Gods life vs Lee life

[Covert]

In the lords recovery, I believe that the LR members dont even or want to truly know what it means to have Gods life. When you say you are God in life and nature but are completely negligent of his nature/attributes, it begs the question to what it means to have Gods life. In my observations, it seems to me that the in the LR, the showcasing or practice of Gods life and nature is to go be vainglorious, engage in vain repetition, be murderous with words towards other believers and groups of people, amoral, and narcissistic/self centered. When I read the bible and see how god portrays himself and speaks of himself, I hardly see that in the LR. In fact, the LR would hate much of Gods nature/attributes if you brought up the scriptures. If I just pull some scripture showcasing Gods nature and his characteristics/attributes, you can already see how the true God of the Holy Bible is not really the God they worship but a false corrupted portrayal by Lee.

If the church-life is practice is supposed to represent the life of God, then I have to say either you have very a strange book in which you try to call the Holy Bible or you have been greatly deceived by listening to man more than God (a bit of both since they have a corrupted bible with Satanic footnotes, and they have a ministry they prioritize over the bible just like the Mormons do with Book of Mormons). I am sorry to say the God in which I read in the bible and the revelation of the bible, does not match at all with your practices/teachings. So it is definitely true regenerated believers have the spirit of life in them, but the approach and practice of "Gods Life" or I should say "Lees Life" in the LR is definitely out of loop with the bible. Im sorry the lords hate your babbling/vain repetition. Yes call on the lord, but not like a heathen cause the lord hates that (Matthew 6). You maintain existence largely because of fear mongering, manipulation, gaslighting, and guilt tripping over a mans ministry. While at the same time you belittle the fear of God and exalt the fearing of a mans ministry (Utter blasphemy). You have a peculiar narcissism that neglects many families and individuals. You are murderous with words towards other believers and other, and brothers in the LR that have concerns with the practice of the church life in regards to scripture and sully men of God for simply being one with the word of God and what the word of God tells them to do......

You see in Lee ministry that he says knowing God does not matter and that just loving him is all you need? Where did he get that? Idk, probably Satan. It sounds real nice at first but that is the deceptive tactic of Witness Lee. Its why the pure word is hardly ever emphasized. Its always everything with the corrupted Satanic ministry, so that the pure word cant reveal what God truly is and what he cares about. So let me show you a verse that throws away Lee bogus claim that knowing God does not matter.

Jeremiah 9:23-24
23 Thus says the Lord: “Let not the wise man boast in his wisdom, let not the mighty man boast in his might, let not the rich man boast in his riches, 24 but let him who boasts boast in this, that he understands and knows me, that I am the Lord who practices steadfast love, justice, and righteousness in the earth. For in these things I delight, declares the Lord.”

If the people of the LR were to really know God apart from the false , Satanic corrupted footnotes. They would realize the true God of the Holy bible is not what Lee tries to paint at all. They would realize this false and corrupted perception of God is actually what God hates. Look at that verse from Jeremiah, the lord takes delight in Justice, Steadfast Love, and righteousness. Yes love is important, but God is a bit more than that. In fact the LC always talks about love, but when the truth of the word of God comes to power, they are callous with no love of the lord in them. They sully, excommunicate, and murder you with words. If one is truly capture the God of the Holy Bible, look at what the lord loves and takes delight in, what he wants from his people, and looking at how the son of God lived in the gospels, you would see that is completely different from the practice and teachings of the corrupted Witness Lee.

One last thing, people can have endless dialogue on the first few chapters of Genesis. But the LR teaching that being on the path of good, seeking righteousness/Justice, hating/condemning evil. Is something that should not be sought because it is of the Satanic, that is actually a blasphemous and corrupt teaching from Satan. Those attributes/ideals I just listed are of the lord God himself, it is commanded from the Lord God himself and his prophets to be sought for and to follow, and it what the lords loves and takes delight in. It is what he wishes for us to follow, his servants throughout the ages in the Old and New Covenant, promulgate these attributes of the lord that are written in the hearts of men to be kept, sought for, and take delight in. If you claim you have the life of God, just make sure its the one and only true God as told in the Holy bible and not some corrupted/Satanic false teaching by a corrupted man.

So how should treat the Lee teaching in regards to morals/ethics? Just another garbage interpretation of the bible used as nothnig more than Satanic tool to perpetuate evil. Just like how JW believe only 144,000 people go to heaven (Garbage Interpretation). Witness Lee believes being moral/ethical is mutually exclusive with Gods Life, when those attributes are loved/delighted by God, come from him, and are written in the hearts of men to follow and preserve. Lee life Satanic, corrupted, blasphemy that goes against God entirely. Just look at what happens when a collective of people follows "Lees life". You have evil doers of all sorts of transgressions running around rampantly and being fortified by their associates, while men of God, men who abide and are one with Gods word, are murdered with words and their names tarnished forever. Jesus said people will hate you just as they hated him first, speaking the truth aligned with word of God angers many.

Bill Malon said he was called the Anti Christ for his decision to follow the word of God, the blended corrupted despots couldn't even visit Bill when he had heart surgery. Yet Philip Lee gets an apology letter from an entire collective of elders, maintains his position making millions off the money off the money of saints, and a nice burial in a luxurious grave sight with his corrupted father, with the following words engraved in his grave stone "Loving father, grandfather, and husband". What utter madness, this what happens in an environment where people follow the Lee life instead the life of God.

So I guess now its time for you to chat. What is to have Gods life in the practice of the Christian life? Compare and Contrast Gods Life vs Lee life with your experience in the LR. Feel free to share your thoughts on this thread.

[OBW]

Covert,

I note that this is now 3 days old with no comments. And given that there is a lot here, it should seem at least a little odd. And I would like to make some, but I think that a repetition of some other’s more generic comments about your posts might be in order first. After that, maybe we can look at the content.

I believe I recall at least one post by either Nell or UntoHim asking you to take more care in your manner of writing. To use the spell checker. To read through your sentences to ensure that you are actually saying what you think you are. And one thing you have to watch out for is seeing what you expect to see rather than what is actually there. For example, I am prone to type “think” when I mean “thing” and vice versa. And the spell checker does not catch it. And while I now use Grammarly when typing things within my internet browser (which would often catch this reversal of words) if I start my draft on my computer, I do not have the Grammarly option turned on in Word because it seems to slow things down enough to be annoying.

