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10-22-2018, 02:45 PM | #1 |
Member
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: New York City
Posts: 15
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Greetings from NYC!
Hello everyone,
I'm very glad I found this site because I've been trying to find more in-depth details about the Local Church like whether it's a cult and whether I should keep on going to it. Initially I thought it wouldn't be that bad, just having weird rituals but overall biblically sound. However, perusing through this site and other Christian sites that discussed the matter, I realized the truth behind the Local Church movement that has cautioned me towards being involved with it in the future (things like not caring for the poor, lack of true evangelism, biblical controversies concerning their interpretation of the Bible, scandals concerning the leadership, the fact that you can't question leadership which is just plain stupid (I mean people in the Bible questioned each other all the time and God didn't bat an eye), and the issue that Witness Lee is considered equal to Jesus Christ in the Local Church which I just threw up thinking about). I actually joined the Local Church initially 3 years ago from a college friend of mine who invited me to one of their college dinners and kept on going through their events, thinking again it wasn't that bad. However, I actually didn't grow up in the Local Church thankfully but from my church back home which is not even close to being affiliated with the Local Church thankfully. I see people have had difficulties adjusting to normal church life after leaving the Local Church and I, having done the opposite having entered the Local Church life from the inside, would love to assist those who don't know what it's like to live in the world outside the Local Church. If you need help in those matters, please do not hesitate to PM me; I can give you plethora of data concerning what it's like to live in a "normal" church, having done so for 9 years now (and having enjoyed every single minute of it ) As I mentioned before, I'm so thankful I found this site as it has informed me and I hope I can be of use here. (And sorry if this is quite the long paragraph; I tend to do that a lot ) Sincerely, Lumosityfan |
10-22-2018, 03:17 PM | #2 |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Greater Ohio
Posts: 13,693
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Re: Greetings from NYC!
Welcome Lumosityfan!
The Ohio area where I was and NYC were always concerned "lukewarm" by headquarters in Anaheim. That was a good thing for those leaving their program.
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Ohio's motto is: With God all things are possible!. Keeping all my posts short, quick, living, and to the point! |
10-22-2018, 03:28 PM | #3 |
Member
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: New York City
Posts: 15
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Re: Greetings from NYC!
That's good to hear and I def feel like the events in NYC concerning how they run stuff and their teachings are less extreme than some of the horror stories I've heard about on this website from Anaheim and elsewhere (which is great because, um, I would have probably been thrown out by now for protesting considering my nature :| ) Just curious what do you mean by "lukewarm?
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10-22-2018, 03:31 PM | #4 | |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Greater Ohio
Posts: 13,693
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Re: Greetings from NYC!
Quote:
That's why the leaders of the Midwest region was excommunicated.
__________________
Ohio's motto is: With God all things are possible!. Keeping all my posts short, quick, living, and to the point! |
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10-22-2018, 06:21 PM | #5 | |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 510
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Re: Greetings from NYC!
Quote:
What if Witness Lee isn't who he claimed to be? What if Lee's "recovery" isn't really a recovery at all? If you're with a group dedicated to Lee's works and his recovery - what are the implications of that for your life? What if you sold out for Jesus, His works, His gospel message instead? How would His Spirit work in and through you? What if you pursued loving those around you with the same fervor and energy used to preach and defend the teachings of Witness Lee?
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Trust in the LORD with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding. |
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10-22-2018, 07:31 PM | #6 | |
Member
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: New York City
Posts: 15
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Re: Greetings from NYC!
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10-23-2018, 07:01 AM | #7 |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Greater Ohio
Posts: 13,693
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Re: Greetings from NYC!
It would help to remain anonymous on the forum.
__________________
Ohio's motto is: With God all things are possible!. Keeping all my posts short, quick, living, and to the point! |
10-23-2018, 08:35 AM | #8 | |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 8,064
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Re: Greetings from NYC!
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And yes, for a number of years I lost them. The elder told them I was a serpent. But eventually they left too, or got the boot, and came back. Leaving the LC hurt a lot, and deeply. Right up there with the loss of my son. But the Lord wants what the Lord wants.
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Cults: My brain will always be there for you. Thinking. So you don't have to. There's a serpent in every paradise. |
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10-23-2018, 12:17 PM | #9 |
Member
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 439
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Re: Greetings from NYC!
Don't mention friendship, for starters. It is taboo. The word companions, loving each other is ok to say, but not friendship. Actually, some will use the word friendship to blend with ones they consider outside the ministry, but it's all smoke and mirrors, not actual friendship.
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10-24-2018, 12:00 AM | #10 | |
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Posts: n/a
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Re: Greetings from NYC!
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10-23-2018, 05:40 PM | #11 | |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 510
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Re: Greetings from NYC!
