Where do we go from here?

[Toledo]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Anyway, we can go round-and-round here. If Toledo wants to clarify what he meant by "personal experience of Christ" he is welcome to do so.

No, I do not care to do so. I stopped contributing to this thread.

I have given 35 years of my life to follow the Lord Jesus in the local churches. To learn something of the hidden, dirty things of the Living Stream Ministry office has served as a discouragement to me. Especially as it comes at a time when that office is causing such open disruption amongst the churches. Right now there are divisions caused by LSM in hundreds of local churches, including more than a half dozen churches in which I have personally labored.

I came to this site because I was looking for some help in how to go on, and how to care for those brothers who are meeting with me. Instead I got the parsing of sentences, deliberate misunderstanding, and a focus on the misdeeds of the past.

Frankly, I don't much care about how the LSM brothers have twisted and distorted the riches of Christ for their own aggrandizement. I have never particularly looked to any of them for guidance. Nor have I ever considered myself to be under authority to any of them. We all must appear before the judgment seat of Christ. I hope I will not be standing to close to them on that day.

I am looking for a way to go on. I am struggling to consider what items to retain of my experience and of the teachings I have received, and what items to let go. For me, Christ has to be the center, and the appreciation of His riches must become a part of my daily walk. My concerns have to do with the care of all the dear saints with me who have been distressed, disturbed, and damaged, yet have remained faithful to follow the Lord.

Focusing on the sins of a dead man and of his ungodly son, and biting and devouring one another do not seem to be a way I care to follow. Thus, allow me as well to offer my apologies to those whom I may have offended. I am often too hasty with my words, and sometimes my colloquial expressions bring a hurt I did not intend. I endeavor to keep my heart open to you all.

Much love in Christ,

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by Toledo

I have given 35 years of my life to follow the Lord Jesus in the local churches. To learn something of the hidden, dirty things of the Living Stream Ministry office has served as a discouragement to me.

I came to this site because I was looking for some help in how to go on, and how to care for those brothers who are meeting with me.

Frankly, I don't much care about how the LSM brothers have twisted and distorted the riches of Christ for their own aggrandizement. We all must appear before the judgment seat of Christ.I hope I will not be standing to close to them on that day.

I am looking for a way to go on. I am struggling to consider what items to retain of my experience and of the teachings I have received, and what items to let go. For me, Christ has to be the center, and the appreciation of His riches must become a part of my daily walk.

Toledo,
I don't post much anymore..and I barely scan through the threads as most of them don't interest me either.

I was not in the LC as long as most people here were but it did affect me like it affected everyone else.

Just a couple of comments..... first off I chuckled at your statement I hope I will not be standing to close to them on that day. When each of us stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ, we will be in our Glorified bodies. We'll be getting our rewards. If you see them, you won't see them through painful eyes. I'm sure you already know this...just wanted to console you just the same.

The main thing that has helped me move forward is being conscientious of not using the LSM/LC jargon. I noticed your term 'looking for a way to go on'

I had to work hard to get away from the phrases used such as "these ones", "we're going on" and "O LORD! What about so and so?"..

I also stopped addressing everyone as 'brother' or 'sister'. We are of course brethren in Christ and there is a TIME and Place for addressing one another as Brother or Sister...but we're also men and women of God and ladies and gentlemen in Christ.

Pray reading the way we used to. Praying the Word of God back to Him is excellent for sure but with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, look for a fresh way of praying the Word back to the Lord. Look for new scriptures to pray back to Him. Unfamiliar ones.

Talk to the Father. Talk to the Son. Talk to the Holy Spirit.

Obviously they are ONE God. But I learned a lot about the Holy Spirit the last couple of years. I thought I knew Him but I didn't. I was accustomed to praying to the Lord Jesus Christ only. Of course I knew I had the Holy Spirit in me. I confess to my shame I did not know the Holy Spirit like I knew the Lord Jesus though...and I knew the Father even less. I'm still getting to know our Heavenly Father.

The Trinity of the Godhead is complex to our earthly minds but I have found the more I pray to the Lord Jesus, seek Guidance and Counsel from our Comforter the Holy Spirit, listen and OBEY His Leading...pouring my love, & Praise with Thanksgiving to the Father through our Lord Jesus Christ and HIS HOLY SPIRIT...acknowledging each member of the Godhead, the closer I have been getting to the Lord..and His Word is enlightening me, renewing my mind, transforming me from Glory to Glory.

