Witness Lee Training Centers

[recoveringCK]

Other posts suggest the 10 day twice a year trainings were formed to raise money to pay for debts WL incurred with the Daystar venture.

The full time training began in 1977. One of the first training centers was on the east coast Boston area.

Currently, the postgraduate FTT is strongly emphasized in the LC “recovery.” Trainees are treated as celebrities. Much energy is directed toward funneling young people into the training. Young people are told the most important point is to marry someone in the church. Prospective couples are encouraged to emphasize their commitment to the church prior to marriage.

At the same time, young people are taught it is bad to relate to members of the opposite sex before marriage. Conversation is not encouraged. If accepted, this could lead to inability to relate to the opposite sex. It may contribute to other social dysfunction. There are reports of people being “ruined for the church” as if that were a good thing. Others on this discussion board have mentioned social dysfunction out of the church.

Trainees who marry other trainees are more likely to remain in the church as a couple and insist their children do the same than a non-FTT graduate. Elders or BBs sometimes act as matchmakers. When these marriages go well, the couple will likely be strongly devoted to the church leadership. If the marriages do not go well, they go away and do not cause much trouble. Before LCD, there was not a way for ex-members to communicate what was happening.

What they are building is not the church as the bride of Christ but a cadre of devotees. Is teaching people to not relate to the opposite sex is a part of funneling young people into the FTT?

Error correction, comments and additional information is invited

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by recoveringCK

Other posts suggest the 10 day twice a year trainings were formed to raise money to pay for debts WL incurred with the Daystar venture.

The full time training began in 1977. One of the first training centers was on the east coast Boston area.

We must be talking about two types of trainings here.

The trainings formed to pay Daystar debts began ~1974 with the Gospel of John, then Romans, Hebrews, Revelations, etc. These are the trainings held summer and winter for all the saints.

The "FTT" Full-Time Trainings began much later in Taipei during the "New Way" movement, thus it was referred to as FTTT. These are mostly two year (4 semester) trainings for recent college graduates.


Is this your understanding too?

[recoveringCK]

I did not recall 1974 was the year the Anaheim training started. The first 10 day training, the Training in Life, was at the Anaheim Convention Center. Max delivered many messages at that training. Is that the training series started to help pay off Daystar debts?

There were tours of the Daystar motor home, but I don't recall the years Daystar was active or the year the 10 day trainings started or realize they were connected.

So the FTT began in Taiwan.

What happened to the attendees of the first FTT in the Boston area. Many of the trainees would have been first generation CKs. It has been said most of them disconnected from the LC after that. What happened there? What happened to them?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by recoveringCK

I did not recall 1974 was the year the Anaheim training started. The first 10 day training, the Training in Life, was at the Anaheim Convention Center. Max delivered many messages at that training. Is that the training series started to help pay off Daystar debts?

There were tours of the Daystar motor home, but I don't recall the years Daystar was active or the year the 10 day trainings started or realize they were connected.

So the FTT began in Taiwan.

What happened to the attendees of the first FTT in the Boston area. Many of the trainees would have been first generation CKs. It has been said most of them disconnected from the LC after that. What happened there? What happened to them?

Not sure when exactly LSM began charging money for their teachings. I believe this first official "Life Study" training was in 1975.

I have heard that this was Philip Lee's idea, and that Max rose to prominence at LSM by asking saints far and wide to consider their Daystar investment a "donation." Those who screamed bloody murder, however, were repaid.

I know little about Boston. Sal Benoit, their leader, left with Max. The year after all the young people moved to Boston, I heard there was like 50 weddings.

[Barnabas]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Not sure when exactly LSM began charging money for their teachings. I believe this first official "Life Study" training was in 1975.

I have heard that this was Philip Lee's idea, and that Max rose to prominence at LSM by asking saints far and wide to consider their Daystar investment a "donation." Those who screamed bloody murder, however, were repaid.

I know little about Boston. Sal Benoit, their leader, left with Max. The year after all the young people moved to Boston, I heard there was like 50 weddings.

I went to Boston in 1977 when a lot of young people went there for what they called “the flow”. I don’t remember any weddings taking place at that time. There may have been a few but I think I would have noticed if there were 50 within that year.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Barnabas

I went to Boston in 1977 when a lot of young people went there for what they called “the flow”. I don’t remember any weddings taking place at that time. There may have been a few but I think I would have noticed if there were 50 within that year.

I was told that ~1978, a year or so after the big move to Boston, there was a "brotherly love" movement among the young people in Boston, many of whom had relocated from other cities, that resulted in many, many marriages. It could have been 25 marriages, noting that it takes two for each.

