Spiritual Warfare

[Nell]

Spiritual Warfare

What do we know?
Luke 22:31-32 (KJV)
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

This verse has always been chilling to me, as well as encouraging.
Spiritual Warfare is real and often minimized and dismissed as something that doesn't happen today. How can anyone look around at this world today and NOT believe that Spiritual Warfare is real.

Because of the following post on another thread and many others like it lately, it should be obvious that something is going on that needs to be discussed and call it what it is: Spiritual Warfare.

Originally Posted by Unregistered
I grew up in this church. It took tremendous courage to #walkaway @ 18. I have spent many hours to re-write my brain from the deleterious effects of this wicked cult.
...
$250,000 of therapy later...I'm still working Mr. Lee's energetic teachings of severe separation out of my system. I believe people are taught to actually pray and curse against people in prayer meetings. Some dense and wicked energy moves through the vacant soul's, unfortunately, I don't think it is the love of Christ. Over time people shut down their heart more and more and more and are easily controlled. You must have a low self esteem to begin with and it will degrade slowly over time.
...

The Local Church of Witness Lee, as horrific as it is being exposed to be, is not the source of the problem. It’s much more sinister than that. How is that possible?

Ephesians 6:12 (KJV) 12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Based on Ephesians 6:12, this statement is absolutely true:

"I believe people are taught to actually pray and curse against people in prayer meetings. Some dense and wicked energy moves through the vacant soul's..."

How long has this been going on? Long before the Local Church ever existed.

Genesis 3:14-15
14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

God's enemny has been fighting against God's people ever since enmity was declared between Satan and the woman.

The topic created by Igzy in 2008 are timely and appropriate today…11 years later and will be appropriate until God’s enemy is ultimately dealt with. No one gets a free pass. The LC leadership knows these truths as well as we do, yet close their eyes to the truth in God’s word, excusing their own toxic behavior at the expense of their brothers and sisters.

Nell

[Nell]

Watch the following excellent video by Neil T. Anderson.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FBC4G1hU90

It's a Q&A on Spiritual Warfare, but you can't hear the questions. However, the answers are excellent.

Nell

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Nell

Watch the following excellent video by Neil T. Anderson.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FBC4G1hU90

It's a Q&A on Spiritual Warfare, but you can't hear the questions. However, the answers are excellent.

Nell

Bringing this to the top.

Nell

[byHismercy]

Nell, I have heard the idea floating around christianson that when people speak to (or try) the dead, what they end up communicating with are unclean spirits. I think that makes a lot of sense. What do you think?

And back to Minorus' thing with Lees' spirit, I do think there is an element of necromancy there, even though Aron very eloquently explains the foreign guangxi network. Or if it was just an attempt to honor Lee as guangxi nest building.....it seems to me this is straying dangerously close to the edge of what God asks us to avoid....necromancy.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by byHismercy

Nell, I have heard the idea floating around christianson that when people speak to (or try) the dead, what they end up communicating with are unclean spirits. I think that makes a lot of sense. What do you think?

BHM--

It does make sense because of verses like Isaiah 8:19. While this verse doesn't specifically say people who attempt to communicate with the dead are communicating with unclean spirits, it does say DON'T DO IT. Why talk at the dead when you can talk to God Himself? I'm looking at the specific language of other verses.

Isaiah 8:19 And when they say to you, “Inquire of the mediums and the necromancers who chirp and mutter,” should not a people inquire of their God? Should they inquire of the dead on behalf of the living?

Good questions: why should we not inquire of God? Why inquire of the dead on behalf of the living? How offensive must it be to the One who died for us that we would seek counsel from the dead?

I did a search on the word "necromancy" and found list after list of 25, 28, etc. verses on what the Bible says about necromancy. There is no shortage of information on the topic and so far, none of the verses say necromancy is OK.

And back to Minorus' thing with Lees' spirit, I do think there is an element of necromancy there, even though Aron very eloquently explains the foreign guangxi network. Or if it was just an attempt to honor Lee as guangxi nest building.....it seems to me this is straying dangerously close to the edge of what God asks us to avoid....necromancy.

As for Minoru, I don't know his heart. I would ask him the same questions Isaiah 8:19 asks. I would also ask, isn't it enough that Jesus lives in us?

When he says "the spirit of Witness Lee lives in me" we have no way of knowing what he actually means...Guanxi network or not. I don't know and I can't know. I do believe there is no context that makes such expression a Christian teaching, it's unscriptural if not heretical. As such, this teaching crosses a line that should never be taught by a Christian to other Christians. God's word commands us not to practice necromancy. Period.

I just checked shepherdingwords.org for any kind of response. Crickets.

Nell

[byHismercy]

Crickets from the Coworkers of North America???? Amazing. What can they say? They cannot defend Minorus' words, they cannot justify his words, and they seem to be unable to retract any blunder or outright heresy they preach. Unless you count all the, ''oh, he didn't really mean what he said'' or the ''yes, he said that, but it doesn't mean what you think it means''..........

And repentance? That would be to lose face. The Coworkers don't do repentance. That I have seen.

[Curious]

Originally Posted by byHismercy

Nell, I have heard the idea floating around christianson that when people speak to (or try) the dead, what they end up communicating with are unclean spirits. I think that makes a lot of sense. What do you think?

