Reading the Bible does not Give us the Spirit

Evangelical · 10-15-2016, 01:50 AM

There is a quote on the main page of this site that I just want to address:

The Spirit inspired the Word and therefore He goes where the Word goes.
The more of God's Word you know and love, the more of God's Spirit you will experience. ~ John Piper.

Many individuals, ministries, churches believe this, that by knowing, loving and teaching the Word of God, that we are becoming more filled with the Spirit.

It sounds logical, the Spirit inspired the Bible, therefore read the Bible and you get the Spirit! Read the Bible more and you get more Spirit! But it is correct? No, and it is in fact illogical. The Bible came from the Spirit, but the Spirit does not come from the Bible. It's like if I write a letter to my wife, does she get more of me by reading and loving my letter? No. Even if she studies my letter diligently and knows it inside out, she only gets me when she asks for me. Likewise, reading, studying, loving the bible, God's letter to us, does not get us more of God. What gets us more of the Spirit is when we ask for the Spirit.

This idea of reading the Bible to get the Spirit is false for a few more reasons.

1. The Pharisees were diligent and loved the Scriptures and knew them very well, yet Jesus said:

John 5:39 "You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me,".

Jesus stated right there that knowledge of the Scriptures does not give eternal life, and since the Spirit is the Spirit of (eternal) life, we can conclude that knowledge of the Scriptures does not give the Spirit.

2. The Bible itself says that scripture's purpose is to make us wise, not give us the Spirit:

2 Tim 3:15 "From infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus."

3. In the Bible, believers received the Spirit the moment they heard the gospel and believed, not read the Bible (Acts 10:44-47) and

Acts 19:2 "and asked them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" They answered, "No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.""

4. When the apostle Paul had his conversion experience, he was blinded, obviously he was not reading the Scripture to get the Spirit.

5. Jesus breathed His Spirit on the disciples and did not tell them to read the Scriptures to get the Spirit.

6. When the disciples were waiting for the outpouring of the Spirit, they were not reading their Bibles fervently to get filled with the Spirit, but waiting as the Lord told them to (Acts 2).

7. A large percentage of the world's Christians do not have or have access to the Bible in their own language. Does it mean they cannot be filled with the Spirit? Of course not. The Christians who arguably need the Spirit the most (in persecuted or underground churches) may not even have a bible! Does this mean they are helpless? Of course not.

8. We find no example in the New Testament of anyone reading their Scriptures to get the Holy Spirit or be filled with the Holy Spirit.

The only true and sure fire way to be filled with the Spirit is to ask!

Luke 11:13 "If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!""

Ohio · 10-15-2016, 05:53 AM

You did a slick "bait amd switch" here.

Piper said, "The more of God's Word you know and love, the more of God's Spirit you will experience."

You changed this to, "reading the Bible does not give us the Spirit."

Classic Lee.

least · 10-15-2016, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ohio

You did a slick "bait amd switch" here.
Classic Lee.

haha. wl - lower case wl, in WL life and nature but not the WL head.

testallthings · 10-17-2016, 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ohio

You did a slick "bait amd switch" here.

Piper said, "The more of God's Word you know and love, the more of God's Spirit you will experience."

You changed this to, "reading the Bible does not give us the Spirit."

Classic Lee.

I agree with what Ohio said. Piper was talking about experiencing the Spirit.
A simple example maybe would clarify:

We read in the Word (The Bible) about loving our neighbor or our enemies. We realize that in ourselves we cannot. We pray God to manifest His love in us. He answer our prayer by filling us with His Spirit, His Love, etc.. We experience more of God Spirit. If this is what Piper meant, there is nothing wrong with it.

Evangelical · 10-19-2016, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ohio

You did a slick "bait amd switch" here.
Piper said, "The more of God's Word you know and love, the more of God's Spirit you will experience."
You changed this to, "reading the Bible does not give us the Spirit."
Classic Lee.

It means the same thing. Experiencing the Spirit is essentially same as being filled with the Spirit. Both the experience and the filling or receiving of the Spirit is not by reading the Bible.

Evangelical · 10-19-2016, 12:13 AM

John F. MacArthur, Piper and others are among a number of Christian teachers and authors who are confused on this matter and despite being heralded as great Christian teachers, are teaching something not found in the Bible at all.

The Spirit inspired the Bible but they flip it around and say that the Spirit depends on the Bible , or that the Bible "inspires" or results in the Spirit. They equate the Spirit with what we do, and that is the mistake. Anything that says the Spirit depends upon the Bible or us is to say that the Spirit is not God. This kind of teaching is also prevalent in the denominations that supposedly believe in the Spirit and the spiritual gifts. For example, when a tv-evangelist waves his hands, the Spirit falls on people and they fall down. Churches claim the Spirit comes down to them when the band starts playing during the worship time. Associating the Spirit with any sort of religious activity is a mistake. When the Spirit first fell upon the believers at Pentecost, all they did was wait for it. Nothing they did caused the Spirit to fall. When Jesus breathed the Spirit on the disciples, they did nothing to make that happen.

The proper understanding of the Spirit is to realize that the Spirit may fall upon the saint or the sinner alike, and it has nothing particularly to do with how much of the Bible we know, or how obedience we've been.

There is a number of incorrect teachings found in
MacArthur 2-in-1: 2 Truth-Filled Books in 1 Volume to Strengthen Your Faith
By John F. MacArthur, some quote John Piper.

These teachings include:

"The Spirit goes where the Word goes" - wrong, the bible says - the Spirit goes wherever He likes, like the wind (John 3:8).

"Churches can't be Spirit-led unless they are Word fed" (Bob Kauflin) - it is wrong to equate the Spirit's leading with the amount of biblical knowledge.

"The more of God's Word you know and love, the more of God's Spirit you will experience." - Piper.

It doesn't matter whether it is receiving, being filled or experiencing the Spirit, none of it depends upon reading the Bible or even obeying the Bible.

