The Worst Mouthful Ever

[Kevin]

The measurement of our knowing the Lord Jesus is Loving Him as the person whom we have not seen and this is beyond Theology.

You have lost this experience since you rebelled against the church and definitely caused you to be excommunicated from the unique fellowship of the Body of Christ. You are certainly fallen to the most sorrowful situation of losing the ground of oneness, since you were cast out from our midst. Your situation proves that the Lord is sovereign as the Head of the church miniaturized by the local churches as His Body

You are laid bare before God and thereby diagnosed polluted, infectious, gangrene, at an early stage. Thank the Lord as the unique administrator in the Throne subjecting you under our feet as those sitting with Him in His throne

The Lord saw you in your real situation as He walks in the midst of the Churches. He saw you how polluted you became that it even reaches to your heart as He search it and found no repentance at all but rather worsen your own situation of putting yourself into a curse.

Of being against the teaching in which you were taught. Wait the result of all these that you are doing. Think of the authority of the Church of what it can do for you.

You are are the one the what you called leper, sick with itchy ear and has became blind by your continuously defiled in an exposed, contaminated sphere explored by you out of curiosity and thereby suffering the consequence of acting like boasting of the little knowledge gained and assumed it to be great.

Frankly speaking, outside the Lord's Recovery all they can boast of, are nothing!!! We in the Lord's Recovery have the great Treasure store. And all theologians in the world are envy of it that's why many of them embraced the teaching as they got convinced while doing critical studies intensively, and you were very far compare to what you've done, you are doing, and what you will do

References you are using were obsoletes as to what authorities can recommend. Like for certain, The Recovery Version Bible is now considered Bibles for America. Nothing can hinder what the Lord is doing in His recovery today!!!

His will is done here on earth as it is in the Heavens through His builded Church in His unique Recovery and everything apart from it is mess, a heap of collapsed

What a shame to you!!! The person you are renouncing is attached to you bear witness livingly.

Your forum (Local Church Discussion) was concluded by a brother happening in the Church carried by every ages for the Lord's Testimony. People like you consider it extreme to be treated like this after neglecting the things entrusted to them and later realized "It's all gone"

Those who are not taking heed like whom you followed suffered great loss as consequence of pride, blinded, naked and hiding because of sickness.

Your group (Reformed faith) is so pitiful that they picked you up because they have no idea what's going on and what's going to happen to you. You're going to get all the way to destruction.

He even went so far attacked on my Facebook posts:

My picture:

He commented: Those who have fallen into the glory of the Lord will not be able to bring good fruit to the Lord's return because of the time of your youth should not be so be proud and to expect a maturity and enough to know- and not subject to submission, but all of these are branches, and leaves, produce better results? Just say, those opposers who are quarantined and mark for flaming fire!

My shared post from Richard Baxter: Remember, ourselves are the greatest snare to ourselves.

He commented: At least you realized you're snared!!! By your self: ambition, pride, arrogance, and most of all presumptuousness.

"If we say we believe the doctrines of grace but do not show grace to others, we do not understand the doctrines of grace."

He commented: Until doctrines only?

"Regeneration is something that is accomplished by God. A dead man cannot raise Himself." - R. C. Sproul

He commented: Treasured gems mixed in the mud within the swamp that those who want to enjoy the value needs to get polluted, dirty and exhausted in the extent of fainting to resist the force of deceitful environment where particularly it is.

"I didn't invite Jesus into my heart; he gave me a new heart."

He commented: The title itself is too shallow and wrong!

[Ohio]

Getting past English as a 2nd language, this railing post by a former LC friend of Kevin shows what deep-seated pride and animus which exists in the LC Movement. There is no critique for specific words or actions by Kevin, rather categorical condemnations for his leaving the program, and seeking answers on this forum.

If the wordsmiths at LSM had polished up the rhetoric here, you will get the same flaming bombast which has filled their podiums and websites for decades related to former LC workers such as Max Rapoport, John Ingalls, Titus Chu, Nigel Tomes, etc. Their Laodicean attitudes prevent any critique whatsoever and prevent any workers or members from ever departing peacefully. With LSM, there is only forced silence in subjection to their wide-ranging demands, or a messy divorce. Continued fellowship and/or reconciliation are not available.

Since I left the LC program in 2005, I have met many Christians in many diverse churches. Ten years ago I watched a home meeting leader friend of mine down the street lead perhaps two dozen believers from their current church to another. Sure their was some sadness at the loss, but nothing like I have seen in the LC. Christians come and go within Christian churches without the hostility regularly seen from LSMers. It's part of life. It's how the Great Shepherd often must care for his sheep.

