"Church" is not in the Bible!

[Sons to Glory!]

Why do translations use the word "church"!?!? It is a really bad substitution for the Greek word "ekklesia," which means "assembly" or "called-out gathering." Translator William Tyndale was adamant not to follow the King James translators in substituting the word church, and used the much more accurate "congregation."

King James wanted it in there, evidently, because calling Christian gatherings "congregations" might infer something of an independent body and he wanted to have better control of these. The original Old English/German word came from "kirche," meaning The Lord's House, or building. James could also much better control physical property, which "church" implied.

From there it was a slippery slope and many today therefore equate the physical building with church, which is just sad. So why do current translators - and the rest of us - continue this highly egregious error today?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

Why do translations use the word "church"!?!? It is a really bad substitution for the Greek word "ekklesia," which means "assembly" or "called-out gathering." Translator William Tyndale was adamant not to follow the King James translators in substituting the word church, and used the much more accurate "congregation."

King James wanted it in there, evidently, because calling Christian gatherings "congregations" might infer something of an independent body and he wanted to have better control of these. The original Old English/German word came from "kirche," meaning The Lord's House, or building. James could also much better control physical property, which "church" implied.

From there it was a slippery slope and many today therefore equate the physical building with church, which is just sad. So why do current translators - and the rest of us - continue this highly egregious error today?

Partly superstition, partly tradition! It's not really an "error," just a little "misleading," depending on your point of view.

King James was shrewd. He called his own translation the "authorized" version of the Bible. For hundreds of years the "Church" of England (with all her colonies) mandated the exclusive use of the KJV. This stranglehold was not broken until the late 19th century. Numerous scholars like Westcott and Hort, and Nestle, published new Greek Texts. Brethren scholars like Tregelles, Kelly, and Darby also worked to provide much needed improvements to the English translation.

By then much better Greek manuscripts were available. Textual Criticism was improving with many excellent scholars. Christian Bible scholarship had made numerous advances. And the English language itself had changed from that of the early 17th century. Koine (commoner) Greek and Shakespearean (formal) English often did not match.

Today many Christians think that God Himself actually authorized this version. I like to ask them, "but what if I only can read Spanish, which version did God "authorize" for me?"

Unfortunately far too many KJVisms remain with us today. W. Lee in his RecVer (under Ingalls, Knoch, and Duane) initially used "church." When Lee sought to publish the revised RecVer using minor changes (under Robichaux), he initially used "assembly" instead. Then he finally reverted back to "church" hoping for wider acceptance among the Christian public.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Partly superstition, partly tradition! It's not really an "error," just a little "misleading," depending on your point of view.

W. Lee in his RecVer (under Ingalls, Knoch, and Duane) initially used "church." When Lee sought to publish the revised RecVer using minor changes (under Robichaux), he initially used "assembly" instead. Then he finally reverted back to "church" hoping for wider acceptance among the Christian public.

I think it's an error. Why substitute one word for another, when the word's meaning can easily be translated? "Church" is sometimes associated with the medieval Greek word "kurikon" meaning Lord's house. While there seems to be some quasi-connection here, ekklesia certainly doesn't mean Lord's house, and should never have been translated as church. (FYI: ekklesia is used 114 in the NT according to Strong's Concordance)

In looking at Biblehub.com, out of the 29 versions listed, I do see five translations (International Standard Version; Jubilee Bible 2000; Darby Bible; Word English Bible; Young's Literal) that properly translate ekklesia as assembly or congregation (as Tyndale also did). This shows how much sway the "Authorized" KJV has had over the last 500 years!

And I didn't know that about the Recovery Version - too bad Lee caved.

[awareness]

The word ekklesia is nothing special. The Romans used it for their assemblies long before Jesus, Paul, or the gospels were written. So the Hellenized Christians used it in the NT.

Church means the building. When I go to church, I go to a building.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by awareness

The word ekklesia is nothing special. The Romans used it for their assemblies long before Jesus, Paul, or the gospels were written. So the Hellenized Christians used it in the NT.

Church means the building. When I go to church, I go to a building.

Yup, that's right! And Jesus said He would built His ekklesia, not His church.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

Yup, that's right! And Jesus said He would built His ekklesia, not His church.

Right. Jesus wasn't into building buildings. Two or three is his ekklesia/assembly.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

Why do translations use the word "church"!?!? It is a really bad substitution for the Greek word "ekklesia," which means "assembly" or "called-out gathering." Translator William Tyndale was adamant not to follow the King James translators in substituting the word church, and used the much more accurate "congregation."

King James wanted it in there, evidently, because calling Christian gatherings "congregations" might infer something of an independent body and he wanted to have better control of these. The original Old English/German word came from "kirche," meaning The Lord's House, or building. James could also much better control physical property, which "church" implied.

From there it was a slippery slope and many today therefore equate the physical building with church, which is just sad. So why do current translators - and the rest of us - continue this highly egregious error today?

Bringing to the top for further review of “What is the church really.” thread.