I also migrated to Columbus in 1977 during the Max-pressured "Young Galilean" movement to the campuses, and indeed there were also many marriages there the following year.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by recoveringCK

Other posts suggest the 10 day twice a year trainings were formed to raise money to pay for debts WL incurred with the Daystar venture.

The full time training began in 1977. One of the first training centers was on the east coast Boston area.

Currently, the postgraduate FTT is strongly emphasized in the LC “recovery.” Trainees are treated as celebrities. Much energy is directed toward funneling young people into the training. Young people are told the most important point is to marry someone in the church. Prospective couples are encouraged to emphasize their commitment to the church prior to marriage.

At the same time, young people are taught it is bad to relate to members of the opposite sex before marriage. Conversation is not encouraged. If accepted, this could lead to inability to relate to the opposite sex. It may contribute to other social dysfunction. There are reports of people being “ruined for the church” as if that were a good thing. Others on this discussion board have mentioned social dysfunction out of the church.

Trainees who marry other trainees are more likely to remain in the church as a couple and insist their children do the same than a non-FTT graduate. Elders or BBs sometimes act as matchmakers. When these marriages go well, the couple will likely be strongly devoted to the church leadership. If the marriages do not go well, they go away and do not cause much trouble. Before LCD, there was not a way for ex-members to communicate what was happening.

What they are building is not the church as the bride of Christ but a cadre of devotees. Is teaching people to not relate to the opposite sex is a part of funneling young people into the FTT?

Error correction, comments and additional information is invited

I never paid for the training's. They were called conferences, of 2 meetings a day for a month. Lived with saints, that paid our support. Everybody was totally given to "Christ and the Church" back then.

I remember being told that they were charging $50 to attend. I was taken aback. I said to myself, I won't be paying. I paid 10% every week. That was enough, plus other needs, like a meeting hall (that sold at a profit, but my money had become God's money). Haha

That happened around 77 or 78. When I was in the middle of a turmoil over the MOTA ... that eventually got me excommunicated.

Jesus never charged. And look what he was delivering.

[recoveringCK]

Originally Posted by awareness

... that eventually got me excommunicated.

I heard in the WL LC that only happens to honorable men who are whistle-blowers and publicly speak the truth.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by recoveringCK

I heard in the WL LC that only happens to honorable men who are whistle-blowers and publicly speak the truth.

awareness was an honorable man who became a whistle-blower and publicly spoke the truth and got excommunicated by Mel Porter in Miami.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

awareness was an honorable man who became a whistle-blower and publicly spoke the truth and got excommunicated by Mel Porter in Miami.

Brother Ohio is a sharp cookie. I drew the line early ; before Ingalls, Mallon, Max, Philip, et al, and even "Trainings."

If the MOTA flow wouldn't have blown me out, Trainings sure would have.

Thank you Mel Porter, for bringing from Anaheim the NEW "Flow of Oneness" ; a oneness supported by a couple of scripture verses, and accomplished by following the apostle of God on the earth, the oracle of God, and even more, the authority of God on the earth, Witness Lee.

Thank you for saving me years of more than I could ever stand with.

Trainings? What a joke! Lee indoctrination centers.

[Barnabas]

Originally Posted by recoveringCK

I heard in the WL LC that only happens to honorable men who are whistle-blowers and publicly speak the truth.

Dear RecoveringCK, I am new to the forum and I am still meeting with the saints in a local church. I’m not here to be contentious, but to learn. I don’t understand what is a “whistle-blower” and I would like to know why you were excummunicated. I heard some of the saints in the church complain about how some were excommunicated in Midwest churches. This really bothered me and when I asked them details about it the answer was very vague. If you don’t mind sharing with me I would like to learn from it. I know a dear brother who was in Ft. Lauderdale. I wanted to ask him what happened but it seemed painful for him to speak about it so I let it go.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Barnabas

I heard some of the saints in the church complain about how some were excommunicated in Midwest churches. This really bothered me and when I asked them details about it the answer was very vague.

Not to interrupt your discussion with others, but I was actively serving in the Midwest LC's for 3 decades until the Blended brothers decide to quarantine certain notable leaders. What LSM did was reprehensible. They went into every city and divided the churches, wanting to know only if you were for Lee's Ministry or not. They then worked with certain discontents to file lawsuits to steal meeting halls, church assets, and their "name."

