All About His LOVE!

[Sons to Glory!]

It occurred to me almost 20 years ago, that the love of God was the way to understand the Bible. That is, after all is said about what He has done, is doing, and will do, it all comes down to His amazing love for us! He loves us and just wants an ongoing relationship with us.

When I began seeing this, many things in scripture started to open to me like never before and began to make sense. I saw and experienced so much more in a short period of time, than I did in decades before. Why? I saw it was all about His love for us! (Yes He is righteous, but Christ was sent in love to satisfy all that.)

A few definitions and observations regarding love:

1. God is love (“God so loved . . .”)
2. Love never fails (all other things fail: knowledge, teachings, etc.)
3. Two greatest NT commandments are exhorting us to love
4. Faith, hope and love remain – but the greatest is LOVE
5. John, the “love apostle” has the final word in NT – epistles talk much about love
6. The church of brotherly love (Philadelphia) receives the specific encouragement
7. Without love – we’re meaningless and empty

If you have the right teaching or practice, but it could stumble your brother, we don’t go there – why? Love. The entire law summed up – love God; love others.

This new love understanding really helped with the book of Revelation, when we went through it last year. I realized it was actually a book of love! It makes perfect sense to me now, but I think that concept is a little startling at first. Like a cancer in the body, God must deal with the cancerous kingdom on this earth. So he must judge it and take it out. Why? He loves us! So even the book with all the apparently fearful judgments in it are all about His love!

This is the proper way to view the Bible. But I used to view it through a lens of fear and potential punishment (“I knew You were a hard man . . .”).

[Evangelical]

God is also life and light ("I am the way, the truth and the life"), and I think life and light is more important (without life, nothing would exist, and the loving act of sending Jesus to die for us would not mean much without eternal life, and without light, nothing would grow, everything would be in darkness). If we study the bible through the lens of life we cannot go too wrong. Without life, God's love does not make much sense or have much value (God loves us because He gave us life). Some Christians go astray because they get too far into the deep end of love and ignoring life and light - the kind of love without life and light is the New Age or maybe the gay marriage kind of love, or maybe the Mother Teresa "hindus are saved" kind of love.

[A little brother]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

God is also life and light ("I am the way, the truth and the life"), and I think life and light is more important (without life, nothing would exist, and the loving act of sending Jesus to die for us would not mean much without eternal life, and without light, nothing would grow, everything would be in darkness). If we study the bible through the lens of life we cannot go too wrong. Without life, God's love does not make much sense or have much value (God loves us because He gave us life). Some Christians go astray because they get too far into the deep end of love and ignoring life and light - the kind of love without life and light is the New Age or maybe the gay marriage kind of love, or maybe the Mother Teresa "hindus are saved" kind of love.

Without God's love, life also doesn't make much sense or have much value.

I would propose all the attributes (love, light, holiness, righteous, ...) of God are important. When we try to rank one above the other based on our limited personal experience, we can easily get astray.

Ecc 7:18 It is better for you to take hold of the one without letting go of the other, for he who fears God will come out of it with them all.

[UntoHim]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

If we study the bible through the lens of life we cannot go too wrong...

If this were true, Mr. E, we wouldn't be here on this forum, now would we. Where has "not caring for right or wrong" and "just caring for life" got the Local Church of Witness Lee these past 50 or 60 years? Well, let's just see...Well, it's got them labeled as a Christian cult of sorts. It's led to all manner of Christian cult awareness people, apologists, etc taking a closer look at the teachings and practices (and most of the time coming away extremely alarmed and concerned). "Just caring for life" and not the plain commandments of the Word of God has got them suing their brothers in Christ (and in the process ending up wasting tens of MILLIONS of the saints hard earned $, and then, in the end, getting spanked by the secular courts).

Shall I continue?

Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful.
(1 Corinthians 13:4,5)

EVERY one of us - Individual Christians and churches and ministries alike, especially any of us who claim to be the standard bearers of the truth and light of God, need to take a long, long look in the mirror to see if our words and actions towards our neighbors and fellow members of the Body of Christ reflect the apostle's admonitions to the Corinthians. He didn't say "Life is patient and kind; Life does not envy or boast, Life does not..."

