfm?n)

VS
Galatians 4:22-31
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

Galatians 5:1-2
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

CONCLUSION:
According to THE TLR, we should all throw away our BIBLES,

(I would actually agree with throwing away that corrupted recovery junk, good for kindling), forget about following the leading of the Holy Spirit,

(and recieve a spirit of recovery's jesus),
AND SUBMIT YOURSELVES TO THE MODERN DAY JUDAIZERS AND TLR HIGH PRIESTS!!!!

THANK GOD FOR MY LORD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST, AND THE FREEDOM AND LIBERTY IN HIM!!!

Robert · 12-19-2021, 10:58 AM

[QUOTE=Paul Vusik;101554]The Bible shows us that there are three ways in which a person can receive guidance from God: (1) God's Word—the Bible,

(2) the indwelling Holy Spirit,

and (3) the church in a locality. The third line is the most important line.

The leading of the Bible and the Spirit are individual in nature, but the leading of the local church is corporate in nature. The local church, being the local expression of the Body of Christ, has the headship of Christ and, therefore, can know the mind of Christ, which is always communicated to His Body. The local church declares the headship of Christ. "Truly I say to you, Whatever you bind on the earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on the earth shall have been loosed in heaven" (v. 18). A person who sees the Body seeks fellowship and accepts the leading of the church. Often the decision of a church in a rural area is proven to be better than the decision of a church in the city. Such a decision does not originate from man's ability or wisdom but from the corporate seeking in one accord. In order to know God's will and His way, it is not enough for us to read the Bible or pray by ourselves. We have to be in the fellowship of the local church, live the Body life, and follow God's leading in the Body.”
(https://www.ministrybooks.org/books.cfm?n)

I am glad for Your sharing, Paul!
I was always wondering what role has group of saved people in this world and if this is important for God to have any expression.
Answer is very simple. It is enough to reject all teachings and take a look in Bible what says about it.
What WN and WL did is called "stretching the truth"...
What is "Body life"?
What is "God's leading in the Body"?
Lier, lier, pants on fire...
Two first points are MOST IMPORTANT!
If not personal relationship with God, He would not send so many prophets with warnings to His people. There is no such a corporate hearing or receiving. We can bring some problem and then others can pray and receive the same answer from Holly Spirit.
Last quoted words was way to establish group of people easy to manipulate and control.
Another option is, that he was honest and just overemphesized matter of Body.
Any way, his teaching was not based on Bible. I can see only certain people who was obey to God. There is only individual responsibility for our own acts.
Of course there will be result of oneness in Spirit shown in mutual love among saints. But never in reversed way. We should never be focused on building anything. Verse, verses, and one more time verses.
I have to reverse that false words in correct one:
In order to know God's will and His way, it is ENOUGH for us to read the Bible or pray by ourselves.
Then God will lead us to others.

Paul Vusik · 12-19-2021, 01:34 PM

(2) Difference between satanic deception vs THE TRUTH!!!

"In order to accomplish His purpose, God already did three great things. The first thing is that God created man. He created man in His image and according to His likeness (Gen. 1:26). God created man not in the image of the birds or in the image of the beasts but in the image of God. What God created was man, but what came out was God. Today we are not only man; we are also God. We are man yet God. Likewise, today God is not only God; He is also man. He is God yet man. As a result, both God and man, both man and God, are completely alike and become a matching couple.

How wonderful this is!"

https://www.ministrybooks.org/books.cfm?n

HAVE WE NOT HEARD THAT BEFORE SOMEWHERE???

Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

VS

Gen 1:27
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

GOD DID NOT MAKE A MISTAKE WHILE TRYING TO CREATE A MAN, HE CREATED A MINI GOD. PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

Ephesians 4:22-25
22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.

Col 3:8-11
8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

2 Cor 5-17-21
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

NETHER DO WE BECOME GOD AT ANY POINT OF OUR EXISTENCE!!!

CONCLUSION.