I decided it was time to leave. Each side claimed that I needed to "stand for the truth." There was no interest in love or oneness, rather fighting for the spoils of war. For me, it exposed the whole system for what it really was.

[recoveringCK]

Originally Posted by Ohio

They then worked with certain discontents to file lawsuits to steal meeting halls, church assets, and their "name."

I decided it was time to leave. Each side claimed that I needed to "stand for the truth." There was no interest in love or oneness, rather fighting for the spoils of war. For me, it exposed the whole system for what it really was.

Seeing the real situation is far better than believing falsehoods put forth by deceivers whose deeds contradict their words.

[recoveringCK]

Originally Posted by Barnabas

Dear RecoveringCK, I am new to the forum and I am still meeting with the saints in a local church. I’m not here to be contentious, but to learn. I don’t understand what is a “whistle-blower” and I would like to know why you were excummunicated. I heard some of the saints in the church complain about how some were excommunicated in Midwest churches. This really bothered me and when I asked them details about it the answer was very vague. If you don’t mind sharing with me I would like to learn from it. I know a dear brother who was in Ft. Lauderdale. I wanted to ask him what happened but it seemed painful for him to speak about it so I let it go.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whistleblower

On the http://localchurchdiscussions.com menu bar search the term whistleblower. There is a thread titled whistleblower. You can also do an advanced search for whistleblower, quarantine and excommunicate.

[recoveringCK]

Hopefully everyone is enjoying the discussions.

Let me again ask an earlier question.

Originally Posted by recoveringCK

Is teaching people to not relate to the opposite sex is a part of funneling young people into the FTT?

One "benefit" of the FTT is many of the trainees marry a fellow trainee after the training. If a young brother or sister graduated from college and had difficulty relating to the opposite sex, that could provide additional motivation for them to go to the FTT.

[UntoHim]

Originally Posted by recoveringCK

Other posts suggest the 10 day twice a year trainings were formed to raise money to pay for debts WL incurred with the Daystar venture.

Charging for the trainings was a stark line of demarcation for many. Up until that point, it is my understanding that all aspects of "the Ministry" were not monetized per se, but depended upon the freewill offerings of individual saints, and also corporate offerings made by various local churches. I believe "The Stream" magazine (monthly?) was sent free of charge to anyone who asked.

Of course since the Daystar debacle never really happened (and if it did everyone was paid back in full.) then to the rank-and-file members the whole thing is much ado about nothing. Of the rapidly diminishing older ones that even know anything about this ill-fated, illegal money making scam perpetrated by Lee & Sons Inc., most are probably convinced the whole thing was made up by those evil, ambitious destroyers of God's building (aka: any former LC member who dares speak of the facts regarding Daystar and the the numerous other criminal scams in which the members were defrauded of their hard-earned $)

The full time training began in 1977. One of the first training centers was on the east coast Boston area.

I don't believe the training you speak of here was a full, 2 year official training as it is known today. I believe the official Full-Time Trainings were actually initiated in Taiwan in or around 1986. I could be missing something here.

Before LCD, there was not a way for ex-members to communicate what was happening.

Actually, before this forum was started back in 2008, there was a sub-forum within a forum (The Public Square) operated by The Bereans Apologetics Research Ministry which is based in the Philippines. Unfortunately, this forum was overrun with many Internet trolls, imposters and other unsavory characters who had no intentions of entering into sane discussions regarding the teachings, practices and history of the Local Church of Witness Lee movement. Eventually, the whole Bereans forum imploded and self-destructed, never to come back online, at least not successfully. It was probably for the better since it gave me the gumption to start this forum. The rest, as the saying goes, is history.

What they are building is not the church as the bride of Christ but a cadre of devotees.

Excellent observation, I could not have said it better! Of course, in retrospect, the simple truth is this was Witness Lee's intention all along. Even going back to the early days in Taiwan, it became perfectly clear to anyone who was paying real attention that Lee had absolutely no intention of fulfilling his oft-made claim that "the ministry is for the churches". In practice, it was always about the churches building up, supporting, extolling and propagating Lee's personal ministry. Now this has been officially codified by the official leadership of the Local Church, The Blended Brothers, in the official proclamation of Publication Work in The Lord's Recovery © 2005 Living Stream Ministry
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[awareness]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Charging for the trainings was a stark line of demarcation for many.

Jesus' ministry didn't charge, and look what he was bringing. Jesus lived by faith ; faith in the Father.

LSM is not living by faith. They are a non-profit glued to the bottom-line now. They aren't the only Christians that's doing it. In fact, it seems to be widespread. It's the way of corporations.