Open - Interactive Letter to The Co-Workers in The Lord's Recovery

[UntoHim]

This thread will serve as an open, interactive letter of sorts. It is "interactive" because it is expected that the brothers of the Living Stream Ministry, AKA "The Co-Workers in the Lord's Recovery", AKA "The Blended Brothers", will finally interact and open an honest line of communication with current and former Local Church members.

***Responses and retorts by the Local Church brothers will be presented and prominently displayed, unabridged and unedited here on this thread.***

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Brothers, why do you now refer to Witness Lee as an apostle when he never referred to himself as an apostle? As a matter of fact, in a sworn deposition, under penalty of perjury, Witness Lee clearly denied that he considered himself as an apostle, and swore under oath that he asked his followers not to refer to himself as an apostle.

Many of us who sat at the feet of Witness Lee for decades can testify that we never heard him declare himself to be an apostle. In fact, on more than one occasion he publicly admonished us to not refer to him as an apostle. Many of us knew you brothers who now refer to yourselves as "Co-Workers in the Lord's Recovery" long before you became co-workers or employees of the Living Stream Ministry, and none of you brothers ever referred to Witness Lee as and apostle while he was alive. So what you brothers are doing is declaring Witness Lee to be an apostle posthumously. This is not biblical. This is not even logical. Nor does this align or comport with what has been taught and practiced among evangelical, orthodox Christians over the past 2,000+ years. Please explain your unbiblical stance before the brothers and sisters in the Local Churches, and to the rest of the Christian public.

You brothers have opined that "some have misguidedly demanded a list of apostles in the Lord’s recovery". No one is demanding anything. What we are doing is requesting that you do what the apostles Paul, Peter, John and many others did - Clearly state that they were apostles by name. It is altogether biblical and reasonable that those who exercise, enforce and reinforce apostolic authority (by appointing, disciplining and removing elders and conducting extra-local ministering and direction) be known by name. Why do you brothers feel that you are excused from this biblical mandate?

In your Site Introduction you brothers state: "Those who sincerely seek answers to questions can find them through genuine fellowship." Well, my brothers, "genuine fellowship" is not a one-way street. Genuine fellowship is not a monologue. The questions and contentions that have been posed here are not "rumors" or so-called "questionings". In the Declaration of Independence, the authors stated that "a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation." If you brothers have a decent respect for the rest of the members of the Body of Christ you must come to the table of open fellowship and make the same kind of declarations as founding fathers of the Christian church.
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[ABrotherinFaith]

It seems their response is beginning. In the first 3 minutes Minoru distances himself and this message from any "official" relation to the LC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZF8...ature=youtu.be

[Nell]

Originally Posted by ABrotherinFaith

It seems their response is beginning. In the first 3 minutes Minoru distances himself and this message from any "official" relation to the LC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZF8...ature=youtu.be

I don’t think I’ve ever heard an acknowledgment that the rest of the world existed in any other context but “poor, degraded, Christianity.” I would be curious to know if they will open their coffers to help, even their own, financially as surely there is unemployment among those in the churches. In fact, this could be a litmus test to see if they truly have compassion on others.

Nell

[UntoHim]

"In the New Testament, among God’s people there is no unique, definite, official, or permanent leadership; such a leadership would be an insult to the unique headship of Christ"
Practicing the Church Life under the Unique Headship of Christ - 2010 ITERO Outline

"The Lord's Recovery does not have an official, permanent, organizational, or positional leader. The only leader in the Lord's recovery is Christ."
Witness Lee - Crucial Principles for the Christian Life and the Church Life

Brothers. Why do you continue to hold up Witness Lee as an apostle on the order of the apostle Paul? Witness Lee has been dead for almost 23 years now. Why do you brothers hold Lee up as the unique, definite, official and permanent leader? Please explain your actions and your standing to the brothers and sisters in the Local Churches, to former members, and to the rest of the Body of Christ.
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[UntoHim]

Brothers,
Over the past couple of decades, since his passing, you brothers have ascribed to Witness Lee numerous apostolic titles, such as "The One Minister with the One Ministry for the Age", "Deputy Authority" and "Acting God". As you are well aware, none of these titles are found in the New Testament. Additionally, there is no biblical prophesy that God would raise up such a person(s) in post-canonical Christianity. As a matter of fact, church history has clearly demonstrated the dangers and damage that is wrought upon the church when such lofty titles of honor and authority are bestowed upon any man.

