How do you know God cares?

[Trapped]

I have a hard time denying the existence of God. All the unbelievable intricacies, interconnectedness, and interdependences of the natural world, space, our bodies, 3.1 billion letters coding the DNA in each of our cells, etc, etc, etc....... There is a creator. This didn't all just happen as a product of random chance. To me it's undeniable. There is a God.

What I have a hard time coming to, though, is a remotely solid conviction in the existence of a caring God, or a personal God. A God who made me for a reason. Who thinks I'm worthwhile. Who cares when I suffer. Who shows up when He is needed. Who is actually touched with the feeling of my weaknesses. Who will actually judge rightly at the end of things in a way that will be in my favor in the instances where it should be in my favor because I matter to Him at all.

How do you know God cares? For every response I can think of, I can also think of a corresponding opposite that would indicate God didn't care.

I know God cares because he healed that person's cancer. ---- The person in the next room over didn't get healed of cancer.

I know God cares because he gave you good parents. ---- The neighbor's parents beat him regularly.

I know God cares because he gave you a steady job and a place to live. ---- Other people have lived their whole life in starvation and malnutrition in rags and war.

I know God cares because the surgery was successful. ---- The other person died on the operating table.

Etc.

In the Bible God's care for people, when he was on earth, was for his literal care for them - healing their sickness, giving the blind sight, making the lame walk, setting free the oppressed, feeding the hungry, etc. There was direct care. But he doesn't do that anymore, and for the care you can point out today, I can point to many others who are NOT getting that care.

How do you know that God actually cares?

Trapped

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Trapped

In the Bible God's care for people, when he was on earth, was for his literal care for them - healing their sickness, giving the blind sight, making the lame walk, setting free the oppressed, feeding the hungry, etc.

How do you know that God actually cares?

Mat 7:7* Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:*
Mat 7:8* For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.*
Mat 7:9* Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?*
Mat 7:10* Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?*
Mat 7:11* If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?*

Maybe it worked that way 2000 years ago, when all kinds of mythological things happened all the time. But it doesn't work that way today. Maybe we just don't believe in mythology any more, and they only work if we believe in them.

The belief that we can get favors from god(s) by propitiating him/them likely goes back to our stone age days.

Anywho, I few years back I had growths removed in my bladder. I remember one night I had difficulty urinating before going to bed but was successful.

So I went to bed thanking God. Then I wondered if God appreciated my appreciating Him, and what "He" did for me.

I woke up unable to urinate. Catheter time again. I guess not.

Did God care about Job? Did replacing his children do the job? I lost a son. No replacement child could ever replace him. In fact, if I were Job I would have been insulted.

Why do I still love God? Because I have to love someone, or something, and just loving sky doesn't work.

Like I told God when I lost my son, while pumping my fist at Him : "Hurt me all you want, I'm not escaping or running away."

God is a habit to me. A bad habit or good one? I don't know.

Thanks for the new thread bro Trapped.

[Trapped]

awareness, Your catheter story made me laugh because that's how I think too. I had a similar situation when I was younger where I had to give up my dog because of other people's decisions and choices, not mine. I was devastated. As we were driving to give the dog away, the rain got so bad we began to turn around to abort and try again another day. Although I was struggling with the Lord at the time, I more than willingly thanked the Lord for giving me a few more days with my best buddy and thought the Lord cared because He could see how much I was suffering at the impending loss.

A little while later the rain abated and we turned back around and gave the dog away. While it was painful already, the "psych!!!!" moment in the middle made it all the worse, as if the Lord knew I was devastated and thought to add a twist in the middle just to let me down and make it that much more painful. Guess He didn't care after all.

I recognize that using outward circumstances is a fools errand in identifying God's care and would make God schizophrenic since our life is a constant stream of ups and downs. But it seems like people point to outward situations all the time as an indicator.

