What Should be Shouted from Rooftops?

[Cassidy]

What is the difference between taking a brother to law court to settle a dispute and taking a brother to the court of public opinion to settle a dispute?

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Cassidy

What is the difference between taking a brother to law court to settle a dispute and taking a brother to the court of public opinion to settle a dispute?

The difference is the court of public opinion isn't the type of court we are prohibited from taking brothers to. (It isn't even really a court.) The court of public opinion is unavoidable for anyone with a public message, such as the one the Church is supposed to have.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Cassidy

What is the difference between taking a brother to law court to settle a dispute and taking a brother to the court of public opinion to settle a dispute?

6:4 If then you have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.

When you come to this forum to settle a dispute you are setting them to judge who are least esteemed in the church. So when you are going to court you are acting contrary to the Apostle's teaching, when you come to this forum you are one with the Apostle's teaching and this allows for a solid trumpet sound, not the uncertain trumpeting you get when you are condemned by both your conscience and the word of God.

[NeitherFirstnorLast]

Originally Posted by Cassidy

What is the difference between taking a brother to law court to settle a dispute and taking a brother to the court of public opinion to settle a dispute?

Good evening,

Not to put words in your mouth, but from what I read of your question, I'm thinking maybe the question you have asked should better be phrased, "How does what is posted here line up with the commands given to the Church in 1 Corinthians 6:1-3?" (which reads)...

"Suppose one of you wants to bring a charge against another believer. Should you take it to the ungodly to be judged? Why not take it to God’s people?

Don’t you know that God’s people will judge the world? And if you are going to judge the world, aren’t you able to judge small cases? Don’t you know that we will judge angels? Then we should be able to judge the things of this life even more."

In light of that command, I would say what is posted here is Scripturally responsible - we aren't taking brothers and sisters to task in a court of public opinion, per se, we are rather bringing the matter before God's people. If we were making accusations within the secular community, and thereby causing them to disparage the name of Christ, then I think that would be another matter altogether.... but I believe that what is done here is responsible; but for proof of that I can only offer my own heart on the matter (although I believe the Mission Statement of the board reflects the same).

I would also urge you to listen to Dr. Walter Martin's words on the matter - as he quite plainly lays out what cause he has to bring to light what was being done in Anaheim and the LRC during his time... and he does so with respect and with a sincere heart. You can listen to his messages here:

http://www.waltermartin.com/listening_library/Witness_Lee11.ram

http://www.waltermartin.com/listening_library/Witness_Lee12.ram

Did I misunderstand your question though?

Ray

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Cassidy

What is the difference between taking a brother to law court to settle a dispute and taking a brother to the court of public opinion to settle a dispute?

"Under these circumstances, after so many thousands of people had gathered together that they were stepping on one another, He began saying to His disciples first of all, Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy. But there is nothing covered up that will not be revealed, and hidden that will not be known. Accordingly, whatever you have said in the dark will be heard in the light, and what you have whispered in the inner rooms will be proclaimed upon the housetops." -- Luke 12.1-3

Cassidy, doesn't this scripture sound to you like the "court of public opinion?"

.

[Cassidy]

NeitherFirstnorLast,

You said "we aren't taking brothers and sisters to task in a court of public opinion, per se, we are rather bringing the matter before God's people"

This forum is not unlike the Roman courts which were held outside, in a town forum, or in the marketplace. Was that or is this type of forum what Paul meant when he said "Suppose one of you wants to bring a charge against another believer. Should you take it to the ungodly to be judged? Why not take it to God’s people?"

Or should charges against brothers be shouted from the rooftops, as Ohio states, so that not only the neighborhood involved gets to hear it but with the technology that allows the whole world, believer and unbeliever alike to tune-in?

In principle, there appears to be no difference between the modern public internet forum and the Roman courts held outside in the marketplace.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Cassidy

Or should charges against brothers be shouted from the rooftops, as Ohio states, so that not only the neighborhood involved gets to hear it but with the technology that allows the whole world, believer and unbeliever alike to tune-in?