My dear brothers, the onus is on you to show that Witness Lee's claim that God only uses one man in any one "age" is biblical. The burden is on you to show how Witness Lee demonstrated that he was an apostle in the order of the apostle Paul, who was appointed directly by God as a gift to the Body of Christ. If you are going to hold up Witness Lee as such an apostle to the Body of Christ, it is your obligation to show that Lee clearly demonstrated the "signs and wonders and power" of apostleship, and not just to the sect/denomination/movement of the Local Church, but to the Body of Christ as a whole.
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[UntoHim]

"In the New Testament, among God’s people there is no unique, definite, official, or permanent leadership; such a leadership would be an insult to the unique headship of Christ"
Practicing the Church Life under the Unique Headship of Christ - 2010 ITERO Outline
"The Lord's Recovery does not have an official, permanent, organizational, or positional leader. The only leader in the Lord's recovery is Christ."
Witness Lee - Crucial Principles for the Christian Life and the Church Life

Brothers,
Not long after Witness Lee's passing, a small group of brothers associated with the Living Stream Ministry, A California 501c(3) Corp owned by Lee, claimed to have been charged/authorized by Lee himself, shortly before his death, to take over the leadership of the LSM, and by extension, leadership and control of the Local Church movement.

No official document, signed by Witness Lee, expressing his desire that any man/men take over at the LSM, much less the Local Church movement, has ever been produced - only the specious claim that "notes of such a private meeting with Lee expressing his wishes" exist at LSM. After a few years, a small cadre of men unofficially proclaimed that they were "the Blended Brothers", and that all elders, co-workers and churches throughout "The Lord's Recovery" were to follow and submit to them. Any elder, co-worker or local church that was not fully cooperative was bad-mouthed and shunned at best, and in many cases were publicly and officially "quarantined", which for all rights and purposes is actually an insidious form of excommunication.

Recently, these same cadre of men, now enlarged and bolstered by a number of other men, all proteges promoted by the original group of Blended Brothers, have proclaimed themselves de facto apostles of the Local Churches/Lord's Recovery. While they do not use the actual term "apostles", they lay claim to have the authority to appoint, discipline and remove local church elders. They have also taken it upon themselves to exercise extra-local authority to minister to and set the direction of all Local Churches within the Lord's Recovery movement.

This "leadership" practiced by you brothers at the LSM sure seems to be "unique, definite, official, and permanent". Brothers, is there some overseer group or outside board (such is common with many para-church or non-profit entities) which is in place to protect from conflicts of interest, fraud and other forms of malfeasance? Brothers, this is 2020 America and not 1920 China - There are expectations, standards and guidelines that are to be followed, even by those who consider themselves "The Universal Government of God".
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[Jay]

Originally Posted by Nell

I don’t think I’ve ever heard an acknowledgment that the rest of the world existed in any other context but “poor, degraded, Christianity.” I would be curious to know if they will open their coffers to help, even their own, financially as surely there is unemployment among those in the churches. In fact, this could be a litmus test to see if they truly have compassion on others.