It often appears that you start some lengthy sentences and then somewhat forget where you were going by the time you get to the end. The results vary, but can mean the sentence does not hold tother as a complete thought, or is even an incomplete thought altogether. For example, toward the end of your post, in the paragraph that starts “One last thing . . .” your second sentence is not a complete sentence. I realize that we often use incomplete sentences instead of phrases separated by commas. But this sentence is making the initial point about something the LR teaches from the first chapters of Genesis. But you never actually make the point. Or is it that the period after the words “condemning evil” is intended to be a comma and the following sentence is what you are trying to say?

This is just one example from the rather lengthy (almost 2 full pages in Times New Roman 12 point font) post. It is not simply constant. But it is quite prevalent. I did not choose the 6th paragraph because it was the first time I had trouble trying to figure out what you were saying.

And while no one has mentioned this before, I notice a tendency to use the phrase “in which” where it does not logically fit and too often makes the meaning of the sentence containing it of uncertain meaning. For example, in the first sentence of paragraph 2, you say “. . . I have to say either you have very a strange book in which you try to call the Holy Bible. . . .” Are you saying that they are calling some other book the Bible. Or are you just saying that they do not have any understanding of how to read the Bible? While not the only issue here, the "in which" simply does not fit and only further confuses the meaning. I could also get a couple of other ideas from this. And the closely following reference to the Book of Mormon does hint at my first assumption. But there is nothing introduced at that point to suggest an alternate “holy book.” I admit that with the right information put on the record, I could make that assertion. But I am perplexed as to how to read and understand your writing.

Maybe English is not your primary language. And that might be helpful to know. I might be less prone to getting picky about grammar and wording if I knew that. But it still would not help to answer the uncertainties as to meaning, though I might try harder to read between the lines. But it would still result in uncertainty.

I know I have complained about your propensity to rush to grand conclusions rather than suggest an idea to discuss. And your tendency to resort to ad hominems (attacks on the person(s) rather than the idea, teaching, etc.) as a means of trying to force your conclusion to be accepted. But despite that, I actually think you have made some points worthy of discussion. The problem is that they have been poisoned from the outset. The holders of the errant thinking have been painted with such strong sentiments (including calling the books, references, footnotes, etc., that they read as Satanic) that it is difficult to have a discussion that might tend to be less caustic or even find some of it rather benign or even OK.

So my question to you (rather than suggestion or dictate from a moderator) is this. Are you willing to take the time to restate less than all of this post (or any other post) in a clear manner, without comments on the character of the writer(s) or followers — or even the teachings (outside of any specific premise about them) — that we can discuss. Allow finding that a teaching is wrong, inconsistent with the Bible, etc., to replace characterizations of the people. Instead of starting with “God’s life vs Lee’s life” which is a rather complex concept, start with a bite-sized topic. Maybe after a succession of such topics, we might get to a point where we can consider tying the overall effect of such discrete items into a more general finding. Even something that resembles a replacement of God’s life with something (even if not precisely “Lee’s life).

I know it seems that we are picking on you. We are not. And what we say is not for the purpose of demeaning you or driving you away. I think some of your ideas are worthy of discussion. But at something less than “everything including the kitchen sink” all at once. It would be better to deal with a short homily than a full hour-long sermon that goes all over the place. And surely better than trying to take on the entire LC lexicon and library of writings in a single thread.

[Covert]

Appreciate the feedback OBW. English is indeed my first language, so why are my posts so sloppy? Well I type really fast and since I simply type in the text box provided by this forum, things get sloppy real fast without software applications to assist me such as "Microsoft Word". Along with my typing really fast, my thoughts think faster than my typing, so I skip over a lot of words and get words mixed up such as "thing and this". My lack of proofreading and grammar check contributes to my sloppy post. Usually I was just really looking forward to posting knowing there was many errors but I just hoped people would understand and get past it. Its a forum post and not a graded essay.

As for the content of the post, I can briefly summarize my recent post into different threads. For this thread I just wanted that the LR has a very unbiblical and corrupted view of the idea/concept of "Gods life". They have a bible that is corrupted by many footnotes that takes much more space than scripture. For the most part LR members abides by these footnotes that aim to corrupt and pervert the bible into Lee Satanic ideology/theology. They also have supplemental books from his ministry that deepens the wound and further corrupts the understanding of the one true God of the holy bible. The book of Mormon comment was just a insult to the corrupted they have that undermines that true understanding of God. Just like how the book of Mormon undermines Jesus, the footnotes of the LR bible does the same thing.

As for the many details my posts covers, I mean the details just expand on the corruption of the understanding of God by W.Lee. I give biblical foundation and anecdotal/historical events to back my post. Some of my posts are insanely long but for this one, I think it was OK for the most part. As for my strong language, it is what it is man. Satan corrupts many people, W.Lee just went ballistic and started a grew a new religious movement from that Satanic corruption. Im not pining Satanic corruption on him as its some sort of vile and monstrous milestone that only the most evil of men can achieve. Lee insecurity, megalomania and his narcissism, just allowed Satan to corrupt him to no end. It led to Lee, with the honest truth, murdering much of the word of God. He just picks and chooses what verses to ignore or forsake, even entire books of the bible such as James. All because of his insecurity and his obsession with corrupting/domineering the local churches with his fallen/corrupt image of the "Lee life". They can call their "church-life" whatever they want it, but it is certainly not producing the image/manifestation of the God of the holy bible. The best thing I can call that is the "Lee life", and history shown in the LR, it leads to complete and utter Satanic madness.

Your are not hurting my feelings at all, I know its sloppy. Even though my posts are sloppy, I sure mean business and I love the word of God. I want other people to abide their christian living by the word of God and not corruption of man. Thank you for your time and I appreciate your feed back, both brothers and sisters that have taken the time to point these things out.

[Covert]

Originally Posted by OBW

Covert, I know it seems that we are picking on you. We are not. And what we say is not for the purpose of demeaning you or driving you away. I think some of your ideas are worthy of discussion. But at something less than “everything including the kitchen sink” all at once. It would be better to deal with a short homily than a full hour-long sermon that goes all over the place. And surely better than trying to take on the entire LC lexicon and library of writings in a single thread.