THE WORD OF GOD IS CLEAR AND SIMPLE. YOU ETHER LISTEN TO THE SERPENT AND HIS SERVANTS, OR READ AND BELIEVE GOD, AND THE WORD OF GOD! THEREFORE, IF ANYONE CAN PUT 2+2 TOGETHER, YOU KNOW WHERE AND HOW THE WHOLE TLR SYSTEM IS BUILD. PLEASE, READ THE WORD OF GOD AND DON'T FALL FOR THE SAME LIE! IF YOU ARE A PERSON OF ANY AGE, WHETHER YOU ARE A BELIEVER OR NOT, AND ARE BEING RECRUITED BY THIS SCAM, I BEG YOU CRY OUT TO REAL GOD, REAL JESUS, AND STAY OUT OF THIS SCAM BY A MILLION MILES!!!

11-12-2021, 06:48 AM	#1
Paul Vusik Member Join Date: Oct 2021 Posts: 196	A different Perspective! Hello all, I have recently found this website, while doing some extensive research regarding the so-called truths that I have been told. I must admit that the detox process is not always a pleasant experience, but something that one has to go through. By the mercy and grace of God, I have been recently (about 10 months) taken out of this movement, after spending 12+ years dishonoring Him, doubting Him, and prostituting myself (spiritually speaking), believing a lie! I don't really want to get into all details regarding on how and when I got into it at this time, (one day I will), however, I can testify that as couple of men told me upon my notification to them that I'm no longer part of this group, "Paul, you know you can't leave this, there is no way out! There is no where to go! Don't worry, you will be back here in a matter of time". Those are probably the only true statements that I have heard! And after not understanding the matter at hand, and having to stand before God and beg for the answers, I've realized and see their point. No man by themselves can leave this! No-one can just pack their bags and go away! No-one can just say that I disagree and leave, because if you believed that lie once, it comes with strings attached and will pull you back into it, if not to these man, but sometimes into even worse! It requires God, only He can pull someone out of it! Only He can cut all ties and strings! Only He can set you free! I just want to point out one theme, or one underlining issue that I have discovered and noticed with mostly all people that are no longer associated with this scam, and that issue is doctrinal bases. Although it is the biggest and the most important of all issues, no argument from me, I do believe that there is a trap that’s is purposely set there. I will just touch one aspect of it. I hope that me bringing in this illustration will help someone see, or at least shed some light into the matter at hand. Ephesians 6:12 (King James Version) "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places". How many of you ever played a game of chess? Or how many understand the concepts of what the game is all about? If you do, great. That will help you to understand what Im trying to point out, but if you don't, just understanding a simple concept of "winning a battle, but losing a war", is enough to get my point. Just like with any great and effective operation and strategy, there is sometimes things that one has to sacrifice in order to achieve the bigger goal. This is not your typical Joyce Myers, or Joel Olsteen run of the mill operation. I can guarantee you that it wasn't put together overnite in the garage. This is not trading your bishop for a knight, or pawn for a pawn, and at the end calling it a draw! This is more like trading their queen for a pawn, with the hope that you don't see the trap that's is set there, and jump all over it, so that they can get to your King! I apologize that I'm using this examples to show something that I hope will point someone to a slightly different direction and to maybe see how this thing here is put together. There is much more to this than arguments about doctrines and practices. Lastly, I say to those who live in any kind of fear of these men, and become anonymous online critics and pontificators. Although I understand and can clearly see what the consequences of doing so would be, I ask you to consider this: What was the reason God by His mercy on you took you out of this scam or anything else for that matter? What was the reason you have been set free, if that so happen in your life and this is not just a holy war on your understanding of the certain truths? Are we called to be the light? Are we called to be the salt? Are we to continue to live our live in our own pity, “Oh, poor me. How I got screwed”? Are we to still yield anything to this scam, and give power to the man that invented it or the people that run it? You all know how many people’s lives and families have been destroyed by this scam, even their own children will testify against them! I ask and say all this not to say that I’m in a better situation than ya’ll, but I say this knowing that, this is exactly where these men want you to be. This is exactly where they feel most powerful! This is exactly what this is all about. And while you all out here fighting the holy battle, of trying to prove who is right and who is wrong, they will be going after your weak! They are going after you children! They are going after your wives, because you know “if we get the children, we will get the mother, and then the father will have no choice”. And while a lot of you thinking that your are winning your holy battles, these men are winning ultimate war! I ask you all to consider the matter at hand and look at it from the perspective of the scripture above, who we are to wrestle, and who/what stand behind this whole scam! There will be no draw, nor there will be any yielding! Do not fear these men, they have as much power as a common flu, although they will say otherwise! Instead, put your testimony out in the light! I’m sure that wherever you are in the world, there are hundreds if not thousands of children, women, and men that are looking for someone to help them! There are hundreds of people who are living in fear, living in crippling chains of this disabling scam! Point them to the One that can free, the One that can restore! Point them to Him that has set you free, The Real Jesus, the Living one! Maybe just one person who will see your testimony before man, and you will have a chance to share Christ with them, and that will be way better off than posting online as anonymous victims! We are not called to sell a vision, or to follow one! We are not here to preach a word of a man, but to preach Christ, and Christ crucified! 1 Cor 9:16 “…Woe unto me, if I preach not the gospel” and also 1 Cor 1:23 “But we preach Christ crucified”. Throw away all visions, all junk that’s associated with it also! Jer 17:5 “Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusts in man, and taketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD”. Him alone, Christ alone! May God be our Shepard in every step that we take, and every moment of our lives! Do not fear anyone, except God! 2 Timothy 1:7 (KJV) For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. Matthew 10:28 (KJV) 28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. God Bless. Paul. I apologize for any grammatical errors or such, English and writing is not my strong suit.

