Finding Biblical Context For Women 'Are More Easily Deceived'

[Curious]

Considering the teaching of the Lord’s Recovery on women; aka the half of the human race that is easily deceived and lacks discernment. Lets just take a little stroll through the ‘pure word of God’ to confirm this ‘unassailable’ truth.

Let’s look at some demonstrations of the lack of discernment and propensity to being deceived in women, and their reliance on men to keep them in line with truth.

Let’s start by gong to…The taking down of the city of Jericho. In a city full of people, only one discerned that the Israelites were the people of the one true God, and that God was the God of all humanity, and was a good and loving God. Only one person perceived that there could be a way to be rescued into their numbers by seeking an opportunity to connect with their spies. Of course, it would have to be a man that would be so able to avoid the deception of his own religious system, and to discern a way that God could enable such a connection to happen. Probably a Noah, or Abraham equivalent. A man who had kept himself clean and lived an upstanding and holy life, yes that’s the type of man that could have been an unhappy Canaanite living in a godless city and believing for a better life with the people of God. After all, this person is noble enough to end up in the lineage of Jesus himself!

[Check out the account in the book of Joshua, chapters 2 and 6, Matthew 1:5 and James 2:25]

Now let’s visit David, surviving in the wilderness, but doing it tough. In desperate need of food and supplies for his men, he approaches a man named Nabal, who wanted to help David, as a discerning male. Yet his wife, Abigail sent insults back to David instead. This nearly caused David to break out in a violent attack on Nabal’s household. Only the wise and discerning Nabal saved the day by negating his foolish and short-sighted Wife’s intentions and bravely approaching the furious David directly with an apology and the provision David had requested.

[Check out the story in 1 Samuel chapter 25]

Next let’s look at the divine conception. Naturally God spoke to Joseph about this first, as the male and the authority over her. Poor dear Mary would not have been able to discern an angel speaking to her, after all, being an easily deceived woman without discernment. And of course, God can only speak to a woman through her husband, so she had to wait to hear it from him to learn what was happening to her in becoming mysteriously pregnant. That must’ve been a bit tough on her, but what else can God do when all daughters of Eve are thusly unable?

[From Luke 1;26-38]

Not long before Jesus death, he was sitting in a house of a Simon the leper, in a room with his 12 male disciples. Amongst them, someone got up and preformed the priestly duty of anointing his body for burial. One person in that room felt the leading of the Holy Spirit to do so, no one else had a clue what was going on except Jesus and the person performing the anointing. Naturally, it could only be a man, firstly, to have such a discernment and secondly, only a man could perform the priestly duties. Yes, absolutely had to be a man.

[Found in the book of Matthew 26:6-13]

Another telling story is that of Pilate and his wife. Pilate felt, from a dream he had the night before, that he should have nothing to do with the crucifixion of Jesus, yet his wife pressed him to use this as an opportunity to further his career. Poor deceived woman, going for the temporary things and ignorant of the spiritual level of what was taking place.

[Matthew 27:19-26, and Luke 23:12]

Do these stories back the notion that women cannot discern and are easily deceived? Or is it as often as not that women are the ones WITH the discernment? And wouldn’t these biblical accounts of events unfold differently if WL’s ideas were actually supported by the bible?

I have one last and obscure point. MAYBE Eve was more easily deceived than Adam because she was younger than him and had therefore had less time and opportunity to develop her relationship with God directly. If men can also be deceived and women can sin deliberately, then the two propensities exist throughout human nature and are not gender exclusive. Maybe the real lesson is to get to know God and remain close to Him to avoid either mistake of being deceived OR caught up in wilful disobedience?

Maybe even Pauls words to women to be ‘silent’ in the church were not God casting a prohibition on all women for all time, as the words ‘listen’ and ‘silence’ in the English language contain the exact same letters as each other, maybe Gods message to us is to ‘listen’ to God to get to know Him and His ways, and that protects us all from being too quick to air our assumptions and be easily deceived! Just a thought.

[Ohio]

There is no record that God told Eve directly about not eating of the tree. She must have heard 2nd hamd from Adam. Perhaps the message was altered. Adam transgressed God's command, but the record did not say that Eve also transgressed.

[Curious]

Personally I believe man and woman are equally responsible for the fall. they both transgressed and a battle of the sexes over it is not helpful. They both faced consequences, as they were both guilty.

Also, though WL officially stated that women can't interpret the bible and are more easily deceived, yet in the end, though he didn't say it of men, it amounts to the same for either gender. Everyone in the LC relies on the interpreted word, not their own flow, and recites WL's writings in the same way, and its called prophecying. I think a controlling group often targets women more openly as it is easy to do, but in the end the goal is to control all.