Almost forgot on my thoughts on deciding what to talk about in my threads. The format with my threads centers around having very similarly related subtopics on one big thread. If I were to make a separate thread for every one of my subtopics, I would probably fill the forums a bit more than comfort for the most part. As of this thread, just pick and chose and go with the flow. If you want to talk about LC history such as Bill Malon, talk about that, never knew the man but feel terrible he had to go through that. If you have examples of Lee blatantly contradicting scripture for his own regard, please comment on that. If you want to expand on the practices of the church life that go against the teachings of the bible, then feel free to do so. I mean just pick and chose brother, whatever you want to expand on. It is a big post, meant to make a big thread that talks about a lot of things. I will say this though, you are very eloquent and your English prose is pleasant to look at. You lived many years and you definitely gained some wisdom from the lord, as seen in your writing. The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom correct? Pushing past all of this, it is clear my intelligent and poetic brother, that sloppy me and neatly you, both type a bit more than peoples comfort

Nonetheless, OBW, you are a valuable brother to the forums. I will definitely consider your advice and all others when making future post!

[Nell]

There is something you should consider. This forum has been around for a long time. There isn’t much that hasn’t been discussed already…some things ad nauseum. You might benefit from reading the older topics and formulate your thoughts. You haven’t posted anything new…yet.

You seem to be excusing yourself for your objectionable communication style, and making your readers work…sifting through your sloppiness. If you want to communicate effectively, consider your readers first—before yourself. Respect your readers, or they will simply stop reading you…especially if what you write already exists in other topics.

We are trying to help you, Covert. OBW has given you some good feedback. Pay attention and stop making excuses. Again, listen to your critics.

Nell

[OBW]

Covert,

I was not suggesting that you simultaneously start all the threads, rather that you start one that is demonstrative. For example, in the first part of your opening thread, you say something about God's life and nature and that the LC does not seem to know what that is. So instead of concluding that the LC speaks about it but does not know what it is and calling them vainglorious and their extra-biblical sources as being Satanic, let's establish what the Bible says about the nature and person of God that is commanded as the example for our living. Once we have that established, then we can look at some of the things the LC says it is, or look at how well they do or do not live that life.

And we may find that we also need to take some time (in another thread?) to differentiate between the ritual, dietary, and righteous laws of God. Why? Because it would appear that failing at so many things may stem from the refusal to recognize that the righteous requirement of the law was not abolished even if the ritual and dietary laws were.

But even after doing these things, you can't just say that they are taking Lee's life (or his distorted version of God's life). You need more.

When that one has run out of steam, take another issue. Do it again and again. Let the weight of a collection of well-vetted conclusions speak for themselves rather than devising a catch-all that does not actually speak of the details. In a way, Lee did this same kind of thing in reverse. When you said that everything was just Christ and essentially taught us to ignore the actual attributes, benefits, etc., we ended up with a phrase rather than everything that was claimed to be there. You don't need grace, you just need Christ. I know it sounds almost impossible to stand in opposition to that kind of speaking because we know that in a sense it is correct. But grace was not spoken of with such details so that we would forget what it is and "just take Christ." Mercy was not something subsumed into Christ that we didn't need to understand because it was "just Christ" and we would naturally get it because of the "dispensing" of "God's economy." When you look at Lee's teachings in this way, maybe you can see the problem of turning many things into a grand narrative — whether substituting Lee for God or calling the group a cult. These grand narratives may include a lot. But we don't see the details. They are hiding behind a curtain. We see only the amalgamation and are unsure exactly what it is about. But if the details are brought out on their own, they will shine as nails to be driven into the coffin of Lee's teaching. Forget the coffin. Focus on the nails.

And remember that making a characterization of anyone or anything does not make it so. There are some "rules of the road" for doing the kind of analysis that we are trying to do. Among them are that we should not simply resort to name-calling of any kind. I mentioned ad hominems within the past couple of days. That is to make references to your opponent that have nothing to do with the discussion. Remember that even evil people can be right on a subject. Trying to win by slandering your opponent does not win the argument. It just terminates it by implying that the slander is relevant to the correctness of your position. Remember, for all the evil that Hitler did, he was not simply wrong on everything. Same goes for what they call "poisoning the well," which is to make irrelevant but disparaging remarks about the opposing position on the subject at hand. Soft minds will be swayed by the irrelevant remarks. The discussion will end without truly establishing that you are correct. Just that emotional sentiment is on your side.

And be careful not to "beg the question." I know that the term has become popularly used to mean "raise" or "suggest" a question. But it actually means that the speaker/writer is "begging" that the listener/reader accept the "question" (the thing being decided upon) as the reason to accept or dismiss evidence in the decision-making process. As an example, in The Normal Christian Church Life, Nee goes through his basis for establishing his one church per city rule known as "the ground of the church." But in that book, he does not deal with the verses about house churches. So in Further Talks on the Church Life, he comes to that issue and essentially declares that it does not mean what it seems to mean and the "ground" rule is not violated. In doing this, he essentially says that the accounts of house churches cannot mean what they seem to mean because of the ground of the church rule. In effect, he declared that the evidence that could damage his doctrine could not mean what it seems to mean because the "ground" rule insisted that it could not. For Nee, the evidence was not used to prove or disprove the premise but was dismissed as misunderstood because the premise was already decided and it could not be disproved but instead used to dismiss evidence.

While not exactly an equivalence, you could argue that every time Lee used the grand narrative of "God's economy" to retranslate, rewrite, or even dismiss scripture, he was engaging in a kind of circular reasoning, or begging the question. He was taking his self-proclaimed conclusion, "God's economy," as a basis for dismissing the proof for or against it — the scripture.

As for writing hastily, it would be better to forget that and slow down. Surely you have some kind of word processor at your disposal. Use it. Use its spell checker. read what you have written. Read it slowly. When you read it quickly we tend to see what we expect to see. Have you ever seen that sentence of grossly misspelled, nearly obliterated words that most people can tell you exactly what it was supposed to say after reading through it two or three times? The exercise shows that our minds are good at recognizing patterns and assigning logic to chaos. To turning repetitive electronic noise into a techno dance song with the words in Hindi, or a message from Mars. I'm not suggesting that your reader will figure out what you are saying, but that when you hastily proofread, you are prone to seeing what you think you are supposed to see instead of what is actually there. The point is that if you want your message read and understood, you need to make sure you really say it. Trust me. My first pass is seldom good enough to post. And when I have done it anyway, the comments about the things I didn't say (or didn't mean to say) are numerous.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Nell

There is something you should consider. This forum has been around for a long time. There isn’t much that hasn’t been discussed already…some things ad nauseum. You might benefit from reading the older topics and formulate your thoughts. You haven’t posted anything new…yet.

