Depression and the LCs

[Trapped]

One time I found myself with a group of adult church kids, both brothers and sisters, all of whom were disillusioned and bitter about their years growing up the local churches. During the time one of the sisters expressed that she was struggling with depression and feelings of low self-worth, and that one reason (of many) she stopped going to the meetings was that hearing things like “You are nothing and Christ is everything, all we are is worthless and sinful, you deserved the cross and God can only even stand to look at you because you are covered in Christ and thus when He looks at you He sees Christ, otherwise He would be repulsed by you and cannot exist where you are” made her feel even worse about herself than she already did.

I could sympathize with her feeling because I had heard that thought myself plenty of times growing up in the LC, but was also frustrated that I really had nothing of substance to offer her besides just lending an ear. I really didn’t know how to respond.

A few days after that I relayed the story to an elder and his response was, “I agree, someone in her state of mind should not go to the meetings.”

While that was not the response I expected, it also didn’t quite land right with me but I couldn’t figure out why. I told the story and elder’s response to another saint and they agreed with the elder, likening the speaking in the meetings to rich food, and that when someone is sick they cannot handle rich food.

Does anyone have any input/advice/response to this? While I understand the concept of a sick person not handling rich food, I realized what hit me wrong was that we are all “sick people”. The Lord came exactly for the sick, depressed, downtrodden, crushed, lowly. These ones needing help shouldn’t come to the church? Only mentally and emotionally fully healthy people are suited to hear what is spoken? I had the thought that maybe what is being spoken in the meetings, or the way it is being conveyed, could be the problem. On the other hand, maybe there is some truth to it and if we are not in the right condition to hear certain things, it is better we don’t hear them? I don’t know. I just hated not being able to have any answer for her and would appreciate any thoughts anyone has.

I also realize that it would be possible for someone in a non-LC church also struggling with depression to pick up this same thought and be turned off by it, so I'm not 100% sure it's an LC-specific thing, although others can probably speak more to that than I can.

[Nell]

Trapped,

Many years ago, my father had died in the previous few weeks, and "the elder" summoned me to Sunday lunch to inquire as to why I had not been to meetings in "awhile". My response, in the following hour, was explaining in tears and a whisper which I could hardly speak. I had lost my father and was starting to realize that I would never see him again in this life. My heart was breaking and attending church meetings like a good little girl were the farthest thing from my mind. When I finished my truly pitiful discourse to him, he said nothing. I asked "do you have anything to say to me?" He said "no not really."

What could a concerned Christian say? "Can we pray for you now?" "My wife and I love you and will pray for you." "Is there anything you need?" "How can we help you through this time?" What's wrong with this picture?

This elder exposed his own spiritual bankruptcy. When you turn to "the church" and receive nothing...no spiritual guidance...not even a prayer or expression of love for you, is this really "the church"? These men are supposed to shepherd the flock. Instead, they have nothing. Rich food? If it was rich food spoken by the Holy Spirit, it would bring healing and nourishment. Even comfort.

After this experience, I may have attended one more meeting, but essentially, I never went back.

My advice to you and your friends is to walk away. Express your love and concern for each other. Seek counseling from a professional. I turned to my family for comfort and we all went through losing our father together.

John 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. 35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

Are these men His disciples if they can't even express their love to the brothers who are hurting? Notice, this is not a suggestion or a good idea. It's a COMMANDMENT!

Again, find a good Christian counselor and hold on to one another. Thank Him that you see something these "elders" don't! Maybe the Lord is showing you something!

Nell

[A little brother]

Originally Posted by Trapped

I told the story and elder’s response to another saint and they agreed with the elder, likening the speaking in the meetings to rich food, and that when someone is sick they cannot handle rich food.

May be it is the other way round. It could be the lack of certain nutrition in the food that leads to sickness.

I think the nutrition is love which is so seldomly mentioned in the LSM messages. The "church life" promoted is "God's economy" oriented instead of love oriented. "Christ as our person" neglects all the good in our transformed person as if God loves only Himself.