I spiced up my post here with a bit of sarcasm in parts which somewhat regret. I don't mean to have a go at anyone, except WL's doctrines. He did not make that one up himself though. It, and harsher interpretations of the implications of the fall for women, are found elsewhere in the Christian world.

I did think my crazy format to contradict those sexist interpretations to be an effective and unpredictable way to illustrate a point. To make one think! I am a bit outside the box though!!

[aron]

Originally Posted by Curious

Also, though WL officially stated that women can't interpret the bible and are more easily deceived, yet in the end, though he didn't say it of men, it amounts to the same for either gender.

Then WL or his Blended acolytes should admit that Watchman Nee was also easily deceived by absorbing Jessie Penn-Lewis' thoughts and channeling it in his book "Spiritual Man", such that the publisher had to acknowledge this in the Second Edition Preface.

(Speaking of which, when Nee & Lee were found plagiarizing they said it was just a cultural misunderstanding, in China when you copy that's showing respect.[But of course there's no fallen human culture in the LC!])

And then Lee also was easily deceived, repeatedly citing Mary McDonough as an authoritative source for his "three parts of man" idea, and selling her book "God's Plan of Redemption" on his LSM website. In LC meetings, the names of these "lionesses of recovery" were intoned in reverence, yet moments later people would be informed that women couldn't handle the spiritual load.

Originally Posted by Curious

I think a controlling group often targets women more openly as it is easy to do, but in the end the goal is to control all.

The reason women are put down in the LC is to remove 50% of all potential rivals. They were used to get power (ME Barber, McDonough, Miss Elizabeth Fischbacher, Ruth Lee, Peace Wang, Penn-Lewis, Dora Yu, Jean Guyon &c) but once power was held they were dumped because, well you know, the Bible says...

But if you google "Watchman Nee Elizabeth Fischbacher" or "Witness Lee Ruth Lee Peace Wang" you'll see how instrumental, essential even, they were to the rise of the Little Flock in mainland China.

[Sons to Glory!]

It was that woman that You gave me!

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

It was that woman You gave me!

In Adam's reply to God, we see the tragic result of disobeying God by eating the forbidden fruit in the garden. In these few brief words exposing his suddenly corrupted reasoning, Adam accuses both God and his wife, and excuses himself. (Romans 2.15) Meanwhile the fourth person in the narrative, the Sneaky Serpent, slides away at large. This brief story has thus been repeated in every relationship since.

[Curious]

I realise that I have more to say….

Now let’s consider the account of Judah and Tamar, his daughter in law. Found in Genesis chapter 38.

This is just my take on it. I’m not a biblical expert. Nor a theorist. I’m a real-life-ist perhaps. If there is such a thing.

Judah had 3 sons. The eldest married a young lady named Tamar. He did something evil that the bible doesn’t give any detail of. God kills him. As is the custom, to protect the widow, the next son marries her, but also displeases God and God kills him too. Judah then withholds his third son from Tamar, scared that the same fate may befall him too, should he marry Tamar. He handles it by lying to her about it and just fails to honour both the custom and his word to her.

Next, having lost 2 of his 3 sons, if that weren’t enough for poor Judah, his wife dies too. That’s a lot for anyone to take.

Tamar is left, having done no wrong, in the situation where she will not be able to marry. Stuck at home with her dad, her prospects are grim. Yet she is not one to take injustice lying down. She has a plan.

Now, widows and orphans are the poorest people in the bible. Both NT and OT. I want to say this about prostitution. For most of history, and for most of the world, prostitution is another word for poverty. Poverty and desperation. I don’t know if this prospect was one Tamar would have been forced into for her survival, its just an idea of mine. certainly she would have been stigmatised against any other prospect for marriage, and outside of male protection, women’s prospects weren’t good.

So, in a very bold and tactical move, she covers her face, dresses in the attire of a prostitute, and makes herself available to Judah. Judah takes the bait pretty eagerly and Tamar becomes pregnant to him. When awareness of her pregnancy is brought to Judah, he is quick to pronounce judgment on her of the harshest kind…to burn her to death! In spite of the fact that it had been overlooked that Judah had failed to provide his third son to her, as he should have. Its only when its proved that he is the cause of her pregnancy that Judah humbles himself and repents unconditionally.

When she gives birth there are 2 sons, so the blessing for Judah is he lost two sons, but after repenting, he gains 2 sons in place of the ones he lost. God restored. Like Job, who was blessed with more children after his ordeal.

What to make of this story?

1. With God, mercy triumphs over the Law. (the very middle scripture in the whole bible states just that!) Mercy is only available to the humble, humility comes with repentance, which comes with losing faith in ourselves as we see our own sinfulness. Just as David humbled himself before Nathan the prophet when confronted. Like Jacob as he spoke to pharaoh in his old age, acknowledging his failures, (in my opinion). The blessing comes with humility and repentance. Judah was pleasing to God when he repented.