The Bible says the Spirit is received by grace and it is a gift. If it depended upon us it would not be a gift.

Galatians 3:2 says "Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? "

Did we receive the Spirit by our bible reading or obedience to the bible? (law), no.

There is no verse or example in the Bible of anyone being filled, experiencing, or receiving the Spirit because of reading, studying, or applying the Bible.

It is possible that what people claim to experience as the "Spirit" when they follow or obey the Bible is just an appeasement or satisfaction of their own religious conscience. A person may experience the "Spirit" when they do any sort of religious activity. Just as a Catholic may experience the "Spirit" as they bow to the statue of the virgin Mary, a protestant or an evangelical may experience a similar "religious hot flush" when they devote themselves to reading the Bible.

In the Pentecostal denominations, what they experience when the "Spirit comes" is likewise a heightened sense of zeal, emotion or feeling, aroused by the atmosphere and the particular occasion. It is really no different to the feelings and experiences that a person of any religion might experience they are in a large gathering and devoted to some particular religious cause.

ZNPaaneah · 10-15-2016, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evangelical

This idea of reading the Bible to get the Spirit is false for a few more reasons.

1. The Pharisees were diligent and loved the Scriptures and knew them very well, yet Jesus said:

John 5:39 "You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me,".

Jesus stated right there that knowledge of the Scriptures does not give eternal life, and since the Spirit is the Spirit of (eternal) life, we can conclude that knowledge of the Scriptures does not give the Spirit.

By this logic we shouldn't drive cars because many people have been killed in car accidents. We shouldn't go swimming because many people have drowned to death. etc. etc. Jesus did not rebuke them for studying the Bible, he rebuked them for not coming to Him because the scriptures they were studying testified of Him. What was your point, that reading the scriptures doesn't give you life, rather it gives you the testimony of Jesus? If that is your point it seems it should have been included in the title, otherwise the title will very likely be misunderstood.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evangelical

2. The Bible itself says that scripture's purpose is to make us wise, not give us the Spirit:

2 Tim 3:15 "From infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus."

So then your point is that reading the Bible doesn't give us life, it gives us wisdom? If that is your point it seems it should have been included in the title, otherwise the title will very likely be misunderstood.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evangelical

3. In the Bible, believers received the Spirit the moment they heard the gospel and believed, not read the Bible (Acts 10:44-47) and

Acts 19:2 "and asked them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" They answered, "No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.""

Right this portion shows the deficiency in the gospel they heard and in the salvation that they received. So if your point is that "reading the scripture doesn't give you life but it does result in a complete salvation" then why didn't you say that. Your title is very likely to be misunderstood.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evangelical

4. When the apostle Paul had his conversion experience, he was blinded, obviously he was not reading the Scripture to get the Spirit.

What? You are talking about a man who has spent years of his life studying the scriptures but because he probably wasn't reading at the moment he was riding on a horse you conclude we don't need to read scripture? This is absurd.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evangelical

5. Jesus breathed His Spirit on the disciples and did not tell them to read the Scriptures to get the Spirit.

So then what was the purpose for these same disciples writing the gospels and epistles or Revelation?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evangelical

6. When the disciples were waiting for the outpouring of the Spirit, they were not reading their Bibles fervently to get filled with the Spirit, but waiting as the Lord told them to (Acts 2).

Oh, so you aren't talking about fellowshipping over the word, you aren't talking about meditating on the word, or praying over the word. You assume that no one had yet to write down what had taken place over the last few years, and even if they had it wasn't part of the canon yet. What do you think they were praying, meditating on, and fellowshipping about?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evangelical

7. A large percentage of the world's Christians do not have or have access to the Bible in their own language. Does it mean they cannot be filled with the Spirit? Of course not. The Christians who arguably need the Spirit the most (in persecuted or underground churches) may not even have a bible! Does this mean they are helpless? Of course not.

8. We find no example in the New Testament of anyone reading their Scriptures to get the Holy Spirit or be filled with the Holy Spirit.

The only true and sure fire way to be filled with the Spirit is to ask!

Luke 11:13 "If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!""

That is terrible. A large percentage don't have the Bible in their own language? Can you be a little more specific. What percentage don't have access to a Bible? Thanks

Evangelical · 10-19-2016, 12:07 AM

Reading the Scriptures does not give life, is the same as saying reading the Scriptures does not give the Spirit.

There is no example anywhere in the Bible of someone receiving the Spirit by reading the Scripture.

The statistics of Christians not having a bible or one in a language they can read or understand is found at www.bibleleague.org

ZNPaaneah · 10-19-2016, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Reading the Scriptures does not give life, is the same as saying reading the Scriptures does not give the Spirit.

There is no example anywhere in the Bible of someone receiving the Spirit by reading the Scripture.

The statistics of Christians not having a bible or one in a language they can read or understand is found at www.bibleleague.org

As of September 2016 the full Bible has been translated into 554 languages, and 2,932 languages have at least some portion of the Bible.

Anyone with internet access could access any of these translations. Either through the internet or order them and have them shipped to them.

It is highly unlikely that there are any significant percentage of human population that is not illiterate that does not read one of these 554 languages.

Evangelical · 10-23-2016, 04:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

As of September 2016 the full Bible has been translated into 554 languages, and 2,932 languages have at least some portion of the Bible.

You need more education then, according to this article:

http://www.christianpost.com/news/bi...nguage-137423/

https://www.bibleleague.org/what-we-do/translation/
Today about 200 million, in almost 1,800 languages, still don’t have a Bible in their native language. And many more have limited access to translations of the Bible that are too difficult to understand.

Evangelical · 10-23-2016, 04:23 AM

If the Scripture was that important for receiving the Spirit we should find at least one example. The fact is we cannot.

Does knowing and loving the Bible automatically give us the Spirit? Not according to the Ethiopian eunuch (Acts 8:27).

The eunuch was a worshiper of God, and obviously loved reading the Scripture. Yet it was not sufficient to grant him the Spirit.

