What about Inner Life?

Sons to Glory! · 11-01-2021, 12:41 PM

I've been thinking about this topic for months now, ever since our discussions in a few threads earlier this year (e.g., the "Daily Devotional Inspirations" and "Examining LC Spinoffs" threads). And the thread Trapped recently started, "Is God a Trinity?" actually inspired me to start this thread, because I saw that we on here could have a civil discussion around certain topics after all!

May the Lord give us grace and light for this topic as well.

Here’s some of my background, which should give you a view into where I’m coming from. As many of you know, I was led to the LC very early in my adult Christian life (age 18), and my walk with the Lord was therefore greatly influenced by that exposure. However, even before coming to the LC the Lord spoke to me clearly through the inner Anointing on various occasions. For instance, He spoke to me that I was dead and that I had no need of man teaching me outwardly, as He would speak to me inwardly. (1 John 2:27) At that time, I was too young and inexperienced in the word to even know that these truths were in scripture! He also spoke inexplicably to me then that He was, “the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.” This let me know that He was the God of the Bible – again, I don’t remember that I’d ever heard this to that point (definitely never read it up to then). And then He put this specific longing in me and I prayed, “Lord, you have to take me to be with those who love you like I do!”

So even before coming to the LC, I had had experiences of His inner life and speaking. And I know, that I know, that I know that He was speaking to me directly and inwardly. His direct speaking and Anointing in me at that time was exceedingly wonderful!

Then I was led, in one week’s time (in 1974), across the country to miraculously “find” the LC in Berkeley (that’s a wonderful story for another time). There I found many other crazy lovers of Jesus. My experience of the LC for the next three years was a tumultuous one of leaving and coming back, due mainly to my immaturity and still having a love for the world’s things. Upon returning to Ohio (where I was from), I got married and started fellowshipping with a couple LC churches there, eventually winding up in Columbus with that LC. That lasted until 1988, when I got a job out west and we moved. The LC in Columbus was not as tightly in the LSM orbit as many other churches were, and was perhaps not as dogmatically focused on only Watchman Nee and Witness Lee authority. And I see it as sovereign of the Lord that He led us away from the LC in 1988. (of course, the Columbus group had a huge and rather violent split not too long after that). So, I think He preserved us in many ways, from much of the so-called “dirty LC bathwater.”

To some, the “dirty LC bathwater” may include their teachings and perhaps overemphasis regarding the inner life. That is, an unhealthy focus on the human spirit and spiritual things, often to the expense of the outward manifestations of Christian life and good works. I think there is some merit to this . . . (and one evidence of this could be said the be Lee’s disdain for the book of James).

After about ten years of minimal fellowship with any Christians (though I still prayed and called on the Lord’s name from time to time during these years), He led me to the fellowship here in Scottsdale. The group here is very focused on “Christ in you, the hope of glory,” and this is even written predominately on the inside front wall. Again, I convey this to give a background of where I am coming from. And my walk with God continues to be one where I see and greatly appreciate His Spirit operating in and through me and through those He’s placed me with.

So here’s the question: How much do you see the inner-life of Christ as being central to the Christian life? Personally, I see it as the focus of the New Covenant. But this is not to say that I think we should not be doing outward things. In fact, I’ve actually gained a good appreciation for the book of James in the last few years! I see much of what James is speaking about as not being possible without His moving in me to supply me to do those things. This is just like all the things Jesus spoke about in Mathew 5:1-12 (the “Beatitudes”) – does man have it in himself to do these things from the heart that Jesus spoke of? I don’t believe so, but through His indwelling and suppling us they are all possible.

Well, I must admit this has been a much longer opening post than I expected to do, but as I got to writing, it just came out, and I think some personal background is good to present here. I am interested in how important others’ view the working of the indwelling, inner life of Christ is, and how that corresponds with the more outward manifestations of good works – and I believe we children of the Most High can have a fruitful discussion around this. Thanks in advance for sharing your thoughts, scriptures and experience!