I can't imagine being God and giving the "all clear" for suffering to pour out on Job......and then turning around and trying to claim that I loved Job. Not sure if Job's first set of kids appreciated the "care" either.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Trapped

What I have a hard time coming to, though, is a remotely solid conviction in the existence of a caring God, or a personal God. A God who made me for a reason. Who thinks I'm worthwhile. Who cares when I suffer. Who shows up when He is needed. Who is actually touched with the feeling of my weaknesses. Who will actually judge rightly at the end of things in a way that will be in my favor in the instances where it should be in my favor because I matter to Him at all.

How do you know God cares? For every response I can think of, I can also think of a corresponding opposite that would indicate God didn't care.

The best way to know God's love and care is to believe His word, to believe what He has written to us. Unfortunately, Trapped, I think you are a victim of teachings. Endless teachings about God, about your life, about others' lives, about all that you should do, about all that you should not do, about, about, about . . . These have merely become laws, traditions, and ordinances to insulate you from God Himself. Only faith in His word can cut thru these layers of insulation.

I encourage you to prayerfully believe His word. Start with the Gospel of John or the book of Romans. Open your believing heart to God using His own words to speak to Him. Speak His word back to Him as a prayer. Listen to hear Him. Connect your heart with Him on the throne. Go past the teachings to the Person who authored them.

This may sound like mere spiritual talk, but this is real. This is the real life of every child of God. How do we know that He loves us? Because He said so. He loves us unconditionally. He loves us with an eternal love. Even when we were dead in sins, He loved us. He proved His love on the cross. Nothing in this entire universe is as sure as His word of love to us.

[Trapped]

When I was a young person I recall a serving couple telling me that they were praying for me. I was like, well.....thanks for that, but as far as impact on my life, it is as good as not praying or caring at all. You can be 5 miles down the road in your house praying your butt off for me, but if I'm miserable and depressed in my own house, the prayer doesn't "matter". That kind of "caring" doesn't matter. You have to reach out for it to mean anything to the person being cared about. There has to be a connection or a direct effect, otherwise it's as good as not caring.

Same here. God can say He cares, God can make sure His word says He cares, but where is that in our life? Otherwise it's as good as not caring. If the Bible didn't say God cares, I would have no other indication that He does. If those who believe the Bible weren't around me saying God cares, I would have no other indication that He does.

Creation shows me God is infinite and amazing and powerful, and I can grasp a certain level of care in that He made everything so perfect for our survival and a wide array of variety for our enjoyment and amazement, but that is for my physical existence. I don't see His care for my person, my soul.

Jesus' death shows God cares about our eternal situation. Okay.

The Gospels shows God cared about THOSE people's person and current situation. Okay.

What shows you that God cares about YOUR person and current situation?

Trapped

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The best way to know God's love and care is to believe His word, to believe what He has written to us. Unfortunately, Trapped, I think you are a victim of teachings. Endless teachings about God, about your life, about others' lives, about all that you should do, about all that you should not do, about, about, about . . . These have merely become laws, traditions, and ordinances to insulate you from God Himself. Only faith in His word can cut thru these layers of insulation.

I encourage you to prayerfully believe His word. Start with the Gospel of John or the book of Romans. Open your believing heart to God using His own words to speak to Him. Speak His word back to Him as a prayer. Listen to hear Him. Connect your heart with Him on the throne. Go past the teachings to the Person who authored them.

This may sound like mere spiritual talk, but this is real. This is the real life of every child of God. How do we know that He loves us? Because He said so. He loves us unconditionally. He loves us with an eternal love. Even when we were dead in sins, He loved us. He proved His love on the cross. Nothing in this entire universe is as sure as His word of love to us.

Ohio, thanks for your post.

Years ago an elder told me that what I needed was to read the Bible. I balked, saying that I had never gotten much from it. He responded that in that case, I should then consider it like medicine......it may not taste good but you need to take it in to heal your sickness. That was the first time anyone had said anything I could sink my teeth into - his reply contained a level of acknowledgement that the Bible isn't necessarily something easy to take in, rather than crushing me for having the gall to say that I didn't love the thing with every ounce of my being. I could wrap my head around something not being pleasant, but necessary, like medicine. And at the time I was struggling and couldn't deny that I needed some sort of "medicine".