2. God honoured Tamar in her effort to acquire justice in a system that was not gong to provide it to her. I’m sure He could’ve done it in a morally acceptable way if she had sought Him, she was a Canaanite and not familiar with the knowledge of God. Her treatment by her two husbands and father-in-law had possibly not helped her to understand God in a way that would have given her the best impression of the God they served! Tamar's plan was certainly practical and effective!!

This story again highlights that God can be validating the cause of the woman in a situation. But my point this time, is that regardless of your gender, when you are mistreated by those in authority, it is ok to stand up for yourself. Tamar did and God brought justice to her, regardless of the way she went about it, even! If she had been passive and helpless, she would have lived with the consequences of injustice against her, and she would have suffered for it.

Its also true that Judah benefitted from her assertiveness, and risk taking. He would not otherwise have learnt humility and righteousness either, which God was very pleased with him for. Jesus’ genealogy includes them both. True righteousness comes with that humility. Getting away with wrongdoing harms the offender too, and robs them of the opportunity to be faced with their failure, correct it, and be made right with God and man.

If you are scared to stand up for yourself, I hope you can be strengthened by this account. It’s in the word of God, and its for people of all time, where justice is not being offered to those who are unprotected and mistreated. Take courage, take heart. Be bold when required and know that God is a God of justice. Pray lots always so that your heart and spirit are protected, and that you have guidance for the way to resist harm from others.

God is not a God of fairness, life is not fair, but justice and fairness are not the same thing. That can be a hard thing to accept. He promises justice to those who seek it from him, even though life has been unfair.

that's my little rant for today!

[aron]

Curious, great post. Many were encouraged to see Jo and Greg Casteel stand up. It is not wrong to seek rightness. "Seek ye first the kingdom of God and His rightousness, and everything else will be added to you."

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by aron

Curious, great post. Many were encouraged to see Jo and Greg Casteel stand up. It is not wrong to seek rightness. "Seek ye first the kingdom of God and His rightousness, and everything else will be added to you."

If Luther, and others like Huss before him, hadn't "stood up," we wouldn't have had the so-called reformation!

[Curious]

Thankyou, guys for your support to my possibly unconventional take on that account. It prompts me to add the following:

If we think of Rahab the harlot, as a victim of abuse and exploitation, (which provides context for why she could hate the life she had to the point that she could betray her people and city so completely), then we can see that it can take only one abuse victim, taking action, to bring down a whole evil structure. The whole city was brought to the ground.

As well it brought her into a new life where she was married and able to live a dignified life, one deprived of her in jericho.

[Trapped]

Great posts, Curious, all of them.

I'm not sure whether to bring it up, but it's highly relevant to the thread title. What on earth do we do with these verses in 1 Timothy 2?

11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission.
12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.
13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.

The reason I say I'm not sure whether to bring it up is because I know there have been many many many papers and articles and commentaries out there written about this verse and the meaning of "assume authority" in the original language, with no consensus, and I'm not sure we'll reach an "aha, this is what Paul meant!" conclusion here either.

I personally read the verses and cringe. It makes it sounds like females function on half a brain, and I know enough of them to know they don't. But the verses are there and thus have to be contended with. Any thoughts?

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Curious

Thankyou, guys for your support to my possibly unconventional take on that account. It prompts me to add the following:

If we think of Rahab the harlot, as a victim of abuse and exploitation, (which provides context for why she could hate the life she had to the point that she could betray her people and city so completely), then we can see that it can take only one abuse victim, taking action, to bring down a whole evil structure. The whole city was brought to the ground.

As well it brought her into a new life where she was married and able to live a dignified life, one deprived of her in jericho.

Here is what Witness Lee had to say about Rahab in the life study of Matthew #3:
K. Rahab
We proceed to Rahab (v. 5). Rahab was a harlot in Jericho (Josh. 2:1), a place cursed by God for eternity. Although she was a harlot in such a place, she became a grandmother of Christ. How could a harlot become a grandmother of Christ? In order to answer this question, we need to find the principles. The entire population of Jericho was destroyed except Rahab, her family, and her possessions. She was saved because she turned to God and God’s people (Josh. 6:22-23, 25; Heb. 11:31). After she turned to God and His people, she married Salmon, a leader in the army of the leading tribe of Judah and one of the men sent by Joshua to spy out Jericho. At that time, Salmon became acquainted with Rahab and, in a sense, saved her. Eventually, Rahab married him, and they brought forth a godly man named Boaz.

Pretty amazing.

Nell