Lee's Biggest Injustice

[OGOP]

Obviously Lee was right on some of his Biblical interpretations, and wrong on so many other others. That being said... Lee's biggest injustice to his followers, in my opinion, is his denial of Christmas and Easter. These holidays are beautiful and are Christianity at their best. Celebrating the Lord's birth. Remembering his suffering and celebrating his resurrection.

Truly sad and depressing to think of all the misled Christians in the Lords Recovery who don't get to partake in these beautiful times of the year.

WL: "Another example is Christmas. Christmas is a blasphemy to Christ, and no Christian with a pure conscience should have anything to do with it. As the book, The Two Babylons, proves, Christmas originated from European paganism. Centuries before the Christian era, on December 25 the European pagans celebrated the birthday of the sun. When Constantine embraced Christianity, he encouraged the Roman citizens to become Christians, and he even rewarded many thousands for being baptized. Thousands who knew nothing of Christ were baptized and came into Christendom, bringing their pagan customs with them. Later, the name of Christ was attached to the birth of the sun god celebrated on December 25. In principle, the celebration of Easter is the same. Although some Christians in Orange County condemn us as heretical, they themselves still practice the pagan festival of Christmas. To be sure, during the three and a half years of the great tribulation all Christians will abandon such things as Christmas, Easter, the worship of Mary, and all paganism. ...I strongly believe that the Lord is using His recovery to produce the living firstfruit. This is the first function of the Lord’s recovery. After the rapture of the firstfruit, the local churches will be used by the Lord to help all the remaining Christians. This will be the second function of the recovery. During the great tribulation, Christians will have a proper place to which they can go. Christmas, Easter, and all the traditional things of Christianity will be discarded."

[kumbaya]

Thanks for posting. I find this really disturbing. I'm sure many of you know, but I feel to point out that a lot of non-Christian cults and even extreme Christian sects tend to preach along the same lines. Christmas and Easter are generally a time spent with family and friends. Right now, there are junior high and high school conferences going on the local churches, on Easter weekend. They can use the excuse that the winter trainings over Christmas are just held then bc people tend to be off work- but what about Easter weekend? I don't believe many people are off work for Easter. The passive aggressiveness is just so blatant.

Cults and unbalanced groups tend to break families apart-it's a common theme and tragic. I truly don't believe Jesus cares. If you think he does, fine! I don't think it's right to push your life choices on other people and create a shameful stigma for people who do choose to celebrate!

[Ohio]

I find Christmas and Easter to be a "shell" for the reality. Admittedly they are only visible and outward, but so is the Passover celebration to Israel. The Passover was established in the O.T. as an eternal memorial for all Israel, yet whether or not an Israelite actually believed in his heart was another matter.

Witness Lee's greatest hypocrisy was condemning Western Christian holy days like Christmas and Easter, and then using Chinese New Year to preach the gospel to the Chinese people. Was not CNY also pagan, filled with serpents and dragons? Yet Lee "recovered" it for the gospel.

Is this not what genuine Christians and churches have also done every year with Christmas and Easter? They celebrate Christ, His birth and His Resurrection. They "recover" Christmas and Easter.

Lee did't care that most Chinese celebrated pagan traditions on their CNY day, so why should we care that most Western people celebrate their party traditions? And they wonder why the LC's no longer look like America, but rather Taiwan.

[kumbaya]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I find Christmas and Easter to be a "shell" for the reality. Admittedly they are only visible and outward, but so is the Passover celebration to Israel. The Passover was established in the O.T. as an eternal memorial for all Israel, yet whether or not an Israelite actually believed in his heart was another matter.

Witness Lee's greatest hypocrisy was condemning Western Christian holy days like Christmas and Easter, and then using Chinese New Year to preach the gospel to the Chinese people. Was not CNY also pagan, filled with serpents and dragons? Yet Lee "recovered" it for the gospel.

Is this not what genuine Christians and churches have also done every year with Christmas and Easter? They celebrate Christ, His birth and His Resurrection. They "recover" Christmas and Easter.