And back to Minorus' thing with Lees' spirit, I do think there is an element of necromancy there, even though Aron very eloquently explains the foreign guangxi network. Or if it was just an attempt to honor Lee as guangxi nest building.....it seems to me this is straying dangerously close to the edge of what God asks us to avoid....necromancy.

I wish to clarify my own statement in response to aron's assessment of the whole picture of the guanxi network. I would not want anyone to conclude that I don't fully support the idea of ancestor worship being a demonically empowered practise. It's just that it is also a component of the practise of guanxi networking. It helps that end. Within a Taoist household it no doubt is useful in many other ways too, to achieve various ends, therefore it has a strong and familiar hold in the culture and thinking of the persons reliant on it. I just wanted to clarify that. One aspect of the practise does not nullify another, according to my understanding of things.

I have experienced the dark side of the spirit realm through being exposed directly to 2 non-western cultures on a deeply personal level. Otherwise I would never have believed these things, they can sound nutty to the 'Western' mind. I can't deny what I have learned through direct experience.

'Straying dangerously close to the edge' is to me an understatement. MC's words and reference are well OVER the edge. Probably the tip of an iceberg. What is declared aloud is likely just a hint of what is really there. The meaning of the word 'occult' includes 'hidden', 'secret'. What's declared openly will be only very little of what is actually there. Somewhere I read that Nimrod practised spiritism openly but messing around with dark powers became a secretive practise, as a reaction to God dividing up humanity after the tower of Babel.

For example, 'Tantra' is the secretive dark side of Hinduism. Even false religions carry the face of being good, when what is deep inside is demon worship and practise. I have a Sri Lankan friend, (not a Christian, or a believer in the supernatural) who, while visiting Sri Lanka, caught an elephant handler whisper something into his cupped hand when an elephant charged their group. The elephant backed off immediately and my astonished friend asked the handler what he had said or done. He was very unhappy he had been observed and would not engage in conversation about it. To be powerful, it must be hidden. Open referencing is a sign it is safely established in deception and will be only the tip of the iceberg... this is just my opinion based on my own experience and belief on how this stuff works. (I could give many more personal examples of this but chose the one above for my own identity protection only).

My overall advice is, don't trust easily when it comes to this stuff. Don't assume it is less. Be very wary about anything referencing the demonic in a positive way. It is nasty, nasty stuff and the only power in the universe that can deal with it is the blood of Jesus and the power of his name spoken in the mouth of a true believer, and the presence of the Holy Spirit. Stick with that and the darkness flees, every time.

[Nell]

Curious,

I’ll add to your list: “truth”. That is, the truth of God’s word. It’s important to be educated about what goes on in the spirit world. Your post is very helpful. The most important thing, I believe, is to realize this fight has already been won. That fight was won in Gen. 3 when God cursed the serpent and blessed the woman. This victory was consummated on the cross of Jesus. Our job is to simply stand and speak the truth of His victory which was won on the cross. Truth is the only way to expose a lie. (You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free.)

I pray that Minoru will wake up!

I can’t say enough about the NTA interview. He shares some of his “truth encounters”. It’s 45 min. and well worth the time. It really puts spiritual warfare in perspective. It’s not about “demons around every corner”. It’s about standing in truth which has already defeated the enemy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FBC4G1hU90

If we “know our enemy”, we are much less likely to give the little creep more credit than he deserves.

Nell

[aron]

Originally Posted by Curious

One aspect of the practise does not nullify another, according to my understanding of things..

There's a demonic element, or aspect, that occasionally becomes plain, like Minoru's statement. In 1997 I heard that the "age of spiritual giants is over" and a new era in Christian history had begun. No biblical text was offered. When you see a group of people gather around a dead person's empty chair, as they had when it was occupied, there's a demonic element arguably at work.

Earlier, whilst with FTTA, I tried pointing out the pattern (gospels/Acts/epistles) of attention, care and assistance for the poor, weak, sick, and disenfranchised, which NT experience had fulfillment-of-prophecy overtones from OT. I saw these suggestions actively suppressed by LC "trainers" with no biblical justification: "Don't waste your time." Instead it was, memorise bullet points, go to meetings, recruit "good building material" on the college campus, and get them to recruit others. And, in this we're closely following the apostles? How so?

Unfettered culture can be a vehicle for demonic forces. The LC problem is that: 1) its Chinese founders didn't see the effect of their own culture; and 2) they successfully sold it as "spiritual" to naïve ones who lacked discernment. Poster Curious was fortunate to smell a rat, a non-divine aspect, and move away. Many were not so fortunate.

But all of us wrestle with such forces, and Nell's recommendations are worth considering. (There are resources out there.... some of the FB posters offered links as well) None of us have all the answers, but we all have a piece of the answer, which (to me) is found in the name of Jesus Christ.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Nell

"I believe people are taught to actually pray and curse against people in prayer meetings. Some dense and wicked energy moves through the vacant soul's..."

How long has this been going on? Long before the Local Church ever existed

9 And Pilate answered them, saying, Will ye that I release unto you the King of the Jews? 10 For he perceived that for envy the chief priests had delivered him up. 11 But the chief priests stirred up the multitude, that he should rather release Barabbas unto them. 12 And Pilate again answered and said unto them, What then shall I do unto him whom ye call the King of the Jews? 13 And they cried out again, Crucify him. 14 And Pilate said unto them, Why, what evil hath he done? But they cried out exceedingly, Crucify him.

It is the fellowship of His sufferings.