Quote:
I'll tell you my experience, but I don't claim it to be the "best way". All I can say is that over two years later I still have peace about it and have seen the Lord's hand at work in awesome ways. My wife and I just stopped showing up to meetings. Home meetings, Lord's Day Meetings, etc. I had regular fellowship with 3-4 Full-Timers (one and elder, others who were not) who had an understanding of my thought process to varying degrees. We NEVER had any conversations that would be considered disrespectful from either side. In fact, most saw it coming. One commented that they better introduce me to the high peak truths or else I would be out the door. They knew the system was deeply flawed, but had bought into the program and were working through the flaws - rather than admit the reality of their position. I've shared this in other posts, but we were treated great in the LSM church. I used to joke that we were treated like rockstars. Invited to multiple people's homes each week, approached by the "saints" after each meeting, invited to fellowship with the cool kids and the top elders. Then we stopped going. No one, to this day, has reached out to me see how I was doing, ask me about my wife, kid, etc. These are people I met with, ate with, travelled with (I bet you can guess where we went in December), prayed with, sang with... then poof. Nothing. My wife did get a text from the "sister" who introduced her to the LSM church. She questioned why we weren't going and that people were asking about us. She told her that I felt it was best for our family if we left the LSM church and that we'd love to stay in touch and could chat more about it if she liked. She never took her up on that offer. I've texted little "how are you doing bro's" here and there and get a polite one sentence response. But the fact is if you're not in the LSM church they don't have an interest in doing life together, no more workouts, lunches, dinner invites, you're cut off. Now to be fair, a few months after leaving the church the Lord moved my family to a city with no LSM church (sometimes He has to make things really obvious for me - haha!). But since we had no interactions they didn't know for a long time (maybe to this day) that we weren't, literally, still right around the corner. I found this site a couple months after leaving. It is a helpful place for many people.
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Trust in the LORD with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding. |
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10-23-2018, 06:24 PM | #12 | |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: in Spirit & in Truth
Posts: 1,376
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Re: Greetings from NYC!
Quote:
A few months ago, my brother moved in with me temporarily and began going to the bible study with me. He loves to bake desserts and has not only made desserts for the group but for individuals whose spirit he wanted to lift. His kind heartedness rubbed off on me. So I began making home made entrees, not only for the bible study group but for friends from the bible study who stopped coming because of a pow - wow. We are a rowdy bunch who sometimes disagree. The leaders have a sibling and they often butt heads. There are also a few really sick people in our group so I have been taking them home cooked meals on a weekly basis. A few are mourning the passing of loved ones. Some of us are getting together for game night too. We have a blast. I pray A LOT for my bible study friends. I also encourage them in the LORD, IN His Word, in the Spirit. We are such a motley crew!!! And we are not on the same page spiritually speaking. But we have a strong love for each other. Only reason I am sharing what I am doing is 'churchers' including LC/LSM care for people superficially. It pained me to read the only time LCrs check in on people is to enquire why they are not going to the meetings. Jesus was friends with Mary, Martha and Lazarus. I want to love people as Jesus does, care for them as He does. May God through His Holy Spirit help us to be the people Jesus created us to be.. Lights in this dark world..filled with HIS LOVE. Showers of Blessings to all
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Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. (Luke 21:36) |
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10-23-2018, 11:09 PM | #13 | |
Member
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: New York City
Posts: 15
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Re: Greetings from NYC!
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10-23-2018, 06:58 AM | #14 |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Greater Ohio
Posts: 13,693
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Re: Greetings from NYC!
Wow, that question says a lot.
__________________
Ohio's motto is: With God all things are possible!. Keeping all my posts short, quick, living, and to the point! |
10-23-2018, 09:13 PM | #15 |
Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,075
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Re: Greetings from NYC!
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10-23-2018, 09:23 PM | #16 |
Member
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 439
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Re: Greetings from NYC!
When LCers take Lees' interpretation of scripture as The Only Teaching, The One Publication, Doctrine.....even if it is wrong....that is the same as elevating Lee over Christ. I see it. Anybody else?
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10-23-2018, 09:43 PM | #17 | |
Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,075
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Re: Greetings from NYC!
Quote:
You are compounding the original error... who said “only teaching”? The “one publication” does not mean the only publication, and I have no idea what you mean by “doctrine”,, what about it? Doctrine what? It is a great blasphemy to elevate anyone equal or above the Lord Jesus ... it is a serious matter touching His headship. Even an accusation of it stated carelessly or in ignorance as in the OT is disturbing. Your apparent misunderstanding only compounds a serious error. That accusation better be attended with substantive documented evidence. Drake |
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10-23-2018, 10:33 PM | #18 | |
Member
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 439
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Re: Greetings from NYC!
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10-23-2018, 10:52 PM | #19 | |
Member
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: New York City
Posts: 15
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Re: Greetings from NYC!
