New Book by Henry Hon

[Koinonia]

Henry Hon, former LC elder in Berkeley, CA (and brother of LC coworker Paul Hon), has published a book: ONE: Unfolding God's Eternal Purpose from House to House.

In this interview with Frank Viola, Hon describes his experience leaving the LC:

While I was actively enjoying the body life from house to house, I was still involved in an organized church group. This church was founded on the basis of practicing the oneness of the body; therefore, I was attracted because they lifted up Christ and were receiving all believers as the one body. But their teaching also included accusation and condemnation of institutional churches. As this church evolved, their teaching of unity in the body became one of having a unique leadership structure, an exclusive ministry led by specific teachers, and a singular way to practice the oneness. My assembling from house to house in the complete freedom of the Spirit became conflicting with their way to practice oneness. Due to my unwillingness to submit to their direction, I was told that I was no longer part of building up the body. They directed and influenced believers that we were fellowshipping with to stop coming to our home gatherings. This experience caused me to reexamine the Scripture to improve my understanding of the oneness of the body, including the practices and manifestation of this oneness.

Due to confusion caused by the opposition from the leadership of this church, the home gatherings that I initiated were greatly disrupted. Our family with just a few other believers started again in a small home gathering. We started to grow again with new and young believers, and I started to proactively go out to greet, to embrace in fellowship, other believers and groups that are not in our small circle of relatedness. As I was enjoying expanding my circle of fellowship, I received fresh insight to Romans 16 with strong confirmation. In that chapter, believers were commanded to go out to greet other disparate believers to expand the fellowship in order to manifest the oneness of the body.

Hon also has a website for his ministry: ONE Body Life: Reset to ONE; Revival Next!

[Freedom]

Henry Hon: Most Christians are concerned mainly with what God can do for them, their own interest. As long as they are saved to go to heaven and God blesses them, then they are quite satisfied. God’s eternal purpose is concerning what God is after, His interest, and what is on His heart. Therefore, most Christians are not interested in such a topic if they don’t think it can affect them or benefit them directly.

On the other hand, there is a longing within every Christian, a desire to know what their purpose is. They want to know what God has in store for them. Therefore, “The Purpose Driven Life” by Rick Warren sold over 30 million copies. In his book, Mr. Warren did not unveil the highest revelations concerning God’s eternal purpose as books such as “From Eternity to Here” by Frank Viola. So, the reader of the Purpose Driven Life didn’t really receive the real understanding concerning God’s eternal purpose other than what most have already understood, but presented in a more concise manner. There was not the kind of fresh and in-depth revelation as in Mr. Viola’s book.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/frankviola/eternalpurpose/

Certain talk, such as what is seen in the above quote makes me cringe. By that I mean generalizations such as "most Christians are mainly concerned with what God can do for them." Or where it is stated that Rick Warren’s book doesn't "unveil the highest revelation" but Frank Violas books do. That right there is enough to keep me from reading Mr. Hon's book.

I'm not out to criticize, but it seems that with some who have left or been purged from the LC, there is a notion that all is really needed is a reboot of the same old themes. In the links provided, I see certain language present such as "body life", "oneness", etc. It leaves me wonder whether the LC connotation of those words/phrases is intended or not.

Also, I’m not against the house church movement or what they’re seeking to accomplish, however, I tend to question the stated importance home gatherings of vs. what is found in mainstream Christianity. Where I’m from, the LC leaders were nothing short of obsessed with WL’s “new way” ministry, specifically his talk about the home gatherings. From my own experience in that kind of setting, the presentation of home gatherings as being some sort of secret formula to accomplishing God’s goal, always seemed too good to be true (and it was).

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Freedom

I'm not out to criticize, but it seems that with some who have left or been purged from the LC, there is a notion that all is really needed is a reboot of the same old themes. In the links provided, I see certain language present such as "body life", "oneness", etc. It leaves me wonder whether the LC connotation of those words/phrases is intended or not.