So I resolved to read the Bible every day for a year. And I did. I didn't want to, but I did. I viewed it like medicine. I didn't want to crack open the pages, but I did. I had been told my whole life in the church to just tell the Lord exactly how you feel, even if it's "I don't want to open to You right now". I wasn't going to spend the year faking piety, so I was just honest every time - "I don't want to be here, but I come to You in Your word", or "Lord, nothing in me wants to read the Bible, but here I am. I am here, this is the best I can do. You have to meet me." Some days it was "I think what I'm reading is so dumb and not helpful at all. He who is weak eats vegetables? Was that really worth putting in there?" I couldn't pretend to be anywhere I wasn't, and the Lord sees right through that anyway.

I had heard for years people excitedly talking about how the words leapt off the page, or the words became spirit and life, or how they just couldn't stop reading and it was so amazing. I fully expected that to happen at some point in the entire year. Even though I could barely do what I was doing, I thought God would honor in some small, tiny way that I was trying, reading, seeking, coming to Him through His word, giving Him the opportunity. I had been told my whole life that God is just there, all around us all the time, just waiting, waiting for a crack, waiting for an opening, waiting for an opportunity, for us to open to Him so He could "stream in", "dispense Himself", etc...... Well, what is coming to His word every day for a year if not a crack, an opportunity, an opening?

The Lord never showed up. My outward situation didn't change, which I was hoping a little for but didn't expect, but my inward situation also didn't change, which is what everyone says happens and I desperately needed. After a year, I put the Bible away.

I often think that being a Christian is great for analytical people, but I've always hated analysis (i.e. in literature.....in English classes in high school my most dreaded essay topics were those that made a statement and then ended with the command "Analyze" - ARGH!!!) I hate analysis. Just say it plainly! I hate metaphors and similes, especially when talking about the literal meaning of your life. Just say it! Say what you want from us! Say what we need to do! Don't mix it in among a thousand verses so you have to connect a thousand lines and dots and wonder if this word used over here has relevance to the same word used in another context by another author - it's just a game that I don't understand why we have to play.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Trapped

Ohio, thanks for your post.

Years ago an elder told me that what I needed was to read the Bible. I balked, saying that I had never gotten much from it.

Watchman Nee likened this to washing rice. You wash rice, when you pull the sieve out of the water the water runs out. It seems you don't retain any water but the rice gets washed. I found that if I sat and read the Bible for 15 minutes I'd feel better even if I didn't think I had retained anything.

Originally Posted by Trapped

He responded that in that case, I should then consider it like medicine......it may not taste good but you need to take it in to heal your sickness. That was the first time anyone had said anything I could sink my teeth into - his reply contained a level of acknowledgement that the Bible isn't necessarily something easy to take in, rather than crushing me for having the gall to say that I didn't love the thing with every ounce of my being. I could wrap my head around something not being pleasant, but necessary, like medicine. And at the time I was struggling and couldn't deny that I needed some sort of "medicine".

Originally Posted by Trapped

So I resolved to read the Bible every day for a year. And I did. I didn't want to, but I did. I viewed it like medicine. I didn't want to crack open the pages, but I did. I had been told my whole life in the church to just tell the Lord exactly how you feel, even if it's "I don't want to open to You right now". I wasn't going to spend the year faking piety, so I was just honest every time - "I don't want to be here, but I come to You in Your word", or "Lord, nothing in me wants to read the Bible, but here I am. I am here, this is the best I can do. You have to meet me." Some days it was "I think what I'm reading is so dumb and not helpful at all. He who is weak eats vegetables? Was that really worth putting in there?" I couldn't pretend to be anywhere I wasn't, and the Lord sees right through that anyway.

This is very strange to me. Why do you have this attitude? I think Ohio must be right, it must be due to what people have taught you.

