Question of salvation and reconciliation.

[Truthseeker]

This week, people in LSM are reading Crystallization of Leviticus as Morning Revival. This book is talking about peace offering. The main subject is the question of salvation and reconciliation. Two days ago, in Morning revival, Lee said that we might not have only individual reconciliation and salvation but also corporate reconciliation and salvation.
I feel weird in these teaching. So, let us discuss the truth about this.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

This week, people in LSM are reading Crystallization of Leviticus as Morning Revival. This book is talking about peace offering. The main subject is the question of salvation and reconciliation. Two days ago, in Morning revival, Lee said that we might not have only individual reconciliation and salvation but also corporate reconciliation and salvation.
I feel weird in these teaching. So, let us discuss the truth about this.

I feel weird about this teaching of theirs too.

LSM has no standing to discuss corporate reconciliation with all the expulsions, quarantines, and lawsuits they have inflicted upon others who once graced their trainings and conferences.

If their attitude towards reconciliation determines their salvation, then I wonder how they can claim to be saved?

History tells us that LSM has never reconciled with any brother or group that disagreed with them.

[aron]

I don't have scripture in front of me, so forgive me for being vague. I believe that both epistles to Hebrews and Ephesians talk about peace and reconciliation, and Christ's role therein.

Ephesians in particular is interesting. There was a wall in the temple, separating the outer and inner courts. On the wall hung a sign: "No gentiles can go beyond here". Christ broke down that wall between the "holy people of God" and the "unclean gentile dogs", so making peace. Read Ephesians 2:14 - it's quite explicit.

Then the gentiles kicked out the Jews. Cyril of Alexandria (re: riots and murder of Hypatia), John Chrysostom, Augustine, Ambrose, and others were judgmental and adversarial. It seems as if every tribe and tongue and nation were indeed invited into to kingdom, except the original one.

Then, not surprising, the gentile nations began warring. The "Chalcedon rift" of the 4th century was ostensibly over the " nature" of Christ, but it was really about power- who got the last word, Antioch, or Rome, Constantinople, or Alexandria?

The peace was gone, interestingly while Christianity was ideologically ascendant. Syria, Ethiopia, Libya, Persia(Iran), Turkey, Egypt, Greece, Italy - all were heavily Christianised.

Today it is still "the way of the gentiles" from what I can see. Organisational formulations and doctrines are the pathways to power. "Do what I say and there will be peace". . . .hello Mssrs Dong. Chu, Nee, Lee, and Blendeds Wee.

[aron]

Originally Posted by aron

Ephesians is interesting - there was a wall in the temple, separating the outer and inner courts. On the wall hung a sign: "No gentiles can go beyond here". Christ broke down that wall between the "holy people of God" and the "unclean gentile dogs", so making peace. Read Ephesians 2:14 - it's quite explicit.

When king Herod had rebuilt the Temple in Jerusalem between 19 and 9 B.C. he enclosed the outer court with colonnades. The large separated area was referred to as the Court of the Gentiles because the "gentiles" (non-Jews from any race or religion) were permitted to enter this great open courtyard of the Temple area. They could walk within in it but they were forbidden to go any further than the outer court. They were excluded from entering into any of the inner courts, and warning signs in Greek and Latin were placed giving strict warning that the penalty for such trespass was death.

The Romans permitted the Jewish authorities to carry out the death penalty for this offence, even if the offender were a Roman citizen. The engraved block of limestone was discovered in Jerusalem in 1871. It's dimensions are about 22 inches high by 33 inches long. Each letter was nearly 1 1/2 inches high and originally painted with red ink against the white limestone. Part of another sign was unearthed in 1936. It's current location is in the Archaeological Museum of Istanbul, Turkey. Jerusalem was part of the Ottoman Empire in Turkey when the stone was found.

Josephus the Jewish historian of the first century A.D. wrote about the warning signs in Greek and Latin that were placed on the barrier wall that separated the court of the gentiles from the other courts in the Temple. Not until 1871 did archaeologists actually discover one written in Greek. Its seven line inscription reads as follows:

NO FOREIGNER IS TO GO BEYOND THE BALUSTRADE AND THE PLAZA OF THE TEMPLE ZONE WHOEVER IS CAUGHT DOING SO WILL HAVE HIMSELF TO BLAME FOR HIS DEATH WHICH WILL FOLLOW

The Temple Warning Inscription is important in the study of Biblical Archaeology and confirms events outlined in Scripture. When Jesus saw this inscription he knew that his own life would be the cost for the gentiles to go past this barrier.

Ephesians 2:13-14 "But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us"

https://www.bible-history.com/archae...e-warning.html

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I feel weird about this teaching of theirs too.