Why is it when Christians become so obsessed with oneness, they can no longer fellowship with those they are with, and must separate ("divide?") themselves off to "fulfill God's eternal purpose" for the "one" body of Christ? Nee and the Exclusives had to part ways for the oneness. Lee left all of Christianity for the oneness. The Blendeds dumped Brazil Dong and Midwest Chu for the oneness. And here Henry Hon must leave his Blended brothers for the oneness. It's always for the oneness. And God's eternal purpose.

In his interview with Viola, Henry Hon said this of his LC experience ...

Additionally, though I had received the vision of the oneness of believers, I was frustrated in its actual practice: it wasn’t happening. While church groups that grew out of the Jesus Movement were typically contrary to the traditions and divisiveness of mainline denominations, they also competed amongst themselves. Being in such a group, we expected Christians to leave their churches and groups to join us if they, too, saw the vision of God’s purpose. Needless to say, that didn’t work well; rather, it produced even more divisions.

Obviously Hon tries to hide his association with Lee and the Blendeds, but here we see it described ...

While I was actively enjoying the body life from house to house, I was still involved in an organized church group. This church was founded on the basis of practicing the oneness of the body; therefore, I was attracted because they lifted up Christ and were receiving all believers as the one body. But their teaching also included accusation and condemnation of institutional churches. As this church evolved, their teaching of unity in the body became one of having a unique leadership structure, an exclusive ministry led by specific teachers, and a singular way to practice the oneness. My assembling from house to house in the complete freedom of the Spirit became conflicting with their way to practice oneness. Due to my unwillingness to submit to their direction, I was told that I was no longer part of building up the body. They directed and influenced believers that we were fellowshipping with to stop coming to our home gatherings. This experience caused me to reexamine the Scripture to improve my understanding of the oneness of the body, including the practices and manifestation of this oneness.

Sounds to me like our favorite Blendeds at LSM went and quarantined brother Hon.

.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Why is it when Christians become so obsessed with oneness, they can no longer fellowship with those they are with, and must separate ("divide?") themselves off to "fulfill God's eternal purpose" for the "one" body of Christ? .

Good point Ohio. I don't know Hon in the least. Reading his website I agree he's seems to be riding on the "God's Eternal Purpose," and "oneness" schtick. But he doesn't seem to be capitalizing on his ministry on his website. Maybe he's taking a loss leader while ramping up, but his book sells for less than $4.00. And it's not covered up with marketing like Hank Hanegraaff's site.

[Evangelical]

Why isn't this the case of a man thinking he can do the same sort of thing Lee did but do it better himself? why is it not an example of a work within a work? reinventing the wheel?

[Koinonia]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Why isn't this the case of a man thinking he can do the same sort of thing Lee did but do it better himself? why is it not an example of a work within a work? reinventing the wheel?

Sorry, but--who cares?

[Koinonia]

Originally Posted by Freedom

Certain talk, such as what is seen in the above quote makes me cringe. By that I mean generalizations such as "most Christians are mainly concerned with what God can do for them." Or where it is stated that Rick Warren’s book doesn't "unveil the highest revelation" but Frank Violas books do. That right there is enough to keep me from reading Mr. Hon's book.

I'm not out to criticize, but it seems that with some who have left or been purged from the LC, there is a notion that all is really needed is a reboot of the same old themes. In the links provided, I see certain language present such as "body life", "oneness", etc. It leaves me wonder whether the LC connotation of those words/phrases is intended or not.

Also, I’m not against the house church movement or what they’re seeking to accomplish, however, I tend to question the stated importance home gatherings of vs. what is found in mainstream Christianity. Where I’m from, the LC leaders were nothing short of obsessed with WL’s “new way” ministry, specifically his talk about the home gatherings. From my own experience in that kind of setting, the presentation of home gatherings as being some sort of secret formula to accomplishing God’s goal, always seemed too good to be true (and it was).

I more or less agree with you and had the same impression. But we should also give him some credit. Think of how disruptive it must have been for him--a prominent elder in a prominent LC--to break ties and start to feel his own way. He's on the journey.