Trapped · 11-01-2021, 03:25 PM

What does "inner life" mean to you? What do you mean when you use that phrase?

What is some Scripture that comes to mind regarding inner life? You mentioned 1 John 2:27, which is a good one:

20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.
21 I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth.
22 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son.
23 No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
24 As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father.
25 And this is what he promised us—eternal life.
26 I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray.
27 As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.

Where does the Bible say (or indicate or imply is good enough) that we have "the life of Christ" in us, i.e. what verses do you have in mind when you say that?

What are some verses that say or imply that "His life is working in us"? (I think what I mean here is, is there really the thought in the Bible that His life is working, as a separately identifiable concept than just He is working?)

I'm not arguing for or against; I just want to start with Scripture so we have a common understanding of what we are talking about!

Trapped

HERn · 11-01-2021, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trapped

What does "inner life" mean to you? What do you mean when you use that phrase?

What is some Scripture that comes to mind regarding inner life? You mentioned 1 John 2:27, which is a good one:

20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.
21 I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth.
22 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son.
23 No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
24 As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father.
25 And this is what he promised us—eternal life.
26 I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray.
27 As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.

Where does the Bible say (or indicate or imply is good enough) that we have "the life of Christ" in us, i.e. what verses do you have in mind when you say that?

What are some verses that say or imply that "His life is working in us"? (I think what I mean here is, is there really the thought in the Bible that His life is working, as a separately identifiable concept than just He is working?)

I'm not arguing for or against; I just want to start with Scripture so we have a common understanding of what we are talking about!

Trapped

I like your approach Trapped; scripture first, then opinions.

Trapped · 11-01-2021, 10:10 PM

1 John 2:18-27
18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.
19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.
20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.
21 I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth.
22 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son.
23 No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
24 As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father.
25 And this is what he promised us—eternal life.
26 I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray.
27 As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.

As a church kid who grew up in the LC and believed it all for decades, I do have the problems StG mentioned regarding the baby/bathwater with the inner life stuff, but I recognize that "the anointing" is a genuine concept in the Bible, so I'm trying to scoop the baby out here, and learn what the Bible says the anointing is.

Regarding the anointing in 1 John 2, I just looked the Greek word up, and learned two minutes ago that this chapter is the only place in the New Testament this word chrisma (anointing) is used. These three instances are it. This is the entire context we have.

So I guess another question I have is......do we see evidence here in this passage for "anointing" to be tantamount to "leading" as I often seem to see it referred to? I'll be honest.....I don't see that here.

Or does it have to do more with knowing the truth based on what we "have heard from the beginning"?

("from the beginning" meaning, of course, what the apostles taught that we now see in the NT....not necessarily whatever we each individually heard first in our lives, which for me in the LC would be lies, lies, and more lies)?

This passage seems more to be about discerning of false teachers (or, anyone opposed to Christ, or denying that Christ is the Messiah) and the anointing we received holding us steadfast to the truth of the apostles teaching. Maybe. Just trying to summarize what I'm reading here.

??

Trapped

Robert · 11-01-2021, 10:45 PM

Col 1:27

Will be next question: Dead or alive?

Robert · 11-01-2021, 11:22 PM

1 John 2:14.
Who is Word of God?
Tool called "implication" can be use in good or wrong way.
If You read John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
You see "implication" or direct meaning?
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2The same was in the beginning with God.

3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
You can always put in doubt what or which Word.

Personally I do not have problem with this:
God is Word, Word is God. In Him was zoe ( not bios, not psyche) divine live.
John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life (zoe, divine life): no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

This is not implication any more but connection all the time.
1 John 4:4
Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is He that is in you, than he that is in the world.

So who is in us that Greater one?
27But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

28And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.[COLOR="blue"][COLOR="blue"][COLOR="blue"][COLOR="Black"]
So quiet good mixture! What is anointing? Person only can teach. Is it Word? Is it Truth? Is it Spirit?Is it Christ? Is it God? Is it light in us?
Wow! So many things! How this is possible to fit all of them in us?
And actually where they abide?