It turns out that Witness Lee, and now, obviously many of his followers, got it backwards, or at the very least, got their priorities mixed up. And it turns out the result is that a movement that claims to be "The Lord's Recovery" has basically turned into a noisy gong and a clanging cymbal. Why? How? By not caring for life? By not meeting as the church in one city? By not striving for the high peak truths?
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[Evangelical]

If it is backwards then why did Jesus never say "I came to love" ?. Jesus said that He came to give life (John 10:10). So the point of the cross was so we could have eternal life, not eternal love. That life is more important than love is common sense - when a baby is born into the world, first they get life, then they get love. If a baby cannot breathe, the doctors will try to give the baby life, not love. A sinner, who is dead in their sins, first needs life, before they can receive love.

[UntoHim]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

If it is backwards then why did Jesus never say "I came to love" ?. Jesus said that He came to give life (John 10:10). So the point of the cross was so we could have eternal life, not eternal love.

Ok Mr. E, let's try to make this simpler. Basically, you are confusing something we receive from God - Life, with something that we give to others - Love. We receive life from God and we give love to others.

A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another.
John 13:34

I think you need to pray-read John 13:34 over and over until you get it. I believe this verse encapsulates the thrust of what Sons To Glory! was getting at in his opening post. He can certainly correct me if I'm wrong.
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[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by A little brother

Without God's love, life also doesn't make much sense or have much value.

I would propose all the attributes (love, light, holiness, righteous, ...) of God are important. When we try to rank one above the other based on our limited personal experience, we can easily get astray.

Ecc 7:18 It is better for you to take hold of the one without letting go of the other, for he who fears God will come out of it with them all.

Disagree. Without love, life still retains value as the ability or means to exist. Life is more important than love. That's why hospitals have things called "life support" machines, not "love support". Most of Christianity who focus too much on love miss the point of the cross which was to give life to the world, not love. Jesus never said he died for the world to give it love, but to give life. That is the main difference between the New Age "love Jesus" and the biblical Jesus. Christians who believe the "love gospel" can give up if they don't feel God's love anymore. But Christians who believe the "life gospel" know they have something of value regardless of whether they feel God's love or not. Christians also misunderstand God's love in sending His Son to die for the world - they overemphasize its emotional attributes and talk about God "shedding tears" and all this nonsense, when the biblical meaning is much less emotional, as an act of benevolence or good will.

[A little brother]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Disagree. Without love, life still retains value as the ability or means to exist. Life is more important than love. That's why hospitals have things called "life support" machines, not "love support". Most of Christianity who focus too much on love miss the point of the cross which was to give life to the world, not love. Jesus never said he died for the world to give it love, but to give life. That is the main difference between the New Age "love Jesus" and the biblical Jesus. Christians who believe the "love gospel" can give up if they don't feel God's love anymore. But Christians who believe the "life gospel" know they have something of value regardless of whether they feel God's love or not. Christians also misunderstand God's love in sending His Son to die for the world - they overemphasize its emotional attributes and talk about God "shedding tears" and all this nonsense, when the biblical meaning is much less emotional, as an act of benevolence or good will.

What is your scripture support of life more important than love?

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by A little brother

What is your scripture support of life more important than love?

Sons to Glory has explained that God's motive for giving us life is love. Actions are more important than motives in this instance, because it is concerned with saving souls from eternal destruction. What's more important is the life, not the motive that God had in giving it. Well Jesus dying to give life (not love) makes life more important. This is also implicit in the gospel tracts where belief in Christ for eternal life is deemed more important than obedience to the 10 commandments (including the 2 love commandments). Every gospel tract starts with us being sinners and deserving death, and we need to believe and receive life.

John 10:28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.

Mark 10:45 For even the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

Matt 20:28 even as the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

John 10:10 I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

John 6:27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For on him God the Father has set his seal.”


Jesus dying on the cross is about Him giving His life in place of our (sinful) life so we may have eternal life. The problem was not that humankind lacked love, the problem was they were dead in sins and lacked life. This makes life more important than love.