Go to Christian book stores, Borders or B & N and check out different subject matters that might interest you. Search & google different topics on the internet too.

And remember.....FORGIVE those who have trespassed against us. Doesn't mean we make them our best friends!....just Forgive them...it is hard at times but that's why we ask our HELPER..Jesus and His Holy Spirit to HELP us forgive those we don't want to forgive.

May the LORD draw you nearer and dearer to HIM as we await and LOOK for His Glorious Appearing which is Sooooooon!

[Hope]

Originally Posted by Toledo

...I have given 35 years of my life to follow the Lord Jesus in the local churches. To learn something of the hidden, dirty things of the Living Stream Ministry office has served as a discouragement to me. Especially as it comes at a time when that office is causing such open disruption amongst the churches. Right now there are divisions caused by LSM in hundreds of local churches, including more than a half dozen churches in which I have personally labored.

Greetings Dear Brother in Christ, Toledo,

Ps 66:12 Thou didst make men ride over our heads; We went through fire and through water; Yet Thou didst bring us out into a place of abundance.

Your theme verse is exactly the same verse the Lord gave me in 1987. It was my wistful longing for a while, became my hope and is becoming my current reality.

I know what your post is expressing. I can imagine the pain you must be experiencing as you see dear ones in the GLA suffering due to the LSM etc. I fully understand your concern for the well being of the brethren you know and have been with. I also understand the sighing and shaking of your head when you have run into the following on this forum, “Instead I got the parsing of sentences, deliberate misunderstanding, and a focus on the misdeeds of the past.”

Your are in a sometimes befuddling cross fire. The LSM zealots declare all is wonderful with “the ministry,” (whatever that means?) [Side bar: my old friend Don Looper used to tell me to pay no attention to the shouting by many of being “one with the ministry” as who knows what in the world that means to them.] Anyway, on one side are the LSM disciples who allow no discouraging word. On the other side are some on this forum who declare burn it burn it down to the ground. If you attempt to seek the Lord for His way without respect for persons, the LSM says you are negative. If you desire to give credit where credit is due, then you are a target for some on the forum. (Dear forum posters, Toledo is an elder in a local church. That is even worse than being a former elder. Feel free to parse his words and to misunderstand and shoot him down at will. Any and all free shots are allowed.)

Toledo, as far as I am concerned, you have offended no one and took advantage of no one. I appreciate your ability to graciously express your own experience without allowing others to put you in a pigeon hole and dismiss what you share.
Come see us sometimes down here in North Carolina. Your portion will be received and your visit would be a blessing to us all. We are just your poor country cousins but we are wide open to you brothers in the GLA and to any help and encouragement you can give us.

In fact, while I am issuing invitations, how about some of you other dear GLA saints, Suannehill, Norm, Ohio, Peter Debelak, AndPeter, Speakerscorner and any others whom I have not mentioned or recognized. Y’all come see us. Peter Debelak please invite your dad.

Your brother in Christ Jesus,

Hope, Don Rutledge, a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ who is seeking to be a true disciple

[UntoHim]

Originally Posted by Hope

Your are in a sometimes befuddling cross fire. The LSM zealots declare all is wonderful with “the ministry,” (whatever that means?) ... Anyway, on one side are the LSM disciples who allow no discouraging word. On the other side are some on this forum who declare burn it burn it down to the ground.

Witness Lee was right about one thing.... Christ is indeed "VERSUS" religion. If nothing else, we know from our Local Church experience that when we get tangled up in religion we will find ourselves in opposition to Christ Himself. It is an absolute. The problem is that there is a difference between religion and religious men. (kinda the ole love the sinner, hate the sin thing) We see from the record in the gospels that Christ was in fact viciously and actively versus religion - especially the religion that men had invented that had replaced the genuine thing. He befuddled a whole lot of people, let me tell you.

In a sense the Lord Jesus was shouting out.."burn it, burn it to the ground!" and this befuddled a whole lot of people. He did not demand or even ask for the temple to be burned to the ground - rather He told them that they had turned turned His Father's house into a house a merchandise. I'm quite certain that there were a number a hired hands to make sure there were no "discouraging words" bantered about near the temple in those days.

