We should just sense life and not discern right and wrong?

[Former LC member]

This audio link of a Blended Brother speaking makes disturbing listening:
http://www.blendedbody.com/_cl/_audi...servidores.mp3

On this recording, Steve Issit is slandered and called an evil man.
The focus is on persuading the saints not to read any works sent to them that are critical of LSM, especially from Steve Issit.
I was flabbergasted to hear that this 'learned brother's' sole justification for slandering this man, is that his works make this brother 'feel' death. Is this what we have degraded to? We discern everything on how we feel and direct the saints to do likewise? Apparently we are not supposed to judge what is right or wrong. As far as I know from, dare I say ,GODS WORD, that the only thing that discerns IS Gods Word. See Hebrews 4:12. 'The Word of God is living and active[yes, it is living, not other people's writings] and active, sharper than a two edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and spirit, of joints and marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

So before the brothers tell us how to act, according to their personal thoughts of whether it is life, maybe they should subject themselves and their thoughts to the Word of God and direct us to do the same. Only the Word of God can help us to discern whether our thoughts and feelings ARE the same as God's.

[UntoHim]

This recording is from this website:
http://www.digitalfxla.com/_blog/?p=195
This recording is apparently the 5th in a series of 6 messages

The 6th and final message seems to be about the "Defense and Confirmation Project".
Somebody needs to listen to a bit of this recording. I have no idea who is the speaker in this one.

Here is a translation:
"Days 18 to the 20 of January of 2008 the Conference was carried out the International in the city of Ambato, in Ecuador. The speaker is brother Ron Kangas. The brothers in that locality wish to share with all the saints the messages given in that one occasion. Thanks to the brothers of Cali, Colombia to cooperate in obtaining these messages. We recommended to them strongly that they listen to the content of these messages, when hearing these words, we felt that the Head is providing us Its loving care when replacing to us with the truth"

-------------------------------------------

[Ohio]

For some reason I don't have the "necessary plug-in" in order to listen to this.

[UntoHim]

Originally Posted by Ohio

For some reason I don't have the "necessary plug-in" in order to listen to this.

Usually you are given the choice to download the necessary plug-in, otherwise....

Ohio and others:
You may want to go to the site:
http://www.digitalfxla.com/_blog/?p=195

Then go to the individual file (in this case under to category of "MP3" category) RIGHT CLICK on the mouse, then select "Save Link As", then hit "Save".

I assume you have a media player of some sort and it should automatically play the saved file in whatever media player you have.

[Norm]

It sounds like (message 6 Presentacion.de.libros) could be Dan Sady of Fullerton who serves with DCP.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Then go to the individual file (in this case under to category of "MP3" category) RIGHT CLICK on the mouse, then select "Save Link As", then hit "Save".

I assume you have a media player of some sort and it should automatically play the saved file in whatever media player you have.

Thanks for the 'puter help. Don't you just love that right clicker?

I downloaded "msj1" the first message, and it is Ron Kangas speaking.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Joanna Tysoe

This audio link of a Blended Brother speaking makes disturbing listening:
http://www.blendedbody.com/_cl/_audi...servidores.mp3

On this recording, Steve Issit is slandered and called an evil man.
The focus is on persuading the saints not to read any works sent to them that are critical of LSM, especially from Steve Issit.
I was flabbergasted to hear that this 'learned brother's' sole justification for slandering this man, is that his works make this brother 'feel' death. Is this what we have degraded to? We discern everything on how we feel and direct the saints to do likewise? Apparently we are not supposed to judge what is right or wrong. As far as I know from, dare I say ,GODS WORD, that the only thing that discerns IS Gods Word. See Hebrews 4:12. 'The Word of God is living and active[yes, it is living, not other people's writings] and active, sharper than a two edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and spirit, of joints and marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

I too was flabbergasted. Is this the speaking of a brother with spiritual authority? Certainly not. For accuracy sake these are the adjectives Ron Kangas used:
"One of the most evil of these persons, his name is Steve Isitt. He is a man of death. And, he is very active in a negative way."

Later in the conference Ron had this to say:

"Oh, this man of death, Steve Isitt"

I had two trains of thought when reflecting on Ron's speaking:

1. It's one thing if Ron or any other blended brother or blended co-worker finds Steve's writings to be negative. It's another matter to assume they know Steve so well. Please brothers excercise some discernment. Learn to discern the writing from the brother. Just because Steve's writings may be negative means Steve is.