11-12-2021, 07:51 AM	#2
HERn Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 968	Re: A different Perspective! Hi brother Paul! I hope to hear more from you!! Sounds like you have your head screwed on right! - __________________ Hebrews 12:2 "Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith." (KJV Version) Look to Jesus not The Ministry.

11-12-2021, 11:56 AM	#3
Nell Admin/Moderator Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 2,100	Re: A different Perspective! Paul, The best English is plain English. You nailed it. Nell

11-13-2021, 09:52 PM	#6
Paul Vusik Member Join Date: Oct 2021 Posts: 196	Re: A different Perspective! Hello all again, I very much appreciate all of the response and encouragement from you all. It takes a lot out of me, to post here, I must admit. I wish it wasn’t so, but my lovely wife and my kids are very much still stuck in this scam, with no end in sight! I trust my God, Who has the best way to get us to trust Him in all our circumstances. Just as it was for me, when the Lord said to get out, I got to trust Him again in a bigger and more challenging way, by giving Him my wife and kids regardless of the outcome. And if tomorrow I wake up with all things gone, I would still be able to say, “God gave, and God took”, “I praise You, my Lord”. There is nothing more satisfying than seeing Him come through over and over again, and even when it’s bleak and not much hope, He can do what no man can, and that change lives of people. I ask you all to keep me and my family in your prayers, it’s a great fight, but He is able to do more that we ask! And even if it ain’t so, He will still be my King!

