Trapped... Help?

[Unsure]

Hello,

My name is Vincent. For all of the seventeen years of my life, I have been raised in the Lord's Recovery. I was surrounded by people immersed in the teachings of Witness Lee before I could walk, and had them drilled into my head ever since I was baptized five years ago. Up until about a year prior, I had accepted the Recovery as the highest way and dreamed of being an overcomer in the way Lee had described it.

Now? I. Want. Out.

And I want nothing to do with its members ever again.

However, I am currently ill-equipped to leave the flock of Witness Lee behind (The earliest I can even dream of saying goodbye to the LC is when I get into University next year... Which would involve a lot of loans). As such, unless a miracle occurs and I somehow move out of the house, I am stuck with my fanatically LC-loyal mother for at least 365 days (my father... I'm not sure where he stands anymore. He stopped going to the Sunday meetings five years ago and has been having a mid-life crisis recently). As such, I have been pretending to drink the Kool-Aid like a good little boy, all the while resisting the urge to projectile vomiting it in the face of the serving one feeding me it, smashing the bottle, and flipping the table being used to serve it (to use a... Questionably phrased metaphor). In the meanwhile, I have been collecting information on the LC's past (things like Daystar, the Lee family, etc) but that only really serves to help my case when the time I can actually leave arises. Before that, all I can do is bide my time...

But having struggled with controlling my anger all my life, I'm not sure how much longer I can wait before I lash out at the LC and do something very stupid.

Help? What should I do?

[UntoHim]

Unsure,
Bless you for having the courage to come here and share your story. Rest assured you are not alone. There are many brothers and sisters here on the Forum that will be praying for you in this most difficult time. You can also rest assured that you have a Great Shepherd who cares for you, and has NOT left you as an orphan. It may seem that way, but in fact God has given you a Comforter, the Holy Spirit who not only will comfort you, but will guide you into all truth. You also have the "his precious and very great promises" (1 Pet 1:4) which he has provided for us in the living and abiding Word of God.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Unsure,
Bless you for having the courage to come here and share your story. Rest assured you are not alone. There are many brothers and sisters here on the Forum that will be praying for you in this most difficult time. You can also rest assured that you have a Great Shepherd who cares for you, and has NOT left you as an orphan. It may seem that way, but in fact God has given you a Comforter, the Holy Spirit who not only will comfort you, but will guide you into all truth. You also have the "his precious and very great promises" (1 Pet 1:4) which he has provided for us in the living and abiding Word of God.

And brother Vincent, don't for get this. It appears to me that, you not only have all that brother Untohim listed, but, you also have, critical thinking to get you thru. Trust in that too bro. And use it.

Hang in the closet until you figure a way out.

My heart goes out to you. We will be here for you as much as we can provide.

[Cal]

Hey Vincent,

You show a lot of courage and honesty by coming here. Rest assured God is watching over you. He's a big enough God to take care of you. Try not to worry. Bide you time. Start thinking your own thoughts, as an earlier poster implied.

Here's my suggestions:

• Nurture your own personal relationship with God based on simple Christian truths. Keep it simple. Just talk to him and pray. Ask him to help you. Read a non-LCM bible.
  
  
• Don't give up on God. A lot of people who leave the LCM get conscience-stricken and wander away from God. Try to avoid this path. It leads to extended time in the wilderness. Just keep talking to God.
  
  
• Do human things. Have a hobby. Make good, healthy friends. Laugh. Relax. Have fun. Take it a day at time.
  
  
• Think positively. Get some books on positive thinking. I recommend Joyce Meyer. The enemy is going to try to get you down. What you practice thinking about is very key. Get control of your thoughts.
  
  
• Make Christian friends outside the LCM. If possible, join YoungLife or another good high school Christian group. My kids love that kind of thing and it's very healthy.
  
  
• Read other authors. Formulate your own views. The LCM view is warped. There are healthier ways of interpreting the Bible and living the Christian life. Find them.
  
