Leaving The Local Church Has Consequences

I know I have read it here, but after a search I haven't been able to find it...
Someone or perhaps multiple people have claimed that if you leave the LRC for whatever reason there will be consequences (poor health, inability to go on with the Lord, to grow spiritually, etc). Can anyone point me to an exact quote? I am thinking specifically about the physical/health consequences, but any examples are welcome. I am still in the LRC and have never heard such things...
Thanks.

[UntoHim]

As far as "inability to go on with the Lord", here's a real doozy from Mr. Benson Phillips:
“In any case, do not leave the Lord’s recovery. I can assure you that if you go away from the Lord’s recovery, you will have no way for the process of sanctification to go forward within you. Instead, you will just enter into a bankrupt situation. I know of no one who has left the Lord’s recovery and today is a great spiritual person on the earth. The sanctification process is carried out in the Lord’s recovery”
(The Ministry Magazine Vol. 8, No. 1 Page 189, first paragraph)

As far as "physical/health consequences", I doubt you are going to find anything in writing and furthermore, this kind of talk was more a phenomenon back in the 70s, so you will have to look to some us oldie-but-goodie dinosaurs to confirm this.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

As far as "physical/health consequences", I doubt you are going to find anything in writing and furthermore, this kind of talk was more a phenomenon back in the 70s, so you will have to look to some us oldie-but-goodie dinosaurs to confirm this.

Unto is right. This was generally spoken in local meetings and maybe in regional conferences back when those were run mostly by the region rather than Anaheim (or LA before that).

And so many of the references to physical, health, or other non-spiritual issues was hemmed and hawed around. They would not assert that you would definitely get cancer and die. But they would speculate that it could have been the cause of some particular, unnamed brother from the early days getting some disease or being in a terrible accident.

Funny that it was never a reason to reconsider insiders who died in car accidents or from cancer. And there was a very dear brother in Arlington that died in a car crash many years ago. I would never suggest it was a spiritual statement about his condition with respect to Christ or the LRC.

But there was almost a hint of no surprise when the same was noted about Ransford in Ghana just two or three years back now. Since he had gone off with those who rejected the LSM edicts, it was not expected or declared to be so, but I could see the gears moving to classify it as evidence of the warning to stay in the LRC.

But I'm sure that the most you will find in the online LSM, if anything, will be a very nuanced hint at the possibility that there might be a slight chance of possibly . . .

You get the idea. It is not in writing. And Unto is right that even what those of us from much earlier days can tell you is vague and general. Nothing specific or definitive.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

As far as "inability to go on with the Lord", here's a real doozy from Mr. Benson Phillips:
“In any case, do not leave the Lord’s recovery. I can assure you that if you go away from the Lord’s recovery, you will have no way for the process of sanctification to go forward within you. Instead, you will just enter into a bankrupt situation. I know of no one who has left the Lord’s recovery and today is a great spiritual person on the earth. The sanctification process is carried out in the Lord’s recovery”
(The Ministry Magazine Vol. 8, No. 1 Page 189, first paragraph)

Lots of this stuff was edited out of the spoken ministry when published.

I was definitely held by fear of God's judgment based on all I was taught in the LC. Actually it was the departure of two well-respected brothers which released me from the bondage. I figured since God did not judge them, nor withdraw His presence, then the fear was not real.

After we left, most of us felt there was some "Toto" in our lives, which exposed the manipulating "Wizard" behind the curtain.

Thanks all. As I said, I am still in the LRC (whatever that means) and have never heard such things. I can't say I was surprised to hear the bits about not being able to go on with the Lord, but I was surprised to hear about the alleged health ramifications. It seems pretty untenable a claim and is understandable that it was made more locally by few rather than across the board. It's still sad though as I am sure it affected many. Thanks for the responses.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Thanks all. As I said, I am still in the LRC (whatever that means) and have never heard such things. I can't say I was surprised to hear the bits about not being able to go on with the Lord, but I was surprised to hear about the alleged health ramifications. It seems pretty untenable a claim and is understandable that it was made more locally by few rather than across the board. It's still sad though as I am sure it affected many. Thanks for the responses.

You have to understand the way it was presented to us. Someone who left the Recovery would come down with a terminal disease of some sort or some other malady would beset them. The story then would be told to us in the context of a warning, and we all "understood" the implications of the story.

