Our Citizenship

byHismercy · 08-27-2018, 02:22 PM

Hi brothers and sisters in Christ,

Today in the word I see Phil. 3 v20....for our citizenship is in heaven; from where also we look for the savior, the Lord Jesus Christ.

I would like to juxtapose this true word against the Lee doctrine of locality being the borders of a city...the so called ground of locality. For me personally, the LC obligated me to this, their peculiar ground, although it is nowhere near the actual ground I live on! 30 or so miles distant, in fact. The next nearest meeting of the LC, to us, is in another country....

I feel strongly that their actual ''ground'' is in fact the Lee ministry itself, and they unrighteously hold all believers to that ground, as evidenced by their 'one publication' edict. This is just one way I see the LSM church to be misguided in their practices. Maybe this belongs in the 'one publication' thread....

My feeling is, my belief is that God is the one who is right, here, and in every case....my citizenship lies in heaven! How impossible for me to be on the wrong ground! Assuming that is how they justify the rent in fellowship....of course, it is never explicitely stated....as with everything LC, the truth is smothered in a veil of silence.

Any input, anybody?

Sons to Glory! · 08-27-2018, 02:52 PM

I believe that when any teaching, no matter how good, supplants the foundation of our oneness in Christ alone, then it becomes another fleshly division. If one-church-one-city wasn't held to be a core article of the faith, then maybe it wouldn't have become such a big reason for division. (Personally, I think there's certainly precedent for that in the title given to ekklesias in the NT . . .) And I think your observation is accurate - it has been shown innumerable times that oneness with LSM seems to be the main prerequisite for being in fellowship with the LC.

Now, as my fine-print legal disclaimer, let me say that division is just part of the package in Adam, and therefore we all have that propensity. If our focus is ANYTHING except Christ alone (i.e., lofty teachings - even about oneness), then we are just one big division and are in Adam. It's a litmus test of where we are, flesh or spirit. Are we experiencing oneness and fellowship with all other believers? Then we're experiencing fruit of the One Spirit and the new man. If we're experiencing division . . . then we're not experiencing Christ in that respect.

We are one loaf in Him - not in a teaching, a hierarchy, a publication, a ground, a whatever. Once we latch onto anything other than Him, we separate ourselves and pride unknowingly comes in.

There - I'm off my soapbox for today!

byHismercy · 08-27-2018, 03:46 PM

Yes, sonstoglory! Eph 5 v30 for we are members of His body, of His flesh, and of His bones. Remaining in the truth of the word is crucial. By grace we will not form an alligance with anything other than the living Almighty God and His living word. How wonderful to be alert to such a danger. And on guard against idols...

awareness · 08-27-2018, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

If our focus is ANYTHING except Christ alone (i.e., lofty teachings - even about oneness), then we are just one big division and are in Adam. It's a litmus test of where we are, flesh or spirit.

The fact that we need a 'bigman' leader is a need of Adam, and need of the flesh.

To me Lee is exploiting the human need for a bigman. The same need all the cults are exploiting.

But the only bigman we need is Spirit, not flesh ... not ministry, and certainly not geography.

Joh 4:21* Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.*
Joh 4:23* But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.*
Joh 4:24* God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.*

Sons to Glory! · 08-27-2018, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by awareness

The fact that we need a 'bigman' leader is a need of Adam, and need of the flesh.

To me Lee is exploiting the human need for a bigman. The same need all the cults are exploiting.

But the only bigman we need is Spirit, not flesh ... not ministry, and certainly not geography.

Joh 4:21* Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.*
Joh 4:23* But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.*
Joh 4:24* God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.*

The "bigman" concept is an interesting thought you bring up. After Bill Freeman left Scottsdale, one brother came to the forefront, who had a real gift for sharing the word (I really enjoyed his sharing). He shared probably 3 out of 4 Sundays. But after a few years he got kinda burnt-out and moved away. Several brothers then rose to fill the function of the Sunday sharing. This has been the biggest blessing! And I remember sharing brothers who I initially didn't think did that well, but eventually I came to absolutely love and be greatly fed by their sharing!

In reading about the primitive, pilgrim church, they didn't seem to have any big leaders in the forefront. Gatherings that did have a bigman seemed to frequently get into trouble of one sort or another.

When they just had a bunch of "small potatoes," they seemed to do fine. So I'd rather gather with all the one and two talented ones, laboring together and flying under the radar . . .

byHismercy · 08-27-2018, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

The "bigman" concept is an interesting thought you bring up. After Bill Freeman left Scottsdale, one brother came to the forefront, who had a real gift for sharing the word (I really enjoyed his sharing). He shared probably 3 out of 4 Sundays. But after a few years he got kinda burnt-out and moved away. Several brothers then rose to fill the function of the Sunday sharing. This has been the biggest blessing! And I remember sharing brothers who I initially didn't think did that well, but eventually I came to absolutely love and be greatly fed by their sharing!

