Christianity in China in the 21st Century

[aron]

I read a recent report that China will eventually surpass the U.S. in its Christian population.

http://www.slate.com/bigideas/what-i...g-yang-opinion

But my question is: what does this Christianity look like in China?

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Witness Lee denied that God was three persons. He considered the teaching that God is three persons to border on “tritheism.” Witness Lee preferred the term “Triune God” to the Term “Trinity” .He believed that the Father, the Son and the Spirit, though “distinct,” were one person. He believed that Jesus was the “Triune God mingled with man.” After Jesus’ death and resurrection, Jesus became the Spirit. Witness Lee always denied that his teaching was modalism (the heresy that asserts that God merely acted in different modes at different times and denies the three persons of the Godhead). Nevertheless, if it is not modalism it comes pretty close to it.

In China, Witness Lee’s quasi-modalistic teachings concerning the Trinity evolved into full-blown modalism. Witness Lee’s teachings underwent a number of mutations and transformations before becoming the Eastern Lightning doctrine that God was called “Jehovah” in the Old Testament, “Jesus” in the Age of Grace and now the “Almighty God” in the present Kingdom Age.

Leaving the Holy Spirit out of things for a minute, a pure common sense objection to complete modalism is that any person—believer or unbeliever—reading the New Testament gospels would see that Jesus and the Father are represented as two different persons. No one could honestly see them as the same entity. Jesus says he is sent by the Father (e.g., John 5:37) and he prays to the Father (e.g., John 17) and always speaks of the Father as though he is a separate person.

How does Eastern Lightning answer this objection? They say that when Jesus speaks of the Father he is merely speaking from a human perspective. When he prays to the Father, he does so from the perspective of a created being:……

This is remarkably similar to Witness Lee’s argument concerning the same issue. In Concerning the Triune God, Witness Lee addresses the question in the following way:

. . . if you say the Son is the Father, then how could the Son pray to the Father? . . . The Lord of hosts is both the Sender and the One sent. Since the Lord of hosts is both the Sender and the Sent One, why could it not be that the Lord is the Son who prays and also the Father who listens to the praying? The Father who listens to the praying is the Son who prays; and the Son who prays is also the Father who listens to the prayer. (Witness Lee, Concerning the Triune God—The Father, the Son and the Spirit [Anaheim, CA: Living Stream Ministry, 1976?], under “The Son Who Prays Is the Father Who Listens,”)This is clearly at variance with any kind of normal reading of the New Testament accounts.

Witness Lee and the Shouters

In 1967 Witness Lee started the “Calling Out” (or “Shouting”) Movement . He said that the Age of the Word had ended, and now it was the Age of the Spirit. Witness Lee taught that believers must “eat the Lord” (吃主) and the way to do this was by calling out or shouting his name . Calling out his name was the way to release the Spirit in this Age of the Spirit.

After Deng Xiaoping’s “opening up” of China in 1979, many foreigners visited China. At some point between 1978 and the early 1980’s, Witness Lee sent many followers from overseas to Wenzhou in Fujian Province to contact believers from Watchman Nee’s Local Church movement. They reportedly brought with them large amounts of Witness Lee’s books, pamphlets and recordings. Within a few short years, their influence had spread throughout Zhejiang, Fujian, Henan, Guangdong and other places. During their meetings they would shout “Jesus is Lord!” in an attempt to practice Witness Lee’s teaching about calling out the Lord’s name. This is how they got the nickname “Shouters” .

The “Shouters” and the “Local Churches”
The term “Shouters” is not a precise term. It is unfortunately the case that many true believers have been labeled as Shouters even when they are not Shouters. Many people who are called “Shouters” may be true believers. Not all Shouters accept Witness Lee’s teachings, and not all followers of Witness Lee are Shouters. In particular, many Local Churches that follow Watchman Nee and Witness Lee are law-abiding groups that reject the term “Shouters.”

Some Shouters and the Trinity
Some (not all) Shouters took Witness Lee’s strange doctrine of the Trinity one step further and became complete modalists. These groups held that the Father became the Son and was no longer the Father; the Son became the Spirit and was no longer the Son. That is, the Father, the Son and the Spirit are modes by which God manifests himself in different eras. They are not distinct persons.

