The Bridge and Channel of God - The Early Lee

[JJ]

I recall reading the first part of Witness Lee’s book The Bridge and Channel of God (based on messages he spoke in Manila in 1953) and being really turned off by it (and the Holy Spirit never let me finish it). Isn’t this book proof “the early Lee” was really no different than “the later Lee”?

[JJ]

Originally Posted by JJ

I recall reading the first part of Witness Lee’s book The Bridge and Channel of God (based on messages he spoke in Manila in 1953) and being really turned off by it (and the Holy Spirit never let me finish it). Isn’t this book proof “the early Lee” was really no different than “the later Lee”?

OK, so I’ve killed off quite a few great discussions with preachy, overly wordy, or nerdy posts but this is a new record, not one response. Too bad, I really wanted to know what others thought about my OP. In fairness to Lee and LSM copyright I was hoping to avoid posting small pieces of this many page book here to get the discussion going.

Is this really a dead topic I’m attempting to resurrect that is better left dead?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by JJ

I recall reading the first part of Witness Lee’s book The Bridge and Channel of God (based on messages he spoke in Manila in 1953) and being really turned off by it (and the Holy Spirit never let me finish it). Isn’t this book proof “the early Lee” was really no different than “the later Lee”?

Originally Posted by JJ

OK, so I’ve killed off quite a few great discussions with preachy, overly wordy, or nerdy posts but this is a new record, not one response. Too bad, I really wanted to know what others thought about my OP. In fairness to Lee and LSM copyright I was hoping to avoid posting small pieces of this many page book here to get the discussion going.

Is this really a dead topic I’m attempting to resurrect that is better left dead?

Hi JJ, I think I started this "early Lee -- later Lee" paradigm in an attempt to explain the changes which took place in Lee's ministry. Over time, I realized that both Darby and Nee also also had changes in their ministries in a similar way. The many changes which I used to define this transition could be summarized as a "power grab."

Many posters, however, pushed back on my ideas, including our beloved moderator. How dare I say that WL was ever good? They provided evidence, such as the book you mentioned, to contradict my views. My ideas were developed to help explain why I came here in the first place, i.e. "how could something so good become so bad?"

Admittedly things were not perfect in the beginning, but the blessing of God and the anointing Spirit were definitely present, not because of Lee, but because of His children seeking Him. It's really a shame that Lee tried to take credit for the glory of God, and in doing so, ended up destroying what ever good was there.

[JJ]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Hi JJ, I think I started this "early Lee -- later Lee" paradigm in an attempt to explain the changes which took place in Lee's ministry. Over time, I realized that both Darby and Nee also also had changes in their ministries in a similar way. The many changes which I used to define this transition could be summarized as a "power grab."

Many posters, however, pushed back on my ideas, including our beloved moderator. How dare I say that WL was ever good? They provided evidence, such as the book you mentioned, to contradict my views. My ideas were developed to help explain why I came here in the first place, i.e. "how could something so good become so bad?"

Admittedly things were not perfect in the beginning, but the blessing of God and the anointing Spirit were definitely present, not because of Lee, but because of His children seeking Him. It's really a shame that Lee tried to take credit for the glory of God, and in doing so, ended up destroying what ever good was there.

Yes, thanks for filling me in. I have ended up having a similar experience because God used TLR to finally break through my resistance to the gospel, and saved me there. Then I had mostly good (and many strange and not so good) experiences there for seven years. Then bam! What I thought was a sweet church life turned incredibly bitter almost overnight. And I have spent and continue to spend far too much time trying to understand, learn from it, move on, and warn others about it. My conclusion after 5 years on these boards now mirrors yours. I’m also convinced the blessing was also related to the fact that in those days (1970’s and early 1980’s) we actually had our Bibles open, were reading them, and saints were testifying, praying and praising the Lord from that and not just “what Brother Lee or Nee said”. Over time that was increasingly restricted to “just from LSM” and the freedom and joy of the Holy Spirit became much, much less. Too bad!



Sounds like But, if anyone wants to see why Ohio and I think this book could be Exhibit A for checking if early Lee and later Lee were different (and see the answer was “not much” just minor terminology changes), need only read the last two paragraphs of the first chapter where Lee talks about God desiring to mingle himself with man so man can become a god-man in nature but not godhead. This was 1953. Forty-one years later that was his “High Peak Revelation” (making it sound like a new thing).

[JJ]

Since a judge or jury won’t convict on one piece of evidence... In Chapters 6-8 of the subject book I found:

A very good section where Witness Lee encourages the saints in Manila to be open to the Holy Spirit’s leading;

Lee says “man is the way” (not Jesus, really);

Lee praises when a preacher put a young sister on the spot for the clothes she was wearing;

Blames the saints in Manila for not gospelizing all of the Phiilipines in the years of their existence as the church in Manila;

Advocates “systematic service”;

Tells those who want to serve in the church to “look for one in authority to be under and submit to their authority”;

And he talks about the church in Manila’s sixteen week training

Same old Lee. Meet the new boss. He’s the same as the old boss

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXrmQBPg2s0

[byHismercy]

Originally Posted by JJ

Yes, thanks for filling me in. I have ended up having a similar experience because God used TLR to finally break through my resistance to the gospel, and saved me there. Then I had mostly good (and many strange and not so good) experiences there for seven years. Then bam! What I thought was a sweet church life turned incredibly bitter almost overnight. And I have spent and continue to spend far too much time trying to understand, learn from it, move on, and warn others about it. My conclusion after 5 years on these boards now mirrors yours. I’m also convinced the blessing was also related to the fact that in those days (1970’s and early 1980’s) we actually had our Bibles open, were reading them, and saints were testifying, praying and praising the Lord from that and not just “what Brother Lee or Nee said”. Over time that was increasingly restricted to “just from LSM” and the freedom and joy of the Holy Spirit became much, much less. Too bad!