Rom 5:8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

If God already loves us while we were still sinners, would He loves us any less as His children?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Trapped

I told the story and elder’s response to another saint and they agreed with the elder, likening the speaking in the meetings to rich food, and that when someone is sick they cannot handle rich food.

Does anyone have any input/advice/response to this? While I understand the concept of a sick person not handling rich food, I realized what hit me wrong was that we are all “sick people”.

There will always be folks in the church who are more needy, as Paul says "less comely," and will continually need others to support them, encourage and love them, provide a shoulder, and a hand to hold. God has placed these ones in the body as it pleases Him, in order for His children to be cared for. Love, kindness, and joy are the best medicine.

Back in the mid-80's the LCM became inundated with a legalistic, military spirit (Gideon's army) which was extremely intolerant. Many of those whom I would consider real shepherds and brotherly/sisterly were discarded for the more zealous, military types which rose in prominence both at LSM and in the LC's. Philip Lee, placed in charge of the LC western hemisphere, placed no value on love, rather "what have you done for me lately, and what can you do for me right now."

Today in the LCM there is almost no value placed on Christian counseling, providing for ones gifted in this way to grow and prosper in the church. Anything remotely like this is considered "chicken soup for the soul," or that evil "self-help" which suffers condemnation with the rest of Christianity. Why? Simple. It points to the utter failure of this ministry to provide real food and guidance for spiritual edification. Hence, they would rather lose people by the droves than to have any one of them find help from Joyce Meyer, James Dobson, or thousands others. What they now call "rich food" is just dead esoteric doctrines, frozen and rewarmed, again and again, stored in clammy cold storage, void of anointing, and repackaged as fresh, organic, healthy foodstuffs. Nobody wants this stuff. Not even their own people.

[Evangelical]

Depression is a sign of not abiding in the Lord. Often because of sin as David experienced his downcast soul in the Psalms. The cure is to abide in the Lord. The Lord is always joyful and is a funny guy too.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Depression is a sign of not abiding in the Lord. Often because of sin as David experienced his downcast soul in the Psalms. The cure is to abide in the Lord. The Lord is always joyful and is a funny guy too.

Then why was Paul so depressed, weighed down by so many cares, despaired even of life, and Watchman Nee so depressed?

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Then why was Paul so depressed, weighed down by so many cares, despaired even of life, and Watchman Nee so depressed?

Yeah Paul, he was so depressed he wanted to die to be with the Lord, he was a suicidal. It's amazing how you read something into the Bible when you want to prove a point. So his solution? 1 Thess 5:16 Always be joyful.

Paul went through so much he should have been depressed, but he was joyful in the Lord. Depression in a first world country is a modern disease of affluence. I haven't met anyone yet with depression who didn't have food, clothes and a roof over their head. And I seen people in 3rd world countries with more joy. In that case I would tell them to snap out of it, stop feeling sorry for themselves and do something meaningful, stop feeding the depression demon. If you go to a pscyhologist they might treat you with CBT (a therapist helps you identify negative or false thoughts and replace those thoughts with healthier, more realistic ones) which is basically biblical teaching marketed in a secular way.

For me whatever I needed I just call on the Lord a few times myself or with the brothers and my problems go away and God answers. It works for me and others you tell me why it doesn't work for everyone?

[Evangelical]

So I've basically been attacked by the forum moderator for sharing what is possibly some of the best advice and help about depression ever. By that I mean it's straight from the bible and experience. It can also be found in the teachings of Christianity and in psychology.

What I wrote is basically what John Piper says in "sorrowful yet always-rejoicing":

https://www.desiringgod.org/messages...ways-rejoicing

“What the world needs from the church is our indomitable joy in Jesus in the midst of suffering and sorrow”

Only Christians know how to have joy in the midst of suffering - by abiding in the Lord.

Firstly, sorrow and depression, two completely different things.