  
• Sounds like you are near leaving home. At some point you are going to have to stand up to your parents and tell them how you want to live your life. It will go over a lot easier if they don't just see you going into "the world," but realize you still love Jesus, you just want to do things another way.
  
  
• Pray every day. Keep talking to God. Stay positive and patient. Don't be angry, be determined.

We'll be praying for you. Peace to you.

[UntoHim]

Originally Posted by Igzy

Don't give up on God. A lot of people who leave the LCM get conscience-stricken and wander away from God. Try to avoid this path. It leads to extended time in the wilderness. Just keep talking to God.

Excellent advise! I've heard it said that "the Bible is God talking to us and prayer is us talking to God." This is very simple but very profound. You may want to try to read the Bible without "pray-reading". Try getting alone in a quiet place without any distractions so that you can calm your heart and mind. I think you will find that this will help you to contemplate and meditate upon the Word, and eventually you WILL find God talking to you through His Word. "Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light to my path"(Psalm 119:105)

The Psalms are an excellent source for words you can pray back to God. Try praying without "calling on the Lord" (repeating over and over "oh Lord Jesus")
I'm not saying there is anything inherently wrong with calling out the words oh Lord Jesus, however, in my many years of experience and observation, calling on the Lord can become very "mechanical". After all, would you talk to a close personal friend or relative that way? God expects and even longs for us to be genuine with Him! He love you JUST AS YOU ARE, with all your faults, shortcomings and sins. JUST TALK TO HIM! He wants to here from YOU, the genuine, open, honest YOU.

As Igzy also mentioned, I would seek some fellowship with other Christians, but there is a lot on your plate already!

"Wise men still seek him".

[JJ]

Unsure, you've been getting a lot of good advice and are getting prayer support here. You've got many who have been through this exit process before here.

As one who exited, I want to add four things:

1. Christ is the head of every man. That means you and me. Take your orders from him.

2. For Freedom, Christ has set us free, only don't use freedom as a covering for evil. Enjoy genuine freedom in Christ. There are many human things to do that are not sinful. Do them in Christ with enjoyment! Drop local church slavery to "the rules of men"! On the other side many have tried the "go nuts into sin" route. That's not freedom, that's just another form of slavery. The Holy Spirit and God's word will be your guide to this exciting life.

3. Prayreading: Drop mechanical repeating of words if that doesn't help you. Praying from the heart to the Lord while reading the Bible and using the inspired Word in your prayer can be very helpful for sure. If that is what you are doing, and Christ is supplying you through it, keep doing it!

4. Calling on the Lord: Drop mechanical repeating of the Lord's Name if that doesn't help you. Genuinely calling on the Lord's name from a pure heart because you want to talk to Him or seek His help can be a great experience. If that is what you are doing, and Jesus is answering you, keep doing it!

The last two practices are based in scripture, but are not "for show" or to force conformity with the group.

Be well my friend.

Vincent,

Suggest telling the Lord exactly how you feel and do that every time you have these thoughts. He will lead you.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Unsure

But having struggled with controlling my anger all my life, I'm not sure how much longer I can wait before I lash out at the LC and do something very stupid.

Help? What should I do?

It's good that you can see your side of the problem. Surely the LC system is full of issues. But what you can control here, is your anger, and your behavior.

So this is a good test for you. Forget about counting the days until you are free. Rather, just tell yourself, "Today I can be free from my anger." Identify all the things that push your buttons, and recognize the peril that they pose to you. They are landmines! Don't step on them.

Today you are young, and dependent upon adults, some (many?) of whom are arguably not 'all there', if you know what I mean. The danger is that if you try to smash the proverbial chains that bind you, you will find new and even worse chains following. So I strongly urge you to resist the desire to lash out.

There is a Person who, for me, personifies peace itself. That person is named Jesus. He could stand in front of Herod, or Pilate, or the Sanhedrin, or the jeering throngs or the mocking Roman soldiers. He faced them all.