11-14-2021, 12:03 PM	#9
Paul Vusik Member Join Date: Oct 2021 Posts: 196	Re: A different Perspective! KJV “Luke 14:28-35” “28For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it? 29Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him, 30Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish. 31Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand? 32Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace. 33So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple. 34Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be seasoned? 35It is neither fit for the land, nor yet for the dunghill; but men cast it out. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. Hi Ohio, I appreciate your responses and do understand the thinking behind the idea of not wanting to expose yourself or anyone around you to the scrutiny or any other malice attacks. However, one of the first things that struck me about this site, and other way that people have expressed and communicated their issues, testimonies, and just shared anything, was by being anonymous. Everyone has a way, but I personally consider the anonymous way to be kind of cowardly, and smells too much like the the way things were/are done in the scam that I was a part of. There is always “leading brothers, with no name attached” , there is political correctness at the highest level, there is always “don’t say that, don’t be that way, “we are all about “onness”, let’s just all get together and sing a kumbaya. I really don’t consider that way to be a way of change, or a way to bigger and better things. You mentioned in one of the post earlier, about the man that stood for something that they believed, can you imagine if they where just anonymous sources laying out their lives and standing for something without disclosing who they are? Don’t get me wrong, I feel for people who have been through the rigger, and as the verses that I mentioned above state, one would be a fool to not sit there and calculate the costs that one would incur do so with your identity attached to it. That is my real name, and they can say whatever they like! I have no fear or will get offended at their proclamations! I have been freed from all that nonsense of seeing the destruction of people and just looking the other way, or as I was told many times “just pray about it brother”, “just let the Lord take care of it”. Did the children of Israel upon being saved from their captivity in Egypt, sat in the dessert and just chanted the name a billion times with hope that God would just do everything for them, or they actually had to go and while trusting Him to stand with them, fight for what they got, even though it was promised to them? Does the farmer sit and prays in his house for a great harvest, but never goes out and plows the field, plants the seed, and water it for growth, trusting God that it will all be done for Him? What kind of harvest should he expect? You all know the answer for that. So as much as it pains me to say this, God is not anonymous, and if we are His children we shouldn’t be also! We need to put on the bootstraps, and the full armor, and go out and do what His disciples got to do, even if it cost you everything and more! After all, what’s there to be attached to? It will all burn one day! There is no money, no gold or silver that can replace what He gave us! I say one thing before I end: that God has to be, and must be trusted in all His promises and that’s the only way! I would equate the scam that is perpetrated on these people who refuse to listen, check, double check, and even consider to see facts that are still available for anyone that’s willing to put their time, prayer, and asking Him to lead you unto the right path, to a person that went online shopping for a very expensive luxury car. Guess what, he got a great deal on the brand new Bugatti. Paid for it, the payment went out, and the person was really happy about it. They were so happy about the deal that they got, that they didn’t even read the fine print , it just unnecessary, when you get such a great deal! Well, after some time they got the car, and they park it right in the middle of their living room. And today all the do is just sit there and look at it, and just say,”Wow, what a Bugatti”, “Bugatti, can you believe that I got such a great deal? They invite people over and brag, and gush about it! They even have meetings around it! You got to, how can you not when the deal was sooooo sweeeeet!!! But then one day he invited one of his best friends over for one of those meetings, and a man took the owner to the side and asked him, “Hey, that’s a nice deal you got there on that car, you got a great deal! I just have two questions for you: 1. Why such a great car, with such power and might is parked in the middle of your living room, and not outside, why you not driving it in the fast lane? 2. Why don’t you ever let anyone inside the car, to sit in it, and maybe start it, smell the burning of that high octane fuel, hear the roar of that engine? And the man just got all shy and uncomfortable. He said “I can’t discuss this with you at this time, maybe another time.”, and said, “why don’t we just go over there where everyone at and just enjoy the time, look at it, its a beast!” But after the whole this was over, and everyone left the meeting, and the man was left to himself, he just couldn’t find a place or room in his house to find a peace about those questions. And after considerable time thinking about it, he called back his friend and said the following, with tear running down his face: “I got SCAMMED! I feel ashamed to even tell people! They took everything from me, all my money, my bank account is empty, and they just keep calling me all the time, saying that if I ever say anything to anyone, they will come after me! And about the car by the way, its just a shell, they gutted it! There is no engine, no electrical system, even the interior is fake, spray painted plastic! If you sit in it, it will all fall apart, I can’t even open the door, and I have no keys! I fail to read the fine print! I never researched it, never thought someone would do that to me, I trusted a man!” And his friend said to him: “You need to share this with people, even if they will make fun of you, even if they all abandon you, because you are broke and you lied to them about how great this thing is! And you you need to do that immediately, don’t wait another day, because the scammers that did that to you, they are out there looking for their next victim! It’s no longer about you, its not about your feelings and your comfort. Look out for others, and maybe one day they will get cut. You will get back what was taken from you, and more!” After considering everything that he was told, and understanding that what he is to do, he went out and told people about what happened. Most, had their usual laugh at him. Some, took notice. But there was a couple of people who took him aside and said, “we had it happen to us, we were just too embarrased to even say something, let alone invite someone over to the house and brag about it!”. And then came another man and said, “I know the scammer personally, he is related to me, very close family member, he has been doing this for a very long time. He just uses the name Bugatti to attract people, its not even the Bugatti that is real, he makes them out of junk cars in his back yard, and just sits and waits for a naive person to bite, hook, line and sinker, and hopefully the boat anchor too, so that one would never come out of the water to tell anyone about it. I will help you with your loss he said, “we will go to the real Bugatti owner, and tell him about what is going on here, and hopefully he will do something about it! We cannot do this by ourselves, the man got too many people that run this operation! All we have to do is just notify the Real Owner! He will deal with it!” I hope that this will help someone understand that sometimes its not all about the comforts that we are so accustomed to enjoy, its not about peace and tranquility that is so prevalent and disabling, its about a bigger picture! And as this quote that I read a while ago says: “The greatest man in history is Jesus. He had no servants, yet they called Him Master. He had no degree, yet the called Him Teacher. He had no medicines, yet they called Him Healer. He had no army, yet kings feared Him. He won no military battles, yet he conquered the world. He committed no crime, yet they crucified Him. He was buried in the tomb, but yet He lives today” Thats the Kind of Bugatti we have, we just need to drive it! Own it! Live it! With Him All things are possible. God Bless you all! Paul Vusik.