We could put it like this:

God's life gave life to mankind (Adam and Eve, creation). Mankind lost God's life (the fall), so in sending Christ, God gave mankind life back (action) because of His love ( motive).

The reason God sent His Son to die is less important than giving us the opportunity to be saved eternally.

With the "golden verse"

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son

People often put emphasis on the "For God so loved the world" part, but the emphasis should be on the "he gave his one and only Son" part because that is the one important act by which we may have eternal life.

Go back one verse, and we can see that the context is about having life, not love:

John 3:15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him."

Go back two verses and we see that it relates to the bronze snake on the pole:

John 3:14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,

God sent poisonous snakes, those who were bitten died, any who had faith and looked upon the bronze snake were given life. This is not as much a love story as some make it out to be, it's a story of life and death, punishment and forgiveness. Remember that the loving God who gave life was also the one who sent the poisonous snakes because He is just. This answers a typical question "if God loves us why did Jesus have to die, couldn't he just refuse to punish us and forgive us?". So God's justice and love must be considered in balance.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Disagree. Without love, life still retains value as the ability or means to exist. Life is more important than love. That's why hospitals have things called "life support" machines, not "love support". Most of Christianity who focus too much on love miss the point of the cross which was to give life to the world, not love. Jesus never said he died for the world to give it love, but to give life. That is the main difference between the New Age "love Jesus" and the biblical Jesus. Christians who believe the "love gospel" can give up if they don't feel God's love anymore. But Christians who believe the "life gospel" know they have something of value regardless of whether they feel God's love or not. Christians also misunderstand God's love in sending His Son to die for the world - they overemphasize its emotional attributes and talk about God "shedding tears" and all this nonsense, when the biblical meaning is much less emotional, as an act of benevolence or good will.

Only the followers of Lee support this view.

The rest of the body of Christ support Jesus' view (Mark 12.30-31) and Paul's (I Cor 13).

In fact, Paul says even if your life ends for noble cause, without love it is all worthless. (v. 3)

[Sons to Glory!]

Well now . . . this discussion went in a direction I didn't anticipate!

So I began this thread with sharing my experience of what the Lord showed me. I don't know so much about the paths others were led on, but this is the one He led me on. When I saw the underlying motive for it all was His love for us, that is when scriptures opened to me in a fresh way. And what I have seen about life since has been in the perspective of His love motive. It's why He came. It's why He endured - for the joy set before Him (us) - becoming the One Grain that fell into the ground to die, to BRING US FORTH IN LIFE. Why? He loves us.

So why do we get His life? He loves us. Why does He want His Son revealed in us? He loves us. Why does He give us His glory and wants us in the one fellowship? He LOVES us!

It is the answer to all the whys - why He came and did all of it. Like little children, we can ask why, why why. Why? He loves us.

And in love for us, He took care of the righteous requirement and all things that stand in our way from enjoying a loving relationship with Him and others.

I can think of only two things the Bible specifically says God is - "God is love" and "God is light." (both pronounced by the "love apostle")

(But of course, we can go to an unhealthy extreme and start to imagine things that aren't in scripture, like advocating universalism, or complete prosperity, or no accountability, and the such.)

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

It occurred to me almost 20 years ago, that the love of God was the way to understand the Bible. That is, after all is said about what He has done, is doing, and will do, it all comes down to His amazing love for us! He loves us and just wants an ongoing relationship with us.

I don't know how God's Love lost it in the first place. I like to believe that God's Love is so powerful that He will win it all back in the end. But what do I know. I'm just glad that there's such a thing as God's Love ... or I/we ... prolly wouldn't even be here.

God is not just loving, God IS love.
It’s quite ironic for me to see those who holds “if we believe the bible to be true...” etc etc to say that the fact that God is love is less important than that God is life. It’s the same God. Don’t carve yourself an idol or your own image of a god who is less than our Lord Jesus Christ who embodies love and life to be fullest.

I used to be someone who rolls my eyes over the overuse of God is love until the spirit really opens me up with real experience of who He is as love - Paul asks the church to grasp together the dimensions of God’s love.