[leastofthese]

So much hostility in this response. Very sad.

Kevin, all you can do is pray for someone like this and strive to love them like Christ loves us. This brother (?) is obviously confused about what the gospel is and how we’re called to carry ourselves as sons of a Living God guided by His Spirit.

Peace to this dude.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by leastofthese

So much hostility in this response. Very sad.

The "dude" sounds like a Witness Lee tape recorder, that's all.

"You are what you eat," is that not what we heard repeatedly?

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Ohio

If the wordsmiths at LSM had polished up the rhetoric here, you will get the same flaming bombast which has filled their podiums and websites for decades related to former LC workers such as Max Rapoport, John Ingalls, Titus Chu, Nigel Tomes, etc. Their Laodicean attitudes prevent any critique whatsoever and prevent any workers or members from ever departing peacefully. With LSM, there is only forced silence in subjection to their wide-ranging demands, or a messy divorce. Continued fellowship and/or reconciliation are not available.

Ten years ago I watched a home meeting leader friend of mine down the street lead perhaps two dozen believers from their current church to another. Sure their was some sadness at the loss, but nothing like I have seen in the LC. Christians come and go within Christian churches without the hostility regularly seen from LSMers. It's part of life. It's how the Great Shepherd often must care for his sheep.

When one leaves the local churches, it's expected you leave like a gentleman. However the same behavior will not be afforded to you by those who remain.

Just as Ohio has experienced among non-Local Church fellowships, so have I. Families leave, but the door is left open for their return. Even when they do leave for another church, there's no shunning or cutting of fellowship. The fellowship between brothers/sisters continues. It's just partaking of communion is done at a different venue.

[TLFisher]

"We in the Lord's Recovery have the great Treasure store."

I have heard that statement and ones similar to it meaning: "We in the Local Churches have everything and those in Christianity have nothing". What pride.
Growing up in the local churches, I used to hearing such statements. What's sad is even now I can go to a LC meeting and hear at least one person utter that quote.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Terry

"We in the Lord's Recovery have the great Treasure store."

I have heard that statement and ones similar to it meaning: "We in the Local Churches have everything and those in Christianity have nothing". What pride.
Growing up in the local churches, I used to hearing such statements. What's sad is even now I can go to a LC meeting and hear at least one person utter that quote.

Terry, I agree.

Their "riches" are not the reality of the Spirit but a disguise, cloaked in endless doctrines, non-scriptural "principles," and the traditions of men.

If what they had was the real thing, it would not be accompanied by arrogant pride and the ministry of condemnation.

[awareness]

Kevin, this brother is evil.

[leastofthese]

Originally Posted by awareness

Kevin, this brother is evil.

Thanks for the post Awareness - I thought the same thing, but chose not to write it at the time. There is a certain vitriol here that can only come from a dark place.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by leastofthese

Thanks for the post Awareness - I thought the same thing, but chose not to write it at the time. There is a certain vitriol here that can only come from a dark place.

Yes. Thanks. I have found many times that, those that condemn are ofttimes those that act and speak in ways that will be condemned.

[byHismercy]

Kevin, this morning I got some ministry into my inbox that the Lord has been using to heal me, I felt to share with you...

John 10:4 and when He brings out His own sheep, he goes before them; and the sheep follow Him....

Jesus the good shepherd goes before us, leading us, while we know our shepherds' voice and follow. Not like the farmer with a gaggle of geese who drives his flock from behind. Legalistic people drive others.

What you are receiving from this Lee enthusiast is not the voice of your savior. When we start to sense the absence of our shepherds' voice, we stray, we wander off. Just keep your focus on Jesus' face and His Word and everything you need will follow....He leads his own to green pasture and living waters...your real Shepherd lays down His life for His flock, unlike the hireling. You simply looked for Him and didn't find Him there in the LC, no matter what they claim about the ''reality'' which you can only find ''in the Lee ministry''. Jesus bless you in your walk. He will bring you into the right assembly, the sweetness of fellowship of faith, and the love that you were created to receive from Him.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by Kevin

He even went so far attacked on my Facebook posts:

Kevin,

I join you in condemning these comments.

Such harsh, hostile, and uncivil comments should not proceed from the mouth, pen, or keyboard of any christian.

Drake

[ZNPaaneah]

11 Blessed are ye when men shall reproach you, and persecute you, and say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. 12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets that were before you.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Kevin

He even went so far attacked on my Facebook posts:

My picture:

He commented: Those who have fallen into the glory of the Lord will not be able to bring good fruit to the Lord's return because of the time of your youth should not be so be proud and to expect a maturity and enough to know- and not subject to submission, but all of these are branches, and leaves, produce better results? Just say, those opposers who are quarantined and mark for flaming fire!