Lee did't care that most Chinese celebrated pagan traditions on their CNY day, so why should we care that most Western people celebrate their party traditions? And they wonder why the LC's no longer look like America, but rather Taiwan.

I didn’t realize they did that! Was this a practice in Taiwan or the US too? It’s hypocritical, I just don’t remember seeing that.

Regardless, Christians are celebrating the birth and resurrection of Christ. Whatever it was in cultures centuries ago- it’s not anymore.

I also don’t like the last few sentences of the excerpt that compare celebrating Christmas/Easter with the worship of Mary/paganism-clearly demonizing the first two by sticking them with the latter.

Also, during the Great tribulation- he’s right, people might not celebrate those as much but I’m guessing it won’t be because everyone realizes that the local churches had it right all along and everyone just drops their meeting places/relationships in their churches and come running! This idea is so offensive and arrogant to other believers.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by kumbaya

I didn’t realize they did that! Was this a practice in Taiwan or the US too? It’s hypocritical, I just don’t remember seeing that.

One of LSM's seven annual "Feasts" occurs on Chinese New Year, a pagan atheistic, ancient celebration of serpents, dragons, and moonpies.



Since WL was the MOTA, only he gets to decide which holidays will get "recovered."

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Ohio

One of LSM's seven annual "Feasts" occurs on Chinese New Year, a pagan atheistic, ancient celebration
Since WL was the MOTA, only he gets to decide which holidays will get "recovered."

There is no comparison or hypocrisy. For example, there are no chocolate dragons or tales about the chocolate dragon representing "new birth" in Jesus. Easter on the other hand...it was decided that pagan symbols should represent spiritual truths..a little chocolate egg that represents Jesus given to all at the end of a church service. They are typically anointed with prayer by the chocolate manufacturers to guarantee that the church goers will come again next year. They might be laid by the dragon/devil himself as only a deceiver inverting the Gods laws of nature could convince children that bunny rabbits lay eggs.

[kumbaya]

Originally Posted by OGOP

WL: "Another example is Christmas. Christmas is a blasphemy to Christ, and no Christian with a pure conscience should have anything to do with it. As

OGOP, where is this quote from?

[OGOP]

https://www.ministrybooks.org/books....=2GCCHNC2GUP7L

"LIFE-STUDY OF REVELATION: MESSAGE FIFTY-ONE"

[kumbaya]

Originally Posted by OGOP

https://www.ministrybooks.org/books....=2GCCHNC2GUP7L

"LIFE-STUDY OF REVELATION: MESSAGE FIFTY-ONE"

Thank you!!

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by OGOP

Obviously Lee was right on some of his Biblical interpretations, and wrong on so many other others. That being said... Lee's biggest injustice to his followers, in my opinion, is his denial of Christmas and Easter. These holidays are beautiful and are Christianity at their best. Celebrating the Lord's birth. Remembering his suffering and celebrating his resurrection.

I thought every sunday is meant to celebrate the Lords death and resurrection? So why we need easter actually, except to remind people that go to church once a year that they should go to church?

The days that once a year hypocrites go to church sounds like a great time for real Christians to avoid.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

I thought every sunday is meant to celebrate the Lords death and resurrection? So why we need easter actually, except to remind people that go to church once a year that they should go to church?

The days that once a year hypocrites go to church sounds like a great time for real Christians to avoid.

And why are they hypocrites?

When the Shepherd left the 99 and found the one lost sheep, He condemned that one for being a hypocrite? Really?

The prodigal had not been to church in years, but as soon as he walked in the door, the whole church screamed "hypocrite?" Really?

Thank God our Savior does not have such a critical heart!

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Ohio

And why are they hypocrites?

When the Shepherd left the 99 and found the one lost sheep, He condemned that one for being a hypocrite? Really?

The prodigal had not been to church in years, but as soon as he walked in the door, the whole church screamed "hypocrite?" Really?

Thank God our Savior does not have such a critical heart!

It appears that Paul and Timothy agree with you:

Philippians 1
15 Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will:
16 The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds:
17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.
18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Ohio

And why are they hypocrites?

When the Shepherd left the 99 and found the one lost sheep, He condemned that one for being a hypocrite? Really?