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10-23-2018, 10:55 PM | #20 | |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Greater Ohio
Posts: 13,693
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Re: Greetings from NYC!
Quote:
Drake constantly pretends this was never so.
__________________
Ohio's motto is: With God all things are possible!. Keeping all my posts short, quick, living, and to the point! |
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10-23-2018, 11:04 PM | #21 | |
Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,075
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Re: Greetings from NYC!
Quote:
I suggest you think about the construct of your argument. You are inflating things to the status of “elevated above Jesus” without justifiable cause or reason. If a quarantine or excommunication is elevating above Jesus then Paul is guilty of it. That is not idolatry. What you claim as documentation is not evidence that Brother Lee was equal to the Lord. No one I know thinks that. That is not the problem, rather the problem here is that accusation is a misunderstanding as in the case of the base post. You are compounding that error with frivolous unsubstantiated connectors... like accusing someone handing out Dixie cups of spiking the punch, the fallacy of jumping to a conclusion, only this error has spiritual consequences. Consensus is also a false argument. So what if everyone in this forum agreed with you? it does not strengthen the validity of the argument one iota. Rather it could just as well indicate a serious problem of group think. That is why I asked the OP who told him/her. Maybe someone said it and that is what is we need to know. Instead of calling every issue an elevation above Jesus how bout we hear the facts first? Drake |
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10-23-2018, 10:52 PM | #22 | |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Greater Ohio
Posts: 13,693
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Re: Greetings from NYC!
Quote:
And you are just finding this out now?
__________________
Ohio's motto is: With God all things are possible!. Keeping all my posts short, quick, living, and to the point! |
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10-27-2018, 02:21 AM | #23 | ||
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Natal Transvaal
Posts: 5,631
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Re: Greetings from NYC!
Quote:
The second feature is the effect of untransformed lives, collectively writ large in their assemblies. LC members have become passive, afraid to say or do anything not explicitly pushed by Anaheim. So they sit there like dispirited lumps: repeating a line from a ministry-approved hymn, standing for the bread-breaking, listening to a ministry-oriented message, then going home. They were told 18, 25, 42 years ago, "All you have to do is eat the Lord". It was grace-on-steroids: just sit in the right chair and listen to the right message, and nirvana would surely follow, as day follows night. Now all these years later, they're still sitting in that chair, waiting. But the fervour has, shall we say, died down a bit. Expectations have been tempered. Now they're just holding on, hoping they'll "make it"... but with so few signs at present, where is the hope for a glorious future? What happened to, " from glory to glory"? Quote:
Then the years passed, and the magic feeling faded, and having been conditioned not to critically assess their situation, they sank down into ennui, and dull rote performance.
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"Freedom is free. It's slavery that's so horribly expensive" - Colonel Templeton, ret., of the 12th Scottish Highlanders, the 'Black Fusiliers' |
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10-28-2018, 10:42 PM | #24 |
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Posts: n/a
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Re: Greetings from NYC!
We are all fallen man and are not perfect. I have not come across a "perfect church" yet. We all need go deny ourself, take up the cross and follow only Jesus. I do not know the scripture as much as most of you, but i just pray that we can love one another.
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10-29-2018, 07:49 AM | #25 | |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Natal Transvaal
Posts: 5,631
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Re: Greetings from NYC!
Quote:
Then if anyone points out their flaws, some of which are quite glaring, they effectively shrug and say, "Hey, no one's perfect."
__________________
"Freedom is free. It's slavery that's so horribly expensive" - Colonel Templeton, ret., of the 12th Scottish Highlanders, the 'Black Fusiliers' |
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10-29-2018, 09:40 AM | #26 | |
Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,075
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Re: Greetings from NYC!
Quote:
Christianity deserves criticism even invites it by some of its unscriptural practices and teachings. However, the local churches are not constantly pointing out the failures of Christianity in every meeting. Besides there is no need to do that.. it’s enough to contrast the difference and then spend most time on the primary mission and purpose to build the Body of Christ that He May present His bride to Himself glorious. Drake |
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10-29-2018, 10:29 AM | #27 | ||
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Natal Transvaal
Posts: 5,631
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Re: Greetings from NYC!
Quote:
You're a little behind schedule. We've already had a thread on this topic: "106 things not many Christians know (But Witness Lee knows)". He built a career convincing people that he alone had the truth. http://localchurchdiscussions.com/vB...ead.php?t=4316 The following statements were culled from Life Study Messages: Quote:
__________________
"Freedom is free. It's slavery that's so horribly expensive" - Colonel Templeton, ret., of the 12th Scottish Highlanders, the 'Black Fusiliers' |
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10-29-2018, 11:39 AM | #28 | |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Greater Ohio
Posts: 13,693
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Re: Greetings from NYC!
Quote:
__________________
Ohio's motto is: With God all things are possible!. Keeping all my posts short, quick, living, and to the point! |
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