[UntoHim]

Originally Posted by Toledo

I have given 35 years of my life to follow the Lord Jesus in the local churches. To learn something of the hidden, dirty things of the Living Stream Ministry office has served as a discouragement to me. Especially as it comes at a time when that office is causing such open disruption amongst the churches. Right now there are divisions caused by LSM in hundreds of local churches, including more than a half dozen churches in which I have personally labored.

Thank you Toledo for your heartfelt post. Having given about 20 years of my life to follow the Lord Jesus in the local churches myself, I can relate. Even though I am sort of “on the other side of then fence” now, so to speak, I can still relate in a major way. Many of your posts have caused me to have a strong realization that “the fence” between us is not something of my doing, and it is certainly not of your doing. How much of the fence is something of God as opposed to something of man is not completely clear at this point. It is probably a little of both. Anyway, the very things you have experienced over the recent years were the very things that placed me on the other side of the fence so many years ago. Yet you feel before the Lord to remain and hold to a certain standing. I can understand and appreciate this as well, and I want you and the others out there to know this.

I came to this site because I was looking for some help in how to go on, and how to care for those brothers who are meeting with me. Instead I got the parsing of sentences, deliberate misunderstanding, and a focus on the misdeeds of the past.

[COLOR=Blue]As the originator, and for now the lone administrator, of this forum this saddens me more then you could know. I came to the Bereans Apologetic forum about 5 years ago for very similar reasons. I took over as moderator there for very similar reasons as well, and then tried my best to see that an acceptable atmosphere was fostered for people who were “looking for some help in how to go on”. Admittedly I did so partially for selfish reasons because I was looking for some help in how to go on myself. I still am. Anyway, I had the very same hopes and dreams for this little adventure here. Due to some rather significant health setbacks I have not been able to contribute and nurse this forum along like any good administrator should do. I am on the mend now and hope to make up for lost time in the very near future. (probably not good news to some!).

Frankly, I don't much care about how the LSM brothers have twisted and distorted the riches of Christ for their own aggrandizement. I have never particularly looked to any of them for guidance. Nor have I ever considered myself to be under authority to any of them. We all must appear before the judgment seat of Christ. I hope I will not be standing to close to them on that day.

Wow, pretty heavy duty stuff, and a pretty sad commentary regarding these brothers who consider themselves to be “brother Lee’s continuation”. Be of good cheer though my brother, for I boldly proclaim that the real riches of Christ can never actually be twisted, distorted or hidden in any way for long – we have them before us now in the sacred pages of His Holy and abiding Word. They are rich, they are complete and thanks to God and the blood, sweat and tears of many dear saints they are still available. Most importantly, it is these very Words that we will be judged by at the judgment seat and not the mere words of any man or group of mortal men. Also we shall be rewarded or punished on how we received, lived by and obeyed these Words, and not by the words of any man or group of men.

I am looking for a way to go on. I am struggling to consider what items to retain of my experience and of the teachings I have received, and what items to let go. For me, Christ has to be the center, and the appreciation of His riches must become a part of my daily walk. My concerns have to do with the care of all the dear saints with me who have been distressed, disturbed, and damaged, yet have remained faithful to follow the Lord.

[COLOR=Blue]Again, thank you for these heartfelt words. I hope and pray that this forum can be a place that can develop into something that helps (more then hinders) you in your effort to help the dear saints with you. Eventually, maybe it could even become a resource to actually assist them to follow the Lord. Believe it or not, this is what I hope and pray for more then anything else. May God bless you and anyone else who comes here to assist in this effort.

Focusing on the sins of a dead man and of his ungodly son, and biting and devouring one another do not seem to be a way I care to follow.

I would agree wholeheartedly... if it were not for the fact that this dead man and his ungodly son so deeply impacted the lives of many thousands of God’s people, and the fact that they virtually created a religion out of thin air that drew away many thousands of God’s people to themselves. I know you would not state the history of the Local Church movement in these stark terms, but it is becoming clear that the major sins of this dead man, and to a lesser extent the pollution added by his ungodly son, have been biting and devouring away at the Local Church movement since the very beginning. While it should not be the main focus, neither will these matters be buried and ignored as if they are insignificant or irrelevant – for this is exactly how the Local Church got to be where it is today.