My shared post from Richard Baxter: Remember, ourselves are the greatest snare to ourselves.

He commented: At least you realized you're snared!!! By your self: ambition, pride, arrogance, and most of all presumptuousness.

"If we say we believe the doctrines of grace but do not show grace to others, we do not understand the doctrines of grace."

He commented: Until doctrines only?

"Regeneration is something that is accomplished by God. A dead man cannot raise Himself." - R. C. Sproul

He commented: Treasured gems mixed in the mud within the swamp that those who want to enjoy the value needs to get polluted, dirty and exhausted in the extent of fainting to resist the force of deceitful environment where particularly it is.

"I didn't invite Jesus into my heart; he gave me a new heart."

He commented: The title itself is too shallow and wrong!

It has a harsh tone, like it was Google translated from Chinese. It could be cultural.

And remember, that Reformers Calvin , Luther and others, said much more violent and vulgar things, which was also due to their culture.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

It has a harsh tone, like it was Google translated from Chinese. It could be cultural.

And remember, that Reformers Calvin , Luther and others, said much more violent and vulgar things, which was also due to their culture.

It seems Evangelical would turn around the table whenever I said things about the LC in whatever persuasion where I am in whether it be reformed or evangelical camp. Gotcha mr. Evan

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Kevin

It seems Evangelical would turn around the table whenever I said things about the LC in whatever persuasion where I am in whether it be reformed or evangelical camp. Gotcha mr. Evan

I'm not sure in what sense I would "turn around the table". I am suggesting that it may have appeared much more harsh than intended or really was, coming from a non-English speaking background, and filtered over the medium of internet text.

Sometimes I think people's issue with words is more because of political correctness in their culture, than God or the Bible.

FYI when someone communicates with generalities such as "those in Christianity have nothing" it is obviously a generalization intended to make a point. I would interpret it in a relative sense than an absolute sense. And filtered through the way this person communicates it surely could have been misunderstood to mean something they did not intend to say.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

I'm not sure in what sense I would "turn around the table".

I was addressing to the Reformers.

I am suggesting that it may have appeared much more harsh than intended or really was, coming from a non-English speaking background, and filtered over the medium of internet text.

It was a full-blown denigrating on my part. How dare he said those words when we were just talking about doctrine and theology!

FYI when someone communicates with generalities such as "those in Christianity have nothing" it is obviously a generalization intended to make a point.

It was an absolute sense.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I was addressing to the Reformers. It was a full-blown denigrating on my part. How dare he said those words when we were just talking about doctrine and theology! It was an absolute sense.

It could be considered a rebuke, from his point of view. In terms of vulgarity, his words did not even contain any words that would require censoring. Far worse things are played on televisions all the time. This puts it in the realm of "manner of speech" and communication, giving and taking offense. vil.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Kevin

He even went so far attacked on my Facebook posts:

My picture:

He commented: Those who have fallen into the glory of the Lord will not be able to bring good fruit to the Lord's return because of the time of your youth should not be so be proud and to expect a maturity and enough to know- and not subject to submission, but all of these are branches, and leaves, produce better results? Just say, those opposers who are quarantined and mark for flaming fire!

My shared post from Richard Baxter: Remember, ourselves are the greatest snare to ourselves.

He commented: At least you realized you're snared!!! By your self: ambition, pride, arrogance, and most of all presumptuousness.

"If we say we believe the doctrines of grace but do not show grace to others, we do not understand the doctrines of grace."

He commented: Until doctrines only?

"Regeneration is something that is accomplished by God. A dead man cannot raise Himself." - R. C. Sproul

He commented: Treasured gems mixed in the mud within the swamp that those who want to enjoy the value needs to get polluted, dirty and exhausted in the extent of fainting to resist the force of deceitful environment where particularly it is.

"I didn't invite Jesus into my heart; he gave me a new heart."

He commented: The title itself is too shallow and wrong!

But that's not all. He's not satisfied taking backfire on me after I've disputed his whining responses through PM.

In a one public picture post by Higher Rock Conferences page which he saw I shared it on my wall. He didn't comment what I just shared on my timeline so that I might not see the notification on my Facebook of his vulgar tongue. Instead he went to its page's post. He read a bunch of comments who were inquiring about the on-going conference and the admin page replied them one by one: "We replied to your inquiry by PM. Thank you."

And he then commented such a foul language in his own mother tongue:

My translation: You posted publicly, but you answered the inquiries by PM? Such devilish brains of these people (that includes me, the pastors and including Dr. Steve Lawson) at Higher Pride Conferences! Subtle!!!

