A Plague Upon Denominationalism!

testallthings · 04-10-2017, 10:08 PM

A plague upon denominationalism! There should be but one denomination: we
should be denominated by the name of Christ, as the wife is named by her husband’s
name. As long as the church of Christ has to say, “My right arm is Episcopalian, and
my left arm is Wesleyan, and my right foot is Baptist, and my left foot is
Presbyterian or Congregational,” she is not ready for the marriage. She will be ready
when she has washed out these stains, when all her members have “one Lord, one
faith, one baptism.”
Charles Haddon Spurgeon

What do you think about this statement?

(I would like to see a discussion between only two posters at the time. Someone will comment on this tread, then anyone who responds will be in the discussion for three turns. After 3 replies, a new set of 2 different posters can start their discussion, and so on... if there is no reply to a post for more than a week, a new poster can feel free to step in. All this, of course if Unto agrees.)

Evangelical · 04-10-2017, 11:55 PM

I agree with the point that the denominations are a stain on Christianity.

UntoHim · 04-11-2017, 06:56 AM

Spurgeon strikes again!

Quote:

I believe that, after all, there is more truth in this world now with all the apparent divisions of Christians by ten times than there would have been if we had been united in a nominal union into some one great church, which might, perhaps have rotted as thoroughly as the old Church of Rome did before the days of Luther.

and even more sharper to the point here:

Quote:

Beloved, the true church is now in the forming, and is therefore not visible. There are many churches; but as to the one church of Christ, we see it neither here nor there. We speak of the visible church; but the term is not correct. The thing which we see is a mixture of believers and mere pretenders to faith. The church which is affianced unto the heavenly Bridegroom is not visible as yet; for she is in the process of formation.

I suspect that these Spurgeon quotes came after the original one posted by testallthings. They show a "matured view" of a seasoned Christian leader, who has perhaps seen so much, and experienced so much more. The view and understandings of such a mature believer leans towards the view that the Body of Christ is a "beautiful work in progress"...a progress in which the Lord of the Harvest is fully and completely in charge. Such a seasoned believer stands firm on the solid rock of our Savior's declaration: "I Will Build My Church!"
-

Ohio · 04-11-2017, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Spurgeon strikes again!

and even more sharper to the point here:
I suspect that these Spurgeon quotes came after the original one posted by testallthings. They show a "matured view" of a seasoned Christian leader, who has perhaps seen so much, and experienced so much more. The view and understandings of such a mature believer leans towards the view that the Body of Christ is a "beautiful work in progress"...a progress in which the Lord of the Harvest is fully and completely in charge. Such a seasoned believer stands firm on the solid rock of our Savior's declaration: "I Will Build My Church!"
-

Having seen the rotten fruit up close, Spurgeon was a fierce critic of Darby Exclusivism.

It's likely that quote was in response to their attacks on him.

testallthings · 05-31-2017, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ohio

Having seen the rotten fruit up close, Spurgeon was a fierce critic of Darby Exclusivism.
It's likely that quote was in response to their attacks on him.

Ohio, your deductive reasoning seems to be very inadequate, to say the least. Try again, you might be more lucky the next time.

testallthings · 06-04-2017, 08:10 PM

I find UntoHim and Ohio posts quite interesting.
The first one tries to justify Spurgeon's curse as an immature (we have seen that actually Spurgeon delivered those words at the end of his life) understanding of the Church, while the second tries to attribute Spurgeon's harsh words to his reaction against Darby Exclusivism. This second deduction requires more imagination or simply the assumption that Spurgeon suffered some sort of skizophrenia. Why would he attack Episcopalian, Wesleyan, Baptist, Presbyterian and Congregationalist and forget to mention the Brethren?

countmeworthy · 04-11-2017, 07:54 AM

Quote:

A plague upon denominationalism! There should be but one denomination: we
should be denominated by the name of Christ,

Are not denominatons man made?
We are more than being 'denominated'. Christ is in us, in our spirit transforming our stinking thinking, renewing our mind by His Holy Spirit. Christianity, a man made religion may be denominated by the Name of Christ but many do not have Christ living and residing in their spirits.

The scriptures do not talk about us being denominated by the name of Christ. The scriptures talk about a true believer having Christ IN them, the Hope of Glory, that one day, (soon I believe) all true Blood washed believers will have Glorified bodies.

I myself am sooooo looking forward to that Glorious moment when in the twinkling of an eye I will be changed from this corruptible body into my incorruptible body, from this mortal body into my immortal, sinless body for all eternity.

From Evangelical:

Quote:

I agree with the point that the denominations are a stain on Christianity.

Taking the denominations out of the equation, let's say there are no denominations whatsoever, no Baptists, Pentecostals etc... are you saying here that the LC/LSM is now the embodiment of Christianity?

Keep in mind you said denominations are a stain on Christianity. Just looking for some clarification here.