My attitude was completely different. I grew up in a church where they never talked about the Bible (IMO) and I always thought "I am not here to listen to your opinion about the Vietnam war, I want to know what the Bible says, why can't you just focus on that?"

I used to always go to the library and have the sense that somewhere in this building there is wisdom and knowledge hidden, if only I could find it. Then I discovered Colossians 2:3 -- "all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge are hidden in Him".

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Watchman Nee likened this to washing rice.... I found that if I sat and read the Bible for 15 minutes I'd feel better ...

This is very strange to me. Why do you have this attitude?

ZNP, I'd heard the rice washing thing many times too.....the washing of the water in the word. That's why I expected there to be an inward change after a freaking year of washing. Nothing. You also mention feeling better after you read......I would ask what you do when you read and don't "feel" better? Does it mean it was a waste? "Don't go by your feeling" is a common LC refrain.

I understand my attitude may be strange, that's why I put this in Alt Views. My attitude was the way it was because I had been forced to live my whole life as if reading the Bible and the ministry was worthwhile, when by my experience it wasn't. I never, ever picked up the Bible to read of my own initiation or on my own time because it's all I ever heard the rest of the time, and none of it was real. I figured giving the Lord a year chance might be the opportunity I had been told He was looking for. He didn't care to show up.

In thinking about your question, I think I was closed to the Lord as a younger person because I had always heard things like "He will take away anything you like". He would require that you give up or sacrifice anything you happened to delight in humanly. He was never passed off as a God who was "for me". He was just out to hurt me. This is backed up in my own life more than the thought that "God cares" is backed up.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Trapped

Ohio, thanks for your post.

I grew up in a huge Catholic family. I too was "Trapped." We lived next to the projects. Those on welfare today have more than we did. With all the dogs, cats, and my brother's albino rats, we had dozens of us in a 3 bedroom house. I was not a happy camper. I was overweight and not athletic. I had lots to complain about. And I did. I was always in trouble. All the things I liked to do were bad. Except for math and money, there was nothing good that I liked. My parents were constantly getting calls about me from neighbors, from school, and from the police. My mom did what she could, but she was maxed out. After one incident, she made me read the Bible. I tried hard, but I couldn't make sense of that old KJV and got stuck in Romans. I faked it and gave up. I got in more trouble. Being so miserable, I was stoned every day. I went to work and school everyday that way. Made no sense, but that was my life. Like I said, I too was "trapped." More like enslaved.

I met a guy at work, who took the same class as I. My car broke down, and he gave me a ride 25 miles out of his way. His new wife was divorcing him because he just met Jesus. He would talk and laugh about his life with the Lord. He gave me a paraphrased NT. After working 9 hr, then going to night school, I opened that book in bed. Jesus visited me. In the twinkling of an eye, I became a new person. I could talk for hours about the many changes in my life.

Trapped, only God really knows you, and knows what you have lived thru. I can only suggest what has helped me. I too had a million reasons about what didn't work. I can only testify of how He saved me from sin and misery. Doesn't mean my life has been easy since, but I have learned that He is trustworthy, and He promised us that if we seek Him, we will find Him. You can hold Him to His word.

For I know the plans I have for you, declares the LORD, plans to prosper you and not to harm you, to give you a future and a hope. Then you will call upon Me and come and pray to Me, and I will listen to you. You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart. (Jeremiah 29)

[Cal]

I know God cares because:

Logic: People, idealistically at least, value love and caring for others above all. It makes no sense that we would fundamentally and consistently feel that way but our Creator would not. If there is love and caring, surely God must exhibit the best examples of them.

The Bible: The Bible is the most amazing book in history. Nothing in it has ever been proven to be false. It was written over a period of 1500 years, by 35 very different writers, yet is amazingly consistent in its message. All seeming contradictions can be explained. Many of its prophecies have come to pass. There is no other book like it. It must be what it says it is: the written word of God to us. It tells us God cares.

Jesus: There was not other man like Jesus. He could not be a product of fiction because no one could have invented him or the things he said. He was clearly who he said he was, God with us. He told us God cares. Further, he died for us, and there can be no greater demonstration of his care than that.