I can only imagine how he is being characterized and slandered now. Ambitious, charismatic, always doing his own thing, a work within the work, attracting people to follow after himself, nothing new, everything from the ministry etc., etc.

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by Koinonia

I more or less agree with you and had the same impression. But we should also give him some credit. Think of how disruptive it must have been for him--a prominent elder in a prominent LC--to break ties and start to feel his own way. He's on the journey.

I can only imagine how he is being characterized and slandered now. Ambitious, charismatic, always doing his own thing, a work within the work, attracting people to follow after himself, nothing new, everything from the ministry etc., etc.

I don't know anything about him besides what I read in this thread. Was he well-known in the LC outside of where he is from?

The thing that I find interesting about all of this is that a practice of home meetings is something Lee taught and emphasized. So for someone to get 'quarantined' over organizing relatively small gatherings in homes, it makes the inevitable LC accusation of him being 'ambitious' all the more absurd.

[Koinonia]

Originally Posted by Freedom

I don't know anything about him besides what I read in this thread. Was he well-known in the LC outside of where he is from?

The thing that I find interesting about all of this is that a practice of home meetings is something Lee taught and emphasized. So for someone to get 'quarantined' over organizing relatively small gatherings in homes, it makes the inevitable LC accusation of him being 'ambitious' all the more absurd.

Berkeley is a fairly large LC with a well-known campus work. Henry Hon was the "lead elder" there for many years. Very involved in the student work, home meetings, perfecting trainings, etc.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Koinonia

I more or less agree with you and had the same impression. But we should also give him some credit. Think of how disruptive it must have been for him--a prominent elder in a prominent LC--to break ties and start to feel his own way. He's on the journey.

I can only imagine how he is being characterized and slandered now. Ambitious, charismatic, always doing his own thing, a work within the work, attracting people to follow after himself, nothing new, everything from the ministry etc., etc.

One more descriptive word that would be characterized of such brothers is individualistic. Of course I tend to see it more as an unwillingness to sacrifice principles for the group.
I agree Koinonia, he is on a journey. As we have heard many times...."the vision". Appears there was a conflict in vision that caused one door to close and another to open.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Koinonia

I more or less agree with you and had the same impression. But we should also give him some credit. Think of how disruptive it must have been for him--a prominent elder in a prominent LC--to break ties and start to feel his own way. He's on the journey.

I can only imagine how he is being characterized and slandered now. Ambitious, charismatic, always doing his own thing, a work within the work, attracting people to follow after himself, nothing new, everything from the ministry etc., etc.

Originally Posted by Terry

One more descriptive word that would be characterized of such brothers is individualistic. Of course I tend to see it more as an unwillingness to sacrifice principles for the group.

Notice how none of these demeaning characteristics of ministers, apparently so treacherous in the LC's, is ever critiqued in the Bible. Sounds a whole lot like all the Apostles! I bet the Judaizers perfected all of these accusations and many more with Apostle Paul.

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by Terry

One more descriptive word that would be characterized of such brothers is individualistic. Of course I tend to see it more as an unwillingness to sacrifice principles for the group.
I agree Koinonia, he is on a journey. As we have heard many times...."the vision". Appears there was a conflict in vision that caused one door to close and another to open.

One reason the situation with Mr. Hon caught my attention is because WL made a big deal about trying to get people to start and organize home gatherings. In certain parts of WL's ministry, it seems that he actually encouraged people to take initiative (in regards to getting an increase), even individual initiative if others weren't doing anything. Of course, WL contradicted himself on this. However, it seems that when Hon was in the LC, he must have taken to heart something that WL taught about home meetings. As I mentioned previously, in the area that I'm from, the leaders were really big on WL's "new way." The interesting part of it all is all the too good to be true promises that WL made. He spoke of exponential increase, “the final revival,” etc, etc.