The eunuch is another example of Piper not knowing the Bible. Piper's claim that loving the Bible gives us the Spirit is false.

According to Piper, more Spirit is a result of knowing and loving God's Word more. But it is possible for an illiterate person to have more Spirit than a highly qualified theologian, as Simon Peter might testify. Piper's doctrine is bordering on bibliolatry which is prevalent in Christianity.

In Christianity and society today, the Bible is often used as a tool of "superstition and magic" and for conjuring religious experiences, rather than for it's true intended purpose.

ZNPaaneah · 10-23-2016, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evangelical

You need more education then..

Is there a significant portion of the human population that does not read one of these 554 languages? That is the question.

If a person reads two languages and the Bible is only written in one you are making an issue about what?

85% of the world's population speaks one of the top 100 languages as their native language.

http://www.worldlibrary.org/articles...ative_speakers

Now that just refers to their "native language". In the vast majority of these cases people will speak more than one language. This does not say how many speak the top 554 languages, but you can see from this chart that it may very well be another 14% by simple extrapolation. But what we can certainly conclude is that the number speaking the 555th language must be less than 0.035% of the world's population.

Now if you read a language that only a hundred thousand people spoke, it is very likely that you also speak another language since there is no nation on this earth with that language as its national language.

Therefore you can claim this is a problem of bible translation, but it can also be seen as a problem of illiteracy in some 3rd world nation.

Ohio · 10-19-2016, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Experiencing the Spirit is essentially same as being filled with the Spirit. Both the experience and the filling or receiving of the Spirit is not by reading the Bible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Reading the Scriptures does not give life, is the same as saying reading the Scriptures does not give the Spirit.

There is no example anywhere in the Bible of someone receiving the Spirit by reading the Scripture.

Dumbest things I ever heard a Christian say.

I was miraculously given the life of God, washed in the blood of Jesus, filled with His Spirit, and born anew in my bedroom, just by reading the scriptures the night I was saved. And, btw, it was not the Recovery Version or the KJV, but some "shallow" paraphrased version called the "The Greatest is Love."

Since there is "no example anywhere in the Bible" does that mean it never happened to me?

Evangelical, you continually amaze me with some of your comments.

least · 10-19-2016, 05:00 PM

John 6: 63

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

UntoHim · 10-15-2016, 10:37 AM

Evangelical, You put fourth a number of contentions in your opening post. I'll just touch upon a couple of them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Many individuals, ministries, churches believe this, that by knowing, loving and teaching the Word of God, that we are becoming more filled with the Spirit.

If the writings and teachings of "many individuals, ministries and churches" over the past 2,000 years accounts for anything, then what John Piper has stated is spot on accurate. I think in your rush to judgment against Piper, a longtime respected and admired Christian teacher and writer for decades, you have ventured into territory that even Witness Lee would not have gone to. Congratulations my friend, maybe you're not as stuck on Lee as I thought.

Quote:

The Bible came from the Spirit, but the Spirit does not come from the Bible.

I'm sure what you meant to say is "the Spirit does not necessarily come from the Bible", right? Actually, adding the qualifier "necessarily" still puts us on some very tenuous ground, but I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt here. Care to restate or clarify?

Quote:

1. The Pharisees were diligent and loved the Scriptures and knew them very well, yet Jesus said:
John 5:39 "You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me,".

Interesting choice of translation here. I bet you're quite aware that the Recovery Version renders this Greek word (ἐρευνάω ereunáō) "search", as do the vast majority of modern translations. Why did you choose the minority translation of "study"? I suspect you referred us to this translation because it apparently (in your mind) backs up your notion that "the Spirit does not come from the Bible". What you might not be aware of, is this Gk word ἐρευνάω is universally rendered "search" throughout the New Testament. In any event, the context of John 5:39, and indeed the entire chapter, dictates that the Lord Jesus was referring not to the "study" of the Scriptures per se, but rather that the Jews were ignoring the vital message that was apparently hiding in plain sight - that He was the Son of God, sent by the Father, to do the work of the Father. The problem was not with the Scriptures, but with their hardness and blindness to the clear message behind the black and white.

My point is most exemplified by the opening verses in John 5 - the invalid man at the pool of Bethesda who was healed by Jesus. The Jews chastised Jesus for ostensibly breaking the black and white law of the Sabbath, however, they failed miserably at seeing the real message: "For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom he will."(Vr 21)

-

testallthings · 10-19-2016, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evangelical

There is a quote on the main page of this site that I just want to address:

The Spirit inspired the Word and therefore He goes where the Word goes.
The more of God's Word you know and love, the more of God's Spirit you will experience. ~ John Piper.

Many individuals, ministries, churches believe this, that by knowing, loving and teaching the Word of God, that we are becoming more filled with the Spirit.

Evangelical,

W. Lee was even more bold to affirm that the Word is the Spirit and the Spirit is the Word.

"Thank the Lord, we now have the Word and the Spirit.

These three—the Lord, the Word, and the Spirit—are one. The Lord is the Word, and He is also the Spirit. The Word is the Spirit, and the Spirit is the Lord."

http://www.prayreading.org/quotes/quotes_chapter.html

least · 10-20-2016, 12:49 AM

By Evangelical: Reading the Bible does not Give us the Spirit.

http://www.prayreading.org/quotes/quotes_chapter.html

"Rather, we pray by means of the Word of God and the Spirit of God to take in God Himself, who is in His words and in His Spirit. In this way, His words in us not only become a supply to us, but they also convict and teach us from deep within. This is the proper way to read the Lord's Word. May the Lord give us grace and strength and lead us to practice this every day."
Quoted from webpage titled:
The following is Chapter 6 from A Living of Mutual Abiding with the Lord in Spirit by Witness Lee, published by Living Stream Ministry, 2000

Evangelical listen to your master. If reading the bible does not give you the Spirit, follow WL advice to the 'proper' way to read the Lord's Word.
May the Lord give you grace and strength and lead you to practice this every day. (Thus, to qualify a 'proper' wl, express WL properly.