Thus, allow me as well to offer my apologies to those whom I may have offended. I am often too hasty with my words, and sometimes my colloquial expressions bring a hurt I did not intend. I endeavor to keep my heart open to you all.

Thank you brother.

[SpeakersCorner]

I've enjoyed the last batch of posts. Toledo, yours touched me deeply.

My experience in the local churches has never been easy nor has it been typical. I am an outlier in more ways than one. In many ways, I've had a love-hate relationship with the LC from day one. Toledo, you know I speak the truth.

But despite my grudging going on, and my curmudgeonly ways here on the forums, and despite my antipathy for that group in Anaheim which is now just a distant reality to me, despite all that has gone before I do believe this winding path I went through was led by the Spirit. And I believe it was the same for all of us.

Hence I have no desire to subvert that experience with bitterness, anger, or even logic (my own, whether it's good or not). The experience was precious and it has led me to this day.

More and more, I realize that Christ must be the center of everything. During the past election I spent way too much time reading blogs, polls, and opinions. In the end all it got me was another day older and deeper in debt (figuratively, you know). The world I see before me is drifting and soon rushing downstream to a meaninglessness of meaninglessnesses. I have spent countless hours trying to figure out where I stand today. And most of that time has been as wasted as those hours reading political opinion. Instead, I must simply declare Christ. That is all I know, Christ and Him crucified.

I have had a chance to do that twice in the past month, not that much, I know, but what a refreshing thing it was both times. I yearn the Lord would bring me into contact with more and more athiests, agnostics, and sinners in general.

Oh, and by the way, since we're all apologizing here (except Igzy ... come on, Ig, you can do it), sorry for my many offensive words and aggressive attitudes.

Maybe I will come down to visit you, Hope, in North Carolina. I am planning to head that way (Morgantown or is it Morganton? Gotta check) next spring. How far is that from y'all, as they say?

And Matt, don't stop at two: it's too binary, too tree of knowledgy. Have three like I did. Then the fights are always two against one which makes them more interesting.


SC

[Indiana]

Toledo Quote

- I have given 35 years of my life to follow the Lord Jesus in the local churches. To learn something of the hidden, dirty things of the Living Stream Ministry office has served as a discouragement to me. Especially as it comes at a time when that office is causing such open disruption amongst the churches. Right now there are divisions caused by LSM in hundreds of local churches, including more than a half dozen churches in which I have personally labored.

….I came to this site because I was looking for some help in how to go on, and how to care for those brothers who are meeting with me. Instead I got the parsing of sentences, deliberate misunderstanding, and a focus on the misdeeds of the past. – my emphasis


- I received an email this week from a quarantined brother in the Far East who I had referred to recently in a post. He had been quite perplexed over a year ago by LSM’s divisive behavior, but was also helped to understand that they have a long history of such behavior. Instead of being critical of “the focus on the misdeeds of the past”, he was thankful to know and to understand the track record. He was also released to minister Christ and build up the Body, free from a program, and focus on a man and a ministry and the control of brother Wee, and according to the leading of the Holy Spirit. A few months ago he and Don Hardy visited underground gatherings in China. Don, at 77 years old, said it was the most enjoyment of Christ he has had in his life.

Johnny's email - Dear Bro.Steve Isitt....praise the Lord! in His U.S.A.(Unique Sovereign Authority) i met a bro. from california today for dinner...we BOTH have a same feeling that the "LSM" really 'destroy' the LR.....too sad, now lots of BS family members are meeting in many different 'places' thru out the globe...what we need is JUST PRAY....HE will build His Church.

We suggest you schedule to come on 20th April,2009 to join my college graduation ceremony and the launching of the Book written by sis. Jane Chen, where Br. Don will be present as well....and after the celebrations, we go to the North and Thailand to visit the saints before we fly to TAIWN/HongKong and enter China thru Shenzhen/Macau...then we go 'in depth' the mainland with the local brothers there...BUT ONLY supplying CHRIST. Amen.

much prayer needed.
JC

Johnny had attended a conference recently with Titus in Taiwan and about 100 quarantined brothers in the Far East.

[Toledo]

Originally Posted by Indiana

He had been quite perplexed over a year ago by LSM’s divisive behavior, but was also helped to understand that they have a long history of such behavior. Instead of being critical of “the focus on the misdeeds of the past”, he was thankful to know and to understand the track record. He was also released to minister Christ and build up the Body, free from a program, and focus on a man and a ministry and the control of brother Wee, and according to the leading of the Holy Spirit.