The “Lord Changshou” sect
One branch of the Shouters held Witness Lee in such high esteem that they began to regard his authority and status as greater than Christ’s. They called Witness Lee, “Lord Changshou” (Changshou is Witness Lee’s given name). This, of course, goes far beyond the actual teaching of Witness Lee, who never proposed to set himself above Christ.

It has been reported that in 1995 this branch of the Shouters distributed 15 million tracts in 20 major cities in China declaring that Witness Lee was the living Christ and that he would become the new king of the universe. One can easily see how this cult became a pattern for Eastern Lightning.

This “Lord Changshou” sect believes that you must call upon the Lord Changshou to be saved; that Jesus is someone of the past and will not return to save the world; and that Lord Changshou will return to save the world.

http://www.facts.org.cn/ebook/201310...11_1137654.htm

This vague report, that the Lord Changshou Shouters distributed 15 million tracts in China in 20 major cities, is now 20 years old. What are they like now, and how many? Certainly when uses the term "Christianity" in China one must have a broader net. I daresay there is a LOT of stuff going on that is nothing like Christianity we know, or have known, in the West.

Isolation, zeal and ignorance are breeding what?

[aron]

Originally Posted by aron

Certainly when uses the term "Christianity" in China one must have a broader net. I daresay there is a LOT of stuff going on that is nothing like Christianity we know, or have known, in the West.

The one thing I know is that at a meeting, probably early '90s but I really don't remember, WL said that there were several tens of millions of Shouters in China. And he said this after going through a roll call of LC members in different areas of the world. So this was the triumphant climax of "his" church. And the audience clearly took it as such.

Ten years later, the LSM says that they have no connection, either formal or informal, with the Shouters. What happened? Did things spin out of control? Did WL assume that he had control, when he never did?

Surely we know that A) he set the table by pushing his doctrines, literature, and organization, in the Mainland; and B) his organization later disavowed any connection whatsoever. Perhaps this was his usual m.o. of simply pretending to have nothing to do with any fiasco that followed his efforts. Certainly we saw that in the LC.

Also we know that WL's theology, which already strained at the bounds of orthodoxy, went completely bonkers when released on the mainland. Now the LSM would say that this is coincidental. It's like blaming Jesus Christ for Mormonism, they'd say; any resemblance is purely coincidental. Perhaps. But the resemblance here is almost too coincidental. I mean the fruit didn't need to fall too far from the parent tree, in this case, to become over-the-edge crazy.

[aron]

Originally Posted by aron

I read a recent report that China will eventually surpass the U.S. in its Christian population.

http://www.slate.com/bigideas/what-i...g-yang-opinion

But my question is: what does this Christianity look like in China?

http://ojs.globalmissiology.org/inde...File/1217/2821

A dissertation on the Christian gospel seen through the lens of Chinese culture.

[Freedom]

I think this is an interesting subject, and I must say that I wish to better understand what non-LC Chinese Christianity looks like. Unfortunately, this curiosity is partially rooted in the notion that they push in the LC, that is, that somehow all non-government sanctioned Christians in China are LC affiliated. An absurd notion, no doubt, but speaking for myself, the thought haunts me nonetheless. To think that the LC has had or could have any considerable amount of influence is frightening.

So what this leads to is concern over the possibility that LC Christians in a country which has been somewhat of a LC stronghold would possibly grow in number. Questions arise. What would be their influence? Would this increase the credibility of the LC? Difficult things to foresee.

I think back to the 2009 CRI journal. They insinuated that all of us nonchalant, latte-sipping American Christians (note my sarcasm) need to learn from the persecuted LCers in China. I don’t say this to make light of anyone’s suffering. But for anyone to think that the suffering of Christians abroad is something that we need to ‘import’ here is preposterous. We have our own unique struggles and obstacles to overcome as Western Christians. The magnitude of our trials and tribulations vary, but that doesn't mean that situation A is more meaningful than situation B. It doesn’t work that way. Oh and for the record, Western Christianity is very much under attack right now in case the CRI thought differently.

So what this brings me to is what I feel to be an important point. From a cultural perspective, Christianity as a (dare I say?) cultural institution, is non-transferable. We Americans practice Christianity as it was born and raised in a particular political setting. Nothing wrong with that, and the political foundations don’t detract from the reality of what we believe. In China there is something completely different. One form is not better than the other.