)

JJ · 10-20-2016, 11:09 PM

I've been sitting on the sidelines of this topic. 2 Corinthians suggests there is a veil that lies over hearts that can make reading scripture just killing letters that is done away with in Christ as one turns their heart to the Lord to receive the freeing and transforming Spirit while gazing at and reflecting the glory of the Lord.

http://biblehub.com/nasb/2_corinthians/3.htm

I'm always amazed how often it is about who our heart is turned to, and where our eyes are pointed.... the Lord Jesus Christ!

testallthings · 10-22-2016, 02:21 AM

JJ wrote:

I've been sitting on the sidelines of this topic. 2 Corinthians suggests there is a veil that lies over hearts that can make reading scripture just killing letters that is done away with in Christ as one turns their heart to the Lord to receive the freeing and transforming Spirit while gazing at and reflecting the glory of the Lord.

http://biblehub.com/nasb/2_corinthians/3.htm

I'm always amazed how often it is about who our heart is turned to, and where our eyes are pointed.... the Lord Jesus Christ!

JJ,
I am not going to analyze 2 Corinthians 3 in detail.
2Co 3:12 Having therefore such a hope, we use great boldness of speech,
2Co 3:13 and are not as Moses, who put a veil upon his face, that the children of Israel should not look stedfastly on the end of that which was passing away:
2Co 3:14 but their minds were hardened: for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remaineth, it not being revealed to them that it is done away in Christ.
2Co 3:15 But unto this day, whensoever Moses is read, a veil lieth upon their heart.
2Co 3:16 But whensoever it shall turn to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

Paul was saying that when the Jews (the children of Israel) read Moses (Moses' writing, or the old covenant) there is a veil over their heart. That veil can be removed only when their hearts turn to the Lord.
Moses covered his face with a veil, Paul did not.

2Co 3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of a new covenant; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Paul was comparing the two covenants. The law could not give life.
Rom 7:10 and the commandment, which was unto life, this I found to be unto death:
It is the Spirit that gives life.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus made me free from the law of sin and of death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God, sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 that the ordinance of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

The moment we believed in the Lord Jesus, and His Spirit got into us to regenerate us, if there was a veil ( I say if because Paul is referring to the children of Israel, but let's assume Gentiles had the same veil) it was taken away. Now when we come to the Bible, with an open heart and with prayer, for the purpose of knowing more about God and His will, are we just going to get more knowledge about Him or do we expect to experience more of God, Christ, and the Spirit?

Brother George Mueller (and many other servants of God) read the Bible hundred of times (someone said 200 times), and prayed over the Bible every day of his life. Does anyone believe that if he hadn't spend time in God's Word in the way he did, his life and ministry would have been the same?

Without the Word, there is no knowledge of God. How do we know God loves the world? How do we know we have been saved? How do we know we are children of God? How do we know what God wants? How do we know God listen to prayers?... God and His Word go together. The Word leads us to God and God leads us to His Word. The more we know the Word, the more we will go to God. The more we pray the Word the more we will experience God (or God's Spirit).

Evangelical wrote:

There is a quote on the main page of this site that I just want to address:

The Spirit inspired the Word and therefore He goes where the Word goes.
The more of God's Word you know and love, the more of God's Spirit you will experience. ~ John Piper.

Many individuals, ministries, churches believe this, that by knowing, loving and teaching the Word of God, that we are becoming more filled with the Spirit.

It sounds logical, the Spirit inspired the Bible, therefore read the Bible and you get the Spirit! Read the Bible more and you get more Spirit! But it is correct? No, and it is in fact illogical. The Bible came from the Spirit, but the Spirit does not come from the Bible. It's like if I write a letter to my wife, does she get more of me by reading and loving my letter? No. Even if she studies my letter diligently and knows it inside out, she only gets me when she asks for me. Likewise, reading, studying, loving the bible, God's letter to us, does not get us more of God. What gets us more of the Spirit is when we ask for the Spirit.

I don't have the context of J. Piper's quote, but if he meant that just by reading the Bible we can experience God's Spirit than what Evangelical wrote seems right. I don't think J. Piper is so naive to assume that. Reading is the first step. Praying is the second. If we have these two steps I don't see why we can't experience God's Spirit.

Ohio · 10-22-2016, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by testallthings

Evangelical wrote:

There is a quote on the main page of this site that I just want to address:

The Spirit inspired the Word and therefore He goes where the Word goes.
The more of God's Word you know and love, the more of God's Spirit you will experience. ~ John Piper.

Many individuals, ministries, churches believe this, that by knowing, loving and teaching the Word of God, that we are becoming more filled with the Spirit.

It sounds logical, the Spirit inspired the Bible, therefore read the Bible and you get the Spirit! Read the Bible more and you get more Spirit! But it is correct? No, and it is in fact illogical. The Bible came from the Spirit, but the Spirit does not come from the Bible. It's like if I write a letter to my wife, does she get more of me by reading and loving my letter? No. Even if she studies my letter diligently and knows it inside out, she only gets me when she asks for me. Likewise, reading, studying, loving the bible, God's letter to us, does not get us more of God. What gets us more of the Spirit is when we ask for the Spirit.

I don't have the context of J. Piper's quote, but if he meant that just by reading the Bible we can experience God's Spirit than what Evangelical wrote seems right. I don't think J. Piper is so naive to assume that. Reading is the first step. Praying is the second. If we have these two steps I don't see why we can't experience God's Spirit.

Always take note of the ole switcheroo when reading Evangelical.

Piper speaks of "knowing God's word enables us to receive the Spirit." Evangelical changes "God's word" to the book called the Bible. Obviously, people have read (or "searched" like the Pharisees) the Bible for self-serving interests, and did not receive the Spirit of God.

This is classic Lee.