As would be expected, the results of such things were never as promised, and this was always my observation in the area I’m from. However, in the case with Hon, you have someone who has their own little spin on what WL taught and because it happened to be successful, headquarters got jealous and came in to take over. It's ironic, because in order to practice what WL taught and avoid any kind of interference, it seems like it is dependent on having something mediocre, something that doesn't attract much attention. If a work ends up being successful, then everyone can rest assured that it’s only a matter of time before headquarters comes in to take over.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Freedom

One reason the situation with Mr. Hon caught my attention is because WL made a big deal about trying to get people to start and organize home gatherings. In certain parts of WL's ministry, it seems that he actually encouraged people to take initiative (in regards to getting an increase), even individual initiative if others weren't doing anything. Of course, WL contradicted himself on this. However, it seems that when Hon was in the LC, he must have taken to heart something that WL taught about home meetings. As I mentioned previously, in the area that I'm from, the leaders were really big on WL's "new way." The interesting part of it all is all the too good to be true promises that WL made. He spoke of exponential increase, “the final revival,” etc, etc.

As would be expected, the results of such things were never as promised, and this was always my observation in the area I’m from. However, in the case with Hon, you have someone who has their own little spin on what WL taught and because it happened to be successful, headquarters got jealous and came in to take over. It's ironic, because in order to practice what WL taught and avoid any kind of interference, it seems like it is dependent on having something mediocre, something that doesn't attract much attention. If a work ends up being successful, then everyone can rest assured that it’s only a matter of time before headquarters comes in to take over.

Bro Freedom, did you ever consider the possibility that Witness Lee was delusional?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Freedom

If a work ends up being successful, then everyone can rest assured that it’s only a matter of time before headquarters comes in to take over.

Correct. That's what happened to Austin, Tx.

Not only so, but the leader must also get all the credit, all the glory, for the successes. In this regard, Cleveland was the same as Anaheim. The success of any subordinate is always viewed with suspicion. A fruitful subordinate is always viewed as a potential rival. This is systemic to the program.

Hence, the ultimate irony. Lee was "successful" in the US until he took over. Ask anyone from Elden Hall why the Lord blessed them, and they will tell you that Lee was not responsible for their blessing. Yet hagiography demanded it. So, by the time Lee did take over the Recovery, every one of his numerous "winds and waves of teaching" was a failure, despite the manufactured results.

Hence, a twofold response to failure was always mandated. First, blame all failures on subordinates. Second, steal all the glory from those who happened to bear fruit.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Freedom

One reason the situation with Mr. Hon caught my attention is because WL made a big deal about trying to get people to start and organize home gatherings. In certain parts of WL's ministry, it seems that he actually encouraged people to take initiative (in regards to getting an increase), even individual initiative if others weren't doing anything. Of course, WL contradicted himself on this. However, it seems that when Hon was in the LC, he must have taken to heart something that WL taught about home meetings.

Initiative is the key word. Indicates sidestepping fellowship protocol and taking individual decision making. Brothers and sisters alike are paralyzed from not making individual decisions when there's fellowship protocol that's expected.
I didn't have a problem with brother Hon's burden on home meetings. My question is what's the purpose of the home meeting? For many non-LC churches, home meetings is the best format for participation that wouldn't be possible on a Sunday morning service.
In Local Church home meetings the safe choice is to make the home meeting a miniature prophesying meeting. Just take turns reading sentences from HWFMR. It's pretentious. There's no real risk of having to bear one's soul.
For one to take the initiative and suggest, "let's set aside the ministry and present our individual burdens and trials before the group to pray over", how do you think that would go over? If it didn't come from elders, such a suggestion would be marginalized as being individualistic. Or as trying to seek a following.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Freedom

In the links provided, I see certain language present such as "body life", "oneness", etc. It leaves me wonder whether the LC connotation of those words/phrases is intended or not.

Speaking strictly for myself and perhaps others have this feeling too, having been jaded in the LC in the inferences of certain phrases:

• Building up of the Body
• Oneness
• speaking the same thing

I'm sure there are more, but with any ordinary believer we might know from relations, friends, or work, the phrases in itself are harmless and quite positive. The LC inference is it could only be found through their brand of fellowship.
In my opinion if there is truly a care for oneness among believers, we don't care where they meet but themselves as a member of the Body as seen in 1 Corinthians 12.
How many times has fellowship been extinguished because of where a person meets or doesn't meet?

