DCP

[leastofthese]

The signature of one member of this forum states, "Judaism is Satanic Catholicism is demonic and Christianity is christless - Witness Lee."

I decided to look a little further into this (supposed) quote and found the following website: https://contendingforthefaith.org/en...protestantism/

The quote on this site is actually as follows, "Judaism is Satanic, Catholicism is demonic, and Protestantism is Christless."

It is an interesting site, that justifies its own existence not on scripture, but instead by the works of Watchman Nee. Their conclusion to why DCP lawsuits are permitted is, "From this exchange we can perceive that Watchman Nee drew a distinction between a lawsuit filed for personal gain or interest, such as the one recorded in 1 Corinthians, and those involving the protection of basic freedoms and the defense of the truth."

I'm not familiar with the DCP and wasn't aware of its existence when I attended the Local Churches of Witness Lee. Does the DCP defend every position of Witness Lee and Watchman Nee? After perusing the site for awhile, it seems as though every position of Nee/Lee that is questioned required a defense. Is there any section or historical account where the DCP (not CRI) says "We were wrong"? Given the difficult reality of the LSM churches today (not to mention in years past), surely there was something Lee/Nee got wrong, right?

If the DCP has no need to admit error or wrongdoing by Lee/Nee, what should be our conclusion?

[TLFisher]

DCP will never issue any retractions of wrongdoings. Rather suggest those critical of the recovery have "imagined offenses, perceived wrongdoings" and based it entirely on rumor and slander.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by leastofthese

Their conclusion to why DCP lawsuits are permitted is, "From this exchange we can perceive that Watchman Nee drew a distinction between a lawsuit filed for personal gain or interest, such as the one recorded in 1 Corinthians, and those involving the protection of basic freedoms and the defense of the truth."

Wow! So the lawsuits "Protected basic freedoms" and they were the "defense of the truth"?

Watchman Nee is able to decide what part of the Bible to obey and what part to ignore?

Their lawsuits were "not for personal gain"?

arrogance. : an attitude of superiority manifested in an overbearing manner or in presumptuous claims or assumptions.

From this statement DCP admits the Bible prohibits lawsuits but view Watchman Nee's "distinctions" as superseding the word of God.

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by leastofthese

I'm not familiar with the DCP and wasn't aware of its existence when I attended the Local Churches of Witness Lee. Does the DCP defend every position of Witness Lee and Watchman Nee? After perusing the site for awhile, it seems as though every position of Nee/Lee that is questioned required a defense. Is there any section or historical account where the DCP (not CRI) says "We were wrong"? Given the difficult reality of the LSM churches today (not to mention in years past), surely there was something Lee/Nee got wrong, right?

Whether anyone in the LCM will admit it or not, Nee and Lee are perceived to be inerrant teachers. To everyone outside the LCM, Nee and Lee are highly controversial teachers. In that sense, I see the DCP as more of a PR department. They aren't actually doing anything to provide a meaningful defense of Nee/Lee, but they are working to create and maintain a certain image.

As part of upholding that image, there is no room for them to admit to any kind of wrongdoing, either by Lee or the LCM. As soon as they've admitted that, they've admitted defeat.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Freedom

Whether anyone in the LCM will admit it or not, Nee and Lee are perceived to be inerrant teachers. To everyone outside the LCM, Nee and Lee are highly controversial teachers. In that sense, I see the DCP as more of a PR department. They aren't actually doing anything to provide a meaningful defense of Nee/Lee, but they are working to create and maintain a certain image.

As part of upholding that image, there is no room for them to admit to any kind of wrongdoing, either by Lee or the LCM. As soon as they've admitted that, they've admitted defeat.

If you understand this, you understand everything about them, and nothing they do will ever surprise you.

For example, take a look at the following statement ...

Originally Posted by leastofthese

The signature of one member of this forum states, "Judaism is Satanic, Catholicism is demonic, and Christianity is Christless - Witness Lee."

Consider the bolded third segment of this saying. Nee initially said that Laodicea resulted when Philadelphia became proud and arrogant. (See his Orthodoxy of the Church) In their epistle, the Son of Man stood at the church in Laodicea's door and knocked. (Rev 3.20) Nee then proclaimed that the Lord was outside of the church in Laodicea. How could the MOTA be wrong?

Lee took all of this further and proclaimed that the Lord stood knocking outside of the entire realm of Christianity. Thus, the whole of Christianity was entirely void of Christ. Hence, Christianity is Christless. How could the MOTA be wrong?

Each and every LSM/LC leader believes this unreservedly. It's part of their spiritual DNA. Just ask them. The Bible doesn't say it, but they believe it because their MOTA's said so. The words of Nee and Lee have superseded scripture. Their legal team at DCP "proved" it was true.

[Drake]

-1

Ohio,

Your argument is a technical one. It would be like objecting to the statement “DC is a swamp”. Not every politician or civil servant in DC represents the swamp just as not every christian in a denomination is without Christ. Either general statement can be true without it needing to be true in every instance.