Ohio · 11-02-2021, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trapped

As a church kid who grew up in the LC and believed it all for decades, I do have the problems StG mentioned regarding the baby/bathwater with the inner life stuff, but I recognize that "the anointing" is a genuine concept in the Bible, so I'm trying to scoop the baby out here, and learn what the Bible says the anointing is.

Regarding the anointing in 1 John 2, I just looked the Greek word up, and learned two minutes ago that this chapter is the only place in the New Testament this word chrisma (anointing) is used. These three instances are it. This is the entire context we have.

So I guess another question I have is......do we see evidence here in this passage for "anointing" to be tantamount to "leading" as I often seem to see it referred to? I'll be honest.....I don't see that here.

The New Testament is filled with verses about God/Father/Christ/Spirit in us or dwelling in us. The "anointing" teaching us is just one aspect of "God in us." I think the context of I John is corrective in nature, with a background of misconceptions and errors that had affected the church of God. In this regard, John was hyperbolic here, saying "you don't need anyone to teach you." Obviously the readers needed Apostle John to *teach* them, or his letter would never have been written.

The Epistle begins with, "That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, ... " John definitely connected the opening of this circular epistle with his gospel. His goal was to restore the church to their faith beginnings, just as Paul did with the Galatians.

So, I now understand the anointing in this context -- the One we should ultimately learn from is the same One we received for eternal life, and all the other teachers in our lives that may be leading us astray should be rejected.

Here is one example of the failures I had in the LC, on my "learning" journey. After one year in the LC, I was thrust into chaos -- the so-called "young Galileans" movement of WL, sending all the young peope to the campus. So much noise and confusion. I was specifically instructed, "You are in the Lord's army, and you will be told where to move to." I have often posted that my biggest failure was trusting in these people way too much. We all desperately needed I John 2.27 at that time.

OBW · 11-08-2021, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ohio

. . . The "anointing" teaching us is just one aspect of "God in us." I think the context of I John is corrective in nature, with a background of misconceptions and errors that had affected the church of God. In this regard, John was hyperbolic here, saying "you don't need anyone to teach you." Obviously the readers needed Apostle John to *teach* them, or his letter would never have been written.

Just started reading this thread and your response to this issue really makes a point. Yes, John pointed them back to what they did, or at least should, already know. But they weren't getting there themselves. They needed help. So this is not a support for a "me, my bible, and the Holy Spirit" kind of position (not what you said). We need direction in our learning. Not isolation.

Sons to Glory! · 11-02-2021, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trapped

What does "inner life" mean to you? What do you mean when you use that phrase?

What are some verses that say or imply that "His life is working in us"? (I think what I mean here is, is there really the thought in the Bible that His life is working, as a separately identifiable concept than just He is working?)

I'm not arguing for or against; I just want to start with Scripture so we have a common understanding of what we are talking about!

Trapped

Yes, starting with scripture is good!

One that comes to mind is Phil 2:13 "For it is God who works in you to will and to act on behalf of His good purpose.…"

As Ohio said, "The New Testament is filled with verses about God/Father/Christ/Spirit in us or dwelling in us." In fact, this is the central theme, right? We can't do it, so Christ came to #1 redeem us, and #2 to fill us. "I am come that they might have (zoe) life." What life? His life, and His inner-life supplies us to do the good works we can't do on our own.

John 15 is about the life that is in the vine, and this life is conveyed to the branches if they remain attached to the vine. Without this, no fruit . . . nothing. "Apart from me you can do nothing.' (v.5)

His words are "Spirit and life." (John 6:63) What happens when the living word is accepted into a person? It bears fruit. The person is born-again of the Spirit. "That which is born of Spirit, spirit is." (John 3:6) So a man becomes living, born of God.

Hundreds of verses could be cited on this topic, but to keep it simple, that's a start.