[Evangelical]

As highlighted by Freedom and others, it seems Mr Hon still holds onto the vision he has received from the Recovery about God not just wanting to save people but having a higher purpose. He distinguishes between what Lee calls the low gospel which is about what God can do for man, and the high gospel about what God wants man to do for Him.

Also, him pointing out the shortcoming of Rick Warren's book is an observation I have also made.

Hon also mentions God's consummate goal which is language that is very Lee-like. However where Lee would say God's goal is to head up all things in Christ, which is biblical,
Hon says it is Oneness.


Sentences by Hon such as this one:

"People the world over, though diverse, have the same yearning: to live in peace and come together as one. "

sound a little like the Utopian dream of the New Age movement - world peace and oneness.

The bible however makes clear that God's goal is to head up all things in Christ, the Kingdom of God, the New Jerusalem. Before that happens there won't be oneness but warfare and division.

God's consummate goal can be found in the last book of the bible, Revelation, and it is not the Oneness that Hon claims although Oneness will be there.

What distinguishes Hon's group from a typical house church movement is the holding into Recovery-like ideas such as oneness, God's consummate goal and the deficiencies in Christiandom.

So I think describing his group as a "local church sect" is an okay description. The word sect means a cut, so it seems to be a cut away of the local church.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

As highlighted by Freedom and others, it seems Mr Hon still holds onto the vision he has received from the Recovery about God not just wanting to save people but having a higher purpose. He distinguishes between the low gospel which is about what God can do for man, and the high gospel about what God wants man to do for Him.

Every church I have ever attended spoke, "about God not just wanting to save people but having a higher purpose." Are you serious, EvanG?

And, btw, the so-called "high calling purpose" in the Recovery has nothing to do with God's needs, but has everything to do with LSM's needs.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Every church I have ever attended spoke, "about God not just wanting to save people but having a higher purpose." Are you serious, EvanG?

And, btw, the so-called "high calling purpose" in the Recovery has nothing to do with God's needs, but has everything to do with LSM's needs.

You got that from Rick Warren I suppose. Was this higher purpose oneness like the Recovery and Hon believes? I don't think many churches know that God's purpose is oneness. They typically think God's purpose is some sort of ministry or activity.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

You got that from Rick Warren I suppose. Was this higher purpose oneness like the Recovery and Hon believes? I don't think many churches know that God's purpose is oneness. They typically think God's purpose is some sort of ministry or activity.

Is God's purpose really oneness?

Christians have been obsessing over "oneness" for two millennia, and it has never turned out well for us. The Catholic "oneness" church obsessed over oneness, and look where it led them. Same with the Exclusive Brethren and the so-called Recovery. Why is it every time church leaders obsess over oneness, their followers end up obsessing over their leader? Think Popes, Oracles, and MOTAs.

This is why I often say, based on church history, that distorted oneness has done more damage to the church of God than any other heresy, and that's exactly what obsessing over distorted oneness is, a horrible heresy in the church. The Catholics held endless inquisitions (and tortures) over perceived violations of their distorted oneness, and the Exclusives and Lee/Blendeds have held endless quarantines (and lawsuits) over perceived violations of their own distorted oneness.

The Lord Jesus commanded us to love God and to love our neighbors. In this regard, love is to be much more desired than oneness. It's also much more difficult to fake love than oneness, since oneness can be so easily disguised as uniformity, manufactured by an unholy allegiance to an earthly headquarters.

[awareness]

Did Hon and his little sect declare the ground somewhere?

Originally Posted by Evangelical

As highlighted by Freedom and others, it seems Mr Hon still holds onto the vision he has received from the Recovery about God not just wanting to save people but having a higher purpose. He distinguishes between what Lee calls the low gospel which is about what God can do for man, and the high gospel about what God wants man to do for Him.

Also, him pointing out the shortcoming of Rick Warren's book is an observation I have also made.

Hon also mentions God's consummate goal which is language that is very Lee-like. However where Lee would say God's goal is to head up all things in Christ, which is biblical,
Hon says it is Oneness.