Lee often warned us about reading the Bible "incorrectly." Why, however, did he not warn us about reading his own books?

JJ · 10-23-2016, 09:33 PM

[QUOTE=testallthings;52148]JJ wrote:

I've been sitting on the sidelines of this topic. 2 Corinthians suggests there is a veil that lies over hearts that can make reading scripture just killing letters that is done away with in Christ as one turns their heart to the Lord to receive the freeing and transforming Spirit while gazing at and reflecting the glory of the Lord.

http://biblehub.com/nasb/2_corinthians/3.htm

I'm always amazed how often it is about who our heart is turned to, and where our eyes are pointed.... the Lord Jesus Christ!

JJ,
I am not going to analyze 2 Corinthians 3 in detail.
2Co 3:12 Having therefore such a hope, we use great boldness of speech,
2Co 3:13 and are not as Moses, who put a veil upon his face, that the children of Israel should not look stedfastly on the end of that which was passing away:
2Co 3:14 but their minds were hardened: for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remaineth, it not being revealed to them that it is done away in Christ.
2Co 3:15 But unto this day, whensoever Moses is read, a veil lieth upon their heart.
2Co 3:16 But whensoever it shall turn to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

Paul was saying that when the Jews (the children of Israel) read Moses (Moses' writing, or the old covenant) there is a veil over their heart. That veil can be removed only when their hearts turn to the Lord.
Moses covered his face with a veil, Paul did not.

2Co 3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of a new covenant; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Paul was comparing the two covenants. The law could not give life.
Rom 7:10 and the commandment, which was unto life, this I found to be unto death:
It is the Spirit that gives life.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus made me free from the law of sin and of death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God, sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 that the ordinance of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

The moment we believed in the Lord Jesus, and His Spirit got into us to regenerate us, if there was a veil ( I say if because Paul is referring to the children of Israel, but let's assume Gentiles had the same veil) it was taken away. Now when we come to the Bible, with an open heart and with prayer, for the purpose of knowing more about God and His will, are we just going to get more knowledge about Him or do we expect to experience more of God, Christ, and the Spirit?

Brother George Mueller (and many other servants of God) read the Bible hundred of times (someone said 200 times), and prayed over the Bible every day of his life. Does anyone believe that if he hadn't spend time in God's Word in the way he did, his life and ministry would have been the same?

Without the Word, there is no knowledge of God. How do we know God loves the world? How do we know we have been saved? How do we know we are children of God? How do we know what God wants? How do we know God listen to prayers?... God and His Word go together. The Word leads us to God and God leads us to His Word. The more we know the Word, the more we will go to God. The more we pray the Word the more we will experience God (or God's Spirit).

I agree with you, Testallthings

Evangelical · 10-23-2016, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by testallthings

Brother George Mueller (and many other servants of God) read the Bible hundred of times (someone said 200 times), and prayed over the Bible every day of his life. Does anyone believe that if he hadn't spend time in God's Word in the way he did, his life and ministry would have been the same?

Without the Word, there is no knowledge of God. How do we know God loves the world? How do we know we have been saved? How do we know we are children of God? How do we know what God wants? How do we know God listen to prayers?... God and His Word go together. The Word leads us to God and God leads us to His Word. The more we know the Word, the more we will go to God. The more we pray the Word the more we will experience God (or God's Spirit).

testallthings, I can show that these claims are false and straight from the influence of Bibliolatry.

It is claimed that Mueller's success was related to how much he read and knew the Bible. Why does it say "spend time in God's Word" and not "spend time in God's presence". Why the emphasis on Mueller's reading and not his prayer? I know why, because these folk are influenced by Bibliolatry.

Would we say Mueller's living and knowledge of God was greater than Abraham's?

I don't think anyone would make that claim.

Now tell me, which Scripture did Abraham use to know God? Absolutely zero, nilch, nada, nothing. What about Noah? Likewise, nothing.

Who do the New Testament authors often refer to as one of the greatest examples of someone who knows God and lives by faith? -Abraham.

So categorically we can say this sort of statement:

"Without the Word, there is no knowledge of God. "

is wrong.

The Bible itself says we can know God without the Bible,

Romans 1:20 "For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse."

Adam and Eve, Cain and Abel, knew God, without any Scripture.
Abraham knew God, without any Scripture.
Moses knew God, without any Scripture.
Many other examples.

All of these examples show that the Bible, came from experience. Moses knew God already before the Law and Old Testament. Jesus came before the New Testament.

All of these examples show that spiritual experience does not come from the Bible.

The only way to know God is by prayer. It is by prayer that we gain the Spirit, is by prayer that we gain salvation. These people who emphasise their bible reading or bible knowledge as the means to their success or knowledge of God, cannot have true knowledge of God unless they pray. Bibliolatry is alive and well.

The Bibliolaters twist "the Bible is God-breathed" around to say "God's-breath comes from the Bible". The Bibliolaters are many of the pastors in the pulpit, the priests holding the mass, they do not accept spiritual experiences and direct revelation from God through prayer, many do not believe in the Spirit. The bible colleges and theological colleges are producers of Bibliolaters, more so than genuine followers of God like Abraham. These Bibliolaters hold many "bible studies" as routine, but pay little attention to prayer.

The main concern of the genuine followers of Christ is prayer, as evidenced by the disciples request for Christ to teach them how to pray, not how to study the Bible. The only way to know God genuinely is by searching, observation, prayer and experience, the same way Noah,Abraham, Moses, and many others knew God.

HERn · 11-03-2016, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evangelical

There is a quote on the main page of this site that I just want to address:
The Spirit inspired the Word and therefore He goes where the Word goes.
The more of God's Word you know and love, the more of God's Spirit you will experience. ~ John Piper...

Silly Evangelical! Straining at knats and swallowing camels. Piper used the word love. I don't know about you but the people I love I talk to and that includes the Lord Jesus. I'll let you be the judge of whether there is a spiritual interaction between me and my Lord when I read, study, pray, and obey His word.