Sons to Glory! · 11-03-2021, 10:33 AM

This morning some other verse came to me to start this off:

"I am come that they might have life" John 10:10

"The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life." 1 John 5:12 NASB

“I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me" Gal 2:20

"When Christ, who is our life, shall be manifested, then shall ye also with him be manifested in glory" Col 3:4

Trapped · 11-03-2021, 01:56 PM

I guess what I'm trying to figure out is when, for example, Jesus says "I have come that they may have life"......are we sure it's HIS life versus eternal life?

I know "zoe" is often taught as "the uncreated eternal life of God".....but I am not 100% sure myself that's true.

When we see "eternal life" in the Bible.....it's not always just "zoe". It's often "aionios zoe". i.e., it actually has the adjective "eternal" in front of it.

There are instances where "zoe" on its own even means standard, human, mortal, fleeting, physical life, and not "the uncreated life of God".

For example:

Luke 16:25
"But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime [zoe] you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony.

1 Corinthians 15:19
If only for this life [zoe] we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.

Philippians 1:20
I eagerly expect and hope that I will in no way be ashamed, but will have sufficient courage so that now as always Christ will be exalted in my body, whether by life [zoe] or by death.

James 4:14
Why, you do not even know what will happen tomorrow. What is your life [zoe]? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes.

"Zoe" there is most definitely not the life of Christ, or the eternal uncreated life of God. So I'm not sure that when we see "zoe" we can automatically say "God's life!".

I can't get away from Adam and Eve having access to the tree of life in the garden of Eden. That tree of life is what was said to allow them to live forever, and that tree of life is what we see again in Revelation.....presumably because Christ paid our debt and we are allowed access to it again. In John 10:10 when Jesus says, "I have come that they may have life"....this is what I assume is meant - He takes the punishment for our sins so we can regain access to the tree of life and thus life forever.

I am just struggling to see evidence in Scripture for the thought of "His life does xyz". It disembodies Christ from His own life and it makes it sound like His life has a separate mind of it's own. Is there biblical evidence for "Christ's life doing something" versus just "Christ doing something"?

Trapped

Bible-believer · 11-04-2021, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trapped

I guess what I'm trying to figure out is when, for example, Jesus says "I have come that they may have life"......are we sure it's HIS life versus eternal life? I know "zoe" is often taught as "the uncreated eternal life of God".....but I am not 100% sure myself that's true. When we see "eternal life" in the Bible.....it's not always just "zoe". It's often "aionios zoe". i.e., it actually has the adjective "eternal" in front of it. There are instances where "zoe" on its own even means standard, human, mortal, fleeting, physical life, and not "the uncreated life of God".

I might misunderstand your passage. But I want to share my understanding.
In John 10:10, Jesus said he came so that they might have life and have it more abundantly.
Life in the verse includes two meanings:
1. the eternal life after the new birth.
2. the way of living a life after the new birth.
In John 10, Jesus said, "I am the door." So by him, we can be saved and enter into eternal life. (V.9)
"I am the good shepherd." So He gives his life for his sheep. His sheep have His life(eternal life) and live a life for Him. (the way of life).
Spiritually, John 10:10 goes with Rom. 8:28–39, 2 Cor. 9:8, Phil. 4:13,19,Heb. 13:5–6, 1Cor. 1:6, and 1 John 3:1–3. After the "New Birth," Christians get not only eternal life but a better life here on the earth than he deserves or expects. It is not just the “longevity.” It is the "way(quality)" of living that makes it "exceeding abundantly above all." (Eph.3:20).
(I don't know Greek, and I don't refer to Greek when reading the Bible. However, I can understand the scriptures in the context most of the time.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trapped

I can't get away from Adam and Eve having access to the tree of life in the garden of Eden. That tree of life is what was said to allow them to live forever, and that tree of life is what we see again in Revelation.....presumably because Christ paid our debt and we are allowed access to it again. In John 10:10 when Jesus says, "I have come that they may have life"....this is what I assume is meant - He takes the punishment for our sins so we can regain access to the tree of life and thus life forever.

