What Exactly Does a Believer Follow?

Steel · 02-15-2018, 12:14 PM

I'm starting this thread in the hope that it helps us as a community come to better understand the matter of how we, as believers in Christ Jesus, follow something.

All too often I read on threads (and have even been accused myself) of a person or persons "...following Witness Lee..." (meaning, following a man), or "...following the brothers...", or "...following LSM...", and so on. But what exactly is the content... The reality of our "...following..."?... Are we chained to any of these persons/things, so that wherever they go we must follow? Surely not, right... As has been proven by many here... Anyone can just choose to not "...follow..." someone or something.

Now there may be hardship/suffering in the application of this choice... But this hardship/suffering doesn't stop the application of the choice to stop "...following..."... It only makes the application of it somewhat of a hardship or suffering. Google the search term "scripture we learn through suffering"... Over 10,000,000 seach results... The first of which, from Bible.org, is titled, "The Value of Suffering"... Which links to an article that begins with the paragraph... "There is no such thing as pointless pain in the life of the child of God. How this has encouraged and strengthened me in the valleys of suffering and pain! In this essay I'll be discussing the value of suffering, an unhappy non-negotiable of life in a fallen world."

Here's one of Paul's speakings on the matter... Acts 14:22... "Establishing the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith and saying that through many tribulations we must enter into the kingdom of God." . . . And there are many, many more scripture verses that speak on the matter of hardship/suffering being used by the Lord to bring us deeper into Him as our reality.

So, again... Although we are not chained to anyone or anything, and can therefore choose to not follow either at any time we wish... There can be a hardship/suffering involved in doing so... But this hardship/suffering, if scripture is to be believed, will work out for our own benefit... And something that works out for our benefit should be considered a good thing.

Now, if we can choose to not "...follow..." someone or something, then this tells us that to "...follow..." someone or something is also a choice we make... And this being the case... The reality of "...following..." someone or something is really a matter of individual choice... Which according to scripture takes place in an individual way and in the individual heart of the person making the choice.

When, as born again believers, we stand before our Lord... We will be standing as individuals... Not a group. And we'll be standing as individuals because we alone are responsible for our choices... Which is what the Lord will be judging at that time. . . . Saints... The truth is... We as believers "...follow..." our own individual thoughts... Meaning... The person that someone says is "...following Witness Lee..." is not following Witness Lee, but only following their thoughts regarding Witness Lee. And the same goes for all other things we all "...follow...".

And this is why scripture tells us in Ephesians 4:23... "...be renewed in the spirit of your mind..." and Philippians 2:5... "...Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus,...".

I don't follow a person, or a ministry, or anything else... I follow my mind... And it is the same for all of us. And because I've come to know this, over the years I have become more and more focused on what I allow my mind to receive, consider, and digest. Which is the reality the following scripture verse speaks to...

1 Peter 1:13... "Therefore girding up the loins of your mind and being sober, set your hope perfectly on the grace being brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ."

See that... "...girding up the loins of your mind... and being sober,... set your hope perfectly on the grace being brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ." . . . There it is... The need... And the solution to the need... Let us gird the loins of our minds... Because it is the sober thing to do... And to be sober is to set our hope... Perfectly... On the grace being brought to us at the revelation of Jesus Christ. . . . Nothing else but setting our hope on the grace being brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ can gird up our minds.

And so that is what I try to always pursue in all my pursuing... The hope that I have in the grace being brought to me at the revelation of Jesus Christ. . . . And scripture tells us that grace that we can receive at the revelation of Jesus Christ can sometimes be found being expressed out of speaking donkeys, dry dead bones, former murders, unsaved Roman centurions, crazy looking men in dressed in camel skin, an old man building an ark... You get the picture.

A very dear older brother (been holding to WL's ministry since the late '60s) I know from my time in the local church in Miami once said to me... "Develop a taste for life, and in doing so, you will instinctively know when what you're eating isn't life." . . . Nothing about Witness Lee or his ministry, just that simply speaking . . . I've never forgotten those words... And today... If there is anything that I follow... It is what I believe tastes of life.

And this is what I try to encourage others to do as well.

Evangelical · 02-15-2018, 06:17 PM

There is a caveat to "following life". Life is the person Jesus Christ. A person who follows life follows Jesus. When we see the Lord in something or someone we know the life is there. Sometimes what we think is life may not be associated with the person of Jesus Christ. This is a counterfeit life. We may end up following our feelings rather than fact. The new age movement for example has a counterfeit life, but is not associated with the person of Christ.

HERn · 02-15-2018, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evangelical

There is a caveat to "following life". Life is the person Jesus Christ. A person who follows life follows Jesus. When we see the Lord in something or someone we know the life is there. Sometimes what we think is life may not be associated with the person of Jesus Christ. This is a counterfeit life. We may end up following our feelings rather than fact. The new age movement for example has a counterfeit life, but is not associated with the person of Christ.