"I have stilled and quieted My soul" Psalm 131:2. I believe that only Jesus Christ could truly speak those words. The rest of us struggle in pale imitation. But this is a great opportunity for you to learn to imitate Him. If you try, His Spirit will come alongside you and help you. Your situation looks grim: months and months of "ministry" coming at you, with only University and its massive financial outlays as a possible escape. But fear not: a door will open. You have to learn the secret of stillness. Then the door will open.

Peace to you and God bless you.

[HERn]

Originally Posted by Unsure

Hello,

My name is Vincent. For all of the seventeen years of my life, I have been raised in the Lord's Recovery. I was surrounded by people immersed in the teachings of Witness Lee before I could walk, and had them drilled into my head ever since I was baptized five years ago. Up until about a year prior, I had accepted the Recovery as the highest way and dreamed of being an overcomer in the way Lee had described it.

Now? I. Want. Out.

And I want nothing to do with its members ever again.

However, I am currently ill-equipped to leave the flock of Witness Lee behind (The earliest I can even dream of saying goodbye to the LC is when I get into University next year... Which would involve a lot of loans). As such, unless a miracle occurs and I somehow move out of the house, I am stuck with my fanatically LC-loyal mother for at least 365 days (my father... I'm not sure where he stands anymore. He stopped going to the Sunday meetings five years ago and has been having a mid-life crisis recently). As such, I have been pretending to drink the Kool-Aid like a good little boy, all the while resisting the urge to projectile vomiting it in the face of the serving one feeding me it, smashing the bottle, and flipping the table being used to serve it (to use a... Questionably phrased metaphor). In the meanwhile, I have been collecting information on the LC's past (things like Daystar, the Lee family, etc) but that only really serves to help my case when the time I can actually leave arises. Before that, all I can do is bide my time...

But having struggled with controlling my anger all my life, I'm not sure how much longer I can wait before I lash out at the LC and do something very stupid.

Help? What should I do?

Hi Vincent,
You are very articulate and perceptive young man. I wonder if maybe your dad may have similar feelings but has kept quiet so as not to poison you? It would be good if you had a non-LC Christian friend you could talk to. It would nice if some young ones who left the LC would comment here. I know of one family where one of the parents was a grandchild of WL and all the kids (young adults now) have left the LC. One married a non-LC person and they are attending a large baptist church. Not sure about the others, but they appear to be happy. Before I finally left the LC I had to stop attending meetings for the same reason you mentioned, I would get so upset in some of the meetings that I was afraid I would say something in heated anger. I think bro Freedom would have the best practical advice on living in the recovery but not being of the recovery. I don't know how he does it, I would have blown a gasket by now. I know you mentioned that you might need loans to go to college. If your family has financial needs you should qualify for grants and scholarships that you don't need to pay back. If you are the first person in your family to graduate from college there may be more grants and scholarships available. I've worked in higher education on and off since the 1980s.

I hope that you will find a bible without the LSM footnotes to read. There is a NT version without the footnotes that you could read without calling attention to yourself by your mother seeing you read a non-LSM version. You might find it satisfying to read several chapters at a time of the Gospel of John without the distracting WL footnotes. Maybe the Lord will give you a glimpse into His life as a man on earth? Another thing you might do is when you read ministry material like HWFMR you can ignore the LSM commentary and just focus on the bible verses themselves. If you are "forced" to share something you can share why or how the verse was important to you. I did this kind of thing for a while and sometimes I think the Lord really blessed me and others.

I believe our Lord Jesus Christ wants to be your shepherd during the next year. Open to Him about your feelings and situation and invite Him to come in and be your shepherd. Outwardly things might not change, but He's great at working inward miracles in our lives. Be strong my brother, many are praying.

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by HERn

I think bro Freedom would have the best practical advice on living in the recovery but not being of the recovery. I don't know how he does it, I would have blown a gasket by now.

Vincent,
Props to you for coming forward, that step isn't easy. A lot of good advice has been posted. Realize that the feelings of anger and frustration are just a normal reaction to seeing the LC for what it really is. It is your gut instinct telling you something is wrong.