Adam and Eve did have the chance of accessing the tree of life, but they chose to eat the forbidden one first. They fell, and God expelled them out of Eden before they had a chance to get the tree of life. God even placed Cherubims to prevent them from getting back in.
And Yes, the tree of life is allowed them to gain eternal life. But we, Christians, don't need the tree of life to get eternal life, for the "eternal Spirit" indwells in us the moment when we are saved, and we sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption. Adam and Eve need the tree of life because they don’t have what we have.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trapped

I am just struggling to see evidence in Scripture for the thought of "His life does xyz". It disembodies Christ from His own life and it makes it sound like His life has a separate mind of it's own. Is there biblical evidence for "Christ's life doing something" versus just "Christ doing something"?

To me, it sounds like a philosophical question, and I avoid it.
Can we really separate "Christ's life" from "Christ?" Can we separate "Trapped's posts" from "Trapped?" Obviously, I am not a philosopher at all.

-------
John 14:6, Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life." Three absolutes; no indefinite articles.
All LIFE, physical or spiritual, comes from “THE LIFE.” ( Col. 1:13–17; John 1:1–4; and Rev. 1:8.)
----------
I interpret STG's "inner life" as the way a Christian lives his life after being saved, walking not after the flesh but after the Spirit. In other words, Christians live a life under the law of the Spirit of life. And eventually, we are all conformed to the image of the Son of God.

Sons to Glory! · 11-06-2021, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trapped

I am just struggling to see evidence in Scripture for the thought of "His life does xyz". It disembodies Christ from His own life and it makes it sound like His life has a separate mind of it's own. Is there biblical evidence for "Christ's life doing something" versus just "Christ doing something"?

Trapped

I read these verses in the Daily Light* devotional this morning and thought to post - does this help address your question?

When Christ who is our life appears, then we will appear with Him in glory.
Colossians 3:4

I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, shall live.
John 11:25

God has given us eternal life and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who has not the Son of God does not have the life.
1 John 5:11-12

*Daily Light is a wonderful daily devotional of just scripture. Written by Samuel Bagster in 1875 and edited by Anne Graham Lotz

OBW · 11-08-2021, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trapped

I guess what I'm trying to figure out is when, for example, Jesus says "I have come that they may have life"......are we sure it's HIS life versus eternal life?

I know "zoe" is often taught as "the uncreated eternal life of God".....but I am not 100% sure myself that's true. . . .

Not dismissing the rest of your post. But it does mainly follow this line of thinking.

In past studies, I have found that the Greek word "zoe" is not simply God's life. It is mostly used as something like the fullness of life, or all of life. Not just biological or psychological life. More like what they advertise in beer commercials. Or VRBO, cruise ship, luxury car, etc., commercials. I realize that these are "fallen," but they make a point. It is more about the actual or perceived quality of life. Surely if you have God's life you should have a more robust quality of life, even if it is not like being in a luxury car with Rolex on your arm, crusing a beautiful shoreline.

And when you start talking to people who are in need — spiritual, physical, emotional, etc. — they might agree that changing one's perspective on what is still wrong with this life is an improvement in the quality of life. I'm not diminishing the message of the gospel. I am simply pointing to the fact that even those worldy things that provide "life" eventually fail in some way. But the solid rock that is Christ does not fail.

So zoe is best fulfilled through the life of Christ. But that does not diminish or alter the broader aspects of the word.

Robert · 11-01-2021, 03:30 PM

Topic is good, but testimony better...

I am glad and recalling also my first years experience.
Inner life... it is hard to imagine visible fruits without invisible juice inside tree.
May be later I will continue.
Greetings Sons of Glory!

11-13-2021, 09:23 AM

That's odd, I thought the central thrust of the gospel was...

...wait for it...