Sentences by Hon such as this one:

"People the world over, though diverse, have the same yearning: to live in peace and come together as one. "

sound a little like the Utopian dream of the New Age movement - world peace and oneness.

The bible however makes clear that God's goal is to head up all things in Christ, the Kingdom of God, the New Jerusalem. Before that happens there won't be oneness but warfare and division.

God's consummate goal can be found in the last book of the bible, Revelation, and it is not the Oneness that Hon claims although Oneness will be there.

What distinguishes Hon's group from a typical house church movement is the holding into Recovery-like ideas such as oneness, God's consummate goal and the deficiencies in Christiandom.

So I think describing his group as a "local church sect" is an okay description. The word sect means a cut, so it seems to be a cut away of the local church.

[countmeworthy]

Why won't people just let the Holy Spirit be our TEACHER AND LEAD??

Jesus told us He would send Him to us.
“But the Helper, (the Comforter) the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.

I also know the LORD GOD also raises people to teach..
And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ;

(I think Ephesians 4:10-12 gave the enemy the license to entice religious people with these offices. So now we have "apostle so and so" 'bishop so and so", "Evangelist so and so" "Pastor so and so"... and of course the MOTA.)

and yet Hebrews 8:11 says
they shall not teach everyone his fellow citizen, And everyone his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ For all will know Me, From the least to the greatest of them.

Originally Posted by awareness

Did Hon and his little sect declare the ground somewhere?

[Koinonia]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

As highlighted by Freedom and others, it seems Mr Hon still holds onto the vision he has received from the Recovery about God not just wanting to save people but having a higher purpose. He distinguishes between what Lee calls the low gospel which is about what God can do for man, and the high gospel about what God wants man to do for Him.

Also, him pointing out the shortcoming of Rick Warren's book is an observation I have also made.

Hon also mentions God's consummate goal which is language that is very Lee-like. However where Lee would say God's goal is to head up all things in Christ, which is biblical,
Hon says it is Oneness.


Sentences by Hon such as this one:

"People the world over, though diverse, have the same yearning: to live in peace and come together as one. "

sound a little like the Utopian dream of the New Age movement - world peace and oneness.

The bible however makes clear that God's goal is to head up all things in Christ, the Kingdom of God, the New Jerusalem. Before that happens there won't be oneness but warfare and division.

God's consummate goal can be found in the last book of the bible, Revelation, and it is not the Oneness that Hon claims although Oneness will be there.

What distinguishes Hon's group from a typical house church movement is the holding into Recovery-like ideas such as oneness, God's consummate goal and the deficiencies in Christiandom.

So I think describing his group as a "local church sect" is an okay description. The word sect means a cut, so it seems to be a cut away of the local church.

Evangelical, spiritual truths--if they are truths--are not owned by Witness Lee or "the Recovery." That you seem to think so would demonstrate how narrow you are.

The basis of the Christian life is that if we desire to be His disciples that we must pick up our cross and follow Him. Our wonderful Christ was incarcerated and lived in union with the Father. His entire human mingled life He and the Father, the Father and Him lived in this man Jesus. The Lord Jesus, who is the very Word of God, through Whom all things exists and by Him all things exists by the Word of His power. Everything that exists exists because of Him and by Him and anything that does not exist does not exists because He did not bring that anything into being. This One while He was on the Earth did not come to do His own will but that of the Father. He said the things that I do I do because the Father has given me to do these things. This same one said to His disciples apart from Me you can do nothing. The Christian life is not about you doing according to what you (we) feel is right, righteous or pure and holy but to allow for Christ to do His work through us, by His own strength and power. When we attempt to something that is a part from Him and when not done by Him then we are not doing the will of the Father.

To meet how we want to meet, even in the homes or house to house, if the Lord is not the issuer of these practices then we become like the one who seeks the scriptures because think that in them have life, when it these that are written concerning Him and we don’t come to Him and allow His Word to live through us then we are not following Him but maybe trying to lead Him. Taking the things that you want from the abundant store and leaving the things you don’t want, and adjusting them to your liking, oh woest to those who would trample on the Son of Man and on His work. Do you really think God would choose one man and not start with him and then later build with him like he is some kind of beacon of light.

