Pre-Wrath? A Rapture Position.

[manna-man]

Greetings Saints,

Yep, I'm a Pre-Wrather. Where do you stand?



What is the Pre-Wrath rapture?

The view that the rapture will occur after the wrath of Satan/Antichrist on Christians and Jews but before God's wrath on the earth.

When will this happen?

Sometime After the midpoint of the 7-year period of Daniel and immediately after the 6th seal of Revelation (sign of the sun, moon, and stars is given in the heavens).



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There is a lot of confusion out their concerning the rapture. I think alot of it has to do with the fact that most christians don't understand that there are two types of wrath being poured out in the world before the end comes.

The wrath of satan and the Wrath of God.

The wrath of satan started from the time of his fall through the beginning of the Tribulation and ends at the beginning of the Day of the Lord.

Remember! The enemy has been constantly attacking man from the very beginning! And as the bible says even until the end.

With the mark of the beast.

Revelation 13vs16: And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: 17: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Matthew chapter 24 is a good place to start concerning the sequence of events that must take place for the completion of prophecy concerning the end of this age.

As we read the chapter, if we pay attention the clarity will astound you!

The fact that Jesus in verse 4 warns the saints by saying:

Matt 24:4: And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

Lets take a minute and consider this.

The word heed means: pay attention to advice: to give serious attention to, a warning or advice and take it into account when acting.

To take heed doesn't merely mean listen to, It means that we should take serious the words that are to follow.

What words? Take heed that no man deceive you.


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Note:

Many believers today don't think that they could possibly be in any danger once they have received the gospel.

This is the furthest from the truth otherwise Jesus wouldn't have warned them!

It should be every christians goal to stay tuned for what God is about to do next.

Abiding in him would be a good way of putting it.

For the gospels do warn us to...Col:4:2: Continue in prayer, and watch in the same with thanksgiving; and to: 2Tm:4:5: But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

And they (the gospel)even admonish us too!

Lk:12:37: Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.

Another thing that He unveils to us as he warns us to take heed to his words is that:

9: Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.


This here is where the confusion seems to start. For many saints glance over the word of God lightly and get confused with verses such as....

Jn:10:28: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. and Jn:3:3: Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Is there anyone big enough to take anything out of the hand of God?

Of course not!

But lets take this a little farther and ask about what it doesn't say.

Did Jesus ever say that you don't have free will and you are not able to walk away from him excersising your free will?

No.

But does that mean that we can't?

For the Lord continually warns us with scriptures like this one.

Lk:21:36: Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Grace to the Saints,

Don Jr.


P.S. If you agree or disagree please feel free to add too or share your position!
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[countmeworthy]

Pre-Tribber here but flexible to any position until in the twinkling of an eye, we are changed from Glory to GLORY. Flexible until I see the dead in Christ rise First and then we WHO are alive be caught up with them to meet our LORD in the air. (1 Thessalonians 4:6-7)

I believe Luke 21:36 is speaking of escaping the entire 7 yr tribulation. For it says to pray ...that we would escape ALL these things that are about to come to pass...not some but ALL.
I also believe not every born again believer who is alive at the time of the Rapture will be raptured...but again, no one knows for sure until that day comes.
I believe there will be a general harvest rapture during the 7 yr trib but I am not sure WHEN it will be for there will also be many saints who will be beheaded and martyred and experience physical death.

I believe there will be some who make it through the entire 7 yr tribulation bruised and wounded for the sake of the KING JESUS.

There is a reward awaiting those who are watching eagerly and lovingly for the LORD's appearing, His return. It is the Crown of Righteousness spoken of in 2 Timothy 4:8. I believe not every born again believer will receive that crown because many are not watching for the Lord's return and worst, mock those who are.

To my knowledge, there are at least 5 crowns awaiting the Righteous:
The Crown of Life (James 1:2, Revelation 2:10)
The Crown of Righteousness (2 Timothy 4:8)
The Crown of Glory (Psalm 8:5 and 1 Peter 5:4)
The Incorruptible Crown (1 Corinthians 9:25)
The Crown of Rejoicing (1 Thessalonians 2:19)

I think we are very, very near to the return of the LORD which will be a secret event not seen by the world. But yet the world will experience the EFFECTS of the rapture for it will make a HUGE worldwide impact. I am inclined to believe the Rapture will bring in worldwide chaos via earthquakes of great proportions that could shut down all electricity, shutting down all form of electronic communication, TV, RADIO, LIGHTS, PHONES and of course computers. A nuclear attack or attacks an EMP attack could also happen at the same time the Rapture occurs. The world will be in such a chaotic state, most will not know a RAPTURE occured. Many might very well come to deep repentance when all this happens.

The rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:6-7) is not to be confused with the 2nd coming of the Lord Jesus Christ in which every eye will see Him. That event will come at the end of the 7 yr Tribulation when He comes down riding on a White Horse along with His army of Saints, the Bride of CHRIST, to fight the battle of Armageddon. (Revelation 19:7,8 & 11, 17-21)

Mu studies and research are indepth and I have been a passionate endtimes watcher since 2005 but was stirred up for the Lord's return while in the LC in the 70s. ( I do not agree or believe in a thousand year outer darkness as Lee taught however and I am not totally sure his position on the Rapture. It makes no difference to me what his position was. I have occassionally crossreferenced his teachings while doing my research and studies. But not only HIS. Whatever his position was did not come SOLELY to him directly from GOD. He gathered his views from studying the Word of God and while studying other people's positions.) I am not dogmatic about how and when the LORD will return. We can debate, discuss and argue our positions based on how we view scripture. But as long as we are still here our position is our interpretation.

For ME the most important FACT of the Lord's return in this immediate moment of time is to be washed and cleansed in the Blood of the Lamb continuously, covering ourselves in HIS PRECIOUS BLOOD everywhere we go for that will scare off the demons & Satan himself.

Pray without ceasing Pray with Thanksgiving for everything, giving Praise, Honor and GLORY to our KING. This is how we are ushered into His Presence.

Psalm 100 tells us we enter His gates with THANKSGIVING and into HIS Courts with Praise. Then we enter into the HOLY of HOLIES where HIS PRESENCE is with Boldness and True Assurance of FAITH.

I believe the Lord's Return will not take us by surprise because we will be immersed in His Presence prior to the GLORIOUS event, prepared as a Bride for Her Bridegroom.

The (Holy) Spirit and the BRIDE say "COME LORD JESUS. COME" Come QUICKLY. We Long to behold Your beauty Face to FACE.

[manna-man]

Pre-Tribber here but flexible to any position until in the twinkling of an eye, we are changed from Glory to GLORY. Flexible until I see the dead in Christ rise First and then we WHO are alive be caught up with them to meet our LORD in the air. (1 Thessalonians 4:6-7)

Amen CMW! You are flexible because you are open to the Lord! And that's wonderful! You keep on being open to Him dear saint and you will not be disappointed in the end.

It would be nice not to go through the great tribulation I agree. I remember Jesus praying in the garden for this cup to pass. It didn't. Thank God for that!
I also remember all the new testament saints thinking that the return of the Lord was imminent and I'm sure they felt the same as you did about being raptured from their plight. He didn't and they suffered faithfully unto death.
I also see many people going through trials and tribulations every day of my life and I can't help but think why would the Lord pull the saints out of the first part of the tribulation or the middle? When scriptures state: Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. They, We sacrificed our lives even unto death.

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Matt 24:13 (KJV)

There seems to be a theme here...Saints go through tribulations since the beginning they endure/remain faithful even until/unto death. All those deaths proved faithfulness to the Ultimate degree for eternity! I can't imagine it being different in the end days other that scripture that states that those days would be cut short lest all might be deceived.

However this goes down, it will be sad and glorious at the same time.

Hey sis I'm with you! I'm open and flexible and forgiven!

Grace,

Don Jr

CMW I appreciate your willingness to be open to the Lord. It's a breath of fresh air!

And just as you stated it will be chaotic. And we know satan will fight against the saints clear up until God pours out His wrath then you know the battle is over. In fact this battle will be foolishness because who can battle against the Lord!?

[countmeworthy]

Manna-man
Good morning.

To what you wrote:

It would be nice not to go through the great tribulation I agree. I remember Jesus praying in the garden for this cup to pass. It didn't. Thank God for that!
I also remember all the new testament saints thinking that the return of the Lord was imminent and I'm sure they felt the same as you did about being raptured from their plight. He didn't and they suffered faithfully unto death.
I also see many people going through trials and tribulations every day of my life and I can't help but think why would the Lord pull the saints out of the first part of the tribulation or the middle? When scriptures state: Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. They, We sacrificed our lives even unto death.

I sometimes cringe or want to cringe when I hear people say they cannot wait for the LORD to return because they are soo tired of this world and the problems that come with it. Many if not everyone is struggling in one form or another. Because of our struggles and desperation, fear sets in....and that creates a problem because we are instructed over & over in the Word of God NOT to fear ! "FEAR NOT" we are told. God has NOT given us a spirit of fear! Our Fear in the Lord is not really 'fear'...except for the unbelievers. They better FEAR GOD ! But we who are children of GOD and Covenant people, have a LOVING RESPECT, a LOVING REVERENCE for our Heavenly Father through Christ JESUS.

The saints often times become 'beggars' instead of taking their rightful positions as kings and priests unto the Lord. But unless we live sanctified lives in FAITH..walking in the Presence of God 24/7 speaking the Word of God into us and guided by HIS Voice, the Holy Spirit, the saints become like Peter when walking on water, he took his eyes of Jesus who was standing on water and begun to sink. WE walk by FAITH not by sight. That is a very difficult instruction for us to follow and a difficult lesson for us to learn.