LSM has no standing to discuss corporate reconciliation with all the expulsions, quarantines, and lawsuits they have inflicted upon others who once graced their trainings and conferences.

If their attitude towards reconciliation determines their salvation, then I wonder how they can claim to be saved?

History tells us that LSM has never reconciled with any brother or group that disagreed with them.

That's all it can be called is teaching. It's no practice. Just as you say Ohio, history tells us otherwise.
Obviously reconciliation is a concept and not a spiritual responsibility.
The track record is to place emphasis on "trust". How much a brother can be trusted.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by Ohio

History tells us that LSM has never reconciled with any brother or group that disagreed with them.

Is that 100% accurate bro? (Would you completely discount brother Hanegraaff?)

I would agree to maybe the 99% level, but "never" is a distinctly absolute statement, right? If there is ever to be any reconciliation in love, then we must . . .

Help us Lord!

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

Is that 100% accurate bro? (Would you completely discount brother Hanegraaff?)

I would agree to maybe the 99% level, but "never" is a distinctly absolute statement, right? If there is ever to be any reconciliation in love, then we must . . .

Help us Lord!

I could add Gene Ford whose penance was working in the kitchen and digging tunnels in Taipei. What Lee and the Blendeds forced him to do in order to be restored to their good graces!

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I could add Gene Ford whose penance was working in the kitchen and digging tunnels in Taipei. What Lee and the Blendeds forced him to do in order to be restored to their good graces!

What is your ultimate purpose with this brother? Is it pointing out flaws (with the end of helping others) or possible reconciliation in love?

Sorry if that's blunt, but that's what's in me to ask.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

What is your ultimate purpose with this brother? Is it pointing out flaws (with the end of helping others) or possible reconciliation in love?
Sorry if that's blunt, but that's what's in me to ask.

My ultimate purpose with this brother?

What does that even mean?

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

Is that 100% accurate bro? (Would you completely discount brother Hanegraaff?) I would agree to maybe the 99% level, but "never" is a distinctly absolute statement, right? If there is ever to be any reconciliation in love, then we must . . .Help us Lord!

I would discount Hanegraff. If it had been Walter Martin instead of Hank, you would have a point. Opinions other past and current posters have raised was Hank could be bought with a dollar amount. If LSM offered enough, then certainly CRI could be wrong.

Key phrase uttered in your post was "reconciliation in love". When has there been love? Trust seems to have been key in the local churches for fellowship to continue. If there's been love, it's been on a conditional basis.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by Terry

I would discount Hanegraff. If it had been Walter Martin instead of Hank, you would have a point...

Whose responsibility is it to love others "first?"

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

This week, people in LSM are reading Crystallization of Leviticus as Morning Revival. This book is talking about peace offering. The main subject is the question of salvation and reconciliation. Two days ago, in Morning revival, Lee said that we might not have only individual reconciliation and salvation but also corporate reconciliation and salvation.
I feel weird in these teaching. So, let us discuss the truth about this.

What is it about the matter of a corporate reconciliation to God that makes you feel weird? I haven't done a verse count, but a large portion of the verses in the OT & NT regarding God's salvation of man actually refer not to the individual but to His corporate people.

Regarding the teaching, the matter spoken of regarding salvation and reconciliation is not discussing the matter of believers being reconciled to one another specifically, but being reconciled to God. The point is bringing out that in an experiential way, God has judicially redeemed and is reconciling each individual to Himself (2 Cor. 5:18; Rom. 5:10). From the divine perspective, however, God has judicially redeemed and is continually reconciling not only all of the elect to Himself but even the entire universe (2 Cor. 5:19; Col. 1:20 cf. Jn. 3:16; 1:29).

@Truthseeker, do you meet with the LCs or are you just still in fellowship with some believers who do? Interesting that you'd know the churches were in that particular HWMR

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

What is it about the matter of a corporate reconciliation to God that makes you feel weird? I haven't done a verse count, but a large portion of the verses in the OT & NT regarding God's salvation of man actually refer not to the individual but to His corporate people.

I feel a little "weird" about LSM's teaching of a "corporate reconciliation" since they have been so public with their condemnations of all other Christians and churches, and quarantine so many of their own people.

Perhaps hypocrisy is a better word for this.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I feel a little "weird" about LSM's teaching of a "corporate reconciliation" since they have been so public with their condemnations of all other Christians and churches, and quarantine so many of their own people.

Perhaps hypocrisy is a better word for this.

Any talk about reconciliation is just lipservice until it actually happens. LC track record is the leadership is never wrong and won't apologize for anything.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

...@Truthseeker, do you meet with the LCs or are you just still in fellowship with some believers who do? Interesting that you'd know the churches were in that particular HWMR

Truthseeker, I feel weird about someone not registered on the forum trying to get personal information from you.

Nell