I think depression is not real. It's not a real illness. It's a culture syndrome. This is a quote by a psychologist:

"In western anglophone societies we have developed an ethic of happiness, in which aberrations … are assumed to indicate illness,"

Here are supporting articles:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3635547/

https://www.theguardian.com/science/...lly-determined

It's real because we think it's real and other's in our culture tell us it's real.
In third world countries, everyone is suffering, yet happy, why? Because they aren't going around complaining how depressed they are.

It's in the mind, literally. Our minds can be changed. Get in the Word, pray-read, call on the Lord, our mind can change, and we can be joyful.

Get our mind off ourself. Count our blessings. Do we have food, clothing, shelter, are we content?

Don't fight it. You fight it, it wins, because it's not real. It's like fighting an imaginary opponent, you never win because your imagined opponent is always stronger. Depression is not a fight or struggle. Depression is because we aren't abiding in the Lord. Depression is not something we should fight or struggle with, we overcome it by abiding in the Lord.

There is only two conditions of a Christian - in the Lord and not in the Lord. There is no such thing as a Christian abiding in the Lord who is also in depression.

Don't struggle to fight an imaginary opponent who always wins. Struggle to abide in the Lord, and that imaginary opponent will disappear.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Yeah Paul, he was so depressed he wanted to die to be with the Lord, he was a suicidal. It's amazing how you read something into the Bible when you want to prove a point. So his solution? 1 Thess 5:16 Always be joyful.

I read this E, how else shall I read it?

"For we do not want you to be ignorant brothers, as to our affliction having happened in Asia, that we were weighed against excessively, beyond our power, so as for us to despair even to live." II Cor 1.8

Sorry E, but you seem to have a shallow, "book-knowledge-only" understanding of the Christian life. Reading only "the ministry" will do that to you.

[UntoHim]

Mr E, do you know what's another sign of not abiding in the Lord? It is not having love, understanding and compassion for your neighbor. If you would put down "The Ministry" long enough to read the story of the Good Samaritan, you would see that much of what you post on this forum is diametrically opposed to the message of the Gospel, which is the absolute expression of the life, heart and character of the Lord Jesus...you know...that guy that you claim to be abiding in.

The Gospel is the very core, the very foundation of our Christian life. Anyone who tells you that there is a "higher gospel" is greatly deceived, and whoever teaches such a thing is a deceiver. I'm quite certain that the priest and the Levite who ignored that man laying in the street, and "past by on the other side", thought that they were abiding in the Lord and living out their "higher gospel".

I would ask you...no, I would beg you, to consider what Nell and the others have posted right here. Ask the Lord why it is you don't have a heart for the wounded ones? Why to you turn a blind eye and cold shoulder towards your brothers and sisters who have been stripped, beaten and left for half dead? Maybe you think "they deserve it" for abandoning "the Ministry", or not speaking the praises of Witness Lee.

Just sayin...
-

[Truthseeker]

Yeah, we are nothing and Christ is everything and He can fill us with peace, love and joy. And our life is meaningful if we can be truly filled with His divine life and nature. We will feel worthy and full of confidence like Paul who said "I can encounter everything through Him who fortified me. (Philippians 4:13)"

But in the Local churches under LSM direction, we are nothing and Witness Lee and Blended Brothers' glory, pride and success are everything. That's why we can feel very weird spirits among them and it can't help us grow up properly and biblically.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

I would ask you...no, I would beg you, to consider what Nell and the others have posted right here. Ask the Lord why it is you don't have a heart for the wounded ones? Why to you turn a blind eye and cold shoulder towards your brothers and sisters who have been stripped, beaten and left for half dead?

Note that there is nothing in my post to suggest or insinuate that "I don't have a heart for wounded ones", as I did not disagree with anything already written. I offered the biblical solution which is 1 Thess 5:16 Always be joyful, and I was the first poster to do so (which is remarkable, as no other poster so far has offered a solution to the problem of depression, this is an area in which local church Christians are best equipped to deal with as they know the value of abiding in the Lord, constantly, 24/7). The cycle of depression is best broken by joy, and care and concern over the "problem" usually just makes it worse, like rubbing salt into a wound.

