Abuse from Christianity toward saints in a local church

[Hope]

I happen to visit the other forum and noticed the thread on shaming was live. It got me to considering my own experiences and I posted the following on the site.

Hello dear posters,

Wandered back to the site today and noticed the thread on shaming. In my experience, I did catch some embarrassing treatment. I did feel shamed and bullied. But what I have taken from various leaders in Christianity is a hundred fold more than anything I experienced or saw in the local churches. It goes all the way back to my days in college. See my history for just a few details. I really tried to be gracious but I could tell some real scandalous stories about treatment handed out to innocent young people by the powers that were.

How about a thread on the abuse and shaming heaped on saints for being in a local church? That is shame that came from those in Christianity and was directed at the innocents in the local churches.

Today I and my wife practice reaching out to believers in any way we may serve, time money prayer etc. Unfortunately, often, there seems to be a Sabbath patrol lurking around. It has been twenty plus years since I saw WL or participated in any LSM church function or read a LSM book. Yet I am regularly called on the carpet for having known anyone there. Are you branded forever and given credit for the worse abuses real or imagined?

Likewise, posters here seem to delight in mocking and shaming any who have a positive word for their time in any local church.
Is there any space for such a discussion? Just wondering.

Hope

[UntoHim]

Originally Posted by Hope

...I did catch some embarrassing treatment. I did feel shamed and bullied. But what I have taken from various leaders in Christianity is a hundred fold more than anything I experienced or saw in the local churches.

See comments below

How about a thread on the abuse and shaming heaped on saints for being in a local church? That is shame that came from those in Christianity and was directed at the innocents in the local churches.

Looks like you started one! No problemo.

It has been twenty plus years since I saw WL or participated in any LSM church function or read a LSM book. Yet I am regularly called on the carpet for having known anyone there. Are you branded forever and given credit for the worse abuses real or imagined?

Called on the carpet by who? Hardly anybody knows anything about Witness Lee or the Local Church. Are you talking about former LC members in your area - If so, why do you care what they think or say? You and your wife apparently have gone on and are serving the Lord in your area, so I don't understand how a few gossipers or busybodies could hinder you in any way.

Likewise, posters here seem to delight in mocking and shaming any who have a positive word for their time in any local church.
Is there any space for such a discussion? Just wondering.

I think you are confusing "mocking and shaming" with back and forth discussions on an internet forum. To be honest with you I think I am giving you credit in saying you are confusing, but you deserve the benefit of the doubt for sure.

Actually I'm the one whose a little confused by your asking "is there any space for such a discussion". What would make you think there wasn't?

[Hope]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

See comments below

Called on the carpet by who? Hardly anybody knows anything about Witness Lee or the Local Church. Are you talking about former LC members in your area - If so, why do you care what they think or say? You and your wife apparently have gone on and are serving the Lord in your area, so I don't understand how a few gossipers or busybodies could hinder you in any way.

Good Morning UntoHim,

I was referring to folks who are in Christianity and had never been in a local church. Yes, you would think you can get clear. No, my wife and I go forward but it does happen.

True, "Hardly anybody knows anything about Witness Lee or the Local Church." But some have read a few things on the web or a book and take the view, better safe than sorry. Thus ole Hope may have some problem and we had better warn off anyone seeking to have fellowship etc.

The abuse from folks in christianity today is not nearly as vicious as what I experienced from Christianity while I was in the church in Dallas for example. The abuse came from leaders or from "would be leaders."

WL would make sweeping allegations against Christianity based on some particular events or persons he may have experienced or heard of. Some in Christianity give sweeping condemnations of folks in a lc or formerly in a lc based on a few events, some real and some imagined.

Having considered my question, it is probably not a topic that would build up others. I fear that folks could make the mistake of taking the behavior of a few in Christianity and build some kind of sweeping characterization of everyone and every individual.

Hope

[aron]

Originally Posted by Hope

Having considered my question, it is probably not a topic that would build up others. I fear that folks could make the mistake of taking the behavior of a few in Christianity and build some kind of sweeping characterization of everyone and every individual.

Given the extreme polarization that's accompanied the LC-related dialogue over the years, it's hard for me to imagine any topic not at risk of eventually degenerating into sweeping characterizations and name-calling.

But given that my motive (I hope) has been not so much an attempt to convince others of the rightness of my position, but rather my feeble attempts to follow my Lord, the results, I believe, are up to Him. I have been encouraged by a few "amens" from the great beyond of Outer Cyber-istan, and that's good enough.

I myself, while a rabid participant, only lasted a short while and never attained "position", and thus was able to slip anonymously back into "christianity" with no questions asked. I am grateful that I have not experienced the rejection you speak of. It is sad that we sometimes don't realize the cleansing power of our Lord, that "forever tainted" doesn't exist in His eyes.

I was very touched that the christian fellowship was able to receive Saul/Paul, who had formerly been persecuting them to the death, on only the recommendation of Ananias and on his(Paul's) own testimony. That was good enough for them. Once their Lord forgave, so did they, immediately and without any lingering rancor. May such a Spirit still prevail upon this land!

[awareness]

Hope:
"Hardly anybody knows anything about Witness Lee or the Local Church." But some have read a few things on the web or a book and take the view, better safe than sorry. Thus ole Hope may have some problem and we had better warn off anyone seeking to have fellowship etc.

Surely this doesn't surprise you bro Hope. If I'm not mistaken you spent decades as a standing leader in the LC and was therefore part and parcel to castigating and making fun of all other Christians, and now when you want to join those Christians you wonder why they're leery of you.