Salvation is a FREE GIFT but the Rewards are not free. They come with a price: crucifying the flesh..dying to self.

We all go through trials & tribulations. This is the Fire that is burning the wood, hay, and stubble out of us right now.

Some of us will not experience physical death. I pray I am counted worthy to be one of them. I pray all of us here will be counted worthy to escape ALL the things that are about to come to pass and to stand before the Son of Man hearing those awesome words "WELL DONE my good and faithful servant. You were faithful in a few things. I will make you ruler of many."

But I suspect very few truly know what it is to crucify the flesh..to die to self. How can people expect to simply be 'raptured' if they think their ticket to be changed in the twinkling of an eye is simply to believe in Jesus Christ continuing to live in their carnal or religious mindset. It does not work that way.

We cannot be fence waddlers. We cannot keep one foot in the world and one foot in the Word. We also cannot be legalistic and try to keep 'the law'. That is where people get all confused.

I understand why this happens for I've been there, done that. Truly and I saw this with BOLDNESS and with Humbleness. I AM A NEW CREATION !!! I AM CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST. IT IS NO LONGER I WHO LIVES BUT CHRIST LIVES IN ME !! AND THE LIFE THAT I now live in the flesh, I LIVE BY FAITH in the SON OF GOD--JESUS !! (Galations 2:20) For to me to live IS CHRIST and to DIE is GAIN ! (Philippians 1:21)

These scriptures are inscribed into my being. I truly do live by these scriptures and when I fall flat on my face, I repent, wash myself in the BLOOD of the LAMB, dust myself off and ask the LORD to help me not to repeat my transgression.

Last week, I was telling a friend of mine that I feel I am in a 'holy prison cell'. The Presence of GOD is everywhere I go. (The Presence of God is not a 'feeling' btw). She then said I was experiencing what Paul wrote in Ephesians 3:1 - I Paul, am a PRISONER of the LORD JESUS CHRIST- WOW ! I exclaimed. I never thought of it that way. In fact, when I used to read that scripture, my carnal mind almost felt 'sorry' for him. You see, in my carnal mind, a prisoner is someone suffering, who is being punished, who is not happy. To be a PRISONER OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST is quite an HONOR !! It is the exact opposite of what the carnal mind thinks !! There is NO OTHER place I want to be ! I KNOW that I know that I KNOW...I am NOT of this world. I AM in this WORLD but not OF it. So being a Prisoner of the LORD is heavenly !!!

I sometimes look back at my life only to see how far I've come but I also do not hold on to my 'accomplishments' in Christ for I still fall short of HIS GLORY !

This is how I believe we become 'Rapture Ready'. Enoch walked with God and was not. Elijah walked with God and a Chariot of Fire with horses came and picked him up in a whirlwind. They experienced being Raptured. Stephen may have been stoned to death but I would not be surprised if he did not even feel the pain of the stoning because when he saw the heavens open and Jesus STANDING, you better believe Stephen was in the GLORIOUS PRESENCE of GOD. Imagine seeing JESUS STANDING at the Right Hand of the FATHER !!! You think those stones pained him? His body may have been bleeding but I bet he did not feel a thing.

The Key to being rapture is walking with GOD 24/7. Most people find it difficult to walk with God 24/7 using their circumstances as excuses. But it is in our circumstances where we experience dying to self. Instead of complaining and murmurring, we bless those who are annoying every fiber of our being out of us !!! We call on the Name of the LORD from a pure heart..we bless, we give Thanks, we give God Praise and GLORY...and then the Peace of God which surpasses all human understanding encompasses us.

May I--May WE be counted worthy to be Raptured. May we be counted worthy to receive the crowns of Righteousness, the crown of Glory, the Incorruptible Crown, the Crown of Rejoicing and the Crown of LIFE. May we be counted worthy to rule and reign with Christ as co-heirs with Him.

How I thank the LORD every day for His Precious Blood. I thank the Father, OUR Father every day for sending us His Beloved Son-JESUS and for sending us HIS HOLY SPIRIT. Oh How I love the Holy Spirit !! He is the One who pointed me and nudged me patiently to JESUS. Oh how I have repented for putting our Precious Holy Spirit on the back burner by not acknowledging HIM and giving HIM PRAISE, GLORY and HONOR for HE IS GOD-the HOLY SPIRIT !

The Holy Spirit has and continues to be sooo very Patient even when we have grieved HIM. (Ephesians 4:30) I pray and do believe, I am not grieving Him as I once did.

Thank You for blessing me with your thoughtful words Manna-man.
May the LORD RICHLY bless and reward you as you serve God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

[awareness]

CountMeWorthy:
This is how I believe we become 'Rapture Ready'.

The way to be rapture ready is to live in rapture with the Lord daily.

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by awareness

The way to be rapture ready is to live in rapture with the Lord daily.

Remember that when your wife is yelling at you...or when someone has plucked your last nerve...or when you have plucked someone's last nerve.