Where the statement applies is that the Reformation did not return the headship to Christ but created another system (Protestantism), an improvement to the Catholic Satanic system which was also Christless.

Drake

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Drake

-1

Ohio,

Your argument is a technical one. It would be like objecting to the statement “DC is a swamp”. Not every politician or civil servant in DC represents the swamp just as not every christian in a denomination is without Christ. Either general statement can be true without it needing to be true in every instance.

Where the statement applies is that the Reformation did not return the headship to Christ but created another system (Protestantism), an improvement to the Catholic Satanic system which was also Christless.

Drake

Drake, you can talk "technicalities" all day long until the we finally get some warm weather which resembles springtime, but the fact is that almost without exception your typical LC member believes that the Lord is part of their meetings only, and that the Lord is outside the door of every other church gathering in Christianity.

To your archetypal adherent of LSM theology, "Christianity is Christless."

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Drake, you can talk "technicalities" all day long until the we finally get some warm weather which resembles springtime, but the fact is that almost without exception your typical LC member believes that the Lord is part of their meetings only, and that the Lord is outside the door of every other church gathering in Christianity.

To your archetypal adherent of LSM theology, "Christianity is Christless."

Maybe you need to read:

Christless Christianity: The Alternative Gospel of the American Church
Book by Michael Horton

Dr Michael has a PhD. He is also a professor of theology. If this is what a professor of theology is saying about Christianity.....

The book has a star rating of 4.5/5 on Amazon. Apparently this idea resonates with many people. Unfortunately many are not willing to address the problem and find a solution.

The funny thing is that Nee, Lee and the local churches have been addressing this problem of Christless Christianity for decades while denominations are either ignorant of the problem or still trying to figure out what to do about it.

Even though Horton has a shallow understanding of the problem, he has at least noticed the problem. But the problem is not that Christ is not preached from the pulpit. The problem is that the pulpits being preached from belong to man made organizations.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Drake, you can talk "technicalities" all day long until the we finally get some warm weather which resembles springtime, but the fact is that almost without exception your typical LC member believes that the Lord is part of their meetings only, and that the Lord is outside the door of every other church gathering in Christianity.

To your archetypal adherent of LSM theology, "Christianity is Christless."

Ohio,

That statement is completely bogus. I'll give you one exception.. me.

I was saved through a denomination, served in a denomination, have fellowship with brothers and sisters in denominations, and I know the Lord works in and through people in many places. I am typical or right of center so your assertion is already slipping away.

But wait... there's more.... You cannot possibly know what tens of thousands of believers in the Lord's Recovery think about this or any other belief. Unless you are claiming omnipotence there is the fallacy and absurdity of your claim.

Lastly, you apparently never understood the basic teaching in the Lord's Recovery of Revelation 2 & 3. Four of them will exist till He returns. Suggest you read Orthodoxy of the Church to understand what is actually taught.

Drake

Originally Posted by leastofthese

It is an interesting site, that justifies its own existence not on scripture, but instead by the works of Watchman Nee.

"For it is only right for me to feel this way about you all, because I have you in my heart, since both in my imprisonment and in the defense and confirmation of the gospel, you all are partakers of grace with me" (Phil. 1:7)

"the latter do it out of love, knowing that I am appointed for the defense of the gospel;" (Phil. 1:16)

The purpose of DCP's existence is listed on their home page: "DCP is a project to defend and confirm the New Testament ministry of Watchman Nee and Witness Lee and the practice of the local churches. This Web site addresses controversies that have arisen while also demonstrating the invaluable contributions these two faithful servants of the Lord have made in the opening of Scripture."

It makes sense for DCP to take their stand on Phil. 1:7, 16 and defending specifically the ministry of Watchman Nee & Witness Lee since they regard that ministry as being the highest presentation of the Gospel.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

"For it is only right for me to feel this way about you all, because I have you in my heart, since both in my imprisonment and in the defense and confirmation of the gospel, you all are partakers of grace with me" (Phil. 1:7)

"the latter do it out of love, knowing that I am appointed for the defense of the gospel;" (Phil. 1:16)

The purpose of DCP's existence is listed on their home page: "DCP is a project to defend and confirm the New Testament ministry of Watchman Nee and Witness Lee and the practice of the local churches. This Web site addresses controversies that have arisen while also demonstrating the invaluable contributions these two faithful servants of the Lord have made in the opening of Scripture."

It makes sense for DCP to take their stand on Phil. 1:7, 16 and defending specifically the ministry of Watchman Nee & Witness Lee since they regard that ministry as being the highest presentation of the Gospel.

And they "DEFEND and CONFIRM" Lee's ministry with intimidation, public shaming, lawsuits, backstabbing, quarantines, slander, libel, etc.

When Apostle Paul wrote these verses he never had these fleshly tactics in mind.