But aren't all of us that left the LC a little strange to others that know something about us and our history? After all we gave our life to a bunch of fanatics that called on the name of the Lord like He's deaf and has a short attention span ; and to a bunch of obsessive-compulsive's that got in groups and shouted scripture verses back and forth at each other like playing a game of hot potato with the Bible.

Face it bro Hope. You did those things. And those that don't think you are strange are either not informed, are being dishonest, or whose judgment is suspect.

Own it brother...cuz you bought it....

I'm not wishing to be hard on your bro. I know what it is to be rejected. After many years in Ft. Lauderdale I moved to Kentucky, where I have family ties all over the place that I'm still coming to know after 5 years.

But still, even with family ties to the area, I'm spotted immediately as different. I've even had people I just met, on more than one occasion, tell me early on that, "You've different." I guess it sticks out like a sore thumb.

In this small town area, if you're not in their "old country boy in group" you are not well received and will find yourself hard up against it.

I get this reaction even before I'm able to speak of the different thoughts and opinions that I hold, that is undeniably different.

Then, it gets worse if I tell someone that I was once in a group that some label as a Christian cult. I learned that the hard way. Now it's too late. The word is out. Now I have to live with that, and live with the realization that some, that I even have family ties too, will no longer have anything to do with me ; that they think I have more than a few screws loose. I'm talking Christians here ; more often than not, very conservative Christians.

Why do I have to own this bro Hope? Because I bought it. That's why. My years in the LC have branded me. It's my Scarlet Letter. And yours too bro Hope. Wear it with humility and after awhile, if you're nice, they will receive you like Paul was received.

But don't expect a free pass. Not after spending years in what many think is a loony bin.

[manna-man]

Act 9:11 And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,

Mat 3:3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

Imagine, The Lord sent him down a road called Straight!


Brother Harold,

I'm reminded of Paul of Tarsus. He was branded for being a killer of the brethren yet God used Him. Don't ask me why but God uses the biggest screw ups to get His message out. So I guess that would include you, me or even the the elders of all the localities if we chose to obey.

Praise The Lord we have a God of second chances!

Don Jr.

[aron]

Originally Posted by awareness

even with family ties to the area, I'm spotted immediately as different. I've even had people I just met, on more than one occasion, tell me early on that, "You've different." I guess it sticks out like a sore thumb...

I get this reaction even before I'm able to speak of the different thoughts and opinions that I hold, that is undeniably different.

Then, it gets worse ...

Well, it could be even worse still. You could be the same as everyone else. That would be the real tragedy!

Instead, you got led on the glittering paths of light, and somehow those paths got turned into fogs of darkness. Through the "rabbit hole" indeed! The trouble is, we know we've been through the rabbit hole, but sometimes we can't tell if we are "in" or "out"...

I love to hear the stories of christians, of their walk with the Lord. Because they are all different, but they all tell the same story. God is merciful, God is good. Etc.

I love Psalm 25:10 " All the paths of the LORD are mercy and truth unto such as keep his covenant and his testimonies." All our paths are in some ways unique, but all the pathways of the Lord can be full of mercy and truth.

So a good ole boy from Kentucky who fell through a rabbit hole can be on one of the paths of mercy & truth. Amazing.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

I'm not wishing to be hard on your bro. I know what it is to be rejected. After many years in Ft. Lauderdale I moved to Kentucky, where I have family ties all over the place that I'm still coming to know after 5 years.

But still, even with family ties to the area, I'm spotted immediately as different. I've even had people I just met, on more than one occasion, tell me early on that, "You've different." I guess it sticks out like a sore thumb.

I got that reaction all the time from family and my old friends back in the 'hood after I got saved. That just opened the door wide open for me to share the gospel with all my old friends.

It was much later on, after my dear cousin, whom I grew up with, the self-appointed, soap-box standing, "defender of the faith" apologetic, and self-righteous, all-condemning Pharisee, informed my entire family of my "cult" involvement, that caused us so much pain and hardship. That slammed the door shut to the gospel. So many were robbed of the opportunity to hear the life-changing joy of my salvation.

Originally Posted by awareness

In this small town area, if you're not in their "old country boy in group" you are not well received and will find yourself hard up against it.

I get this reaction even before I'm able to speak of the different thoughts and opinions that I hold, that is undeniably different.

awareness, you could simply go away to college, and then return home, and get that same reaction from the "good old country boys."

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Why do I have to own this bro Hope? Because I bought it. That's why. My years in the LC have branded me. It's my Scarlet Letter. And yours too bro Hope. Wear it with humility and after awhile, if you're nice, they will receive you like Paul was received.

But don't expect a free pass. Not after spending years in what many think is a loony bin.

Sometimes I think this forum is a "loony bin."

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by aron

It is sad that we sometimes don't realize the cleansing power of our Lord, that "forever tainted" doesn't exist in His eyes.

I was very touched that the christian fellowship was able to receive Saul/Paul, who had formerly been persecuting them to the death, on only the recommendation of Ananias and on his(Paul's) own testimony. That was good enough for them. Once their Lord forgave, so did they, immediately and without any lingering rancor. May such a Spirit still prevail upon this land!

I'm not so sure that the saints were so quick to forgive "immediately and without any lingering rancor." Acts 9.26 says, "Saul came to Jerusalem, and he tried to join himself to the disciples, but all were afraid of him, and did not believe he was a disciple."

It was then Barnabas (full of the Holy Spirit and faith) who was instrumental in connecting Saul to the body of Christ. It took the church a long time (3 years in Arabia?) to accept his salvation from the Lord, and then Barnabas went to Tarsus to retrieve Saul, bringing him to Antioch, where they assembled a whole year.

But, yes!, how wonderful is "the cleansing power of our Lord."