Even our Brother WL and WN were slaves of the Lord. They did not consider themselves as anything but just like Paul the Apostle considered themselves as a poured drink offering. WN himself died in prison as a slave of the Lord. Do you think this Brother Henry Hon considers himself as a drink offering? Does his work express the work that Christ is doing to build His Body? By their fruit you will know them. Saints consider your ways, let us not be foolish but know what the will of Lord is. Everything else is just wood, hay, stubble; fuel to be burnt away. The first thing to judge a person’s character is what they do. One who desires to be first must be last. I am sorrowful to see what has happened to our dear Brother Henry Hon. I knew him well and what I see is not an expression of Christ but of another. Remember Christ will build His Church not anyone else. Today as the Body of Christ We, you and I, I and you are the Body, but only when we are abiding in Him.

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Even our Brother WL and WN were slaves of the Lord. They did not consider themselves as anything but just like Paul the Apostle considered themselves as a poured drink offering.

I know this was a minor point of your post but Witness Lee absolutely did consider himself something. He considered himself to be the unique minister of the age, capping off a long line of unique, singular individuals specially chosen by God in each age through whom God was releasing a particular "vision".

He taught that if anyone did not serve under him, their service was not accepted by God. Period.

Witness Lee considered himself to be the most unique person on earth once Watchman Nee passed.......THE one out of 7 billion on the planet through whom God was speaking.

Read "The Vision of the Age", by Witness Lee.

[UntoHim]

Apparently Henry Hon no longer thinks that Witness Lee was/is the unique minister of the age. This is probably why this person wrote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I am sorrowful to see what has happened to our dear Brother Henry Hon. I knew him well and what I see is not an expression of Christ but of another. Remember Christ will build His Church not anyone else. Today as the Body of Christ We, you and I, I and you are the Body, but only when we are abiding in Him.

To this fellow "abiding in Him" equals following the person and work of a man who died about 23 years ago. Very sad. May God have mercy.
-

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Apparently Henry Hon no longer thinks that Witness Lee was/is the unique minister of the age. This is probably why this person wrote:
To this fellow "abiding in Him" equals following the person and work of a man who died about 23 years ago. Very sad. May God have mercy.
-

Didn't brother Hon get expelled from their system for putting the Lord and His word first?

[Sons to Glory!]

As I said in an earlier post back in 2018, I knew of Henry when I was meeting with the LC in Berkeley from 1974 to 76. Henry was always on fire for Christ, as I remember him.

This past week, an ex-LC elder invited Henry and wife Silvia to come visit here in Scottsdale. I had lunch with them and three other couples. I found Henry and his wife to be humble and genuine. We caught each other up on some historical things, and Henry shared regarding his vision of the ekklesia, which is much about Christians fellowshipping house to house. As earlier posts indicated, it was the success of these home gatherings, that got the Hons the boot out of the LC religious system.

Henry gave me a copy of his book, "One Ekklesia" and asked that I let him know what I thought. So far, I'm just up to chapter three, and I can say that I can't disagree with anything specifically. In fact, things I've written on this forum about "ekklesia" as opposed to "church," basically mirror what's in his book. (i.e., the etymology of "church" more closely suggests a physical structure and hierarchical institution; "ekklesia" is the called-out assembly of people)

Just this morning, I had a Zoom call with a brother who contacted me through this forum earlier in the year, because it was suggested to him (perhaps by Frank Viola - another home meeting advocate it seems) that he read certain of Bill Freeman's books. It turns out that this brother also has a copy of Hon's book that is the topic of this thread.

The ex-LC elder I mentioned above, told me that he believes much more will happen with Christians meeting house to house, like is outlined in Henry's book. He pointed out that in these days of Covid-19, many Christians are not allowed to meet in large gatherings. Therefore, this may be a big impetus for more and more Christians to participate in home gatherings.