We are commissioned to preach the gospel. Obviously, this necessitates overcoming some cross-cultural barriers. There are plenty of examples of how this has been a problem among Christians. Missionaries haven’t always got things right. But the objective should never be to either attempt to ‘export’ or ‘import’ something where it doesn’t belong. I have faith that Christians will get it right sooner or later. But this is where groups like the LC have gone so wrong. Instead of spreading the gospel, WL’s goal was to export a model that had been formulated in China. Chinese Christianity was born and raised in a culture a world apart (both figuratively and literally) from Western Christianity. The LC cross-cultural experiment happened and it didn’t work. So the hypothesis can be thrown out. Unfortunately it hasn’t, and the LC continues to wistfully hope for some unprecedented influence rooted in an exported model of Christianity from afar. This is why I am less and less ‘afraid’ of the LC gaining any undue influence. It simply won’t happen.

What will the rise in the population of Chinese Christians bring? I don’t know. It should be positive hopefully. What I do know is this: the LC is a movement whose days are numbered. It might not disappear during my lifetime, but eventually it will be seen for what it really is - a culturally grounded movement. Even China will eventually change with respect to their politics and leaders, hopefully for the better. It will be, and may already be so that Nee’s model is already irrelevant in 21st century China.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Freedom

So what this leads to is concern over the possibility that LC Christians in a country which has been somewhat of a LC stronghold would possibly grow in number. Questions arise. What would be their influence? Would this increase the credibility of the LC? Difficult things to foresee.

I think credibility is a good topic. WL certainly liked the idea that several tens of millions of Christians were under his wing. His pleasure was evident as he announced the figures. Suddenly the LC wasn't a fringe group but a real player on the scene.

And why is credibility so important? Namely, for recruiting. If the church has a good name, then more will turn in, versus turning away.

Eventually, the mainland Shouters were completely dissociated by LSM. Why? Was it because of things getting weird, like worshipping WL as God incarnate? How big was/is the Lord Changshou sect? How much influence?

Or was it to protect people in the Mainland from persecution? I remember where a couple of people got caught with something like 30,000 LSM Bibles. The LSM denied any knowledge. Like they sell 30,000 Bibles for someone's birthday party, or something? Doesn't seem like their blatant denial was to protect the guy on the ground in China. Quite the opposite. Too bad for him.

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I kind of thought of this thread as a companion to the "Asian mind and the Western mind" thread. 1. What has been happening on the ground?

All I know is that there is a report that the Lord Changshou ("Witness Lee is Lord") sect of the Shouters supposedly gave out 15 million tracts in 1995. That WL proudly claimed the Shouters, then later his followers disavowed them completely (I also know that at one point he complained that people were trying to make him God). That there was a lot of sustained activity, but now nobody is talking. And that's about it. The Bamboo Curtain has seemingly closed.

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The other thing worth mentioning is 2. How does what is happening on the ground reflect the various cultural variables at play? Like how the Shouters and EL take the "dispensations" of the Brethren and run with it. Supposedly WL told the mainland Shouters that the Age of the Word was over, and now it was the Age of the Spirit. You can see this idea that it is a new day, with new rules. So Leadership can take from the Bible whatever rules seem fit for this new age and new day. The rest are discarded as from an old dispensation. "Oh, that's from the law. We don't care about the law. We are under grace". Or whatever it is you want to ignore.

If you think that I'm being overboard, I remember hearing when WL passed that it was now the Age of Small Potatoes. No more Age of Spiritual Giants. This was spoken from the Blendeds, from the podium. What biblical reference was given to support this idea? None. It was just convenient for the current Leadership to announce that the rules had changed.

So when the EL Leadership says that the age of the Bible is over, and now God is speaking thru a college drop-out, it really isn't too far off the mark of WL. And both instances are arguably manifestations of a particular cultural imperative.

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by aron

I think credibility is a good topic. WL certainly liked the idea that several tens of millions of Christians were under his wing. His pleasure was evident as he announced the figures. Suddenly the LC wasn't a fringe group but a real player on the scene.