Please do not misunderstand me. I realize how important it is to be set free from the chains of the LSM in every aspect of its ministry and control. For that setting free, few things are quite so helpful as the realization of the series of unrepented unrighteous deeds that issued from that source.

I guess the point of my musings is that having now learned of the sins and errors of the past, and having thus been set free from the control of the Local Church Denomination and its ministry office, how then do we proceed? It is not enough to rehash again and again the errors of the LSM, I got to know that (or some of that) already. Having seen it, I don't need to be constantly reminded of it. What I need is a view for the future.

I am not prepared to believe before the Lord that I've wasted 35 years of labor in the word, in the gospel, with the saints, building up in love. I don't feel content just to drop everything and go back to being a Presbyterian or a Pentecostal. Nor do I care to go on with any sort of remaining entanglement in the Recovery falsely so-called.

I do appreciate your remarks above: "released to minister Christ and build up the Body, free from a program, and focus on a man and a ministry and the control of brother Wee, and according to the leading of the Holy Spirit."

That may well be the sort of word I have been looking for.

[Indiana]

Toledo shared,

“I do appreciate your remarks above: "released to minister Christ and build up the Body, free from a program, and focus on a man and a ministry and the control of brother Wee, and according to the leading of the Holy Spirit."”That may well be the sort of word I have been looking for.”


- I like this experience and testimony by brother Johnny also; My sense is that he and Don Hardy could be overcomers; seriously, brothers; they are not caught up; they just move……….and they do so in love.


They are exposing to me. They are both relentless, Don counting his days, and Johnny, denying status and wealth in laying down his life for.................

[Suannehill]

Originally Posted by Toledo

...

I am not prepared to believe before the Lord that I've wasted 35 years of labor in the word, in the gospel, with the saints, building up in love. I don't feel content just to drop everything and go back to being a Presbyterian or a Pentecostal. Nor do I care to go on with any sort of remaining entanglement in the Recovery falsely so-called...

Great summary Toledo!
That's a feeling from many. I only want to rehash that stuff to help someone else.

[UntoHim]

Originally Posted by Toledo

Please do not misunderstand me. I realize how important it is to be set free from the chains of the LSM in every aspect of its ministry and control. For that setting free, few things are quite so helpful as the realization of the series of unrepented unrighteous deeds that issued from that source.

I guess the point of my musings is that having now learned of the sins and errors of the past, and having thus been set free from the control of the Local Church Denomination and its ministry office, how then do we proceed? It is not enough to rehash again and again the errors of the LSM, I got to know that (or some of that) already. Having seen it, I don't need to be constantly reminded of it. What I need is a view for the future.

I am not prepared to believe before the Lord that I've wasted 35 years of labor in the word, in the gospel, with the saints, building up in love. I don't feel content just to drop everything and go back to being a Presbyterian or a Pentecostal. Nor do I care to go on with any sort of remaining entanglement in the Recovery falsely so-called.

I do appreciate your remarks above: "released to minister Christ and build up the Body, free from a program, and focus on a man and a ministry and the control of brother Wee, and according to the leading of the Holy Spirit."

That may well be the sort of word I have been looking for.

----------------------------------------------

I have a request - mostly for Toledo - but others can chime in as well.

I would like permission to move this post and make it a discussion starter thread on the board entitled "Oh Lord, where do we go from here".

"What I need is a view for the future" - I really, really appreciate the honesty here. This is what we ALL want. Nobody likes stepping into the unknown, especially us oldies but goodies out here. (we're kinda set in our ways ya know) And nobody likes the idea that they have wasted decades of their life. Yet we also don't want to go back to something or some place which we consider to be in error from the truth.

Are we all simply "between a rock and hard place" with nowhere to go? Since we can't actually change the past or turn the clock back we are stuck to deal with reality (darn-darn, I hate that). This is where the DISCUSSION part comes into play. This is why this forum is called LocalChurchDISUSSIONS.com! If I wanted to just blast everybody with my personal opinions (even though they're the best), I could have saved myself a lot of heartache, time and expense by setting up one of those one-sided blogs and then just rant away.