[Drake]

-1

Kevin,

Invite him or her to pick up the conversation here.

Drake

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Drake

-1

Kevin,

Invite him or her to pick up the conversation here.

Drake

He doesn't want to. He believes that this forum is prolonging the Lord's coming. It seems to me that man's will is omnipotent, and the will of the Sovereign Lord is impotent.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by Kevin

He doesn't want to. He believes that this forum is prolonging the Lord's coming. It seems to me that man's will omnipotent, and the will of the Sovereign Lord is impotent.

Right.

Tell him that a long time local church member believes the Lord is bigger than this forum but if he really believes this forum is prolonging the Lords return then he should come and make a case for dismantling it.

Drake

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Kevin

He doesn't want to. He believes that this forum is prolonging the Lord's coming. It seems to me that man's will is omnipotent, and the will of the Sovereign Lord is impotent.

People can be funny. The very idea that a little computer forum can change God's mind about the day and the hour is ludicrous.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Kevin

He commented: Those who have fallen into the glory of the Lord will not be able to bring good fruit to the Lord's return because of the time of your youth should not be so be proud and to expect a maturity and enough to know- and not subject to submission, but all of these are branches, and leaves, produce better results? Just say, those opposers who are quarantined and mark for flaming fire!

Pardon me. This is a poor translation of mine.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Pardon me. This is a poor translation of mine.

It was arduous to follow but we got the gist.

[Kevin]

Well he was quite a mouthful.

He's presuming on the "one church, one city" maxim is the only true expression of the universal church. Once you are outside of it as he said, you are the worst pitiful person. That's what he just condemned me. He doesn't even use a single scripture to combat as a counter-response. And if he does quote the OT to justify his accusations, he's mistakenly used the Scriptures in an allegorical interpretation.

There is no greater response to him because he's not really even engaging with me. He's just throwing stuff at me to make me feel bad.

I would just try to demonstrate that the universal church is comprised of many churches that don't have everything correct because everybody is human, there's only one inspired word of God and that's the Holy Bible, That the Bible is self-evident of itself is the only word that is true.

I wish i shouldn't have forced myself to engage - casting pearls before swine. I'd graciously try to get to a conversational level, invoking the Scripture that says we need to be gracious and loving one another. But it failed when he started ranting off. Maybe he got triggered when I told him that Witness Lee was not orthodox.

I've been trying also reaching out to my LC friends, but sad to know when I'm already labeled a dangerous rebel. Thanks to these elders! I realize that I'll be persecuted. I could even lose my life especially when granny gets home and she finds out about my situation. I lied to her many times by via Skype; just not to get into trouble.

All these crazy mindsets of pertaining to someone who has left the LCM makes me really sad.

[Drake]

-1

Kevin,

Anyone has the right to think whatever they want to about people who left or people who stayed. Nothing wrong with that over there or in here. Opinions will be expressed about exactly what that means. Nothing wrong with that either.

To my observation, the main issue is delivery. There or here, brother to brother, whatever your station in His calling, no christian should engage in harsh, hostile, and uncivil comments toward another... and you're not going to win an unbeliever if you lose it with them either.

Except grannies, they get a special pass... you just have to take it.

Drake

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Drake

Anyone has the right to think whatever they want to about people who left or people who stayed. Nothing wrong with that over there or in here. Opinions will be expressed about exactly what that means. Nothing wrong with that either.

Unfortunately his thinking is based on the Ministry of Condemnation (II Cor. 3.9) and not the New Covenant, the perfect law of liberty. (James 1.25)

Hey Drake, have you forgotten that even LC members are responsible for their words? Or does that verse only apply to everybody else? (Matt 12.36-37)

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Well he was quite a mouthful.

He's presuming on the "one church, one city" maxim is the only true expression of the universal church. Once you are outside of it as he said, you are the worst pitiful person. That's what he just condemned me. He doesn't even use a single scripture to combat as a counter-response. And if he does quote the OT to justify his accusations, he's mistakenly used the Scriptures in an allegorical interpretation.

There is no greater response to him because he's not really even engaging with me. He's just throwing stuff at me to make me feel bad.

You should not feel bad!

Mt. 5.11-12 "Blessed are you when they reproach you and persecute you, saying every evil thing against you, lying, for My sake, Rejoice and be happy, for your reward is great in the heavens, for thus they persecuted the prophets before you."

In this regard, that LC condemning person is the same as the Pharisees and Judaizers who persecuted the early disciples. The Apostle Paul called them "False Brothers." (Galatians 2.4)