Christ is life; but life is not Christ. Lucifer has given a shiny little ball called "life" to the recovery that he uses to distract the saints from Christ. The level of idolatry in the recovery can be measured by the degree that "life" is the focus rather than Christ. To be fair, I don't think idolatry is restricted to the recovery. For example in the past my current denomination was known for preaching "once saved always saved". To the degree that the saints in this denomination focused on the security of the believer rather than on the one who secures the salvation, Christ Himself, would be an indicator of idolatry.

A little brother · 02-15-2018, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evangelical

This is a counterfeit life. We may end up following our feelings rather than fact..

Amen to that.

Many of us think we are following Christ, yet:

When we speak of "love" as excuse to tolerate misdeeds in the church, the spirit is wrong.

When we say the "church is perfect in the eyes of God" and do not stand up against false teachings and sinful behaviors, the spirit is wrong.

When we count all problems in the church just as "human errors" and become indifferent, the spirit is wrong.

When we say we follow Christ and start to look down on others' truthful opinions and experiences as only from the "natural man" and even "lies", the spirit is wrong.

Very often, "...not following man ...following Christ..." becomes empty words and just another form of whitewashed graves.

Indiana · 02-15-2018, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A little brother

Amen to that.

Many of us think we are following Christ, yet:

When we speak of "love" as excuse to tolerate misdeeds in the church, the spirit is wrong.

When we say the "church is perfect in the eyes of God" and do not stand up against false teachings and sinful behaviors, the spirit is wrong.

When we count all problems in the church just as "human errors" and become indifferent, the spirit is wrong.

When we say we follow Christ and start to look down on others' truthful opinions and experiences as only from the "natural man" and even "lies", the spirit is wrong.

Very often, "...not following man ...following Christ..." becomes empty words and just another form of whitewashed graves.

Very good points. I DIDNT CHOOSE TO BE DISFELLOWSHIPPED in the churches. I was simply addressing the wake in the new way the churches were experiencing and got set aside. I chose to keep addressing the misdeeds, not ignore them, and I have been blessed with life and an enlarged heart for doing so.

Steel · 02-16-2018, 12:38 PM

I would love to be able to give all the comments in this thread a huge THUMBS UP like... As, for me... The speaking in the comments so far have absolutely expressed life... Divine life... The life that is our Lord Jesus Christ.

This, for me, is the content of the reality that builds the body of Christ... Speaking in and out of our experience of Christ... Whether it be, in our partial view (we see in part) positve or negative... For me, to live is Christ... And to die to self is gain.

It's taken twenty years for the Lord to get me to this point... And I have a long way to God... But thank You, Lord... For keeping me in You, and causing me to be one who is, to one degree or another, according to the supply of grace You have measured out to me... Walking in You more and more each day.

A little brother · 02-25-2018, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steel

... It's not a matter of "see no evil"... It is a matter of upon seeing evil, what are we to do... And on that... Scripture is very clear.

Brother Steel, I noticed your post in the Billy Graham thread mentioning about seeing evil in the church. I hope you don't mind my extending the discussion to this thread.

I am curious. From your viewpoint, and as followers of Christ, when we see evil in the church, what exactly are we to do according to the Scripture?

UntoHim · 03-04-2018, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steel on the Opening Post

I'm starting this thread in the hope that it helps us as a community come to better understand the matter of how we, as believers in Christ Jesus, follow something...
I don't follow a person, or a ministry, or anything else... I follow my mind... And it is the same for all of us. And because I've come to know this, over the years I have become more and more focused on what I allow my mind to receive, consider, and digest.

If possible, let's redirect back to the general theme of the opening post. There's been too much personal banter back and forth. Let's try our best to address the issue(s) at hand, and not the individual. If this is getting all too uninteresting, tedious and just plain ridiculous for me, who basically has no life outside this forum, then I know it has to be making the average viewer/lurker want to kick a hole in their computer screen, and delete this website address forever.

I have absolutely no doubt that Steel is being sincere when he says "I don't follow a person, or a ministry". Our friend Drake has stated something similar. The problem is, as I view it, is that the official, published position of the official leaders of the Local Church have plainly stated that LC members are, in fact, directed to follow a person and his ministry. Any plain and straight forward reading of The One Publication declaration leads any reasonable person to believe that this is what is expected, if not demanded from the producers of this declaration.

So, while there may be any number of views and understandings regarding "what exactly does a believer follow" among any number of current Local Church members, I'm not sure of the importance or even relevance to our discussions here. Unless of course some of the Blended Brothers would like to come and join us, and maybe clarify what they meant by many of the bold and ominous declarations in The One Publication.
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awareness · 03-09-2018, 07:51 AM

What Exactly Does a Believer Follow?

"I ain't lookin' for nothin' in anyone's eyes" - Bob Dylan

If you look to men you're gonna be disappointed.