Evangelical · 11-03-2016, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HERn

Silly Evangelical! Straining at knats and swallowing camels. Piper used the word love. I don't know about you but the people I love I talk to and that includes the Lord Jesus. I'll let you be the judge of whether there is a spiritual interaction between me and my Lord when I read, study, pray, and obey His word.

The problem is if we put the emphasis on our bible knowledge and bible study, no matter how much we love it. Loving the Scripture didn't work for the Pharisees.

In any case, it doesn't change the truth of the statement "reading the Bible does not give us the Spirit".

The Scripture teaches only one way to get the Spirit - ask, or hear in faith.

Ohio · 11-04-2016, 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evangelical

The problem is if we put the emphasis on our bible knowledge and bible study, no matter how much we love it. Loving the Scripture didn't work for the Pharisees.

It doesn't seem to be working for you either.

Nell · 11-05-2016, 11:43 PM

Yeah...I hear a lot of sounding brass and tinkling symbols.

Nell

Evangelical · 11-06-2016, 01:04 AM

You are most welcome to share any bible verse you have showing that when we read the Bible we experience the Spirit.

OBW · 11-30-2016, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Igzy

I understand the attraction of generality. Lee once taught generality.

Yes, he did.

But what I recall of it was that if someone came in, we were "general" with them — for a while. But underlying was the presumption that anyone who stayed around would come to our (LRC) understanding of things, or most likely leave.

And that is what they want:

In — in full agreement with the LSM teaching

Out — if unwilling to change to full agreement with the LSM teaching

All those terms, like denomination and division, were either not in the bible (or supported by it) or not in keeping with the way the bible used them. They were hollow justification for openly dividing while maintaining a pseudo-good conscience. And anyone who was steeped in LRC teaching could probably manage that, even if there was still a small burr in the shoe suggesting something was wrong. They got good at defining that as the attack of the enemy.

And it seems as if the main attack of the enemy was to fool them all into thinking that open derision of every other group was what Jesus really wanted.

10-15-2016, 01:50 AM	#1
Evangelical Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 3,965	Reading the Bible does not Give us the Spirit There is a quote on the main page of this site that I just want to address: The Spirit inspired the Word and therefore He goes where the Word goes. The more of God's Word you know and love, the more of God's Spirit you will experience. ~ John Piper. Many individuals, ministries, churches believe this, that by knowing, loving and teaching the Word of God, that we are becoming more filled with the Spirit. It sounds logical, the Spirit inspired the Bible, therefore read the Bible and you get the Spirit! Read the Bible more and you get more Spirit! But it is correct? No, and it is in fact illogical. The Bible came from the Spirit, but the Spirit does not come from the Bible. It's like if I write a letter to my wife, does she get more of me by reading and loving my letter? No. Even if she studies my letter diligently and knows it inside out, she only gets me when she asks for me. Likewise, reading, studying, loving the bible, God's letter to us, does not get us more of God. What gets us more of the Spirit is when we ask for the Spirit. This idea of reading the Bible to get the Spirit is false for a few more reasons. 1. The Pharisees were diligent and loved the Scriptures and knew them very well, yet Jesus said: John 5:39 "You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me,". Jesus stated right there that knowledge of the Scriptures does not give eternal life, and since the Spirit is the Spirit of (eternal) life, we can conclude that knowledge of the Scriptures does not give the Spirit. 2. The Bible itself says that scripture's purpose is to make us wise, not give us the Spirit: 2 Tim 3:15 "From infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus." 3. In the Bible, believers received the Spirit the moment they heard the gospel and believed, not read the Bible (Acts 10:44-47) and Acts 19:2 "and asked them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" They answered, "No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit."" 4. When the apostle Paul had his conversion experience, he was blinded, obviously he was not reading the Scripture to get the Spirit. 5. Jesus breathed His Spirit on the disciples and did not tell them to read the Scriptures to get the Spirit. 6. When the disciples were waiting for the outpouring of the Spirit, they were not reading their Bibles fervently to get filled with the Spirit, but waiting as the Lord told them to (Acts 2). 7. A large percentage of the world's Christians do not have or have access to the Bible in their own language. Does it mean they cannot be filled with the Spirit? Of course not. The Christians who arguably need the Spirit the most (in persecuted or underground churches) may not even have a bible! Does this mean they are helpless? Of course not. 8. We find no example in the New Testament of anyone reading their Scriptures to get the Holy Spirit or be filled with the Holy Spirit. The only true and sure fire way to be filled with the Spirit is to ask! Luke 11:13 "If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!""

10-15-2016, 05:53 AM	#2
Ohio Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Greater Ohio Posts: 13,693	Re: Reading the Bible does not Give us the Spirit You did a slick "bait amd switch" here. Piper said, "The more of God's Word you know and love, the more of God's Spirit you will experience." You changed this to, "reading the Bible does not give us the Spirit." Classic Lee. __________________ Ohio's motto is: With God all things are possible!. Keeping all my posts short, quick, living, and to the point!