While I agree, I have also done that when trying to find older discussions. And I have found several problems.

• The topics are not as well organized as we might like. I think the overall structure of the forum is pretty good. And I have no idea what might be better. But not all threads are within the most relevant category.
  
• Not every thread title is as descriptive with respect to the important topics. I cannot recall specifics at the moment, but within the past month, I went in to look up old threads on various subjects. And on several occasions, the best coverage was almost a side-topic that got a life of its own and was accepted as the discussion without moving to a different thread.
  
• Even where the thread is "on topic," the thread title is not clearly about what the thread actually discussed.
  
• In some cases, the most significant discussions are not actually on this forum but were on the Bereans forum which is no longer available. We may have tried to discuss some of the same topics here but too often devolved into concluding rather than establishing a real basis for the conclusion. I know that I have made reference to the thread where we discussed Authority and Submission (aka Spiritual Authority) thinking that it was on this forum. I looked for it last month and couldn't find it. So I looked on my hard drive to see if I had copied it out of the forum for my personal reference. And I found it. In a folder of Berean posts and threads. It was on the Bereans forum from June 2010 through April 2011. About 350 posts. And no one can refer to it. The little we have talked about it here seems to have been shortened because of the prior discussions.

And while I understand UntoHim's desire to not repeat posts from the Bereans forum, especially while both were active (that included the time of the Authority and Submission thread), I now think that some of what we consider to be our wealth of prior discussion is no longer available. It was shut down several years ago when the Bereans essentially turned off their forum. And without disparaging the currently active members of this forum, I do not think that we have the breadth of participants to do the heavy lifting of the kind of analysis that would be required to fill in the gaps in our "evidence." We would need more members with the inclination to actually do it.

As for the threads actually on this forum, unless we are going to challenge our participants to do the forum equivalent of Lee's "thorough study of the entire scripture" to find anything that is there, we probably need to figure out how to add tags or something beyond subject categories, thread titles, and word searches to index the contents of the forum.

I realize that if you go to look for things, you may find what you want quickly. But on other topics, it is not so easy to find. Sometimes the problem is figuring out the right word. What seems obvious to me now might not have been the word used then. And I gave up on a couple, then discovered while reading seemingly irrelevant threads (relative to the topic I had previously tried to find), there it was. I never found a significant discussion on Authority and Submission (besides the copy of the Beran thread I put on my hard drive). We talk about "deputy authority" all the time but almost never do more than summarize that it was bad theology from Authority and Submission. I know there was a much more robust discussion of the theology of God's economy. I eventually did a reboot on the book here, but it did not get much beyond the first chapter. The exercise was an eye-opener for me related to much of Lee's ways of thinking. And was part of the reason I started in on Authority and Submission (unfortunately on the other forum).

And I know that I am suggesting something that none of us really has time to do. It is more of a lament that we had not considered our current state as a possible outcome of the decisions made as far back as 2008. They did not seem bad when they were made. I agreed with UntoHim about not duplicating discussions from the Bereans forum (whether or not I ever actually said it). Yet here we are now wishing we had at least had a more nuanced version of that decision.

[Nell]

OBW,

I agree with you. It's not easy to find what you're interested in when it had become a tangent in an "off topic" thread. To "fix" it, after all these years is a real challenge, if not impossible.

Nell

[aron]

Originally Posted by OBW

if the details are brought out on their own, they will shine as nails to be driven into the coffin of Lee's teaching. Forget the coffin. Focus on the nails..

This is always a good point to remember. And even though it seems that you leave them suspended in space, they are not.

For example: "intensification" as part of God's economy. I keep asking, Where do we see intensification in Paul's epistles? If we don't see him teaching it, why can we say that he asked Timothy to remain behind in Ephesus and teach it?

Here is Paul on degradation, which was assumed the necessity for WL's "intensification" teaching --- "For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear." ~2 Tim 4:3.

Paul may suggest degradation, but where does Paul teach intensification? Where are the Seven Spirits in the writing of Paul? Or, where does John on Patmos say, "These Seven Spirits are the 'intensification' part of the 'God's economy' taught by Paul"? Until someone at LSM answers this, it remains a shiny nail. I don't even have to indict them, with their own words they indict themselves.

Or, where is Paul (or anyone in the NT) seen regarding OT scripture as "natural" or "mixed sentiments" or "human concepts"? If the NT writer doesn't ever call the OT by these pejoratives, when why should any student of the NT ever do this?

Or, why call some Psalms of imprecation "natural concepts" because they lack charity, yet other similar psalm-writings are held as types of Christ defeating Satan? Where's the explanation showing how it means one thing one place and something else later? And, how could a Bible expositor give such questionable teachings repeatedly in front of thousands, and yet nobody questioned it? Until LSM satisfactorily addresses these questions, they remain bright shiny nails.

I agree with OBW on this - if you want to be effective, be succinct, and let the point suggest itself from the contents. And even if these questions are left unanswered, seeming to be hanging in virtual space, they've done their job. Matthew 22:46 "No one could say a word in reply, and from that day on no one dared to ask him any more questions." Just keep asking the questions, many of them obvious in retrospect, that nobody has yet dared to ask. And until someone answers them, they remain bright shiny nails.

[Covert]

Hello Aaron, you make some good points regarding LC doctrine and its entanglements. Honestly brother, we can go on and on regarding the nonsense of Lee teachings. Yet to be honest, if a lunatic conman like Joseph Smith can gain a following til this day that reaches the millions; why can’t a water down version of him like Witness Lee do the same thing? There are plenty of strange and wacky groups like the LR/Mormons and they come in all sizes and forms. They all have their teachings that are corrupted by Satan to a fairly large extent. God will have to lead people out of these groups just like God has led us out. I think the Mormons are higher on the spectrum than the LR regarding Satanic doctrine, but nonetheless they are embedded in corrupt doctrine generally.

Lee attempted murder (figuratively) on the Psalms, is just showcasing how people and their Satanic vainglory, are propagating their corrupted doctrine, and spread teachings on how the bible is only valid if it aligns with their doctrine. Muslims for example say that the bible is corrupt but will accept certain scripture that align with its Quran. So, the verses regarding Jesus and his miracles and the birth from his virgin mother are accepted because the Quran teaches that. Any verses related to his divinity, the Muslims vehemently reject that, as the Quran does not align with those verses. Just like how the Muslims attempt to use their Satanic lies to attack the bible, Lee does the same thing with his Satanic doctrine. Witness Lee uses his Satanic doctrine to murder much of the word of God.