11-14-2021, 04:58 PM	#10
Nell Admin/Moderator Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 2,100	Re: A different Perspective! Paul, I understand your position. It is your freedom to walk in the path as you are led by the Lord, as we each walk before him the best we know how. Some may be motivated by fear, or cowardice…as you say. Some may be motivated by obedience to his voice. Regardless, we all one day may openly confront the LC leadership. My personal desire is to speak as led by the spirit, and pray that they are ready to hear. Nell

12-18-2021, 05:25 PM	#12
Paul Vusik Member Join Date: Oct 2021 Posts: 196	Re: A different Perspective! Difference between satanic deception vs THE TRUTH!!! “When Christ was on earth He referred to the church two times—in Matthew 16 and Matthew 18. In the first instance, He referred to the universal church, and in the second instance, He referred to the local church. In speaking of the authority of the local church, He said, "If he refuses to hear the church also, let him be to you just like the Gentile and the tax collector" (18:17). This verse shows us that the authority of the church is derived from its representation of Christ. Christ has given His authority to the church and authorized the church to execute His will on earth. The Bible shows us that there are three ways in which a person can receive guidance from God: (1) God's Word—the Bible, (2) the indwelling Holy Spirit, and (3) the church in a locality. The third line is the most important line. The leading of the Bible and the Spirit are individual in nature, but the leading of the local church is corporate in nature. The local church, being the local expression of the Body of Christ, has the headship of Christ and, therefore, can know the mind of Christ, which is always communicated to His Body. The local church declares the headship of Christ. "Truly I say to you, Whatever you bind on the earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on the earth shall have been loosed in heaven" (v. 18). A person who sees the Body seeks fellowship and accepts the leading of the church. Often the decision of a church in a rural area is proven to be better than the decision of a church in the city. Such a decision does not originate from man's ability or wisdom but from the corporate seeking in one accord. In order to know God's will and His way, it is not enough for us to read the Bible or pray by ourselves. We have to be in the fellowship of the local church, live the Body life, and follow God's leading in the Body.” (https://www.ministrybooks.org/books.cfm?n) VS Galatians 4:22-31 22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. 24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. 25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. 26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. 27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband. 28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. 29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. 30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. 31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free. Galatians 5:1-2 1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. 2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. CONCLUSION: According to THE TLR, we should all throw away our BIBLES, (I would actually agree with throwing away that corrupted recovery junk, good for kindling), forget about following the leading of the Holy Spirit, (and recieve a spirit of recovery's jesus), AND SUBMIT YOURSELVES TO THE MODERN DAY JUDAIZERS AND TLR HIGH PRIESTS!!!! THANK GOD FOR MY LORD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST, AND THE FREEDOM AND LIBERTY IN HIM!!!