The Kingdom!
The kingdom of God ! ! ! (Mark 1: 14 - 15, Matthew 1: 17)

I know that crucial matters like love and good works are important, and I do not mean to diminish them, but they are important in the same way that it would be vital -if you were an earthly king, to take an example- that your heir, and the heir to your throne, learn in his infancy how to wall and talk, and read and write, handle a sword or ride a horse, et cetera, until the time he should succeed to the throne of his father's kingdom.

I mean, come on, once you've received all your awesome rewards for all the good works you've done and the love you've shown over the course of your brief life, then what next? What next for the following billion years or so?

Well, I hope you're all good at playing the hard or an electric guitar, or something...

... my two shekels worth...

11-01-2021, 10:10 PM	#4
Trapped Member Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 1,523	Re: What about Inner Life? 1 John 2:18-27 18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us. 20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth. 21 I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth. 22 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son. 23 No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also. 24 As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is what he promised us—eternal life. 26 I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. 27 As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him. As a church kid who grew up in the LC and believed it all for decades, I do have the problems StG mentioned regarding the baby/bathwater with the inner life stuff, but I recognize that "the anointing" is a genuine concept in the Bible, so I'm trying to scoop the baby out here, and learn what the Bible says the anointing is. Regarding the anointing in 1 John 2, I just looked the Greek word up, and learned two minutes ago that this chapter is the only place in the New Testament this word chrisma (anointing) is used. These three instances are it. This is the entire context we have. So I guess another question I have is......do we see evidence here in this passage for "anointing" to be tantamount to "leading" as I often seem to see it referred to? I'll be honest.....I don't see that here. Or does it have to do more with knowing the truth based on what we "have heard from the beginning"? ("from the beginning" meaning, of course, what the apostles taught that we now see in the NT....not necessarily whatever we each individually heard first in our lives, which for me in the LC would be lies, lies, and more lies)? This passage seems more to be about discerning of false teachers (or, anyone opposed to Christ, or denying that Christ is the Messiah) and the anointing we received holding us steadfast to the truth of the apostles teaching. Maybe. Just trying to summarize what I'm reading here. ?? Trapped

11-01-2021, 10:45 PM	#5
Robert Member Join Date: Dec 2020 Posts: 278	Re: What about Inner Life? Col 1:27 Will be next question: Dead or alive?

11-01-2021, 11:22 PM	#6
Robert Member Join Date: Dec 2020 Posts: 278	Re: What about Inner Life? 1 John 2:14. Who is Word of God? Tool called "implication" can be use in good or wrong way. If You read John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. You see "implication" or direct meaning? 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4In him was life; and the life was the light of men. You can always put in doubt what or which Word. Personally I do not have problem with this: God is Word, Word is God. In Him was zoe ( not bios, not psyche) divine live. John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life (zoe, divine life): no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. This is not implication any more but connection all the time. 1 John 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is He that is in you, than he that is in the world. So who is in us that Greater one? 27But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. 28And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.[COLOR="blue"][COLOR="blue"][COLOR="blue"][COLOR="Black"] So quiet good mixture! What is anointing? Person only can teach. Is it Word? Is it Truth? Is it Spirit?Is it Christ? Is it God? Is it light in us? Wow! So many things! How this is possible to fit all of them in us? And actually where they abide?

11-03-2021, 10:33 AM	#10
Sons to Glory! Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Scottsdale, AZ Posts: 2,617	Re: What about Inner Life? This morning some other verse came to me to start this off: "I am come that they might have life" John 10:10 "The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life." 1 John 5:12 NASB “I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me" Gal 2:20 "When Christ, who is our life, shall be manifested, then shall ye also with him be manifested in glory" Col 3:4 __________________ LC Berkeley 70s; LC Columbus OH 80s; An Ekklesia in Scottsdale 98-now Praise the Lord - HE'S GOT THIS!