Nell

I have two stories about this topic. Regarding two different brothers in one particular locality. The first brother came in from the world and was more or less very much seeking God. His name is Eric. He got baptized with us, he would stand up and prophecy, and he came to home meetings from time to time. We all knew him, knew his name, and he was a pretty nice guy who was fairly social and easy to get along with. Well he ran into some trouble with his roommate who ended up kicking him out and he was living in his work van. It was really rough on him. In his past he made some large mistakes and he did a little bit of jail time. He told me in great detail what those mistakes were, and how they happened. He was a foster child and he had been abused in the foster care system. His mistakes were not in cold blood but he paid his debt to society for them. I knew this guy personally, he rode in my car several times, I was with him in prayer meetings, and he was just always around the church for that year or so he met with us

Well his roommate was abusing his son, not Eric's son, but the rommate's son. And Eric basically beat him up for it. And the roommate kicked him out. That's how Eric became homeless. Anyway, Eric's fault was that he was too open about his past and it scared some people in this locality. I have been through a lot in my life, like a LOT, so for me to hear his stories was not incredbly shocking. And I believed him. I can usually tell when someone's lying. Eric has a good heart, but he has been thrown into a lot of messed up scenarios in his life. Anyway, Eric's mistake was that he was reaching out and yearning for shepherding and he needed a counselor to talk to and dump his problems onto. All he knew to do was to give it all up to the church. But it backfired because when he went homeless the church just turned their back on him

At one point I was in a prayer meeting with some elder brothers, right before a gospel preaching with Bibles for America. Well Eric called one of the brothers on the phone during this meeting and asked for help so he wouldn't be homeless anymore. The brother essentially just passed the buck onto someone else and recommended Eric to call a brother from a close by locality who may have had a room open for him. This seemed ok, but when this older brother got off the phone he goes "we are not a salvation Army" and laughed it off. I was really upset about that and it still sticks with me to this day

Eric was calling around to all the saints and asking for help and everyone just ignored him and let him continue to be homeless. And they went on with the church meetings and praising God and calling on the Lord joyfully like nothing at all had happened. They didn't seem to care at all about Eric's problems. They only liked him when he was sitting at their table and when he would come to meetings. But when he needed real help they just ignored him and acted like he never existed. When Eric was fresh and new and getting baptized everyone was shouting and praising God, and everyone said "AMEN" with extra emphasis when Eric would stand up to prophesy. But the moment he ran into trouble and had a need everyone turned their back on him. As far as I know no one helped him financially at all. It's possible someone helped him behind the scenes, but as far as I know nobody did anything for him

The second story is in the same locality. A brother who is disabled but couldn't get help from the state went to the elders and leading brothers to ask for financial help. They basically just deflected him back to the world and told him to keep trying to get help in the world. He had been applying for disability for over a decade and kept getting rejected. He had been trying to work several jobs and go to school and he kept having mental breakdowns until he just totally stopped trying because he didn't want to have anymore breakdowns. The brothers essentially just told him to keep trying and said they wouldn't help him. And yet LSM has millions of dollars to buy land for their full timers, trainees, and to purchase million dollar plots of land to bury their elite members

[OBW]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Brothers, why do you now refer to Witness Lee as an apostle when he never referred to himself as an apostle? As a matter of fact, in a sworn deposition, under penalty of perjury, Witness Lee clearly denied that he considered himself as an apostle, and swore under oath that he asked his followers not to refer to himself as an apostle.

I like where this thread is going. Let them hang themselves with their own rope.

But this talk about Lee not saying he was an apostle has always been a muddy thing for me. I started in the LC (Dallas) in 73 and heard the word apostle bandied about on several occasions. It wasn't Lee speaking directly, but was from various ones there in the meetings, on in talking around the meeting hall or in homes. Were any of the ones saying this "leading ones"? I can't remember.

But later, because of the claims (as you mention) in the early lawsuits, I concluded that it was just members making uninformed statements. Yet the ink had barely dried on the verdicts in those first suits when Lee was recorded as saying that he sort of liked being exalted. Are we sure that Lee didn't ever make one of those sideways claims of being an apostle? Like Nee did when he never declared himself the top dog, but asserted that you must give difference (not those words) to the one with the most spirituality. He never said that he was immune from being excommunicated, but indirectly he declared it as so in Authority and Submission (aka Spiritual Authority). Does Lee dance around the apostle issue in a similar manner?

Maybe this deserves a separate thread. I have the question but no evidence.

[OBW]

Alas, because of my sporadic appearances here over the last few years, I see that just reading a few more posts into this thread was full of the same questions I had.