Jesus and the Bible: The Bible testified of Jesus. Jesus confirmed the Bible. The fact that the most amazing book and the most amazing man would confirm each other cannot be coincidence, and redoubles the reasons to believe that both are true. Together they tell us God cares.

My experience shows me God cares: This doesn't mean God won't let me go through hardships, but that when I do he is always with me tenderly reassuring and encouraging me. If you trust him and abandon yourself to his care, you will experience it. I've experienced it again and again. I cannot deny it. Many things that have happened to me don't make sense, but I believe and have seen that these are all lessons to bring me closer to him and to a higher and deeper place than I could ever reach otherwise. When you get to the end of your rope, and all and everything else has abandoned or betrayed you, he will be there, right at the end of that rope with you, caring for you.

Sometimes I lose faith, but he remains faithful. But if you withdraw from him, it just makes it harder for him to help you. Trapped, Ohio is right. You need to simplify and get back to God himself--the real, present living God, who is Jesus, and who is in you as the Holy Spirit. Get to know this person.

Here's one of my favorite verses:

I complain and groan morning, noon, and night, and he hears my voice. Psalm 55:17

Do you see what that says? It says David complained to God all day, and God heard his voice. Take your complaints to him. Tell him exactly how you feel. Don't do it with a hard heart, be open. But don't hold any feelings back. He will hear you. That is a promise.

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Igzy

I know God cares because:

Logic: People, idealistically at least, value love and caring for others above all. It makes no sense that we would fundamentally and consistently feel that way but our Creator would not. If there is love and caring, surely God must exhibit the best examples of them.

The Bible: The Bible is the most amazing book in history. Nothing in it has ever been proven to be false. It was written over a period of 1500 years, by 35 very different writers, yet is amazingly consistent in its message. All seeming contradictions can be explained. Many of its prophecies have come to pass. There is no other book like it. It must be what it says it is: the written word of God to us. It tells us God cares.

Jesus: There was not other man like Jesus. He could not be a product of fiction because no one could have invented him or the things he said. He was clearly who he said he was, God with us. He told us God cares. Further, he died for us, and there can be no greater demonstration of his care than that.

Jesus and the Bible: The Bible testified of Jesus. Jesus confirmed the Bible. The fact that the most amazing book and the most amazing man would confirm each other cannot be coincidence, and redoubles the reasons to believe that both are true. Together they tell us God cares.

My experience shows me God cares: This doesn't mean God won't let me go through hardships, but that when I do he is always with me tenderly reassuring and encouraging me. If you trust him and abandon yourself to his care, you will experience it. I've experienced it again and again. I cannot deny it. Many things that have happened to me don't make sense, but I believe and have seen that these are all lessons to bring me closer to him and to a higher and deeper place than I could ever reach otherwise. When you get to the end of your rope, and all and everything else has abandoned or betrayed you, he will be there, right at the end of that rope with you, caring for you.

Sometimes I lose faith, but he remains faithful. But if you withdraw from him, it just makes it harder for him to help you. Trapped, Ohio is right. You need to simplify and get back to God himself--the real, present living God, who is Jesus, and who is in you as the Holy Spirit. Get to know this person.

Here's one of my favorite verses:

I complain and groan morning, noon, and night, and he hears my voice. Psalm 55:17

Do you see what that says? It says David complained to God all day, and God heard his voice. Take your complaints to him. Tell him exactly how you feel. Don't do it with a hard heart, be open. But don't hold any feelings back. He will hear you. That is a promise.

Igzy, I understand what you are saying about love and caring in humanity pointing to the existence of it in God. However, evil and spite and pure venom also exist in humanity - I just experienced more of it yesterday.

The existence of the Bible doesn't hold much weight for me as an argument. I've been surround by it, hearing "since diapers" as awareness said, and I'm still here asking the question about God's care.