2. What exactly is Ron basing his speaking on? If he's basing it on Steve's writing, okay. Go back and re-read the verse Joanna used in her post. If it's based on what other brother's have said, I ask this:

Have any of these brothers ever spent time with Steve? Not likely. If any brother had, he would likely be perplexed why a brother so positive for the ministry can also be critical. It's not according to our concepts.
As in Ron's case of speaking so carelessly, that has also been our past. Brothers have been so quick to condemn brothers who left in the late 80's without being appraised of the situation.
Just because a brother says so, does that make his speaking according to the Tree of Life? Discern with your mind through your spirit according to the Word and not according to our peers.

Instead of condeming brothers because their concepts are not according to the ministry, remember:

"This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you." John 15:12

Terry

[Cal]

All I can say is this message by Kangas is so competely stupid that anyone who takes it seriously has bigger problems than I can solve.

I kept hoping the translator would cut him off and say "Usted debe pensar que somos realmente ignorantes."*





* You must think we are really ignorant.

[YP0534]

Originally Posted by Igzy

All I can say is this message by Kangas is so completely stupid that anyone who takes it seriously has bigger problems than I can solve.

Here's the one I want to ask and actually I asked it before and no one had an answer for me.

WHO is Ron Kangas?

Who has commended his speaking to me?

When I was among them, back in the late 80's, I never heard this name.

So many others, Benson, Minoru, Andrew, I know them. I know who they are and where they came from and why they are acknowledged as leaders.

I do not know the Ron Kangas back story. He criticizes the Internet speakers on the basis that there is no context within which to discern the different speakings. Such discernment is not actually based upon LIFE, of course, completely undercutting his entire argument. Still, within the discourse concerning good and evil that he participates in while pretending to do otherwise (for his speaking surely was nothing but death to MY hearing and I'd ask all the listeners to judge this for themselves before the Lord) can someone please tell me why this voice that I have now heard from the Internet is worthy of more weight than that of those he denounces?

Igzy, you will surely recognize this hidden appeal to authority for the farce that it is. Help me out here to at least understand what the Kangas claim to fame is? Is he a late-comer who has been anointed by a Blended Brothers pronouncement? A review of the evidence available on the Internet indicates that he has been around since at least the late 1970s and the historical focus of his "ministry" has been Local Church polemics:

• Mind bending or mind renewing?: A reply to The mindbenders, by J. Sparks
  By Ron Kangas
  Published by , 1977
  
• The Truth Concerning the Ultimate Goal of God's Economy: A Refutation of J.S.'s Slanderous Accusations
  By Living Stream Ministry Staff, Ron Kangas, Living Stream Ministry, Living Stream Ministry
  Published by Living Stream Ministry, 1994
  ISBN 0870838148, 9780870838149
  37 pages
  
• The Triune God: A Testimony of Our Belief and Experience
  By Ron Kangas
  Published by Living Stream Ministry, 1976
  27 pages
  
• The Truth Concerning Salvation
  By Ron Kangas, Robert Passantino
  A refutation of the tract by Robert Passantino, Witness Lee and the Local Church, published by Christian Research Institute.
  Published by Kangas, 197?
  18 pages

Apparently he moved to greater prominence after the A&C project began. Looks like he started out there teaching against reincarnation heresies...
http://www.affcrit.com/pdfs/1996/03/96_03_sd.pdf

It's so sad and telling that such a one has risen to such prominence in the denomination.

Can anyone suggest a spiritually relevant commendation of the teachings of Kangas? I never got one and I never have received his teachings as a consequence. Does anyone know what he was up to in the late 1980s that I never heard about him? Can anyone testify that they have received ANYTHING of eternal value from this one?

Thanks.

[UntoHim]

Any of you out there who get a little squeamish when they hear the word "cult" applied to the Local Church need to listen to Ron Kangas on this tape. It even gave me, a grizzled ole LC veteran, the creeps I guess we should not be surprised to hear this kind of venom coming from a man who once proclaimed that one could be "in the church but not in the Body".....

but calling a brother in Christ "a man of death"? Really, Ron, are you that desperate to protect the name, legacy and myths surrounding Witness Lee and the religion he invented? I can't begin to tell how much this kind of speaking makes you look like a blind follower of a man.

...and just couldn't resist taking a shot at those original "concerned brothers" from the 80s, could ya Ron? That all took place back when most of these South American brothers were in grade school, but ya just can't seem to let it go, can you? And why do you bring up Eldon Hall?? These guys in South America wouldn't know Eldon Hall from the Taj Mahal...and why should they care about some old religious relic from a distant land in the distant past? You're grasping at straws, Dr. Kangas, and you're grasping for relevance. If you have to dig that far back to the old glory days in LA I feel really sorry for you.