11-03-2021, 01:56 PM	#11
Trapped Member Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 1,523	Re: What about Inner Life? I guess what I'm trying to figure out is when, for example, Jesus says "I have come that they may have life"......are we sure it's HIS life versus eternal life? I know "zoe" is often taught as "the uncreated eternal life of God".....but I am not 100% sure myself that's true. When we see "eternal life" in the Bible.....it's not always just "zoe". It's often "aionios zoe". i.e., it actually has the adjective "eternal" in front of it. There are instances where "zoe" on its own even means standard, human, mortal, fleeting, physical life, and not "the uncreated life of God". For example: Luke 16:25 "But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime [zoe] you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 1 Corinthians 15:19 If only for this life [zoe] we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied. Philippians 1:20 I eagerly expect and hope that I will in no way be ashamed, but will have sufficient courage so that now as always Christ will be exalted in my body, whether by life [zoe] or by death. James 4:14 Why, you do not even know what will happen tomorrow. What is your life [zoe]? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes. "Zoe" there is most definitely not the life of Christ, or the eternal uncreated life of God. So I'm not sure that when we see "zoe" we can automatically say "God's life!". I can't get away from Adam and Eve having access to the tree of life in the garden of Eden. That tree of life is what was said to allow them to live forever, and that tree of life is what we see again in Revelation.....presumably because Christ paid our debt and we are allowed access to it again. In John 10:10 when Jesus says, "I have come that they may have life"....this is what I assume is meant - He takes the punishment for our sins so we can regain access to the tree of life and thus life forever. I am just struggling to see evidence in Scripture for the thought of "His life does xyz". It disembodies Christ from His own life and it makes it sound like His life has a separate mind of it's own. Is there biblical evidence for "Christ's life doing something" versus just "Christ doing something"? Trapped

11-01-2021, 12:41 PM	#1
Sons to Glory! Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Scottsdale, AZ Posts: 2,617	What about Inner Life? I've been thinking about this topic for months now, ever since our discussions in a few threads earlier this year (e.g., the "Daily Devotional Inspirations" and "Examining LC Spinoffs" threads). And the thread Trapped recently started, "Is God a Trinity?" actually inspired me to start this thread, because I saw that we on here could have a civil discussion around certain topics after all! May the Lord give us grace and light for this topic as well. Here’s some of my background, which should give you a view into where I’m coming from. As many of you know, I was led to the LC very early in my adult Christian life (age 18), and my walk with the Lord was therefore greatly influenced by that exposure. However, even before coming to the LC the Lord spoke to me clearly through the inner Anointing on various occasions. For instance, He spoke to me that I was dead and that I had no need of man teaching me outwardly, as He would speak to me inwardly. (1 John 2:27) At that time, I was too young and inexperienced in the word to even know that these truths were in scripture! He also spoke inexplicably to me then that He was, “the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.” This let me know that He was the God of the Bible – again, I don’t remember that I’d ever heard this to that point (definitely never read it up to then). And then He put this specific longing in me and I prayed, “Lord, you have to take me to be with those who love you like I do!” So even before coming to the LC, I had had experiences of His inner life and speaking. And I know, that I know, that I know that He was speaking to me directly and inwardly. His direct speaking and Anointing in me at that time was exceedingly wonderful! Then I was led, in one week’s time (in 1974), across the country to miraculously “find” the LC in Berkeley (that’s a wonderful story for another time). There I found many other crazy lovers of Jesus. My experience of the LC for the next three years was a tumultuous one of leaving and coming back, due mainly to my immaturity and still having a love for the world’s things. Upon returning to Ohio (where I was from), I got married and started fellowshipping with a couple LC churches there, eventually winding up in Columbus with that LC. That lasted until 1988, when I got a job out west and we moved. The LC in Columbus was not as tightly in the LSM orbit as many other churches were, and was perhaps not as dogmatically focused on only Watchman Nee and Witness Lee authority. And I see it as sovereign of the Lord that He led us away from the LC in 1988. (of course, the Columbus group had a huge and rather violent split not too long after that). So, I think He preserved us in many ways, from much of the so-called “dirty LC bathwater.” To some, the “dirty LC bathwater” may include their teachings and perhaps overemphasis regarding the inner life. That is, an unhealthy focus on the human spirit and spiritual things, often to the expense of the outward manifestations of Christian life and good works. I think there is some merit to this . . . (and one evidence of this could be said the be Lee’s disdain for the book of James). After about ten years of minimal fellowship with any Christians (though I still prayed and called on the Lord’s name from time to time during these years), He led me to the fellowship here in Scottsdale. The group here is very focused on “Christ in you, the hope of glory,” and this is even written predominately on the inside front wall. Again, I convey this to give a background of where I am coming from. And my walk with God continues to be one where I see and greatly appreciate His Spirit operating in and through me and through those He’s placed me with. So here’s the question: How much do you see the inner-life of Christ as being central to the Christian life? Personally, I see it as the focus of the New Covenant. But this is not to say that I think we should not be doing outward things. In fact, I’ve actually gained a good appreciation for the book of James in the last few years! I see much of what James is speaking about as not being possible without His moving in me to supply me to do those things. This is just like all the things Jesus spoke about in Mathew 5:1-12 (the “Beatitudes”) – does man have it in himself to do these things from the heart that Jesus spoke of? I don’t believe so, but through His indwelling and suppling us they are all possible. Well, I must admit this has been a much longer opening post than I expected to do, but as I got to writing, it just came out, and I think some personal background is good to present here. I am interested in how important others’ view the working of the indwelling, inner life of Christ is, and how that corresponds with the more outward manifestations of good works – and I believe we children of the Most High can have a fruitful discussion around this. Thanks in advance for sharing your thoughts, scriptures and experience! __________________ LC Berkeley 70s; LC Columbus OH 80s; An Ekklesia in Scottsdale 98-now Praise the Lord - HE'S GOT THIS!