In short, my hope is that so many of the threads here will develop into places where we find ourselves talking WITH each other more then talking AT each other (there is a difference...I think) I can talk at you....you can talk at me...but it's not nearly as profitable (or fun) as when we talk with each other. I consider this post by Toledo an excellent example of somebody wanted to talk WITH us, and not AT us.

Of course this forum will also allow for other kinds of postings as well.

Ok, off my soapbox.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Toledo

I guess the point of my musings is that having now learned of the sins and errors of the past, and having thus been set free from the control of the Local Church Denomination and its ministry office, how then do we proceed? It is not enough to rehash again and again the errors of the LSM, I got to know that (or some of that) already. Having seen it, I don't need to be constantly reminded of it. What I need is a view for the future.

Toledo,

I'm sure this board is not the sum total of the fellowship you are having now, but if it is, you are probably going to get a larger ratio of LSM bashing than you need. That's a big part of what goes on here, because people are working out their feelings and beliefs about that group and that takes being frank about their failings. If the bashing seems repetitive it's because some haven't gotten through it yet, or there are new people who need to hear it for the first time.

As to going on, that's a broad subject. I mean, basically it means living the Christian life. It means following the Lord from wherever you happen to be, whether it's in prison, getting over the death of a loved one, or coming out of a overwhelming group. In all cases we have to reach out to God and look to Him for answers. That's the only formula.

God's calling to all of us is the same--to let Him rule our lives and to be his ambassadors. We have to do that from wherever we find ourselves. We don't need a perfect "church life" to do it. Often we must do it in the context of a very imperfect church life. But God is looking for people to, in the midst of the chaos which is human existence, to be lights for him.

For years after leaving the LC, I tried to impose LC rules on myself in the churches I joined. There were two aspect of this: One was seeking the stamp of approval of leadership (to be "under" and "one"), the other was seeking to "build the church" (which meant being focused on having a ministry among the members). This always led to frustration.

Finally I realized I needed to drop my old concept of service happening within the context of a church and for a church and just serve wherever I could. I regularly meet with some guys, some who attend my church and some who don't. When we get together we just fellowship and minister. I don't think about whether I'm being "one" with the church. I just minister as best I can. My pastor has no idea what I'm doing and I'm sure that in the sense of stamping me with approval he couldn't care less. Everything seems to work out fine, and the meeting is being richly blessed. I know the Lord is with us and I know the church is being built, His church that is.

In other words, lift up your eyes, the fields are white for harvest. I don't think the Lord is that concerned that we are operating under the proper authority channels in his Body, as the old LC canard goes. There are plenty of opportunities to serve, so many people in need of ministry. We just need to jump in. That's how to go on.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Toledo

I am looking for a way to go on. I am struggling to consider what items to retain of my experience and of the teachings I have received, and what items to let go. For me, Christ has to be the center, and the appreciation of His riches must become a part of my daily walk. My concerns have to do with the care of all the dear saints with me who have been distressed, disturbed, and damaged, yet have remained faithful to follow the Lord.

Focusing on the sins of a dead man and of his ungodly son, and biting and devouring one another do not seem to be a way I care to follow. Thus, allow me as well to offer my apologies to those whom I may have offended. I am often too hasty with my words, and sometimes my colloquial expressions bring a hurt I did not intend. I endeavor to keep my heart open to you all.

Toledo, thank you for your portion. I echo what Don has shared,

"Toledo, as far as I am concerned, you have offended no one and took advantage of no one."

From my point view regarding anyone on this forum, any offense through posts is never cause to cease or to cut off fellowship.

As for the late Witness Lee, he is no longer with us. He is still part of his history. It is a history that cannot be changed. It cannot be revised and nor should it be trivialized which is why I appreciate the efforts of Don in his writing. He brings out the positive and negative aspects of this history. For the record my educational passion is reared in history. History is a way of explaining the present by looking at the past.

There is a way to go on. We all the the Word of God. We on the forum may differ when it comes down to where to meet. The important thing I had to learn the last year and a half is the need to be built with other Christians. So I meet with a congregation that takes a name. I'd rather suffer the condescension than not to meet at all. If I learned anything from the local churches is that I don't want to know so much. I just want the basic fundamentals of our Christian faith.

