What ever happened to Max Rappaport, John Ingells?

I was in the Church in Anaheim during the years 1974-1976 when Witness Lee, Ron Kangas, John Ingalls and Max Rappaport were the three leaders of that Church. I understand that Ron Kangas is still with LSM (I lived at his house in Anaheim for a month in 1975). Whatever happened to Max Rappaport and John Ingalls after they left the Church? Anyone know?

[UntoHim]

As far as Max and Sandee Rapoport are concerned, I know that they have continued to serve the Lord and preach the Gospel. At one point I think they were in the Riverside California area. Not sure about now.

Here is something that may be of interest to you:
http://www.amazon.com/Our-Personal-T.../dp/B008DNC748

As far as John Ingalls is concerned, he has been meeting in Westminster California with "Church Assembly in Westminster" since the mid 1990's I believe. The church is composed of mostly former LC members and leaders. I know that Ken Unger was there for many years. Ken passed away in July of 2012. I have been to a few of their meetings over the years and found that Ingalls et al have really never "moved on". Everything is the same as the Local Church except they don't used materials with Witness Lee's name on them. Obviously LSM with never allow "the rebels" to have use of any of their copyrighted materials.

Last I heard, John was in very frail health, and I noted that a website that was started by a church member has not been updated in a year or so.
Here's the link to that website:
http://caiw.blogspot.com/

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

I have been to a few of their meetings over the years and found that Ingalls et al have really never "moved on". Everything is the same as the Local Church except they don't used materials with Witness Lee's name on them.

Last I heard, John was in very frail health, and I noted that a website that was started by a church member has not been updated in a year or so.
Here's the link to that website:
http://caiw.blogspot.com/

Even now the current LSM/LC leaders have not given John nor many of the former elders grace.
I have been to one of the meetings at Westminster. The format is unlike the current LC format (the current LC format being one man's ministry spoken through a variety of voices). Very similar to what I remember prior to the New Way. There may be some former LC members meeting is Westminster, but from my visit I was pleasantly surprised by diversity in ages.
I wonder what is meant by never "moved on". If it's because of the format, I see it's logical have met that way since the 60's. Many former LC members might have trouble meetings any other way where there's no opportunity for anyone to speak with the exception of a pastor and a select few.

[UntoHim]

Originally Posted by Terry

I wonder what is meant by never "moved on". If it's because of the format, I see it's logical have met that way since the 60's. Many former LC members might have trouble meetings any other way where there's no opportunity for anyone to speak with the exception of a pastor and a select few.

Most evangelical churches nowadays have smaller home meetings where there is an opportunity to speak. Most reserve the main Sunday worship service time for corporate worship and the ministry of the Word by the teaching elders/pastors. This format seems to work best to keep the services within a reasonable timeframe of 90 minutes or less. Any longer and you are trying the patients and capacity of the average person, especially someone who is unsaved or maybe new to the Faith. Also there is a concern for the time of the children's workers.

I surely understand why the Westminster Assembly has retained the old familiar Local Church format - John Ingalls is around 80 at this point and I wouldn't expect to see much change. The times I was at the W.A fellowship it was mostly people over 40 and many much older. It was over half Chinese/Asian. I don't think there has been much growth, especially in the area of American Caucasians and young people. I think the reason for this is very simple - If people are going to church for just to fulfil some religious need then there are many more attractive/entertaining/uplifting places to go, especially in So. Calif. Conversely, if someone is really seeking the Lord, the ministry of the Word and true/open fellowship with other genuine Christians, then there are also many better choices than the Local Church or any spinoff church that's basically the same but without hearing the name of Lee every other sentence.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Most evangelical churches nowadays have smaller home meetings where there is an opportunity to speak. Most reserve the main Sunday worship service time for corporate worship and the ministry of the Word by the teaching elders/pastors. This format seems to work best to keep the services within a reasonable timeframe of 90 minutes or less. Any longer and you are trying the patients and capacity of the average person, especially someone who is unsaved or maybe new to the Faith. Also there is a concern for the time of the children's workers.