For Old covenant Jews, the word of God says the Mosaic law was meant to be kept and make the Jews follow the God ordained way of life. Lee teaching saying the Mosaic law was only meant to expose and never intended for men to keep, is a Satanic lie. Yes, it is true the Mosaic law was impossible to keep in its entirety and it did expose many Jews, but the idea that an old covenant Jew should never strive to keep the Mosaic law and was never intended to be kept, that is a Satanic lie.

For Psalms, the Psalmist such as David express destruction and vengeance upon their enemies. This expression of vengeance and destruction is simply an expression of the very same sentiment God himself felt towards the enemies of his people. If you don't like some of the psalms regarding this content, then you won’t like much scripture in the bible regarding God’s intention towards his enemies. David expresses the sentiment of God, all the Psalms express Christ. If a person hates the entire expression of old covenant law, then I guess they hate much of the Old Testament to say the least.... The Psalmist were old covenant Jews, so they loved the Mosaic law, AS COMMANDED BY GOD.

For James, he is emphasizing the moral law. Lee tries to pin Paul against James. Paul belittles the Mosaic law and uplifts the moral law. Paul also says doers of the law and not hearers are justified. James and Paul go hand in hand when regarding the moral law. Anybody who reads the bible knows Paul deeply cared for the moral commandments of God. Jesus Christ says if you love him, keep his commandments, and that keeping the commandments is the way to eternal life (Matthew 19). Apostle John says, keeping God’s commandments is expressing the love of God, and anyone who says he knows God and does not keep his commandments is the Liar and has no truth in him. I can go on and on, when scripture is very clear in this regard to the moral commandments. Corrupted/Satanic men like Lee will try to belittle portions of God’s word, to preserve their corruption. Lee trying to make the epistle of James seem like some uplifting of the Mosaic law, while very clearly James is emphasizing the moral of law as commanded by God and promulgated by his apostles. People like Witness Lee, Muhammad, and Joseph Smith are all conmen who attempted to take away and add to God’s word, all for their own Satanic vainglory, megalomania, and insecurity. Revelation 22 reveals what happens to these people, I don't care if you don’t like what it says, it is what God says, the lord is above all you and you will submit to his word.

I tell all of you, read the word, and you will see and submit to the same things I see and submit to. The word reveals the truth and helps exposes and causes you to avoid the destructive doctrine of corrupted/Satanic man that aim to attempt to murder God’s word for their own destructive/Satanic ambitions. I will end this post with the word of God, that shows you the truth. Its just not the LR: to any Mormons, Muslims, or any other follower of false teaching, leave the Satanic lie. Follow the way, the truth, and the life as told in John chapter 14.

Deuteronomy 30:16 (this was the command from God to old covenant Jews, such as the Psalmist)
16 If you obey the commandments of the Lord your God[a] that I command you today, by loving the Lord your God, by walking in his ways, and by keeping his commandments and his statutes and his rules,[b] then you shall live and multiply, and the Lord your God will bless you in the land that you are entering to take possession of it.

Matthew 19:16-22 (Keeping the commandments leads to eternal life)
16 And behold, a man came up to him, saying, “Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?” 17 And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.” 18 He said to him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, 19 Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 20 The young man said to him, “All these I have kept. What do I still lack?” 21 Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” 22 When the young man heard this he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.

James 2:8 (James, a true bondslave of Jesus Christ (unlike Lee), who promulgated his word as commanded)
If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well.

John 14:15/15:10

14:15 “If you love me, you will keep my commandments.
15:10 If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my father’s commandments and abide in his love.

1 John 5:2-3
By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.

1 John 2:4
Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him,
Titus 2:14
who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works.

Romans 2:13
For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified.

James 1:22
But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.

Revelations 22:18-19
18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

Jesus Christ, the truth, the way, and the life. Follow the one true God as told in the holy bible and you will have eternal life.

[Covert]

Aaron my brother, you bring up fantastic questions. To be honest, the entire contradictory culture of the LSM is due to the Satanic corruption. It is just utter Satanic madness how people will not even acknowledge the blatant contradiction to scripture. Witness Lee, with his Satanic corruption, directly attacks the commands/words of the lord God himself. Just as Satan rebelled against God’s sovereignty. Lee says the law was never meant to be kept? God does not want his believers to keep his commandments/laws? These are the words of Satan promulgated by those he corrupts; it rebels and attempts to undermine Gods royal commandments/law. As Jesus is the King of King and Lord of Lords, he has a kingdom, and his followers will be under his precepts to abide in such as glorious creation.

So, whether its Lee contradicting himself in his Satanic exposition in Psalms or James, or wherever. It is all just the will of Satan using a corrupted man who is a: narcissistic, vainglorious, egotistical, megalomaniac, heretical, and domineering individual. Witness Lee had the audacity to blaspheme against scripture at his own perceived discretion, using his Satanic doctrine, and deciding which scripture is valid/invalid and to be considered for teachings and practices of the Christian life. Just how the Muslims use their Satanic Quran to attempt to undermine much of the Holy bible, denying the divinity of Christ and the cross that freed us all. These blasphemous individuals such as Lee, Joseph Smith, and Muhammad; They are corrupted men who with their destructive pride, aimed to topple the word of God with their blasphemy. These men are corrupted grocery shoppers, picking and choosing what scripture to blaspheme against at their own destructive/Satanic ambition and discretion. Revelation 22:18-19, it is as clear as day what happens to these people.

Aaron, just think to yourself, these blasphemous people are going to continue to come up throughout time. The lord will deal with these Satanic teachings one way or another. The bible gives you much scripture and guidance on how to test and avoid these corrupted doctrines/false teachings. The lord has blessed you and taken you out of this madness, so have I, and many others. Over time, many more will be led out of this madness by the grace of God.

What madness, to think that a man can just condemn portions of scripture, with a false revelation he has received from Satan. The Lord surely does not give grace/favor/blessings to this Satanic madness. Look at the poor condition of this church, schisms, turmoil’s, death of vain repetition, fear, anxiety, no freedom of Christ. Just repeat a Satanic ministry and call the name of the lord in heathen repetition and blasphemous vain (Exodus 20:7/Matthew 6:7). Babbling/Chanting along with fearmongering of being absolute for the ministry in the entirety of the church life is not going to get you anywhere. Your insecurities, vainglory, and Satanic lies/corruption is just going to lead you to destruction

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Covert

. . . due to the Satanic corruption . . . . Satanic exposition in Psalms or James . . . . audacity to blaspheme against scripture . . . . his Satanic doctrine . . . . these blasphemous people . . .