11-01-2021, 03:25 PM	#2
Trapped Member Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 1,523	Re: What about Inner Life? What does "inner life" mean to you? What do you mean when you use that phrase? What is some Scripture that comes to mind regarding inner life? You mentioned 1 John 2:27, which is a good one: 20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth. 21 I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth. 22 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son. 23 No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also. 24 As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is what he promised us—eternal life. 26 I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. 27 As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him. Where does the Bible say (or indicate or imply is good enough) that we have "the life of Christ" in us, i.e. what verses do you have in mind when you say that? What are some verses that say or imply that "His life is working in us"? (I think what I mean here is, is there really the thought in the Bible that His life is working, as a separately identifiable concept than just He is working?) I'm not arguing for or against; I just want to start with Scripture so we have a common understanding of what we are talking about! Trapped

11-01-2021, 03:30 PM	#15
Robert Member Join Date: Dec 2020 Posts: 278	Re: What about Inner Life? Topic is good, but testimony better... I am glad and recalling also my first years experience. Inner life... it is hard to imagine visible fruits without invisible juice inside tree. May be later I will continue. Greetings Sons of Glory!

11-13-2021, 09:23 AM	#16
On_Blended_Knee Guest Posts: n/a	Re: What about Inner Life? That's odd, I thought the central thrust of the gospel was... ...wait for it... The Kingdom! The kingdom of God ! ! ! (Mark 1: 14 - 15, Matthew 1: 17) I know that crucial matters like love and good works are important, and I do not mean to diminish them, but they are important in the same way that it would be vital -if you were an earthly king, to take an example- that your heir, and the heir to your throne, learn in his infancy how to wall and talk, and read and write, handle a sword or ride a horse, et cetera, until the time he should succeed to the throne of his father's kingdom. I mean, come on, once you've received all your awesome rewards for all the good works you've done and the love you've shown over the course of your brief life, then what next? What next for the following billion years or so? Well, I hope you're all good at playing the hard or an electric guitar, or something... ... my two shekels worth...