10-19-2016, 12:13 AM	#6
Evangelical Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 3,965	Re: Reading the Bible does not Give us the Spirit John F. MacArthur, Piper and others are among a number of Christian teachers and authors who are confused on this matter and despite being heralded as great Christian teachers, are teaching something not found in the Bible at all. The Spirit inspired the Bible but they flip it around and say that the Spirit depends on the Bible , or that the Bible "inspires" or results in the Spirit. They equate the Spirit with what we do, and that is the mistake. Anything that says the Spirit depends upon the Bible or us is to say that the Spirit is not God. This kind of teaching is also prevalent in the denominations that supposedly believe in the Spirit and the spiritual gifts. For example, when a tv-evangelist waves his hands, the Spirit falls on people and they fall down. Churches claim the Spirit comes down to them when the band starts playing during the worship time. Associating the Spirit with any sort of religious activity is a mistake. When the Spirit first fell upon the believers at Pentecost, all they did was wait for it. Nothing they did caused the Spirit to fall. When Jesus breathed the Spirit on the disciples, they did nothing to make that happen. The proper understanding of the Spirit is to realize that the Spirit may fall upon the saint or the sinner alike, and it has nothing particularly to do with how much of the Bible we know, or how obedience we've been. There is a number of incorrect teachings found in MacArthur 2-in-1: 2 Truth-Filled Books in 1 Volume to Strengthen Your Faith By John F. MacArthur, some quote John Piper. These teachings include: "The Spirit goes where the Word goes" - wrong, the bible says - the Spirit goes wherever He likes, like the wind (John 3:8). "Churches can't be Spirit-led unless they are Word fed" (Bob Kauflin) - it is wrong to equate the Spirit's leading with the amount of biblical knowledge. "The more of God's Word you know and love, the more of God's Spirit you will experience." - Piper. It doesn't matter whether it is receiving, being filled or experiencing the Spirit, none of it depends upon reading the Bible or even obeying the Bible. The Bible says the Spirit is received by grace and it is a gift. If it depended upon us it would not be a gift. Galatians 3:2 says "Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? " Did we receive the Spirit by our bible reading or obedience to the bible? (law), no. There is no verse or example in the Bible of anyone being filled, experiencing, or receiving the Spirit because of reading, studying, or applying the Bible. It is possible that what people claim to experience as the "Spirit" when they follow or obey the Bible is just an appeasement or satisfaction of their own religious conscience. A person may experience the "Spirit" when they do any sort of religious activity. Just as a Catholic may experience the "Spirit" as they bow to the statue of the virgin Mary, a protestant or an evangelical may experience a similar "religious hot flush" when they devote themselves to reading the Bible. In the Pentecostal denominations, what they experience when the "Spirit comes" is likewise a heightened sense of zeal, emotion or feeling, aroused by the atmosphere and the particular occasion. It is really no different to the feelings and experiences that a person of any religion might experience they are in a large gathering and devoted to some particular religious cause.

10-19-2016, 12:07 AM	#8
Evangelical Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 3,965	Re: Reading the Bible does not Give us the Spirit Reading the Scriptures does not give life, is the same as saying reading the Scriptures does not give the Spirit. There is no example anywhere in the Bible of someone receiving the Spirit by reading the Scripture. The statistics of Christians not having a bible or one in a language they can read or understand is found at www.bibleleague.org

10-23-2016, 04:23 AM	#11
Evangelical Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 3,965	The Ethiopian eunuch If the Scripture was that important for receiving the Spirit we should find at least one example. The fact is we cannot. Does knowing and loving the Bible automatically give us the Spirit? Not according to the Ethiopian eunuch (Acts 8:27). The eunuch was a worshiper of God, and obviously loved reading the Scripture. Yet it was not sufficient to grant him the Spirit. The eunuch is another example of Piper not knowing the Bible. Piper's claim that loving the Bible gives us the Spirit is false. According to Piper, more Spirit is a result of knowing and loving God's Word more. But it is possible for an illiterate person to have more Spirit than a highly qualified theologian, as Simon Peter might testify. Piper's doctrine is bordering on bibliolatry which is prevalent in Christianity. In Christianity and society today, the Bible is often used as a tool of "superstition and magic" and for conjuring religious experiences, rather than for it's true intended purpose.

10-19-2016, 05:00 PM	#14
least Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 174	Re: Reading the Bible does not Give us the Spirit John 6: 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

10-20-2016, 12:49 AM	#17
least Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 174	Re: Reading the Bible does not Give us the Spirit By Evangelical: Reading the Bible does not Give us the Spirit. http://www.prayreading.org/quotes/quotes_chapter.html "Rather, we pray by means of the Word of God and the Spirit of God to take in God Himself, who is in His words and in His Spirit. In this way, His words in us not only become a supply to us, but they also convict and teach us from deep within. This is the proper way to read the Lord's Word. May the Lord give us grace and strength and lead us to practice this every day." Quoted from webpage titled: The following is Chapter 6 from A Living of Mutual Abiding with the Lord in Spirit by Witness Lee, published by Living Stream Ministry, 2000 Evangelical listen to your master. If reading the bible does not give you the Spirit, follow WL advice to the 'proper' way to read the Lord's Word. May the Lord give you grace and strength and lead you to practice this every day. (Thus, to qualify a 'proper' wl, express WL properly. )

10-20-2016, 11:09 PM	#18
JJ Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 1,006	Re: Reading the Bible does not Give us the Spirit I've been sitting on the sidelines of this topic. 2 Corinthians suggests there is a veil that lies over hearts that can make reading scripture just killing letters that is done away with in Christ as one turns their heart to the Lord to receive the freeing and transforming Spirit while gazing at and reflecting the glory of the Lord. http://biblehub.com/nasb/2_corinthians/3.htm I'm always amazed how often it is about who our heart is turned to, and where our eyes are pointed.... the Lord Jesus Christ! __________________ And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. (John 1:14 NASB)