And on and on . . . .

Please take to heart the request to stop the negative characterizations that are not the natural result of a complete analysis that we all have had the privilege of seeing or being part of. Unless you are making the statement as a conclusion to such an analysis and discussion that actually leads to the finding of blaspheme, being Satanic, etc., you are simply using negative terms to poison the thinking of others without actually establishing that the claim is true.

The point is not that you can't be right, but that you haven't established that you are right. Therefore you have not earned the right to make the statement as part of any "discussion." I'm not saying that this is a forum rule. But if you ever intend to materially participate in a real discussion or analysis of the issues surrounding the LC, you need to understand some of the "rules" of logical argument. If we are to truly decide anything, then we have to arrive at sound conclusions based on verifiable facts, not feel our way to them based on the names we call them. I've been part of the start of some discussions that were joined in by persons who saw one claim of an error (not an ultimate conclusion, but merely a claim) and metaphorically started boiling the oil, plucking the chickens, heating the tar, etc. rather than waiting for there to be a conclusion (or helping to arrive at that conclusion). And we never reached a conclusion because too many quit the discussion either to join the lynch mob, or because of frustration at the inability to actually engage in a rational discussion and reach a sound conclusion.

That is the better goal than just painting a bad picture with opinions.

Yes, you are entitled to your opinions. But if all you want to do is continue with these kinds of opinions, there are some of us that will either continue to push back, or will simply ignore you altogether. I doubt you really want either on a permanent basis.

[Covert]

OBW, very nice soothing English you have there. I always appreciate your post for the most part. I will say this though, in this thread, I am not really trying to be real formal in some sort of debate format. I know a lot of people are not going to like what I am saying. Nevertheless, agree with me or not, I am going to speak the truth that is evident. I will say it again and make it real clear regarding the truth about people like Witness Lee. Witness Lee ministry directly opposes the word of God in many ways, his doctrine/ministry is uplifted and supersedes the authority of much scripture. James and Psalms are literally just the tip of the iceberg to be frank. It just goes on and on regarding his blasphemous ministry. I know very well people have a soft spot for Lee, they get very offended by my comments. I do not care; it is what it is. I am telling the truth, stop uplifting that Satanic ministry that constantly tries to topple over and destroy the word of God.

I quoted much scripture that gives one a glimpse of how Lee just forsakes scripture for his uplifting of his Satanic exposition. Read the bible and you will see exactly why I say what I say. My evidence backing my comments, the one and only holy bible. Joseph Smith is a corrupted false prophet, Muhammad is a false prophet, W. Lee is a false teacher. They, as well as many others, have been corrupted by Satan. A man in the lord’s recovery who: engages in domestic violence crimes, adulterates, has no regard for his parents, covets, and forsakes the commandments of God for the commandments of men is also corrupted by Satan. Lots of people are corrupted by Satan, W. Lee just grew a new religious movement over his corrupted/Satanic ministry and that is where the big issue is. He created a pit of Satanic madness that people fall into day by day. He went to great lengths to perpetuate his Satanic ministry, such as fortifying: reprobate, evil, worthless, individuals and forsaking/murdering (figuratively) men of God.

People do not want to hear the truth; they have a soft spot for things they should just forgo. Joseph Smith will face judgement, Muhammad will face judgement, Witness Lee will face judgement. We all face judgment, for your sake, do not fall to the same trap as the false figures I mentioned previously (please do not). When you are in destructive, Satanic madness that you just rip apart the word of God for your own benefit, that will lead you to the worst condemnation. Revelation 22:18-19 speaks of this punishment, whether you like it or not, I do not care. The lord decided it will be this way. I am here to speak the truth, to spread the word of God and not the Satanic corruption of man. I will not defend or submit myself to the Satanic corruption of man. You are free to contest me, but I am not sugar coating the truth for some sympathizers of Satanic corruption. If someone is a Witness Lee fan, come on and try to fight against the word of God, you will fail just as bad as Witness Lee. Do you know how the LR relies on gaining members to preserve their Satanic corrupted ministry? Tricking college kids into going into a Satanic corrupt indoctrination institution. Too cowardly to preach their false gospel, must hide under aliases either on different websites or campus groups. Have to rely on being deceptive like the snake in the garden, to drag gullible sheep to your lies. Hiding and lying, this is the style of Satan, they don’t have the power and freedom of the truth of the Holy bible. Keep hiding and suing people from the shadows when they try to expose your Satanic doctrine, it’s all you will ever be known for (LSM/DCP).

My evidence again, is the word of God. You say something like God never intends or wants his followers to keep his commandments, this is surely of Satan. Blasphemous, Satanic Lie that directly goes against the direct word of God and his apostles. As for my perceived "personal attacks", you can see it that way, but it is what it is. Muhammad is a false prophet, Joseph Smith is a false prophet, that lady posing as Jesus in eastern lightning is as false at it gets, and Witness Lee is a false teacher with a false doctrine (corrupted by Satan, as all his false predecessors were). I will make threads that are, how should I say, less tense. For this thread, I am using the word of God to expose Lee Satanic corruption. If some do not like it, I can’t satisfy everybody, but Satan corrupts lots of people in different ways. Some ways lead to larger amounts of people falling victim to his corruption, such as false new religious movements such as the Mormons/LDS or Lords Recovery.

Read the word of God, and let it destroy your false concepts, teachings, and doctrines. Let the word of God free you from the Satanic chains of man. You cannot serve two masters; you will hate one and love the other. By following the word of the word of God, the LR will hate you, as they do not serve the same master as you. The master the members LR submits to: belittles the mercy of the lord, belittles the fear of the lord, despise the expression of the love of the lord by giving of alms, forsakes the lords delight in justice, forsakes his delight in righteousness, and disregards the condemnation of evil. Many people have been done through a lot of following Christ instead of following Lee, and they made the best decision they could have made. They went through tough trials, but God exposed the wrong path they were on and led them to the life, the way, and the truth. God led me out of that Satanic madness, and I am now free, I follow the commandments of God and not the commandments of men. Hallelujah, I am free from the Satanic madness, praise the lord for his mercy and love for me to do such a thing. I hope he frees many other from various pathways of false teachings. I am not afraid to speak out of this destructive doctrine that has destroyed many lives.