It depends on whether these "brothers" continue to behave like the hypocritical Pharisees, otherwise why would the Lord Himself have spoken this?

Prayer and then private fellowship should always be the first course of action as the Lord has instructed us. Hundreds of brothers over the years have attempted this with the rulers at LSM, but never has an LSM brother been willing to be reconciled with his brother.

Don't blame this forum for exposing LSM's hypocrisy. It is their own doing. They reap what they have sown. They have rejected the Lord's simple instructions to "first go to your brother," and instead, publicly shame their brothers or sisters, as in the case of Jane Anderson, who wrote the book Thread of Gold.

[Cassidy]

Ohio, I am one of those that believe the Bible does not contradict itself. If there appears to be a disconnect the problem lies in our understanding of the passages.

How do you reconcile the Lord's statement with Paul's?

[Cal]

When we say the "court of public opinion" we are talking about the Church at large. Really, it's much like the LRC's "feel of the Body," applied correctly, that is. You get the facts out that people need to know and you get a response from God's people. In other words, this forum is one way God's people can "take it to the church."

The LRC doesn't believe in letting the Church at large form an honest opinion about them. They believe in manipulating information and spreading threats in order to produces a false picture of their history and practices. That is not only dishonest, it is against God's nature.

I remember WL teaching that the transformed Christian was so "transparent." The LRC is anything but transparent. Thus the need for forums like this to make up their lack of forthrightness. Otherwise, people are just going to be deceived. Should we just stand by and let that happen?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Cassidy

Ohio, I am one of those that believe the Bible does not contradict itself. If there appears to be a disconnect the problem lies in our understanding of the passages.

How do you reconcile the Lord's statement with Paul's?

I think you have the "disconnect."

Christians have a problem with LSM's excessive use of the courts.

Christians also realize that God is watching us, and that the hypocrisy of the Pharisees done in secret will be proclaimed from the rooftops.

There is no contradiction here.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Cassidy

Ohio, I am one of those that believe the Bible does not contradict itself. If there appears to be a disconnect the problem lies in our understanding of the passages.

How do you reconcile the Lord's statement with Paul's?

There are probably good ways to reconcile the two. But before I even attempt that, we should consider one thing:

Paul was speaking within the bounds supplied by scripture and the words of Christ, not the other way around. If we think there is a problem in aligning two passages that we believe should align, and one of them consists of the words of Christ, then the other passage must be understood within the context of Christ's words.

Of course, the problem really is context.

Jesus was speaking concerning the sins of the Jewish leaders within the context of a nation that was still, at some level, a theocracy. Yes, they were governed by a distant Roman rule and local puppets of that rule. But there still existed the Jewish courts. You could still be hauled before the Sanhedrin. Despite the presence of many non-Jews, it was still the Jewish nation.

Paul is speaking to churches outside of the Jewish nation and admonishing them to avoid taking one another to the civil courts. The dispute is not a matter of civil law, but of brother-to-brother.

And, like in Jerusalem and Israel, there may be others present, but a dispute within the body, even if seen from the outside, is not taking the matter to the civil court. The ruling, whatever it will be, will come from within the church, not from the state.

To declare that there is a "court of opinion" and that must be avoided is only partly true. The true part is that the correct spiritual resolution is not simply a matter of opinion — even among Christians only. But it is not true because the opinion — official or otherwise — by the outside observers (including any worldly court) is not welcome or accepted. (That does not mean that the world cannot arrive at the same conclusion — only that the church will arrive at its own conclusion regardless of the opinion of the world at large.)

One question for you.

You have raised the issue here with the apparent intent of convincing us that we should not be having these discussions. Would you care to state your position on the lawsuits by the LSM and the Local Churches (and Lee in earlier years) against so many Christian organizations and people? Were these proper according to scripture?

[Cal]

I didn't expect for a minute for you to agree with me.

You are entitled to your opinion and you've made your point. However, you have produced anything but a proof text.