In reading about the primitive, pilgrim church, they didn't seem to have any big leaders in the forefront. Gatherings that did have a bigman seemed to frequently get into trouble of one sort or another.

When they just had a bunch of "small potatoes," they seemed to do fine. So I'd rather gather with all the one and two talented ones, laboring together and flying under the radar . . .

I bet the meetings are wonderful, stg. Can't find the scripture I read this morning about esteeming each other as better....? And our portion of Grace is personally given to us by the Lord....every believer has their portion....how precious every member of Christ!

JJ · 08-27-2018, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by byHismercy

I bet the meetings are wonderful, stg. Can't find the scripture I read this morning about esteeming each other as better....?

Romans 12:3

Sons to Glory! · 08-28-2018, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by byHismercy

I bet the meetings are wonderful, stg. Can't find the scripture I read this morning about esteeming each other as better....? And our portion of Grace is personally given to us by the Lord....every believer has their portion....how precious every member of Christ!

Yes, the gatherings are sweet and nourishing. A kind of family atmosphere (in fact, much better than my earthly family!) Lots of sharing of the experience of Christ between saints. And the singing is through the roof!

byHismercy · 08-27-2018, 06:24 PM

Ok, here is more from the Lord re: our citizenship in reality....

Eph 2 v19 now therefore you are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow-citizens with the saints, and of the household of God.

The household of God is our locality, our real homeland.

08-27-2018, 02:22 PM	#1
byHismercy Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Pacific Northwest Posts: 439	Our Citizenship Hi brothers and sisters in Christ, Today in the word I see Phil. 3 v20....for our citizenship is in heaven; from where also we look for the savior, the Lord Jesus Christ. I would like to juxtapose this true word against the Lee doctrine of locality being the borders of a city...the so called ground of locality. For me personally, the LC obligated me to this, their peculiar ground, although it is nowhere near the actual ground I live on! 30 or so miles distant, in fact. The next nearest meeting of the LC, to us, is in another country.... I feel strongly that their actual ''ground'' is in fact the Lee ministry itself, and they unrighteously hold all believers to that ground, as evidenced by their 'one publication' edict. This is just one way I see the LSM church to be misguided in their practices. Maybe this belongs in the 'one publication' thread.... My feeling is, my belief is that God is the one who is right, here, and in every case....my citizenship lies in heaven! How impossible for me to be on the wrong ground! Assuming that is how they justify the rent in fellowship....of course, it is never explicitely stated....as with everything LC, the truth is smothered in a veil of silence. Any input, anybody?

08-27-2018, 02:52 PM	#2
Sons to Glory! Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Scottsdale, AZ Posts: 2,617	Re: Our Citizenship I believe that when any teaching, no matter how good, supplants the foundation of our oneness in Christ alone, then it becomes another fleshly division. If one-church-one-city wasn't held to be a core article of the faith, then maybe it wouldn't have become such a big reason for division. (Personally, I think there's certainly precedent for that in the title given to ekklesias in the NT . . .) And I think your observation is accurate - it has been shown innumerable times that oneness with LSM seems to be the main prerequisite for being in fellowship with the LC. Now, as my fine-print legal disclaimer, let me say that division is just part of the package in Adam, and therefore we all have that propensity. If our focus is ANYTHING except Christ alone (i.e., lofty teachings - even about oneness), then we are just one big division and are in Adam. It's a litmus test of where we are, flesh or spirit. Are we experiencing oneness and fellowship with all other believers? Then we're experiencing fruit of the One Spirit and the new man. If we're experiencing division . . . then we're not experiencing Christ in that respect. We are one loaf in Him - not in a teaching, a hierarchy, a publication, a ground, a whatever. Once we latch onto anything other than Him, we separate ourselves and pride unknowingly comes in. There - I'm off my soapbox for today! __________________ LC Berkeley 70s; LC Columbus OH 80s; An Ekklesia in Scottsdale 98-now Praise the Lord - HE'S GOT THIS!

08-27-2018, 03:46 PM	#3
byHismercy Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Pacific Northwest Posts: 439	Re: Our Citizenship Yes, sonstoglory! Eph 5 v30 for we are members of His body, of His flesh, and of His bones. Remaining in the truth of the word is crucial. By grace we will not form an alligance with anything other than the living Almighty God and His living word. How wonderful to be alert to such a danger. And on guard against idols...

08-27-2018, 06:24 PM	#9
byHismercy Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Pacific Northwest Posts: 439	Re: Our Citizenship Ok, here is more from the Lord re: our citizenship in reality.... Eph 2 v19 now therefore you are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow-citizens with the saints, and of the household of God. The household of God is our locality, our real homeland.