The prodigal had not been to church in years, but as soon as he walked in the door, the whole church screamed "hypocrite?" Really?

Thank God our Savior does not have such a critical heart!

Seems to me that the shepherd/pastor went out of the church to find the lost. Not wait for them to show up once a year.

They would be like the prodigal son visiting his father once a year for his birthday but then going back to the worldly ways.
Those who come to church once a year every year are surely the repentant converts aren't they? They are so faithful to come once a year every year you can just tell they are so genuine. And the pastors get so excited too they put out extra chairs and wish them well until the next years Easter. They keep God happy I'm sure as they do their yearly service and function in their spiritual giftings once a year.

I guess the anointed easter eggs that the stores sell really work!

[A little brother]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

I thought every sunday is meant to celebrate the Lords death and resurrection? So why we need easter actually, except to remind people that go to church once a year that they should go to church?

The days that once a year hypocrites go to church sounds like a great time for real Christians to avoid.

Why not carry this one step further...

I thought every day is meant to celebrate the Lords death and resurrection? So why we need Sunday actually, except to remind people that go to church once a week that they should go to church?

The days that once a week hypocrites go to church sounds like a great time for real Christians to avoid.

You have missed the point here. If you have paid attention to the recent Winter training on Leviticus, you should have noticed that on top of daily regular burnt offerings, there are also special days (sabbath, beginning of month, feasts, ...) for additional burnt offerings.

If we can celebrate the Lord's resurrection on the "Day of the Sun", why can't we celebrate Jesus' birth on Christmas? Should our remembrance of the Lord be put aside to make way for pagan practices?

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by A little brother

Why not carry this one step further...

I thought every day is meant to celebrate the Lords death and resurrection? So why we need Sunday actually, except to remind people that go to church once a week that they should go to church?

The days that once a week hypocrites go to church sounds like a great time for real Christians to avoid.

You have missed the point here. If you have paid attention to the recent Winter training on Leviticus, you should have noticed that on top of daily regular burnt offerings, there are also special days (sabbath, beginning of month, feasts, ...) for additional burnt offerings.

If we can celebrate the Lord's resurrection on the "Day of the Sun", why can't we celebrate Jesus' birth on Christmas? Should our remembrance of the Lord be put aside to make way for pagan practices?

I disagree that every day is to celebrate the resurrection... The early church met on the first day of the week..the Lord's day. Weekly meetings are from the scripture. So you try to sound smart but your reasoning is foolish.

Most Christians defend easter and Christmas as being some kind of special day and celebrate without the pagan stuff. But consider that the choice of date itself is pagan and no Christians seem to bother to celebrate on the actual dates of Christs death and birth.

How would a wife or husband feel if we celebrated their birthday on the date of another woman or man? "Sorry honey...i won't celebrate your birthday on your actual birthday but on my ex girlfriends birthday because i dont want to give that up".
Paganism is like the ex girlfriend that the wife is reminded of every birthday that her husband doesnt want to forget.

If we celebrate Christian things on pagan days should we also celebrate easter and christmas on holy days of other religions? Suppose a muslim family in Iraq is converted..so now we celebrate Jesus birth on the day of Eid? If the europeans were muslim and not pagan then youd be celebrating Jesuss birth on a muslim holy day now wouldnt you?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

I disagree that every day is to celebrate the resurrection... The early church met on the first day of the week..the Lord's day. Weekly meetings are from the scripture. So you try to sound smart but your reasoning is foolish.

Most Christians defend easter and Christmas as being some kind of special day and celebrate without the pagan stuff. But consider that the choice of date itself is pagan and no Christians seem to bother to celebrate on the actual dates of Christs death and birth.

How would a wife or husband feel if we celebrated their birthday on the date of another woman or man? "Sorry honey...i won't celebrate your birthday on your actual birthday but on my ex girlfriends birthday because i dont want to give that up".
Paganism is like the ex girlfriend that the wife is reminded of every birthday that her husband doesnt want to forget.