Jesus is an interesting one - one apologist pointed to the "explosion" of Christianity as a historical fact after Jesus's death, and that if His death and resurrection weren't real, nothing else would have caused that explosion. I can't square Jesus and the present day, though. What does Jesus have to do with me in 2019?

I'm glad you have undeniable experience you can point to that He tenderly reassures and encourages you. I doubt I'd have started this thread if I could say I'd had a similar experience. This may sound shallow, but in my experience, even if I am broken and coming to God for healing and comfort, when He inevitably fails I often find more help in watching movies or older intellectual game shows. Mental distraction and the "take me to a different world" of movies has been much more of a balm to my mind than Jesus never showing up has ever been. I'm not even a movie watcher and frustrate most of my acquaintances when they talk about movies and I've never heard of most of them. I just turn to them when I'm against the wall and nothing else works, including the God who "cares".

You say "He will be there, caring for you." How do you know? What does this mean? What has this looked like in your life? This is the thing I am most interested in.

It doesn't really matter to me if I complain and God hears my voice. So what if He hears? You can hear and yet be indifferent.

This is just my honest response and I don't mean any of my questions in a challenging or belligerent way, rather inquisitively. I appreciate your post.

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Jesus visited me. In the twinkling of an eye, I became a new person. I could talk for hours about the many changes in my life.

Trapped, only God really knows you, and knows what you have lived thru. I can only suggest what has helped me. I too had a million reasons about what didn't work. I can only testify of how He saved me from sin and misery. Doesn't mean my life has been easy since, but I have learned that He is trustworthy, and He promised us that if we seek Him, we will find Him. You can hold Him to His word.

Ohio, thanks for your story and I certainly appreciate hearing your experience. I do feel like I've gotten a "glimpse" of a different God by reading some other Bible versions or hearing speaking from other Christian teachers, but then I come back to my actual life and what I heard or read is just a nice story not applicable to me. I've been waiting for the "twinkling of an eye" moment my whole life.

Because of my experience, I don't have the energy to "search with my whole heart" for God. He has to meet me halfway. I don't have the energy to seek for something I don't have the confidence or faith will honor the seeking or will ever be there or be worth the seeking.

I've essentially been expecting Him to rip everything away from me and reduce me to nothing and break me, and the past year He has done exactly that through a long string of events totally outside my control, no matter how much I tried to make things better. When He does that, usually what one would expect is for Him to appear, but again, He hasn't, even though I have literally been on my knees in tears and anguish. There has not been a moment, not even one, when I could remotely say that He is the God of any comfort, much less of all comfort.

I know it's hard to help someone's personal experience. I'm not expecting you to be able to say a magic phrase that will unlock it for me. It just helps to get it out though. Thanks.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Trapped

Years ago an elder told me that what I needed was to read the Bible. I balked, saying that I had never gotten much from it. He responded that in that case, I should then consider it like medicine......

Doctors prescribe medicine specific to a condition. If the medicine doesn't work they prescribe a different one.

Maybe you're taking the wrong medicine for your condition. Try Nietzsche. His words sometimes leap off the page, I find.

Or try The Gospel of Thomas. It's a short read :
http://gnosis.org/naghamm/gosthom.html

Anywho, I guess you're gonna have to self medicate.

Good luck ... and blessings ... I hope you get free.
Harold

[Cal]

Originally Posted by awareness

Doctors prescribe medicine specific to a condition. If the medicine doesn't work they prescribe a different one.

Maybe you're taking the wrong medicine for your condition. Try Nietzsche. His words sometimes leap off the page, I find.

Or try The Gospel of Thomas. It's a short read :
http://gnosis.org/naghamm/gosthom.html

Anywho, I guess you're gonna have to self medicate.

Good luck ... and blessings ... I hope you get free.
Harold

Harold is joking, Trapped.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Igzy

Harold is joking, Trapped.

Not about getting free ... and blessings. And finding the right medication. Trapped could be suffering from Religious Trauma Syndrome, and need counselling more than the word. :
https://www.babcp.com/review/RTS-Tra...-Religion.aspx