10-22-2016, 02:21 AM	#19
testallthings Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 297	Re: Reading the Bible does not Give us the Spirit JJ wrote: I've been sitting on the sidelines of this topic. 2 Corinthians suggests there is a veil that lies over hearts that can make reading scripture just killing letters that is done away with in Christ as one turns their heart to the Lord to receive the freeing and transforming Spirit while gazing at and reflecting the glory of the Lord. http://biblehub.com/nasb/2_corinthians/3.htm I'm always amazed how often it is about who our heart is turned to, and where our eyes are pointed.... the Lord Jesus Christ! JJ, I am not going to analyze 2 Corinthians 3 in detail. 2Co 3:12 Having therefore such a hope, we use great boldness of speech, 2Co 3:13 and are not as Moses, who put a veil upon his face, that the children of Israel should not look stedfastly on the end of that which was passing away: 2Co 3:14 but their minds were hardened: for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remaineth, it not being revealed to them that it is done away in Christ. 2Co 3:15 But unto this day, whensoever Moses is read, a veil lieth upon their heart. 2Co 3:16 But whensoever it shall turn to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Paul was saying that when the Jews (the children of Israel) read Moses (Moses' writing, or the old covenant) there is a veil over their heart. That veil can be removed only when their hearts turn to the Lord. Moses covered his face with a veil, Paul did not. 2Co 3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of a new covenant; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. Paul was comparing the two covenants. The law could not give life. Rom 7:10 and the commandment, which was unto life, this I found to be unto death: It is the Spirit that gives life. Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus made me free from the law of sin and of death. Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God, sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: Rom 8:4 that the ordinance of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. The moment we believed in the Lord Jesus, and His Spirit got into us to regenerate us, if there was a veil ( I say if because Paul is referring to the children of Israel, but let's assume Gentiles had the same veil) it was taken away. Now when we come to the Bible, with an open heart and with prayer, for the purpose of knowing more about God and His will, are we just going to get more knowledge about Him or do we expect to experience more of God, Christ, and the Spirit? Brother George Mueller (and many other servants of God) read the Bible hundred of times (someone said 200 times), and prayed over the Bible every day of his life. Does anyone believe that if he hadn't spend time in God's Word in the way he did, his life and ministry would have been the same? Without the Word, there is no knowledge of God. How do we know God loves the world? How do we know we have been saved? How do we know we are children of God? How do we know what God wants? How do we know God listen to prayers?... God and His Word go together. The Word leads us to God and God leads us to His Word. The more we know the Word, the more we will go to God. The more we pray the Word the more we will experience God (or God's Spirit). Evangelical wrote: There is a quote on the main page of this site that I just want to address: The Spirit inspired the Word and therefore He goes where the Word goes. The more of God's Word you know and love, the more of God's Spirit you will experience. ~ John Piper. Many individuals, ministries, churches believe this, that by knowing, loving and teaching the Word of God, that we are becoming more filled with the Spirit. It sounds logical, the Spirit inspired the Bible, therefore read the Bible and you get the Spirit! Read the Bible more and you get more Spirit! But it is correct? No, and it is in fact illogical. The Bible came from the Spirit, but the Spirit does not come from the Bible. It's like if I write a letter to my wife, does she get more of me by reading and loving my letter? No. Even if she studies my letter diligently and knows it inside out, she only gets me when she asks for me. Likewise, reading, studying, loving the bible, God's letter to us, does not get us more of God. What gets us more of the Spirit is when we ask for the Spirit. I don't have the context of J. Piper's quote, but if he meant that just by reading the Bible we can experience God's Spirit than what Evangelical wrote seems right. I don't think J. Piper is so naive to assume that. Reading is the first step. Praying is the second. If we have these two steps I don't see why we can't experience God's Spirit. __________________ TEST ALL THINGS, KEEP THE GOOD

10-23-2016, 09:33 PM	#21
JJ Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 1,006	Re: Reading the Bible does not Give us the Spirit [QUOTE=testallthings;52148]JJ wrote: I've been sitting on the sidelines of this topic. 2 Corinthians suggests there is a veil that lies over hearts that can make reading scripture just killing letters that is done away with in Christ as one turns their heart to the Lord to receive the freeing and transforming Spirit while gazing at and reflecting the glory of the Lord. http://biblehub.com/nasb/2_corinthians/3.htm I'm always amazed how often it is about who our heart is turned to, and where our eyes are pointed.... the Lord Jesus Christ! JJ, I am not going to analyze 2 Corinthians 3 in detail. 2Co 3:12 Having therefore such a hope, we use great boldness of speech, 2Co 3:13 and are not as Moses, who put a veil upon his face, that the children of Israel should not look stedfastly on the end of that which was passing away: 2Co 3:14 but their minds were hardened: for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remaineth, it not being revealed to them that it is done away in Christ. 2Co 3:15 But unto this day, whensoever Moses is read, a veil lieth upon their heart. 2Co 3:16 But whensoever it shall turn to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Paul was saying that when the Jews (the children of Israel) read Moses (Moses' writing, or the old covenant) there is a veil over their heart. That veil can be removed only when their hearts turn to the Lord. Moses covered his face with a veil, Paul did not. 2Co 3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of a new covenant; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. Paul was comparing the two covenants. The law could not give life. Rom 7:10 and the commandment, which was unto life, this I found to be unto death: It is the Spirit that gives life. Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus made me free from the law of sin and of death. Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God, sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: Rom 8:4 that the ordinance of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. The moment we believed in the Lord Jesus, and His Spirit got into us to regenerate us, if there was a veil ( I say if because Paul is referring to the children of Israel, but let's assume Gentiles had the same veil) it was taken away. Now when we come to the Bible, with an open heart and with prayer, for the purpose of knowing more about God and His will, are we just going to get more knowledge about Him or do we expect to experience more of God, Christ, and the Spirit? Brother George Mueller (and many other servants of God) read the Bible hundred of times (someone said 200 times), and prayed over the Bible every day of his life. Does anyone believe that if he hadn't spend time in God's Word in the way he did, his life and ministry would have been the same? Without the Word, there is no knowledge of God. How do we know God loves the world? How do we know we have been saved? How do we know we are children of God? How do we know what God wants? How do we know God listen to prayers?... God and His Word go together. The Word leads us to God and God leads us to His Word. The more we know the Word, the more we will go to God. The more we pray the Word the more we will experience God (or God's Spirit). I agree with you, Testallthings __________________ And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. (John 1:14 NASB)

11-05-2016, 11:43 PM	#26
Nell Admin/Moderator Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 2,100	Re: Reading the Bible does not Give us the Spirit Yeah...I hear a lot of sounding brass and tinkling symbols. Nell

11-06-2016, 01:04 AM	#27
Evangelical Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 3,965	Re: Reading the Bible does not Give us the Spirit You are most welcome to share any bible verse you have showing that when we read the Bible we experience the Spirit.