Everyone has had different experiences in the LC, but having LC family members is never easy. I have parents, siblings and extended family who are/were involved with the LC. A few have left, others haven’t. When I have mentioned even the slightest of LC concerns, the conversation always seemed to erupt into an argument, so I learned to avoid the subject. I have remained in the LC only to remain on good terms with my LC family members.

Your concerns about suppressing anger are valid. I don’t recommend trying to hold it in. For me, when I started feeling constantly angry, I knew there had to be some change in my LC involvement, but I knew that a complete disassociation wasn’t the best course of action for me. What I ended up doing was focusing on what I could change, and that involved significantly withdrawing my LC participation, and not answering so many phone calls or text messages. I went from living and breathing LC 24/7 to attending the Sunday meeting and sitting in the back row. The latter was tolerable for me, it also limited the possibility of anyone labeling me as “negative” (which could have serious repercussions in my family relationships). You might not be able to completely change your situation to what would be ideal, but you can try to find ways to minimize the chances of saying something you would regret.

When I first became disillusioned with the LC, I was so angry and frustrated at certain things, and I really just felt like telling everyone off in the LC and making a grand exit. I eventually realized that wouldn't do any good except to give me some temporary gratification. I realized that it's better to take the high road out, whatever that may be. I know of some in the LC who look up to me. Why not let them eventually see "brother Freedom" as the brother who moved onto something better, rather than the brother was subjected to a “public hanging”?

Finally, realize that you have your whole life ahead of you. Some haven’t been so fortunate, they have spent 40+ years in the LC. Looking at the bigger picture, even if you have to stick around another year, it’s tolerable in the larger scheme of things. Eventually the opportunity to leave will arise. Try to focus on what you want next. Don’t get caught up in what you can’t change.

2 Cor 4:17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, is working for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory

[Unsure]

@everybody: thank you all for the advice given. I'll be sure to keep it in mind.

@HERn: I guess I could have phrased what I meant by the whole loans thing better. My family is actually very well-to-do and assuming relations between me and them stay friendly they would be more than able to finance my education; my concern was more about getting the financial rug pulled out from under me if I made a move too soon (and due to my background, I probably wouldn't qualify for some of the kinds of grants you mentioned)

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Unsure

@everybody: thank you all for the advice given. I'll be sure to keep it in mind.

@HERn: I guess I could have phrased what I meant by the whole loans thing better. My family is actually very well-to-do and assuming relations between me and them stay friendly they would be more than able to finance my education; my concern was more about getting the financial rug pulled out from under me if I made a move too soon (and due to my background, I probably wouldn't qualify for some of the kinds of grants you mentioned)

Hi Vincent,

There's a lot of excellent advice here for you. When I was on my way out, I began to write. I kept a journal and have never stopped writing. I told the Lord exactly how I felt about what was going on inside of me, and what I was seeing. The valuable thing about this is reading back over "then" and comparing to "now". The changes in me and my life were/are amazing. Sometimes I think "who wrote that?" Having a written record of how God made you into the person you were meant to be will be a real blessing to you.

Every day, thank Him for this time in your life that your eyes are being opened. Write what He shows you in your story. In everything give thanks, for this is the will of God for you. This is not easy. It may take you awhile to get to this point. It was pretty much the hardest part for me. It may also be hard for you to read the Bible. If you can, just read it like a book.

Why do you want to leave? Did something happen that caused you to begin to see things differently? Write it down.

Blessings to you, and peace--
Nell

[HERn]

The latter was tolerable for me, it also limited the possibility of anyone labeling me as “negative” (which could have serious repercussions in my family relationships).

This sentence by Freedom was exactly what my brotherinlaw asked my spouse "Was I negative towards the ministry." Wouldn't the best question be "Was I still following the Lord Jesus?" What is it with the LCers and "the ministry"? Is the ministry God, the Lord Jesus, or even the bible? The ministry is the twisted teachings of WL as propagated by the blinded brothers and LSM. if today no one follows Paul, Peter, John, or even Timothy, why would anyone follow WL?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by HERn

The latter was tolerable for me, it also limited the possibility of anyone labeling me as “negative” (which could have serious repercussions in my family relationships).