If we celebrate Christian things on pagan days should we also celebrate easter and christmas on holy days of other religions? Suppose a muslim family in Iraq is converted..so now we celebrate Jesus birth on the day of Eid? If the europeans were muslim and not pagan then youd be celebrating Jesuss birth on a muslim holy day now wouldnt you?

You were right about "foolish reasoning."

[Evangelical]

Dec 25 was chosen as the day to celebrate Christs birth because it happens to be the day pagans celebrated the birthday of the Sun. Now suppose that it was not european but middle eastern paganism that Christianity "replaced". Then the date of Christmas would be 20 November which is Mohammeds birthday.

With Easter an interesting fact is that unlike Christmas the date changes each year. This is because the date coincides with the phases of the moon which comes from paganism.

Little children are taught that Easter Sunday is when Christ died but the date changes each year because of the moon. Instead of fixing a date which can be deduced from scripture as sometime in April the early Christians decided to go with pagan moon cycles.

[kumbaya]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

I thought every sunday is meant to celebrate the Lords death and resurrection? So why we need easter actually, except to remind people that go to church once a year that they should go to church?

The days that once a year hypocrites go to church sounds like a great time for real Christians to avoid.

The argument wasn’t that you shouldn’t celebrate Christs birth/resurrection every Sunday- or everyday for that matter. The problem is how WL “banned” these holidays by creating such a shameful stigma around them.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by OGOP

Obviously Lee was right on some of his Biblical interpretations, and wrong on so many other others. That being said... Lee's biggest injustice to his followers, in my opinion, is his denial of Christmas and Easter. These holidays are beautiful and are Christianity at their best. Celebrating the Lord's birth. Remembering his suffering and celebrating his resurrection.

Truly sad and depressing to think of all the misled Christians in the Lords Recovery who don't get to partake in these beautiful times of the year.

I loved it. I was free from all the commercialism surrounding those holidays. Not to mention Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.

[JJ]

Originally Posted by OGOP

Obviously Lee was right on some of his Biblical interpretations, and wrong on so many other others. That being said... Lee's biggest injustice to his followers, in my opinion, is his denial of Christmas and Easter. These holidays are beautiful and are Christianity at their best. Celebrating the Lord's birth. Remembering his suffering and celebrating his resurrection.

Truly sad and depressing to think of all the misled Christians in the Lords Recovery who don't get to partake in these beautiful times of the year.

WL: "Another example is Christmas. Christmas is a blasphemy to Christ, and no Christian with a pure conscience should have anything to do with it. As the book, The Two Babylons, proves, Christmas originated from European paganism. Centuries before the Christian era, on December 25 the European pagans celebrated the birthday of the sun. When Constantine embraced Christianity, he encouraged the Roman citizens to become Christians, and he even rewarded many thousands for being baptized. Thousands who knew nothing of Christ were baptized and came into Christendom, bringing their pagan customs with them. Later, the name of Christ was attached to the birth of the sun god celebrated on December 25. In principle, the celebration of Easter is the same. Although some Christians in Orange County condemn us as heretical, they themselves still practice the pagan festival of Christmas. To be sure, during the three and a half years of the great tribulation all Christians will abandon such things as Christmas, Easter, the worship of Mary, and all paganism. ...I strongly believe that the Lord is using His recovery to produce the living firstfruit. This is the first function of the Lord’s recovery. After the rapture of the firstfruit, the local churches will be used by the Lord to help all the remaining Christians. This will be the second function of the recovery. During the great tribulation, Christians will have a proper place to which they can go. Christmas, Easter, and all the traditional things of Christianity will be discarded."

I was surprised when I read Eusebius’ church history (written in the 4th Century) that he reported Christians celebrating Easter over 100 years before Constantine who arose to power during his day). His accounts of Easter celebrations record that Christians realized and appreciated what a big deal it is that Jesus not only died for us, but also rose from the dead to bring us out of the grave with Him.

I understand the points on both sides of this argument, but dividing over holidays misses the point of it all... Jesus!

Is Christ divided?

Let’s celebrate the resurrected Christ, our Lord tomorrow whether we agree with Easter or not. He lives, so we are alive in Him!

Praise him. He is victor over death and the grave!