Home gatherings are hard for man to control. Of course, this is apparently what the LC was seeing when they gave Henry the boot ten years ago - that is, they couldn't control the Spirit moving in these meetings very well . . .

[Sons to Glory!]

I’m about halfway through Henry’s book now, titled “One Ekklesia.” He and I been texting back and forth about the book’s subject matter and a couple days ago we decided to have a phone call, which lasted over an hour. It was a very good and interesting conversation and I thought to post here regarding my bottom-line observations and takeaways.

We discussed that the LC had many good things, but got all myopically focused on the ministry, rather than the building up of the saints. As put forth in Henry’s book, the ekklesia, from the beginning, was not to be controlled in such a way. In the early ekklesia, it was all mostly house to house. Paul and the other apostles were in support of the various ekklesias, to build them up. Then along came the organization, promoted mainly by the Church in Rome.

After the Reformation, some groups tried to bring back the open functioning of the members, but the whole clergy-laity influence was still present in many groups, which caused them to focus on a particular ministry. This emphasis usually brings with it a person(s) as the focus, as was true in the LC.

Starting in the mid-1980s, Henry and his wife began enjoying a robust and liberated house to house ekklesia in the Bay area (CA), that wasn’t focused on the ministry of WL. Eventually, the LC wanted to bring these numerous little independent fellowships under tighter control of the Living Stream Ministry. However, the Hons had tasted how good, fresh and rich the Spirit was in these house groups, and their conscience could not allow them to subject themselves to this control. So they got the boot from the LC about 10 years ago.

In speaking with Henry, I got a clearer picture of how the Lord can function in these house to house ekklesias. With no one human in charge, this is a great opportunity for the Lord’s Spirit to have the freedom to operate.
I’m beginning to see what Henry talks about in his book – that is, the difference between ministry and the ekklesia. The ministry, as it was in the apostles time, was toward the building up of the ekklesia (which usually met house to house). The ministry was NOT about building itself up. However, what we have so much these days, is ministries that do just that. This is what is prevailing in most churches now. If someone is not aligning well with a particular ministry they’re under or persons responsible for it, there are often problems and probable “disconnects.” This shows that the unity of that group is more around the ministry or ministers themselves.

These days, many churches are not meeting due to COVID. The day might come soon when the pressures to close churches may become stronger, and/or even politically motivated. How will believers gather then? During the suggested “lock-down” last spring here in Arizona, the Scottsdale church didn’t officially meet for about six weeks. During that time, we did much more of the house to house ekklesia. For instance, we didn’t do our much treasured Thursday brothers’ breakfast at the church property, so we had a scaled-down version in my home! And when did the ekklesia in China really take off? When there were open persecutions and they could not meet in the large, denominational buildings (“churches”)!

Lastly, Henry’s view is that it will be the “unorganized” ekklesia which the Lord says the gates of Hades cannot stand against. He also said that they were going for “chaos” with these home gatherings. That is, that there would be a minimal amount of human organization and regulating. (This resonated with me as I have witnessed several times, that the Lord is more likely to move when there isn’t a high degree of rules and organizing and specific outlining of what should be done. In these instances, it’s as if the Lord says, “I see you believe you’ve got things under control, so I’ll just withdraw Myself until you think you need me again.”) I told Henry I liked many things I’m seeing from his book, and I also conveyed that I was still digesting certain concepts from it. But I have to say, I think he presents some really fascinating and quasi-revolutionary ideas to prayerfully consider, to say the least!

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Even our Brother WL and WN were slaves of the Lord. They did not consider themselves as anything but just like Paul the Apostle considered themselves as a poured drink offering. WN himself died in prison as a slave of the Lord.

Unregistered, sorry that you have only received sensationalized Recovery hagiography concerning Nee and Lee.

Actual Recovery history shows us how little humility that Nee and Lee had, and how they thought of themselves far greater than they ought. Romans 12.2-3 makes it clear that these two needed their minds renewed. Though they both were extremely gifted members, who did much work for the Lord, they wrongly uplifted themselves. They fought to be #1 much the same as the pre-death-and-resurrection disciples.