This sentence by Freedom was exactly what my brotherinlaw asked my spouse "Was I negative towards the ministry." Wouldn't the best question be "Was I still following the Lord Jesus?" What is it with the LCers and "the ministry"? Is the ministry God, the Lord Jesus, or even the bible? The ministry is the twisted teachings of WL as propagated by the blinded brothers and LSM. if today no one follows Paul, Peter, John, or even Timothy, why would anyone follow WL?

Interesting question. Today it seems the answer is undeniably yes.

That perhaps really is the root of the problem, isn't it?

The Lord needs to take an axe to that root.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by HERn

This sentence by Freedom was exactly what my brotherinlaw asked my spouse "Was I negative towards the ministry." Wouldn't the best question be "Was I still following the Lord Jesus?" What is it with the LCers and "the ministry"? Is the ministry God, the Lord Jesus, or even the bible?

We all need to realize the word negative is relative to a certain position. It's not based of facts or truth.
So in the LSM view, when a LSM promoter uses the word negative it is in the context of their viewpoint.

[Amcasci]

In Christ you are already free. "You shall know the truth and the truth shall set your free." The truth is you are redeemed by the blood of Jesus. The truth is the Holy Spirit lives in you through faith in Christ. The truth is you are dearly loved by your Father in heaven. Being in or out of the LCM does not change this. No one can bestow the freedom of Christ on you or take it from you. It is yours in Christ. He will bring you to a better place soon but until then, relish the freedom you have now for in Christ you are as free as free can be. There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Amcasci

relish the freedom you have now for in Christ you are as free as free can be.

Amen Amcasci !!!

[aron]

Originally Posted by Unsure

I have been raised in the Lord's Recovery. I was surrounded by people immersed in the teachings of Witness Lee before I could walk, and had them drilled into my head ever since I was baptized five years ago.

Your main problem is not being in the Lord's Recovery; it is being seventeen. Think about this: if you were raised in the Methodists or Assemblies of God or Southern Baptists, you'd have the same problem: being immersed in a set of thoughts, teachings and practices which you have no way of independently verifying. You were told what was "real" and because you wanted to get along (to get fed & housed, get approval, to belong to something), you went along with the program.

Now you strongly suspect it is just a sham. But wouldn't you have the same predicament in the Roman Catholic Church or the Syrian Orthodox Church or the Islamic faith? You see all these people doing stuff, because supposedly it's the right thing to do. But when you begin to poke at it, you realize that maybe the "reality" which was presented to you was pretty thin indeed.

But the dilemma of being seventeen is that you don't know the alternative. If this is a sham, then what? An easy alternative is to find the current "alternative lifestyle", which is what I did. Booze, drugs, loud angry music. All the adults are stupid. "Don't trust anyone over 30" was the saying when I was coming up. So you have a bunch of young people in a room, doing bong hits or ecstasy or whatever and thinking that they've found the way out.

Which is, of course, a dead end. But what is the alternative, and how to find it? The only answer that I can give you is that if God is real, and you seek Him, you will find the way. Jesus said, "Seek, and you will find", and if you take Him up on this promise, and seek, and you don't find, then that is God's problem, not yours. You did your part - you sought after reality. God failed to keep His end of the deal and let you find something.

So challenge God - ask Him, "If you are real, show me". As Him to show you the way. He can and He will. God bless you in your journey.

Originally Posted by Unsure

But having struggled with controlling my anger all my life, I'm not sure how much longer I can wait before I lash out at the LC and do something very stupid.