You could have just agreed with me, and quoted 1 Thess 5:16 Always be joyful, which my post was basically a paraphrase of. But you didn't, either because you can't, or you think it is better to use what I said to attack me and the ministry. You had to turn what I said into something about me , claiming "I don't have a heart for wounded ones". When you accuse or insinuate that others are Pharisees without a heart, you are being just like them. But that is a relative argument, "you are this and I am not but if you say I am not then you in fact are!". I prefer absolutes, and the absolute solution to depression in the bible is to be joyful.

[byHismercy]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Note that there is nothing in my post to suggest or insinuate that "I don't have a heart for wounded ones", as I did not disagree with anything already written. I offered the biblical solution which is 1 Thess 5:16 Always be joyful, and I was the first poster to do so (which is remarkable, as no other poster so far has offered a solution to the problem of depression, this is an area in which local church Christians are best equipped to deal with as they know the value of abiding in the Lord, constantly, 24/7).

I have to disagree here. God spoke many things into me through His word as I searched for answers to what happened to my family, at the hands of the local church Christians. He told me He would never reject me, that He desired love and not sacrifice, that His body is one, that I would never be separated from His love, that He loved me unto His own death, that He (the builder)is greater than the building(the church), and so many more.......when I hold up the picture His word gives me and compare it side by side to the local church Christians practices, I can see no resemblance. I was told by a local churcher that she was obeying the Spirit to shun us. But then the Lord told me He would never reject me. So that is how I know it is not the Holy Spirit leading them in their meanness, but a counterfeit spirit. So many words the Lord has spoken that contradict their LC practices. He loves us and has a ministry of peace and reconciliation. He wants us to walk in that same peace with each other. But that sort of living is impossible with local churchers who refuse to speak with, or fellowship with their "shunee". Jesus chose to eat with the lowest....tax collector, prostitutes, you know, He loves Trump and would sit down with him, and share the Fathers love with him. Jesus put loving others above all commandments except to love God first, with everything you have, and best. But just because you sign the email or text all caps "LOVE YOU" while you let them know you will not receive them, nor answer the phone to them, nor speak to them in person, nor have anything further to do with them.....does not mean you are operating in love, LCers. It is another spirit!!! A lying, false spirit of Satan! I am so thankful the Lord shined on the deception, led us out, and His name will be glorified above the name of Witness Lee, The Ministry, LSM, the Local Church, all of it. You will see someday. The day is appointed, in fact. Praise Jesus alone.

[byHismercy]

Originally Posted by Trapped

One time I found myself with a group of adult church kids, both brothers and sisters, all of whom were disillusioned and bitter about their years growing up the local churches. During the time one of the sisters expressed that she was struggling with depression and feelings of low self-worth, and that one reason (of many) she stopped going to the meetings was that hearing things like “You are nothing and Christ is everything, all we are is worthless and sinful, you deserved the cross and God can only even stand to look at you because you are covered in Christ and thus when He looks at you He sees Christ, otherwise He would be repulsed by you and cannot exist where you are” made her feel even worse about herself than she already did...

Nothing can separate you from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus, neither height nor depth.....He knows what we go through, and His love is steadfast! He loves us joyful, and broken....His love will never leave us, no matter the depths. Lean on the truth, ask Him to lift you out, wait on Him, trust in His care. His word says it matters to Him concerning you....I can testify to His faithfulness!

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Trapped

One time I found myself with a group of adult church kids, both brothers and sisters, all of whom were disillusioned and bitter about their years growing up the local churches. During the time one of the sisters expressed that she was struggling with depression and feelings of low self-worth, and that one reason (of many) she stopped going to the meetings was that hearing things like “You are nothing and Christ is everything, all we are is worthless and sinful, you deserved the cross and God can only even stand to look at you because you are covered in Christ and thus when He looks at you He sees Christ, otherwise He would be repulsed by you and cannot exist where you are” made her feel even worse about herself than she already did.