Evangelical · 04-11-2017, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by countmeworthy

Are not denominatons man made?
We are more than being 'denominated'. Christ is in us, in our spirit transforming our stinking thinking, renewing our mind by His Holy Spirit. Christianity, a man made religion may be denominated by the Name of Christ but many do not have Christ living and residing in their spirits.

The scriptures do not talk about us being denominated by the name of Christ. The scriptures talk about a true believer having Christ IN them, the Hope of Glory, that one day, (soon I believe) all true Blood washed believers will have Glorified bodies.

I myself am sooooo looking forward to that Glorious moment when in the twinkling of an eye I will be changed from this corruptible body into my incorruptible body, from this mortal body into my immortal, sinless body for all eternity.

From Evangelical:

Taking the denominations out of the equation, let's say there are no denominations whatsoever, no Baptists, Pentecostals etc... are you saying here that the LC/LSM is now the embodiment of Christianity?

Keep in mind you said denominations are a stain on Christianity. Just looking for some clarification here.

There would be no LC or need for LSM if denominations did not exist. To clarify what I mean by this - one reason the LC and LSM exists today is because of Christianity's failure to renounce denominations.
Over history, God has raised up a separate group of people to accomplish His will. LC is one of them.

Re "The scriptures do not talk about us being denominated by the name of Christ. " - I don't agree, I agree with Spurgeon. Being called Christian means a Christ-follower, it is to be denominated by the name of Christ. Christ is the only name we should be denominated by. The problem with denominations is that they add to or replace the name of Christ with something else.

Koinonia · 04-11-2017, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evangelical

There would be no LC or need for LSM if denominations did not exist.

Your very own statement is an indication that the LC as just another denomination.

testallthings · 04-11-2017, 08:07 PM

A WORD OF CLARIFICATION
As I stated in my first post, I hoped the discussion could be limited between only two members at the time. I was hoping that Evangelical and UntoHim could post 3 times before other 2 members would have their discussion. I thought this way could avoid a lot of confusion and be less stressful for one member to answer different posts at the same time.
If it is possible could we allow Evangelical and UntoHim to finish their discussion?
They had a first turn. Let them have another 2. Thanks.

Evangelical · 04-11-2017, 08:36 PM

I think this is my third and last post to pre-preemptively address the matter of LC being a denomination and Spurgeons quote.

Spurgeon saw the truth and God's will concerning denominations in Christianity. Spurgeon however was a baptist, and did not understand that holding to a rigid view of infant baptism was itself a denominational concept.
There is a belief that baptists are the true Christians, a group of people outside of Catholicism and Orthodoxy who have stayed true to the apostles. I am not sure whether he believed in that or not. In any case, to denominate on the basis of baptism is not scriptural and is divisive.

Spurgeon also called himself a Calvinist. He said once "I am never ashamed to avow myself a Calvinist". Spurgeon reveals himself to be an unspiritual person as he fails Paul's instructions "I follow Paul, I follow Calvin" test.

Some have said that LC is a denomination. However they are not a denomination because they stand apart from the denominations.

Because people are so used to the denominational concepts, they have no concept of a church existing apart from and distinct from the denominations. No one can ever answer me when I ask them to point to where the true non-denominational church actually is. They often respond with some airy fairy concept of the body of Christ that is invisible and intangible. They cannot point to a single group of physical people on the Earth and say "they are the non-denominational body of Christ". They will not do that because as soon as they do that they are declaring that all the denominations and possibly the very one they attend themselves, are false. That is why they call LC a denomination.

To a denominational person, the LC may look just like another denomination. The problem with denominational people, is that they try so hard to find ways to consider you as being in a denomination, instead of heeding Spurgeon's or Witness Lee's words, and trying to remove the stain of denominational-ism that afflicts them.

They would be wise to heed Spurgeon's instructions "She will be ready when she has washed out these stains", and focus on washing out their stains than trying to name the LC as "just another body-part". "The wife is named by her husbands name concept" is a view shared by Spurgeon and Lee. As I have said many times before, if a wife takes another name, as denominations are, then it is a problem. A woman who takes a name other than that of her husband is an adulteress and to be an adulteress with the world is to be an enemy of God. Therefore denominations are not just stains but enemies of God. Romans 8:8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

Bradley · 06-05-2017, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evangelical

I agree with the point that the denominations are a stain on Christianity.

Yep, this is true, I agree. But it doesn't seem to me that the LC is exempt from being called 'just another denomination'.

The lifestudy of 1Cor (msg 6) points out 1 Cor. 1: 12 how it says that some say "I [am] of Christ" like thats a bad thing - implying that all the other precious believers are not of Christ, because they say they are of Peter or whoever. Good point, I agree with the lifestudy on this point. All believers are of Christ, its terrible to say that you are, and so-and-so isn't.