Word of God is my evidence brother, the scripture I quoted are as plain as day. The scripture I have given is not complicated, nor vague, but very plain and straightforward. I stand by my comments towards Lee, Joseph Smith, and Muhammad. Just a bunch of glorified corrupted grocery shoppers.

[Trapped]

Covert,

I largely agree with what you say, but for the sake of the readers, can you give specific examples? I mean, like, specific. Like actually spell it out.

I can think of one - Witness Lee taught that if you don't follow the vision released by the minister of the age (him), then your service isn't accepted by God. In another place, he says that the way to follow the vision is to follow the person releasing that vision.

In other words, you have to follow Witness Lee for your service to be accepted by God.

How is this Satanic, deviated, unbiblical? Well, it creates an extra requirement in addition to believing in Christ for believers to be accepted by God! It means that God tore the temple veil in two and raised His Son from the dead, indicating that He accepted Jesus' death as payment in full for our sins, but Witness Lee says "nope, not enough, you have to follow what IIIIIII say in order for God to accept your service."

It actually negates the self-sufficiency of the death of the Son of God to fully reconcile us back to God.

If I had more time I would do a better job of this by adding ministry quotes where Witness Lee taught what I just claimed, and including verses to show how the Bible contradicts what Lee said. OBW can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that kind of thing is what he is asking for so there can be discussion about a particular teaching/practice and the implications thereof.

What you are saying is true, but for any person inside the local church, or for even any person who has left but is still struggling (which are many), having specific examples and having specific teachings spelled out and the errors shown are where the value is. That will help them understand specifically WHY the teachings, which sound so Christian, are so very not.

Trapped

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Covert

I quoted much scripture that gives one a glimpse of how Lee just forsakes scripture for his uplifting of his Satanic exposition. Read the bible and you will see exactly why I say what I say. My evidence backing my comments, the one and only holy bible. Joseph Smith is a corrupted false prophet, Muhammad is a false prophet, W. Lee is a false teacher.

With this one paragraph I will try to show why you are not succeeding in doing what you think you are doing.

Yes, you quoted some scripture. But you were selective in your quoting. There are also verses that refer to the end, or termination, of the law. I am not saying that those cannot be overcome. But by ignoring them, you have given only part of the story. You have cherry-picked verses that speak the words you want to use.

It is a glimpse. Yet it is a glimpse groomed by using verses that are selected to give one aspect of a story. To make a conclusion appear final while a fuller look at all verses on the subject might not be as certain as you think. I may ultimately agree that it is correct. But that agreement will be because of evidence and arguments that include verses that you have ignored. That you did not provide (or even do?) the work of showing how they do not stand in opposition to your position.

You say you don't want a formal debate-style discussion. I am not proposing that. But I do think that adhering to many of those rules is beneficial. Why? Because even if you are bringing forward the verses that we ultimately conclude are of the correct intent, if you ignore those that seem to deal with what might be called conflicting positions, you leave your conclusion in doubt. Especially for readers that do not already know how to deal with the contradictory verses.

Selectively bringing up verses is not necessarily a bad thing. We probably all start with seeing something in particular verses and thinking we have something. But until we have looked more carefully at the full intent of a verse, its context, as well as verses that seem to speak differently on the subject, you cannot truthfully say that you have done your homework. (Or say that the discussion is complete.) For example, Nee went to a lot of trouble to give his spin on terms like "the church in [city]" and "the church which is at/in [city]." But there was obviously some push-back from somewhere saying he had not dealt with all the verses. And that would include the verses referring to the churches that were located in certain individual's houses. We do not know for certain whether some of these might have been outside of any city or were instead within the city to which the particular letter was addressed. But Nee simply dismisses them as unable to overcome his one city one church rule.

In effect, when you choose your verses to fit the narrative you are seeking to push, you do the same thing. You are implying that your interpretation of the meaning of these verses is the correct interpretation, that there is no variation, that the larger context does not undermine your conclusion, and that verses that would appear to say something different are to be ignored.

The Calvinists do this every day when dealing with the Arminian position, and vice versa.

Now you have appeared a little less than 2 months ago with an arsenal of positions and labels and are unwilling to do much more than post them and declare that you are done. You have no desire to support your positions. You don't care about whether you really are right or not because you think you are so that is all that matters.

We were so quick to publically chastise StG and yet this is OK?

And while I somewhat agree with the general conclusions that you have shortcut the process to make, I still do not agree with the general use of inflammatory names and labels that are not directly arising from the source material. It is one thing to declare that Lee's teachings are incorrect. To question his motives for pushing such incorrect teachings in ways that are designed to get otherwise intelligent people to accept grossly altered readings of otherwise clear words, etc. But to resort to throwing around words like "blaspheme" and "Satanic." Unfortunately, these and other terms too often arise in your posts without a context in which they are rightly understood as being relevant. For example, blaspheme generally requires that you in some way lie about the nature of God. To state the opposite of what is known to the true. But if the person believes that they are speaking truthfully about God, even if they are deluded as to what is true, is it clearly blaspheme? Maybe, maybe not. Maybe it is no more than a theological disagreement about what is true. We may think we have rightly concluded that one side is true and the other is not. But whether their continued belief in what we think is the wrong understanding constitutes blaspheme is not necessarily ours to decide. Instead, the use of the term is too often, like Satanic, inerrancy, and others, mostly a crutch to either shame them into changing without actually convincing them, or to scare people away from them without real evidence.

Let the evidence speak. Save your labels for the headings in your private scrapbook. Labels suggest that your evidence is weak. Protest all you want. That is what is suggested.

[UntoHim]

Sorry my brothers and sisters, but I have seen little discussion about "God's life Vs Lee life." Too little relevant posts, and too much caustic rhetoric. This is not fair to those coming here to see dialogue concerning "making sense of the Lord's Recovery Movement". I don't see much here that can possibly help our dear brothers and sisters in the Local Church movement, or anyone else for that matter.

Covert, please make a brief post to wrap this thing up.
-

[Covert]

Thank you OBW and Trapped for your comments. First, I would like to tackle both recent comments and explain why I give the labels such as "Satanic" to Lee ministry.After this post, I will pretty much explain my stance, and then we can move on. You can agree or disagree, its your choice. I understand a lot of people disagree with me, and you have the complete freedom of will to contest or not with my words. Glad there is no "Forum Speaker Of The Age" here and we all have to agree and complete align with the speaking of that individual . Glad to have a discussion with all of you, I appreciate you all!