OK so the gospel made someone feel worse so she stopped coming. Not the gospel's fault, sorry! "disillusioned and bitter" sounds like a problem. "Christ is everything" shouldn't make anyone feel bad. It is concerning however if no one from the local church is visiting her to help her.

Originally Posted by Trapped

Does anyone have any input/advice/response to this? While I understand the concept of a sick person not handling rich food, I realized what hit me wrong was that we are all “sick people”. The Lord came exactly for the sick, depressed, downtrodden, crushed, lowly. These ones needing help shouldn’t come to the church? Only mentally and emotionally fully healthy people are suited to hear what is spoken?

But you said before coming to meetings made her feel worse. Why should the elder encourage her to come then?

Originally Posted by Trapped

I had the thought that maybe what is being spoken in the meetings, or the way it is being conveyed, could be the problem. On the other hand, maybe there is some truth to it and if we are not in the right condition to hear certain things, it is better we don’t hear them? I don’t know. I just hated not being able to have any answer for her and would appreciate any thoughts anyone has.

Why does it always have to be the meeting that's the problem? If she goes to a doctor they are probably going to give her medicine for her problem. Sorry but people have to stop blaming other people for their problems.

No answer? Why not tell her what the bible says - rejoice in the Lord always. Get over the bitterness - forgive, or whatever you have to do, and move on.

In my experience, if local church people say anything in the meeting, it's with a smile, rejoicing, hallelujahs and the occasional fist pump. Sincere or not, I don't know, but it shouldn't make anyone depressed!

[byHismercy]

Originally Posted by Trapped

One time I found myself with a group of adult church kids, both brothers and sisters, all of whom were disillusioned and bitter about their years growing up the local churches....

Brother, James 5:14 is any sick among you? Let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: 15 and the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

If the elders in the church are not willing to pray for the sick.....it is an assembly without the love of God....a true sign of error. Time to seek another assembly, one without the red flags the LC is flying.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by byHismercy

If the elders in the church are not willing to pray for the sick.....it is an assembly without the love of God....a true sign of error. Time to seek another assembly, one without the red flags the LC is flying.

Why didn't she call the elders then? If she did, and they didn't pray, that's wrong! If I was the elder someone said "your meetings are making me sick", I wouldn't know how to pray.

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Trapped

One time I found myself with a group of adult church kids, both brothers and sisters, all of whom were disillusioned and bitter about their years growing up the local churches. During the time one of the sisters expressed that she was struggling with depression and feelings of low self-worth, and that one reason (of many) she stopped going to the meetings was that hearing things like “You are nothing and Christ is everything, all we are is worthless and sinful, you deserved the cross and God can only even stand to look at you because you are covered in Christ and thus when He looks at you He sees Christ, otherwise He would be repulsed by you and cannot exist where you are” made her feel even worse about herself than she already did.

Are there any verses or stories in the Bible that back this "God is repulsed by you and cannot stand to look at you unless you are clothed in Christ" concept? (I know God forsook Jesus, but that was literally the entire sin of all humankind ever.) I'm trying to help someone who feels this way to not feel this way.

[Jo S]

Originally Posted by Trapped

Are there any verses or stories in the Bible that back this "God is repulsed by you and cannot stand to look at you unless you are clothed in Christ" concept? (I know God forsook Jesus, but that was literally the entire sin of all humankind ever.) I'm trying to help someone who feels this way to not feel this way.

I don't recall anything in scripture that would lead someone to believe this. And of course the Gospels refute this concept. Jesus had compassion on the worst of sinners throughout his ministry. The Father was in him and he in the Father so whomever Jesus looked upon, God the Father also did.

However, even though Jesus can look upon you with the greatest love he does expect you repent if you wish to receive and follow him. Jesus said you cannot enter heaven without the baptism of the Holy Spirit and to do so you have to have faith and repentance (many overlook the latter). Without this you cannot be in close relationship with Him.