However, even though the lifestudy teaches this, most LCers fail to practise it in daily life, even coworkers. The reality is, most 'saints' are intrinsically exclusive about being 'of Christ' deep to their core. They might agree outwardly that other Christians are genuine believers also, but they'll still refer to LCers as saints and people in denomination as mere Christians.

I would go as far as to argue that saying "I am of Christ" is worse than saying "I am of Peter" because of its arrogance. Way to shun and exclude the majority of the Body of Christ :|

04-10-2017, 10:08 PM	#1
testallthings Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 297	A Plague Upon Denominationalism! A plague upon denominationalism! There should be but one denomination: we should be denominated by the name of Christ, as the wife is named by her husband’s name. As long as the church of Christ has to say, “My right arm is Episcopalian, and my left arm is Wesleyan, and my right foot is Baptist, and my left foot is Presbyterian or Congregational,” she is not ready for the marriage. She will be ready when she has washed out these stains, when all her members have “one Lord, one faith, one baptism.” Charles Haddon Spurgeon What do you think about this statement? (I would like to see a discussion between only two posters at the time. Someone will comment on this tread, then anyone who responds will be in the discussion for three turns. After 3 replies, a new set of 2 different posters can start their discussion, and so on... if there is no reply to a post for more than a week, a new poster can feel free to step in. All this, of course if Unto agrees.) __________________ TEST ALL THINGS, KEEP THE GOOD

04-10-2017, 11:55 PM	#2
Evangelical Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 3,965	Re: A PLAGUE UPON DENOMINATIONALISM! I agree with the point that the denominations are a stain on Christianity.

06-04-2017, 08:10 PM	#6
testallthings Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 297	Re: A Plague Upon Denominationalism! I find UntoHim and Ohio posts quite interesting. The first one tries to justify Spurgeon's curse as an immature (we have seen that actually Spurgeon delivered those words at the end of his life) understanding of the Church, while the second tries to attribute Spurgeon's harsh words to his reaction against Darby Exclusivism. This second deduction requires more imagination or simply the assumption that Spurgeon suffered some sort of skizophrenia. Why would he attack Episcopalian, Wesleyan, Baptist, Presbyterian and Congregationalist and forget to mention the Brethren? __________________ TEST ALL THINGS, KEEP THE GOOD

04-11-2017, 08:07 PM	#10
testallthings Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 297	Re: A Plague Upon Denominationalism! A WORD OF CLARIFICATION As I stated in my first post, I hoped the discussion could be limited between only two members at the time. I was hoping that Evangelical and UntoHim could post 3 times before other 2 members would have their discussion. I thought this way could avoid a lot of confusion and be less stressful for one member to answer different posts at the same time. If it is possible could we allow Evangelical and UntoHim to finish their discussion? They had a first turn. Let them have another 2. Thanks. __________________ TEST ALL THINGS, KEEP THE GOOD

04-11-2017, 08:36 PM	#11
Evangelical Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 3,965	Re: A Plague Upon Denominationalism! I think this is my third and last post to pre-preemptively address the matter of LC being a denomination and Spurgeons quote. Spurgeon saw the truth and God's will concerning denominations in Christianity. Spurgeon however was a baptist, and did not understand that holding to a rigid view of infant baptism was itself a denominational concept. There is a belief that baptists are the true Christians, a group of people outside of Catholicism and Orthodoxy who have stayed true to the apostles. I am not sure whether he believed in that or not. In any case, to denominate on the basis of baptism is not scriptural and is divisive. Spurgeon also called himself a Calvinist. He said once "I am never ashamed to avow myself a Calvinist". Spurgeon reveals himself to be an unspiritual person as he fails Paul's instructions "I follow Paul, I follow Calvin" test. Some have said that LC is a denomination. However they are not a denomination because they stand apart from the denominations. Because people are so used to the denominational concepts, they have no concept of a church existing apart from and distinct from the denominations. No one can ever answer me when I ask them to point to where the true non-denominational church actually is. They often respond with some airy fairy concept of the body of Christ that is invisible and intangible. They cannot point to a single group of physical people on the Earth and say "they are the non-denominational body of Christ". They will not do that because as soon as they do that they are declaring that all the denominations and possibly the very one they attend themselves, are false. That is why they call LC a denomination. To a denominational person, the LC may look just like another denomination. The problem with denominational people, is that they try so hard to find ways to consider you as being in a denomination, instead of heeding Spurgeon's or Witness Lee's words, and trying to remove the stain of denominational-ism that afflicts them. They would be wise to heed Spurgeon's instructions "She will be ready when she has washed out these stains", and focus on washing out their stains than trying to name the LC as "just another body-part". "The wife is named by her husbands name concept" is a view shared by Spurgeon and Lee. As I have said many times before, if a wife takes another name, as denominations are, then it is a problem. A woman who takes a name other than that of her husband is an adulteress and to be an adulteress with the world is to be an enemy of God. Therefore denominations are not just stains but enemies of God. Romans 8:8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.