That has been my experience and I have no problem with it. In the home meeting atmosphere, it is more conducive for everyone having an opportunity to speak. I have heard the pros and cons of opening the floor in the Sunday Worship/Lord's Day meeting atmosphere. Do you let the trained pastor speak an entire message without anyone else an opportunity to speak? Or do you have an open floor to the congregation where there is more of an opportunity to use it as a platform than to build and edify?

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

The times I was at the W.A fellowship it was mostly people over 40 and many much older. It was over half Chinese/Asian. I don't think there has been much growth, especially in the area of American Caucasians and young people. I think the reason for this is very simple - If people are going to church for just to fulfil some religious need then there are many more attractive/entertaining/uplifting places to go, especially in So. Calif.

Conversely, if someone is really seeking the Lord, the ministry of the Word and true/open fellowship with other genuine Christians, then there are also many better choices than the Local Church or any spinoff church that's basically the same but without hearing the name of Lee every other sentence.

The latter first. I would recommend a community church if not a house church.
I had only been at Westminster in 2010. I can't say for certain, but I recall a fair ratio of Chinese and Caucasian. What caught my attention was the number of youth in the congregation. As I had fully expected most brothers and sisters being over 40 with not much youth.

[UntoHim]

Terry, maybe you didn't notice, but the Assembly in Westminster is actually two different churches - one English speaking and one Chinese speaking. Remind you of anything??? Really it's not much different than the Local Church of Witness Lee. There is a pretense of oneness but really the oneness is just that they are in the same building. What is the basis of their "oneness"? That they share the same address? Or that they sing from the same hymnal? Or that they all used to follow the ministry of Witness Lee and Watchman Nee?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Terry

Even now the current LSM/LC leaders have not given John nor many of the former elders grace.

John Ingalls was a "rebellious, conspiratorial, and ambitious" brother who contracted a rare and highly contagious form of "leprosy."

If I were such an evil person, would you give me any grace? Would you even visit or talk to me? I doubt if you would even dare send me an email.

I understand that Max Rapoport was even worse than John Ingalls.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Ohio

John Ingalls was a "rebellious, conspiratorial, and ambitious" brother who contracted a rare and highly contagious form of "leprosy."

If I were such an evil person, would you give me any grace? Would you even visit or talk to me? I doubt if you would even dare send me an email.

I understand that Max Rapoport was even worse than John Ingalls.

Too funny Ohio. On a serious note, it is sad so many people bought into it. To date, not one has ever been able to offer a reasonable and logical explanation where John's "ambition" was from 1962-1988. I don't buy the notion John woke up one day and suddenly became "rebellious" and "ambitious". Rebellious against who? If being under the headship of Christ is to be rebellious, there may be a point. There's other brothers who fit this suggestion. John is merely one of the more prominent and polarizing brothers from local church history. Having gone from one of the most respected brothers in the Recovery to Public Enemy #1. Ironically FTTA trainees have been to John's home without knowing the brother before them, his ambition is to minister Christ.
I'm sure when Max was at Francis Ball's memorial service, it was not a case of the blendeds not recognizing Max, but a case of shunning Max. Obviously for Max to have worked the Vern Defromke, Bill Mallon, John Ingalls, Paul Kerr, and Stephen Kaung, on a Christian publication, there must have been reconciliation and restoration between the brothers.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Ohio

If I were such an evil person, would you give me any grace? Would you even visit or talk to me? I doubt if you would even dare send me an email.

That must explain why I don't receive any emails anymore from brothers.
Really Ohio, the LSM practice of grace can be summed up as "If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. " (Luke 6:32)

True example; a brother or sister can use the prophesying meeting as a platform to put down non-LSM Christian fellowships and rasing the concern to an elder, the brother or sister just needs to be given grace. (After all, he is positive for the ministry.) By contrast, certain celders and coworkers leave the LSM fellowship, instead of giving them grace after they leave their character is assasinated and their integrity is besmirched.

A brother doesn't even have to be a coworker, just a small potato who expresses a concern and he is removed from fellowship. Where is the ministry of grace?