Happy Easter/Passover to you Trapped

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Trapped

One time I found myself with a group of adult church kids, both brothers and sisters, all of whom were disillusioned and bitter about their years growing up the local churches. During the time one of the sisters expressed that she was struggling with depression and feelings of low self-worth, and that one reason (of many) she stopped going to the meetings was that hearing things like “You are nothing and Christ is everything, all we are is worthless and sinful, you deserved the cross and God can only even stand to look at you because you are covered in Christ and thus when He looks at you He sees Christ, otherwise He would be repulsed by you and cannot exist where you are” made her feel even worse about herself than she already did.

Originally Posted by Trapped

Are there any verses or stories in the Bible that back this "God is repulsed by you and cannot stand to look at you unless you are clothed in Christ" concept? (I know God forsook Jesus, but that was literally the entire sin of all humankind ever.) I'm trying to help someone who feels this way to not feel this way.

Too many verses in the Bible speak of man's dead and sinful condition (e.g. Eph 2.3-5) and the wickedness of his heart (e.g. Jer 17.9; Mark 7.21-23), but never speak of us being worthless. Many verses (e.g. John 3.16; Rom 5.8) make it abundantly clear that God loves us to the uttermost -- an unconditional love -- which enabled Him to die for us.

Let me comment on your friend, and others, who have feelings of worthlessness. Many parents never learn to distinguish the worth of their children and their bad behavior. They demean their child during disciplining. WL's teachings on this matter were never helpful. Proper discipline never assaults a child's value or self-esteem. Many children are wrongly taught that their parent's love is conditional. True love, what the Bible calls agape love, is unconditional, and independent of our behavior. When a child does not learn unconditional love from his/her parents, it's so much harder to learn unconditional love from our heavenly Father. It's just how it is.

What a mistake it was for us to accept anything W. Lee taught about raising children! His own pathetic sons were proof! Lee sowed many bad "pseudo-spiritual" seeds of teaching into us about marriage, relationships, and raising children. I would whole-heartedly recommend Dr. James Dobson on this subject.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Trapped

Are there any verses or stories in the Bible that back this "God is repulsed by you and cannot stand to look at you unless you are clothed in Christ" concept? (I know God forsook Jesus, but that was literally the entire sin of all humankind ever.) I'm trying to help someone who feels this way to not feel this way.

For those who believe, the verses are to the contrary. You might consider asking this “someone” to provide you with verses for what he or she believes. This is what Jesus says to us:

IN CHRIST, I AM ACCEPTED...

I am God’s child ~ John 1:12
12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God.

I am a friend of Jesus Christ ~ John 15:15
15 I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you.

I have been justified and accepted by God ~ Romans 5:1
1 Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

I am united with the Lord, and I am one with him in spirit ~ 1 Corinthians 6:17
17 But whoever is united with the Lord is one with him in spirit.
I have been bought with a price, and I belong to God ~ 1 Corinthians 6:19-20
19 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.

I am a member of Christ’s body ~ 1 Corinthians 12:27
27 Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it.

I have been redeemed and forgiven of all my sins ~ Colossians 1:13-14
13 For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

I am complete in Christ ~ Colossians 2:9-10
9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, 10 and in Christ you have been brought to full- ness. He is the head over every power and authority.

I have direct access to the throne of grace through Jesus Christ ~ Hebrews 4:14-16
14 Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. 15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin. 16 Let us then approach God’s throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.

IN CHRIST, I AM SECURE...

I am free from condemnation ~ Romans 8:1-2
1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you[a] free from the law of sin and death.[/B]

I am assured that God works for my good in all circumstances ~ Romans 8:28
28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called accord- ing to his purpose.

I cannot be separated from the love of God ~ Romans 8:31-39
31 What, then, shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?32 He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us
all things? 33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34 Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36 As it is written:
“For your sake we face death all day long;
we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.”
37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future,nor any powers, 39 nei- ther height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

I have been established, anointed, and sealed by God ~ 2 Corinthians 1:21-22
21 Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, 22 set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

I am hidden with Christ in God ~ Colossians 3:1-4
1 Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. 2 Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. 3 For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, who is your[a] life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.