With grace,

Terry

[Indiana]

TOLEDO QUOTE: I am looking for a way to go on. I am struggling to consider what items to retain of my experience and of the teachings I have received, and what items to let go. For me, Christ has to be the center, and the appreciation of His riches must become a part of my daily walk. My concerns have to do with the care of all the dear saints with me who have been distressed, disturbed, and damaged, yet have remained faithful to follow the Lord.

Focusing on the sins of a dead man and of his ungodly son, and biting and devouring one another do not seem to be a way I care to follow. END QUOTE


- The LCS thread is one I never got involved in. Toward the end, I read through the first 236 posts, then about ten in the middle and about ten in the end, where it stopped for a long time. I have to say I was not alarmed by the comments that provoked controversy. I felt that a principle was there to consider carefully.

As I listened to the Whistler quarantine session recently, with brothers once again parading to the podium as they did in 1990, words came back to me from this thread. "Drunk on Lee", "idol worship", I didn't know how else to explain the behavior of brothers like Dan Towle especially. Instead of referring to the word of God, it seemed to me I kept hearing, but brother Lee said, brother Lee's wishes were that... Then I get a call from a brother/friend in Seattle yesterday questioning me about my contact with John Ingalls that came to his ears, and he couldn't hear a word I said about the importance of misrepresentations of brothers in the past, and he simply relegated the subject to be a matter of ancient history. Such a brother has no interest in the truth. He is obsessed with Lee..."Drunk on Lee"? "Addicted to Lee"? "Idolatry"?... all are relevant possibilities.

It is much more than a matter of ancient history or of "focusing on the sins of a dead man and of his ungodly son". In essence, the dead man lives, and will continue to live - the BBs will see to that. "Brother Lee said.......... Brother Lee said................" Regardless, as Unto Him said,

...if it were not for the fact that this dead man and his ungodly son so deeply impacted the lives of many thousands of God’s people............................................ it is becoming clear that the major sins of this dead man, and to a lesser extent the pollution added by his ungodly son, have been biting and devouring away at the Local Church movement since the very beginning. While it should not be the main focus, neither will these matters be buried and ignored as if they are insignificant or irrelevant – for this is exactly how the Local Church got to be where it is today.

Terry has shared in response to a GLA brother:

As for the late Witness Lee, he is no longer with us. He is still part of his history. It is a history that cannot be changed. It cannot be revised and nor should it be trivialized which is why I appreciate the efforts of Don in his writing. He brings out the positive and negative aspects of this history. For the record my educational passion is reared in history. History is a way of explaining the present by looking at the past.



- In the GLA as well as in Taiwan there are many disillusioned saints seeking help and direction in the aftermath of division and quarantines brought on by LSM. Over a hundred quarantined brothers met with Titus a couple of months ago to determine, hopefully, the right direction for their spiritual lives.

One of those brothers who met with Titus has thanked me for helping him understand the history of deviation in the LSM dominated churches that has been going on for many, many years. He is really very thankful – and freed to know the truth and even to embrace it. He is also going on exceedingly well in his freedom to minister Christ, in his locality and in his travels to meet with suffering saints, according to the truth he has embraced. This is much different than the response in the Great Lakes area over the couple of years I have been on a forum. I sense no freedom there and don't expect to till their so-called leaders can respond with a conscience, integrity, and a spiritual backbone to the truth before God and man, and the churches they represent.

[Former LC member]

I do so enjoy the way people fellowship here. Sometimes polemic, sometimes arguing, sometimes binding each others wounds. This is indead a healthy sign. And at all times being frank and open.
I think of David and his wandering in the wilderness. He sometimes complained, sometimes praised, sometimes wept, and yet at the end of that time, he was a man after God's own heart. This is where I want to end up, and it is my hope.
Like Toledo, I don't like to focus too much on the negative things of the past. I want to find a way to go on. But thank God for this forum, where we can all meet and support each other through the various stages that we are passing through- Be it complaining or rejoicing, we can do it together and help each other forward towards the goal- to be people after God's own heart.

[UntoHim]

Originally Posted by Joanna Tysoe

... But thank God for this forum, where we can all meet and support each other through the various stages that we are passing through- Be it complaining or rejoicing, we can do it together and help each other forward towards the goal- to be people after God's own heart.

Thank you Joanna. Amen to the goal of being a people after God's own heart! We're all hungry - Maranatha! Come Lord Jesus, Come!