Those of you who may have been involved in carpentry, have you ever tried to hammer a nail into a knot? The nail will go sideways. Having tried to go on in the local churches, that is what the absence of grace in the local churches caused me to go.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Terry

Really Ohio, the LSM practice of grace can be summed up as "If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. " (Luke 6:32)

Those of you who may have been involved in carpentry, have you ever tried to hammer a nail into a knot?

Terry, glad you saw thru my sarcasm. I have always considered it to be a potent means of communication.

Your verse here is like a bright light shining upon the ministry of condemnation so prevalent in the Recovery.

And yes, I love carpentry, and for that matter, all things remodeling. I am known by many of my friends as the "guru" of old home construction. Let it be known that "knots are nasty!"

I actually remember the time I was all of six years old and my Dad ranted on the painter who painted the knots on his garage at our new house with standard paint/primer, but not with shellac, and left an intelligible image on my memory.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Ohio

John Ingalls was a "rebellious, conspiratorial, and ambitious" brother who contracted a rare and highly contagious form of "leprosy."

If I were such an evil person, would you give me any grace? Would you even visit or talk to me? I doubt if you would even dare send me an email.

I understand that Max Rapoport was even worse than John Ingalls.

I never met Max but John and Bill Mallon came to share in Detroit a couple times. I hope the best for them. This entire conversation reminds me when things were good...before I entered the LC (when I was so excited reading WN and never heard of WL) and during my Santa Cruz LC experience. It would have been nice to have looked back and read about everything but, no, I had to get involved. Oh, well. Even hearing about what happened to John I. and Bill Mallon is so sad and considering how hard it has been for so many of us after we left the LC I can't imagine what John and Bill went through. Probably in many respects going through the motions although I am sure they never wavered in their faith.

I just stumbled onto this site when doing a search for Max and Sandee. When I became a believer in the Lord, while stationed in California, it was Max and Sandee who showed me and scores of young people the love and power of God. They were my first spiritual mentors and introduced me to the manifestation of God's power and love in a remarkable way.

Does anyone know where they are today? Also, does anyone know where Willie Samoff is?

Blessings,
James B

This is my second post regarding Max and Sandee Rappaport. As I mentioned in my earlier post, they were my first spiritual mentors after I turned my life over the Lordship of Jesus Christ. The young people who attended their "coffee house" ministry in San Clemente invited me to attend on the weekends and Wednesday evenings. Those were life changing meetings, and after nearly 48 years, I can still remember how the Lord used them to impact my life.

I thank God for Max and Sandee, and hope they are still standing strong for the Lord, or have been restored from any wounds they may have received along their journey.

If anyone knows where they are, please post their contact information.

Thanks,
James B

[JJ]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

As far as John Ingalls is concerned, he has been meeting in Westminster California with "Church Assembly in Westminster" since the mid 1990's I believe. The church is composed of mostly former LC members and leaders. I know that Ken Unger was there for many years. Ken passed away in July of 2012. I have been to a few of their meetings over the years and found that Ingalls et al have really never "moved on". Everything is the same as the Local Church except they don't used materials with Witness Lee's name on them. Obviously LSM with never allow "the rebels" to have use of any of their copyrighted materials.

Last I heard, John was in very frail health, and I noted that a website that was started by a church member has not been updated in a year or so.
Here's the link to that website:
http://caiw.blogspot.com/[/COLOR]

Apparently John Ingalls had some fellowship going with the church in Toledo in 2014: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bg5MoyHRK6U

Sounds like "local church talk" to me.

the living stream ministry is broadcast on 740 am radio... during week at 11 am... the last I heard of max was when attended a meeting in riverside, California along with peter ross and other remembers of the lc from the 70's..

[HERn]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

the living stream ministry is broadcast on 740 am radio... during week at 11 am... the last I heard of max was when attended a meeting in riverside, California along with peter ross and other remembers of the lc from the 70's..

So, are you saying that Max is attending church with the LC now?

No, I try to locate him, but to no avail, but I was given a phone number by Karen R (one of those of the exodus) but did not call...Karen was one who spent time with sandy along with the many followers of max and sandy ...BTW, I was one of the first to leave the Colorado migration...