What Kangas doesn't seem to realize (or probably just refuses to realize) is that Steve I is just one of many brothers down through the years who have expressed concerns regarding the direction of the LC movement - he just happened to come along during the information age - which has made it impossible for people like Witness Lee and Ron Kangas to exercise information control by pulling the wool over the eyes of the sheep. Oooooppps...I think everybody sees who the real wolf is now.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

...and just couldn't resist taking a shot at those original "concerned brothers" from the 80s, could ya Ron?
What Kangas doesn't seem to realize (or probably just refuses to realize) is that Steve I is just one of many brothers down through the years who have expressed concerns regarding the direction of the LC movement -

What Ron Kangas failed to realize is his condemning speaking in not much different than what we read about Saul of Tarsus in the Book of Acts.

Ron had this to say about one of the concerned brothers from the 1980's:

"I would like to ask him, after you wrote that letter to Brother Lee, and after you began to speak a certain way, what is your spiritual situation? How would you compare it with your situation when you were in Elden Hall?"

The recovery doesn't enhance nor diminish a person's spiritual situation. It's all about what they do with their personal time with the Lord. How would Ron know what this brother's spiritual situation is? Has Ron had fellowship with this brother?

Terry

[ABrotherInChrist]

Originally Posted by YP0534

Here's the one I want to ask and actually I asked it before and no one had an answer for me.
WHO is Ron Kangas?
Who has commended his speaking to me?

Ron Kangas is one of the senior editors at LSM. Up until a certain time, I think he may have operated mainly in the background, although he has been very active lately both in the bi-annual trainings and in conferences. He is also the one Blended Brother who comes out with the most objectionable quotes.

In my mind, he is out of his gourd.

I do not know the Ron Kangas back story. He criticizes the Internet speakers on the basis that there is no context within which to discern the different speakings. Such discernment is not actually based upon LIFE, of course, completely undercutting his entire argument. Still, within the discourse concerning good and evil that he participates in while pretending to do otherwise (for his speaking surely was nothing but death to MY hearing and I'd ask all the listeners to judge this for themselves before the Lord) can someone please tell me why this voice that I have now heard from the Internet is worthy of more weight than that of those he denounces?

I can't fill in his back-story, sorry. I've heard that he got a degree at Princeton (in theology perhaps, I forget). But past that, I don't know too much.

Igzy, you will surely recognize this hidden appeal to authority for the farce that it is. Help me out here to at least understand what the Kangas claim to fame is? Is he a late-comer who has been anointed by a Blended Brothers pronouncement? A review of the evidence available on the Internet indicates that he has been around since at least the late 1970s and the historical focus of his "ministry" has been Local Church polemics:

My understanding is that just about every book that LSM has put out has Ron's handprints on it. He is in charge of smoothing Lee's words into the edited printed version. He's been around for quite some time.

I wouldn't commend his teachings to anyone unless they are very spiritually strong and able to see right through his double-speak and darkness. His teachings have led to the main problems I have with the LC.

[YP0534]

Originally Posted by ABrotherInChrist

My understanding is that just about every book that LSM has put out has Ron's handprints on it. He is in charge of smoothing Lee's words into the edited printed version. He's been around for quite some time.

Lord Jesus.

If that is true, all of the confusion makes much more sense.

There's your real hidden reef, brothers....

[Cal]

Ron Kangas was the original editor of Witness Lee's Life-Study messages. I'm not sure if he edited anything of Lee's before the Life-Studies, but he did all of the early ones.

He was some kind of expert in English, and his claim to fame was his impeccable wording. To his credit I remember he orginally tried to push Lee toward using words according to their actual meaning, instead of redefining meanings. But apparently he rolled over on that one, too.

I remember everyone marveling at the wonderful lingusitic construction of the Life-Studies in the early days, and the thought was that Kangas was a kind of semi-genius for making them so simple and readable. (And bland for that matter. If Kangas were God I'm afraid the universe would be colored in shades of gray. But I digress.)

Anyway, I'm not sure when he became a teacher. But let's just say there are better ones to choose from.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Joanna Tysoe

I was flabbergasted to hear that this 'learned brother's' sole justification for slandering this man, is that his works make this brother 'feel' death. Is this what we have degraded to? We discern everything on how we feel and direct the saints to do likewise? Apparently we are not supposed to judge what is right or wrong.

Dear sister Joanna, I chuckled when I read your reaction here.

Do you realize that all the recent quarantines of all the GLA and Brazil were based on this same "feeling," or shall I say "taste." Witness Lee firstly, and now Ron Kangas are telling all the LC's how they should "feel," what the ministry should "taste" like. These alone are the proper "guidelines" for all the faithful to "discern" the situation by.

Throw out the Bible. Throw out common sense. Throw out the views of the Christian public. Throw out prayer. Throw out righteousness. Throw out your conscience. All of these may deceive you. They are not trustworthy. So they have taught us. The only real "safeguard" is the "sense of life" as now taught by Ron Kangas.