Sounds like But, if anyone wants to see why Ohio and I think this book could be Exhibit A for checking if early Lee and later Lee were different (and see the answer was “not much” just minor terminology changes), need only read the last two paragraphs of the first chapter where Lee talks about God desiring to mingle himself with man so man can become a god-man in nature but not godhead. This was 1953. Forty-one years later that was his “High Peak Revelation” (making it sound like a new thing).

JJ, I really would like to read your introductory post, but I couldn't find it. Do you remember the title?

[JJ]

Originally Posted by byHismercy

JJ, I really would like to read your introductory post, but I couldn't find it. Do you remember the title?

I have not been able to find it either. Maybe it is like an ROUS and doesn’t exist. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXjl1eMczN0

I just posted “my testimony” as a new thread.

[UntoHim]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Many posters, however, pushed back on my ideas, including our beloved moderator. How dare I say that WL was ever good? They provided evidence, such as the book you mentioned, to contradict my views. My ideas were developed to help explain why I came here in the first place, i.e. "how could something so good become so bad?"

One of the problems with this "how could something so good become so bad?" notion is that it creates a kind of false dilemma. The simple truth is that all movements of man are probably never quite as good as we might think, and they are probably never quite as bad as we might think. None of us like to think that we were that deceived, or that our experiences of the Lord, or the blessings of oneness with others, were somehow invalided by the sins of one man. But if we did have genuine experiences of the Lord, they are just that - genuine experiences of the Lord. Nothing anyone says today can invalidate those experiences we had.

Some of us only have so much energy and so much time. I prefer to use my energy and my time on this forum to speak what I know to be the truth about the false teachings and practices originally taught and propagated by Witness Lee, and now are taught and propagated by the Blended Brothers. Other forum members might have the inclination to speak of the positive experiences and blessings of years gone by. No Problem! I have neither encouraged nor discouraged such speaking on the forum, and I never will. What I do discourage is not being respectful and accurate about what our fellow forum members have posted about Witness Lee, or any other brother or sister.

[JJ]

I’m struck by the divergence between today’s “Quotes and Quips” on this site’s main page: “God became man that dehumanized men might become true men.
We become true men in the community of the incarnate, the suffering and loving,
the human God.” and Lee’s so-called High Peak Truth “God became man so that man might become God in life and nature but not in the godhead”. I much prefer the first!

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Hi[B]Admittedly things were not perfect in the beginning, but the blessing of God and the anointing Spirit were definitely present, not because of Lee, but because of His children seeking Him. It's really a shame that Lee tried to take credit for the glory of God, and in doing so, ended up destroying what ever good was there.

I admit that I have been one of the strongest naysayers. But in these two senteces you said it right. And another way of saying that is that the people of the LRC had a chance at something at least somewhat special, but unfortunately it came with baggage — Lee — and it was doomed from the start. It just took time to come to that conclusion.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by OBW

I admit that I have been one of the strongest naysayers. But in these two senteces you said it right. And another way of saying that is that the people of the LRC had a chance at something at least somewhat special, but unfortunately it came with baggage — Lee — and it was doomed from the start. It just took time to come to that conclusion.

Several posters here -- Elden1971, Hosepipe, etc -- have said that Elden Hall was a blessed place when WL was just one of several ministers, and then the blessing ended when WL became THE minister.

Then Romans 12.3 raised its ugly head to destroy a good thing?

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Then Romans 12.3 raised its ugly head to destroy a good thing?

I had to laugh at this sentence. (in a good way)

It is too true.

But it also seems soooo wrong because the verse is not saying that thinking more highly of yourself is going to happen and cause problems, but that we should not think more highly of ourselves so that this kind of thing does not happen. Taken that way, Rom 12:3 should mean that there would be no Lee rearing HIS ugly head. And imagine if that had been the case.

But in this particular environment, it is what the verse warns against that is what happened. And thus the very correct application of the verse to the early LRC in the US.

[Weighingin]

Was this part of the Collected Works of WL?? Or was it printed as a book before the compiling of his ministry? I don’t want to spend any more on LSM materials.

[JJ]

Originally Posted by Weighingin

Was this part of the Collected Works of WL?? Or was it printed as a book before the compiling of his ministry? I don’t want to spend any more on LSM materials.

I first saw it as a separate book in 2005 when one of my close friends who hadn’t left (but I had) gave it to me. I’m with you on LSM books generally but will delve back into them when I remember a topic I’d like to discuss on these boards. I don’t think it right or fair to speak about something Nee, or Lee, or a Blended Bro said (and/or was printed) without providing the reader an opportunity to read it in its context and as completely as they wish. But, I share your pain

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Weighingin

Was this part of the Collected Works of WL?? Or was it printed as a book before the compiling of his ministry? I don’t want to spend any more on LSM materials.

It's available to read online at ministrybooks.org.

Click the "books A-Z" link at the top left, then "B", then scroll to the title.