12-19-2021, 10:58 AM	#13
Robert Member Join Date: Dec 2020 Posts: 278	Re: A different Perspective! [QUOTE=Paul Vusik;101554]The Bible shows us that there are three ways in which a person can receive guidance from God: (1) God's Word—the Bible, (2) the indwelling Holy Spirit, and (3) the church in a locality. The third line is the most important line. The leading of the Bible and the Spirit are individual in nature, but the leading of the local church is corporate in nature. The local church, being the local expression of the Body of Christ, has the headship of Christ and, therefore, can know the mind of Christ, which is always communicated to His Body. The local church declares the headship of Christ. "Truly I say to you, Whatever you bind on the earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on the earth shall have been loosed in heaven" (v. 18). A person who sees the Body seeks fellowship and accepts the leading of the church. Often the decision of a church in a rural area is proven to be better than the decision of a church in the city. Such a decision does not originate from man's ability or wisdom but from the corporate seeking in one accord. In order to know God's will and His way, it is not enough for us to read the Bible or pray by ourselves. We have to be in the fellowship of the local church, live the Body life, and follow God's leading in the Body.” (https://www.ministrybooks.org/books.cfm?n) I am glad for Your sharing, Paul! I was always wondering what role has group of saved people in this world and if this is important for God to have any expression. Answer is very simple. It is enough to reject all teachings and take a look in Bible what says about it. What WN and WL did is called "stretching the truth"... What is "Body life"? What is "God's leading in the Body"? Lier, lier, pants on fire... Two first points are MOST IMPORTANT! If not personal relationship with God, He would not send so many prophets with warnings to His people. There is no such a corporate hearing or receiving. We can bring some problem and then others can pray and receive the same answer from Holly Spirit. Last quoted words was way to establish group of people easy to manipulate and control. Another option is, that he was honest and just overemphesized matter of Body. Any way, his teaching was not based on Bible. I can see only certain people who was obey to God. There is only individual responsibility for our own acts. Of course there will be result of oneness in Spirit shown in mutual love among saints. But never in reversed way. We should never be focused on building anything. Verse, verses, and one more time verses. I have to reverse that false words in correct one: In order to know God's will and His way, it is ENOUGH for us to read the Bible or pray by ourselves. Then God will lead us to others.

12-19-2021, 01:34 PM	#14
Paul Vusik Member Join Date: Oct 2021 Posts: 196	Re: A different Perspective! (2) Difference between satanic deception vs THE TRUTH!!! "In order to accomplish His purpose, God already did three great things. The first thing is that God created man. He created man in His image and according to His likeness (Gen. 1:26). God created man not in the image of the birds or in the image of the beasts but in the image of God. What God created was man, but what came out was God. Today we are not only man; we are also God. We are man yet God. Likewise, today God is not only God; He is also man. He is God yet man. As a result, both God and man, both man and God, are completely alike and become a matching couple. How wonderful this is!" https://www.ministrybooks.org/books.cfm?n HAVE WE NOT HEARD THAT BEFORE SOMEWHERE??? Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? 2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. 4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. VS Gen 1:27 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. GOD DID NOT MAKE A MISTAKE WHILE TRYING TO CREATE A MAN, HE CREATED A MINI GOD. PLAIN AND SIMPLE. Ephesians 4:22-25 22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; 23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; 24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. 25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another. Col 3:8-11 8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. 9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; 10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: 11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all. 2 Cor 5-17-21 17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. 21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. NETHER DO WE BECOME GOD AT ANY POINT OF OUR EXISTENCE!!! CONCLUSION. THE WORD OF GOD IS CLEAR AND SIMPLE. YOU ETHER LISTEN TO THE SERPENT AND HIS SERVANTS, OR READ AND BELIEVE GOD, AND THE WORD OF GOD! THEREFORE, IF ANYONE CAN PUT 2+2 TOGETHER, YOU KNOW WHERE AND HOW THE WHOLE TLR SYSTEM IS BUILD. PLEASE, READ THE WORD OF GOD AND DON'T FALL FOR THE SAME LIE! IF YOU ARE A PERSON OF ANY AGE, WHETHER YOU ARE A BELIEVER OR NOT, AND ARE BEING RECRUITED BY THIS SCAM, I BEG YOU CRY OUT TO REAL GOD, REAL JESUS, AND STAY OUT OF THIS SCAM BY A MILLION MILES!!!