One of the things you'll have to overcome in life is anger, another is fear, another is shame, another is greed, and so on. These forces are real and they desire to control your life, and make you their puppet. If you "lash out" as you put it, you've ceded control. You stopped giving the Lord's Recovery program control, and gave these dark forces control instead. Not really an improvement. The way out is narrow, indeed, but there is a way out. It is attached to a name, the name of Jesus. He is the way back home to the Father, not Witness Lee or the supposedly "normal" church of Watchman Nee. Not God's economy or Bibles for America or the Christians on Campus group at your local University. But Jesus Christ, revealed to us in the Bible and in the testimonies of thousands, through the ages. Seek and you will find.

Dear Trapped,

I know I was in the group as a pre teen and teen. You are not a prisoner nor criminal ,you have rights!!!! Report crazy behavior to your school counsellors you do NOT have to attend church meetings, say you have school work or volunteer work or a part time job and that is how you choose to spend your free time!! If any lay a hand on you call the police.

[HERn]

Hi Unsure,

How are you doing? Are you happy?

Best,

HERn

[Unsure]

Originally Posted by HERn

Hi Unsure,

How are you doing? Are you happy?

Best,

HERn

I'm okay, I guess. Surviving would be the best word for my situation.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Unsure

Surviving would be the best word for my situation.

It could be worse. You could be in the Eastern Lightning. Or North Korea, or ISIS-held Syria. Or in a re-education camp in Yemen, or Somalia. So chin up.

Originally Posted by JJ

Drop local church slavery to "the rules of men"! On the other side many have tried the "go nuts into sin" route. That's not freedom, that's just another form of slavery.

This is absolutely key, in my mind. The LC tries to present you with "us or death" kind of choices. Like you can't possibly benefit from any Christian fellowship, so why waste your time & effort? Or, you might as well enjoy the flesh, since you're going into darkness anyway, right?

Those are all lies from the pit of hell. Seek the kingdom and you'll find it. God's light can shine into any situation. Even yours. God's presence ('parousia') can surprise you with joy, no matter where you are.

[HERn]

Originally Posted by Unsure

I'm okay, I guess. Surviving would be the best word for my situation.

Do you have non-LC friends to talk with? Are the elders or "concerned" saints bothering you?

[Unsure]

Originally Posted by HERn

Do you have non-LC friends to talk with? Are the elders or "concerned" saints bothering you?

The saints still don't know. I prefer to keep it that way until I have income. And up until this week, I didn't have too many people that I talked to, but that's probably going to change after this week. I should probably also get back in touch with my best friend; he's a really good person, and IIRC, he's a Mennonite.

@JJ: thanks for the advice
@aron: thanks for reminding me how lucky I am. It could be worse.

[Barnabas]

Originally Posted by Unsure

Hello,

My name is Vincent. For all of the seventeen years of my life, I have been raised in the Lord's Recovery. I was surrounded by people immersed in the teachings of Witness Lee before I could walk, and had them drilled into my head ever since I was baptized five years ago. Up until about a year prior, I had accepted the Recovery as the highest way and dreamed of being an overcomer in the way Lee had described it.

Now? I. Want. Out.

And I want nothing to do with its members ever again.

However, I am currently ill-equipped to leave the flock of Witness Lee behind (The earliest I can even dream of saying goodbye to the LC is when I get into University next year... Which would involve a lot of loans). As such, unless a miracle occurs and I somehow move out of the house, I am stuck with my fanatically LC-loyal mother for at least 365 days (my father... I'm not sure where he stands anymore. He stopped going to the Sunday meetings five years ago and has been having a mid-life crisis recently). As such, I have been pretending to drink the Kool-Aid like a good little boy, all the while resisting the urge to projectile vomiting it in the face of the serving one feeding me it, smashing the bottle, and flipping the table being used to serve it (to use a... Questionably phrased metaphor). In the meanwhile, I have been collecting information on the LC's past (things like Daystar, the Lee family, etc) but that only really serves to help my case when the time I can actually leave arises. Before that, all I can do is bide my time...

But having struggled with controlling my anger all my life, I'm not sure how much longer I can wait before I lash out at the LC and do something very stupid.

Help? What should I do?

The Lord encouraged me with Matthew 23:1-3 The scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do, but do not ye after their woks: for they say, and do not.