02-15-2018, 12:14 PM	#1
Steel Moderated Member Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 222	What Exactly Does a Believer Follow? I'm starting this thread in the hope that it helps us as a community come to better understand the matter of how we, as believers in Christ Jesus, follow something. All too often I read on threads (and have even been accused myself) of a person or persons "...following Witness Lee..." (meaning, following a man), or "...following the brothers...", or "...following LSM...", and so on. But what exactly is the content... The reality of our "...following..."?... Are we chained to any of these persons/things, so that wherever they go we must follow? Surely not, right... As has been proven by many here... Anyone can just choose to not "...follow..." someone or something. Now there may be hardship/suffering in the application of this choice... But this hardship/suffering doesn't stop the application of the choice to stop "...following..."... It only makes the application of it somewhat of a hardship or suffering. Google the search term "scripture we learn through suffering"... Over 10,000,000 seach results... The first of which, from Bible.org, is titled, "The Value of Suffering"... Which links to an article that begins with the paragraph... "There is no such thing as pointless pain in the life of the child of God. How this has encouraged and strengthened me in the valleys of suffering and pain! In this essay I'll be discussing the value of suffering, an unhappy non-negotiable of life in a fallen world." Here's one of Paul's speakings on the matter... Acts 14:22... "Establishing the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith and saying that through many tribulations we must enter into the kingdom of God." . . . And there are many, many more scripture verses that speak on the matter of hardship/suffering being used by the Lord to bring us deeper into Him as our reality. So, again... Although we are not chained to anyone or anything, and can therefore choose to not follow either at any time we wish... There can be a hardship/suffering involved in doing so... But this hardship/suffering, if scripture is to be believed, will work out for our own benefit... And something that works out for our benefit should be considered a good thing. Now, if we can choose to not "...follow..." someone or something, then this tells us that to "...follow..." someone or something is also a choice we make... And this being the case... The reality of "...following..." someone or something is really a matter of individual choice... Which according to scripture takes place in an individual way and in the individual heart of the person making the choice. When, as born again believers, we stand before our Lord... We will be standing as individuals... Not a group. And we'll be standing as individuals because we alone are responsible for our choices... Which is what the Lord will be judging at that time. . . . Saints... The truth is... We as believers "...follow..." our own individual thoughts... Meaning... The person that someone says is "...following Witness Lee..." is not following Witness Lee, but only following their thoughts regarding Witness Lee. And the same goes for all other things we all "...follow...". And this is why scripture tells us in Ephesians 4:23... "...be renewed in the spirit of your mind..." and Philippians 2:5... "...Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus,...". I don't follow a person, or a ministry, or anything else... I follow my mind... And it is the same for all of us. And because I've come to know this, over the years I have become more and more focused on what I allow my mind to receive, consider, and digest. Which is the reality the following scripture verse speaks to... 1 Peter 1:13... "Therefore girding up the loins of your mind and being sober, set your hope perfectly on the grace being brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ." See that... "...girding up the loins of your mind... and being sober,... set your hope perfectly on the grace being brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ." . . . There it is... The need... And the solution to the need... Let us gird the loins of our minds... Because it is the sober thing to do... And to be sober is to set our hope... Perfectly... On the grace being brought to us at the revelation of Jesus Christ. . . . Nothing else but setting our hope on the grace being brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ can gird up our minds. And so that is what I try to always pursue in all my pursuing... The hope that I have in the grace being brought to me at the revelation of Jesus Christ. . . . And scripture tells us that grace that we can receive at the revelation of Jesus Christ can sometimes be found being expressed out of speaking donkeys, dry dead bones, former murders, unsaved Roman centurions, crazy looking men in dressed in camel skin, an old man building an ark... You get the picture. A very dear older brother (been holding to WL's ministry since the late '60s) I know from my time in the local church in Miami once said to me... "Develop a taste for life, and in doing so, you will instinctively know when what you're eating isn't life." . . . Nothing about Witness Lee or his ministry, just that simply speaking . . . I've never forgotten those words... And today... If there is anything that I follow... It is what I believe tastes of life. And this is what I try to encourage others to do as well.

02-15-2018, 06:17 PM	#2
Evangelical Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 3,965	Re: What Exactly Does a Believer Follow? There is a caveat to "following life". Life is the person Jesus Christ. A person who follows life follows Jesus. When we see the Lord in something or someone we know the life is there. Sometimes what we think is life may not be associated with the person of Jesus Christ. This is a counterfeit life. We may end up following our feelings rather than fact. The new age movement for example has a counterfeit life, but is not associated with the person of Christ.

02-16-2018, 12:38 PM	#6
Steel Moderated Member Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 222	Re: What Exactly Does a Believer Follow? I would love to be able to give all the comments in this thread a huge THUMBS UP like... As, for me... The speaking in the comments so far have absolutely expressed life... Divine life... The life that is our Lord Jesus Christ. This, for me, is the content of the reality that builds the body of Christ... Speaking in and out of our experience of Christ... Whether it be, in our partial view (we see in part) positve or negative... For me, to live is Christ... And to die to self is gain. It's taken twenty years for the Lord to get me to this point... And I have a long way to God... But thank You, Lord... For keeping me in You, and causing me to be one who is, to one degree or another, according to the supply of grace You have measured out to me... Walking in You more and more each day.

03-09-2018, 07:51 AM	#9
awareness Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 8,064	Re: What Exactly Does a Believer Follow? What Exactly Does a Believer Follow? "I ain't lookin' for nothin' in anyone's eyes" - Bob Dylan If you look to men you're gonna be disappointed. __________________ Cults: My brain will always be there for you. Thinking. So you don't have to. There's a serpent in every paradise.