Let us look at Satan in the bible, specifically when Jesus is tempted after his fasting in the wilderness. Satan approaches Jesus and attempts to pull him from God. Satan tries to utilize certain portions of scripture to his advantage in his Satanic ambition. So, what is the goal of Satan in this portion of scripture? He wants to get Jesus to worship him and bow down to him. He wants to pull the son of God away from God and separate him from the Lord. He tempts him with the offerings of the word in his possession and even tries to use the word of God to try to entrap Jesus and pull him from the God.

Satan says
“If you are the Son of God, command these stones to become loaves of bread.” 4 But he answered, “It is written,
“‘Man shall not live by bread alone,
but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”
5 Then the devil took him to the holy city and set him on the pinnacle of the temple 6 and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down, for it is written, “‘He will command his angels concerning you,’
and
“‘On their hands they will bear you up,
lest you strike your foot against a stone.’”

7 Jesus said to him, “Again it is written, ‘You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.’” 8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. 9 And he said to him, “All these I will give you, if you will fall down and worship me.” 10 Then Jesus said to him, “Be gone, Satan! For it is written,
“‘You shall worship the Lord your God
and him only shall you serve.’”
11 Then the devil left him, and behold, angels came and were ministering to him.


Satan is being tricky and devious, he is a twisted grocery shopper, plucking scripture at his own perceived discretion, to fulfill his destructive and Satanic ambition. Satan is attempting to pit scripture against other scripture, in attempt to set fate in his favor. So how does Jesus’ counter Satan and shut down his evil plans? Jesus expands on the teachings of the word of God and reveals that “You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.”, “You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve’”.

So, when I say Lee ministry/doctrine is Satanic, it is because I see it matches the characteristics/nature of Satan, as shown in the bible. Witness Lee tries to pit portions of scripture against each other, such as degrading the mercy of God and pitting them against Paul in Ephesians chapter 1. Or trying to make James seem like is uplifting the Mosaic law in his epistle and saying, “Paul belittled the law and James uplifted”. While Paul belittled ceremonial law and uplifted the moral law/commandments, just as James. Witness Lee belittles the fear of God and always pits it against the concept of “enjoying Christ” which does not make sense (as Trapped pointed out). Then there are the teachings on morals/ethics, and dealing with sin, which is a whole mess. There are many examples I can give on Witness Lee pitting scripture against each other and twisting scripture to make them look bad and belittle them. Witness Lee does all these things because he does not like the entirety of the word of God regarding the practice of the Christian life. I am pretty sure Satan was quite disappointed when Jesus brought up scripture that basically debunked Satan attempts in pulling Jesus from God. Satan does not like much scripture in the word of God, because there is much scripture that goes against his destructive ambitions that goes against the will of God.

Lee, just like Satan, does not like much scripture in the word of God, because it is a threat to his vainglorious, SATANIC, domineering, and destructive ambition. So, when I say Lee has a Satanic doctrine/ministry, I am trying to say that his ministry aims to corrupt and destroy much of the word of God, to preserve his own corrupted ambition. Just as Satan tried to make Jesus forsake much of the word of God, so that he can get Jesus to fulfill his evil agenda that plagues mankind. Jesus Christ put Satan to shame, and the devil fled, and the angels came to him to minister him. Witness Lee ministry is Satanic in nature, in the sense of forsaking much of the word of God for its own destructive agenda/ambition. The Lords Recovery culture, practices, teachings, are more important to them than the entire composition of the word of God. As following the word of God as commanded, would in fact destroy their corrupted church life practices.

Witness Lee ministry kept in full, pulls their followers away from God and closer to Satan. Just as Satan tries to pull the son of God closer to him, even using carefully selected scripture to seduce Jesus. Satan aims to corrupt the body of Christ in every way he can. The most effective method for Satan is to spread teachings and doctrines, and twisting of scripture, that aim to forsake portions of the word of God. Extreme examples of this are Muslims and Mormons, I mean combine those two, and you have about over 1.8 billion people mislead by Satan. Its how crazy how one man such as Muhammad can result in billions of people being misled. Witness Lee doctrine is a less extreme of this, but nonetheless, his ministry is a corruption of Satan that aims to pull people away from much of the truth. Catholic church is another huge example, just look at that religious organization. I am not saying people in this group is evil like Satan (well most aren’t), but the nature of the doctrine of the LR, is corrupted much by Satan and pulls LR members farther away from God.

Was Jesus cherry picking in Matthew 4, OBW, or just telling the plain truth? The answer is clear to that question (plain truth). Brother regarding the bible teaching, on keeping the commandments/law, it is clear as day. The idea that the law was never intended or meant to be kept but only exposed and that God does not want us to keep his commandments, and just “enjoy him”, is just a complete Satanic lie. I mean the context is as clear as it gets, if one read the entire chapters of the verse I quoted, it is even going to be clearer. The best example of cherry picking I can think of is one of Steve Isitt threads titled “God sees no sin Israel”. It is centered around a saint Steve came across, and she said just as God did not see sin in Israel (Numbers 23), she will not see sin in the church life. This is what I consider out of context cherry picking, just used to fortify a blind narrative. God most definitely saw sin in Israel, as anyone can see reading through the bible. In fact, they paid a heavy price for their sin. To be honest, I could have quoted much more scripture, its as clear as day, as you read the bible, we are to keep his commandments.

The LR is not Satan’s closes minion or his greatest corruption, they are just one of many religious groups out there that, stray far from much of the word of God, in many different areas/circumstances. There are plenty of groups out there both big and small, that are Satanic, regarding forsaking of God’s word, as I illustrated from Matthew 4. The LR is small scale compared to the RCC for example, regarding Satanic corruption, so they are not all the worst when it comes to this. So, I think this settles my stance, and a more detailed explanation of why I say what I say in regard to the “Satanic” labels. We can move on to the topic of the thread more, as Untohim requested.

[Robert]

It is impossible to satisfy all readers.
I agree with You and after years I spent there I can say the same: Satanic teaching!
I can recognize it after fruits.
Just listen what Ron Kangas is spreading today and Minoru Chen.
No doubt. Winds of teaching. Thousands of fanatic followers.