I am confident that God will complete the good work he started in me ~ Philippians 1:6
6 being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

I am a citizen of Heaven ~ Philippians 3:20
20 But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ,

I do not have the spirit of fear but of power, love, and a sound mind ~ 2 Timothy 1:7
7 For the Spirit God gave us does not make us timid, but gives us power, love and self-discipline.

I am born of God, and the evil one cannot touch me ~ 1 John 5:18
18 We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them.

IN CHRIST, I AM SIGNIFICANT...
I am the branch of Jesus Christ, the true vine, and a channel of his life ~ John 15:5
5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit;apart from me you can do nothing.

I am God’s temple ~ 1 Corinthians 3:16
16 Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in your midst?

I am a minister of reconciliation for God ~ 2 Corinthians 5:17-21
17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has commit- ted to us the message of reconciliation. 20 We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were mak- ing his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God. 21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

I am seated with Jesus Christ in the heavenly realm ~ Ephesians 2:6
6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,

I am God’s workmanship, created to do works prepared in advance ~ Ephesians 2:10
10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

I may approach God with freedom and confidence ~ Ephesians 3:12
12 In him and through faith in him we may approach God with freedom and confidence.

I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me ~ Philippians 4:13
13 I can do all this through him who gives me strength.

I am an heir of God, and co-heir with Christ ~ Galatians 4:7
7 So you are no longer a slave, but God’s child; and since you are his child, God has made you also an heir.

I have been chosen and appointed to bear fruit ~ John 15:16
16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you.

[Trapped]

Thank you Jo S, Ohio, and Nell. Your responses help.

Jo S, I like the point that Jesus had compassion on the worst of sinners. This is kind of peripherally related, but, I think it's the most hilarious thing that Jesus walked up to Matthew smack in the middle of Matthew's collecting taxes.....the thing everyone absolutely despised the most and the people considered the worst sinners.....and called him. And Jesus didn't dress him down or express any repulsion....He just called him.

Ohio, yeah, very helpful. The verses you provide help me with that line I was having so much trouble navigating, where I had to admit and acknowledge that we are in a bad condition and should be aware of that, but it doesn't mean God is repulsed by us, rather, it's the opposite!

I think LC church kids that take what they hear to heart will end up struggling with low self esteem. Parents who parent according to certain WLee principles won't do their kids any favors either.

Nell, that's a great point to ask her to give me verses to backup what she's been told. Concepts that bind have a way of loosening when you realize certain thoughts about God are not what He's ever said. That may also be a great beginning "nutcracker" experience for her to be able to start to bring more crushing concepts about God to the light of the truth on her own. And wow! Thanks for detailing out all those verses. I think my church kid friend's focus is too much on her own bad self rather than focusing on what Christ has done for us.

Trapped

[HERn]

Nell, that was a work of the Spirit! Thanks for posting those verses.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by HERn

Nell, that was a work of the Spirit! Thanks for posting those verses.

These verses were compiled in the writing and ministry of Neil T. Anderson and appear in his book Victory Over Darkness. And yes, a powerful work of the spirit. His book, The Bondage Breaker, has helped me over the years, first to get out of the bondage I experienced in the LC, and to stay out of the bondage that we tend to fall back into.

John 10:10 tells us about the work of the thief: kill, steal, and destroy. I think Christians don’t take this warning seriously enough. I know I forget...! How is that possible?

Anyway, it’s a powerful list of verses.

Nell

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Trapped

Are there any verses or stories in the Bible that back this "God is repulsed by you and cannot stand to look at you unless you are clothed in Christ" concept? (I know God forsook Jesus, but that was literally the entire sin of all humankind ever.) I'm trying to help someone who feels this way to not feel this way.

Bro Trapped, the only one that comes to mind is not specific to Christ but since Jesus said he only speaks what the Father tells him :

Gen 6:5-6 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.