Eventually, the mainland Shouters were completely dissociated by LSM. Why? Was it because of things getting weird, like worshipping WL as God incarnate? How big was/is the Lord Changshou sect? How much influence?

Credibility is interesting because had LC members in China not been so extreme, that would have been by far, the best card that Lee was holding. Even though the supposed millions of LCers in China were still used as bragging rights over the years, that has gradually stopped. Why? It's related to what has been mentioned. The Shouters are an extremist group in China that have spawned other groups like the EL.

It would be a publicity nightmare to claim credit for the Shouters as Lee had once done, and LC leaders know that. LC leaders here want to disavow any linkages from an official level. Even though I have no doubt that leaders are in contact with LCers there, everything is now unofficial. What has essentially happened is something that had the greatest potential to be a point of credibility to the LC has instead become something that must be swept under the rug. The true inner workings of this China and U.S. LC linkage is only accessible to those "in the know." It's ironic indeed, but probably for the better.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Freedom

Credibility is interesting because had LC members in China not been so extreme, that would have been by far, the best card that Lee was holding.

And why did the LC in China become so extreme, and unbalanced? Was this coincidence? I think not - I think WL stressed novelty, so much so that in places where orthodoxy wasn't clearly established it was simply ignored, and his followers went deep into heterodoxy. Had WL been more respectful of the "low gospel" - you know the stuff Christians have been preaching for 2,000 years - perhaps the effort might have been saved. I believe that by pushing his supposedly "high peak" theology onto a society with little solid base in Christian fundamentals, and with its own cultural prerogatives, it got a life of its own.

All of this is easy to see in hindsight, of course; it always is. Who could have known? Still, it shows the particular fruit of WL's particular gospel, just as much as the recognized groups elsewhere in the world, and as much as the "rebel" GLA and Brasilian off-shoots. They're all following WL's teachings and example.

Originally Posted by Freedom

Even though the supposed millions of LCers in China were still used as bragging rights over the years, that has gradually stopped. Why? It's related to what has been mentioned. The Shouters are an extremist group in China that have spawned other groups like the EL.

It would be a publicity nightmare to claim credit for the Shouters as Lee had once done, and LC leaders know that. LC leaders here want to disavow any linkages from an official level. . . What has essentially happened is something that had the greatest potential to be a point of credibility to the LC has instead become something that must be swept under the rug. .

Suppose the official WL biography read, "God's humble bondslave, whose efforts resulted in the creation of hundreds of churches worldwide, with tens of thousands of Christian believers whose lives have been spiritually deepened, and whose walk enriched, as well as several million in China who worship him as God incarnate." That last clause doesn't really sit so well, but guess what? It's apparently just as true as the part about hundreds of churches worldwide.

[aron]

Originally Posted by aron

now nobody is talking. And that's about it. The Bamboo Curtain has seemingly closed.

I do want to express my apologies if I seem disrespectful of other cultures and peoples. Sometimes I like a turn of phrase without considering how it may read, to others.

Originally Posted by aron

WL told the mainland Shouters that the Age of the Word was over, and now it was the Age of the Spirit. You can see in this idea that it is a new day, with new rules, and a new Top Dog. .

There are strong echoes of the "Age Turners" theme, always popular with WL's troops, in the heterodox LC off-shoots. The theme is, "It's a new day. Meet the new Boss - me". That goes for WN, WL, the Blendeds, TC, DYL, the Lord Changshou Shouters and the EL. Each took the Brethren teaching of different ages and dispensations and personalized, subjectified, even personified it. In turn, each "new" dynasty tried to be complete and entire, with each "new" Leader as both the center and circumference of the world. No one can steal any shade.

Look at TC with his Lieutenants. He never let any of them rise too high. Any who prospered at the work were relocated. Don't let them build too much - they might compete. So he'd knock it down, rather than let anyone else succeed. Same thing with WL and his various "moves" and "flows". The MR fiasco is Exhibit A. Whipping up turmoil, always keeping people off balance. Don't let anyone get too established. That way, the only one able to be solidly established was him and his ministry.

Should we have any doubt that this isn't also happening on mainland China among those who took WL's ministry as their chosen vehicle? Perhaps even on scales nearly unimaginable to us on the outside?