If however, one of the many "faithful" brothers got sick or disaster befell his family, then we would hear how the "enemy's really attacking," and this event just proved how we alone were special to the Lord.

Originally Posted by UntoHim

As far as "inability to go on with the Lord", here's a real doozy from Mr. Benson Phillips:
. I know of no one who has left the Lord’s recovery and today is a great spiritual person on the earth."
(The Ministry Magazine Vol. 8, No. 1 Page 189, first paragraph)

I know of no one who hasn't left the Lord's Recovery and today is a great spiritual person on the earth!

Anyway Witness Lee himself taught that if you leave the LC you will receive God's divine retribution in the form of illness, car accidents, etc. This keeps people in fear and after you leave always looking over your shoulder and wondering if something goes wrong in your life if it was because you left the LC. It takes along time for this haunting feeling to disappear.

Originally Posted by alwayslearning

Anyway Witness Lee himself taught that if you leave the LC you will receive God's divine retribution in the form of illness, car accidents, etc.

This...saying something like this, I think, definitely needs a reference. Is there somewhere I can find this and show others, or is this just something you remember him saying/teaching? If he said it at a conference or training shouldn't it be available?

I've never been afraid to leave. I've thought of leaving. I'm figuring things out now.
Thanks

Originally Posted by Unregistered

This...saying something like this, I think, definitely needs a reference. Is there somewhere I can find this and show others, or is this just something you remember him saying/teaching? If he said it at a conference or training shouldn't it be available?

I've never been afraid to leave. I've thought of leaving. I'm figuring things out now.
Thanks

Yes he did teach this at conferences and he gave an example of someone who left the LC and shortly thereafter was killed in a car accident. He absolutely taught God's divine retribution for leaving the LC and also for "touching God's government" meaning him.

Whether this is currently available in print is another matter. Due to their more recent public relations attempts to make themselves appear more mainstream they might have edited it out. Regardless Benson Phillips' teaching about not being sanctified if you leave the LC is enough to give you a taste of their attitude. Their practice of calling people who leave lepers, etc. is another indicator.

If you leave quietly and are not a main "player" in the LC system they might leave you alone and just write you off as a Demas.

[UntoHim]

As we noted earlier:

Originally Posted by UntoHim

As far as "physical/health consequences", I doubt you are going to find anything in writing and furthermore, this kind of talk was more a phenomenon back in the 70s, so you will have to look to some us oldie-but-goodie dinosaurs to confirm this.

Originally Posted by OBW

Unto is right. This was generally spoken in local meetings and maybe in regional conferences back when those were run mostly by the region rather than Anaheim (or LA before that).
But I'm sure that the most you will find in the online LSM, if anything, will be a very nuanced hint at the possibility that there might be a slight chance of possibly . . .
You get the idea. It is not in writing. And Unto is right that even what those of us from much earlier days can tell you is vague and general. Nothing specific or definitive.

I'm sure had there been iPhones and digital voice recorders back in the day we could provide you with the evidence you seek. However I don't think one needs to be jumping to conclusions to read Benson Phillips' quote here and assume that what was said behind closed doors could be much, much worse....and I'm here to tell you that it absolutely was. It took me YEARS to get over the psychological fear that was instilled within. Most of the older members now know that this is a kind of old wives tale...just as many current members get into car accidents and die of cancer as former members.

Of course the "cure" for this kind of nonsense, as always, is the Word of God:
And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell. Matthew 10:28

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by alwayslearning

Whether this is currently available in print is another matter. Due to their more recent public relations attempts to make themselves appear more mainstream they might have edited it out. Regardless Benson Phillips' teaching about not being sanctified if you leave the LC is enough to give you a taste of their attitude. Their practice of calling people who leave lepers, etc. is another indicator.

Is this why they never allowed tape recorders in LSM's gatherings?

This enables them to say one thing to the attendants, and then print something more "benign" for general consumption.

Originally Posted by alwayslearning

Regardless Benson Phillips' teaching about not being sanctified if you leave the LC is enough to give you a taste of their attitude.

And where might I find this teaching? Maybe I am coming at this particular point too late in the game. maybe they've cleaned up any untoward remarks made in the past. I am looking into this because, as I said, I am in the LC and have never heard such things before. I was recently speaking with a friend of mine (also in the LC and also considering, to some extent, his place there) about what I'd read here and he was incredulous. Does anyone remember any verses they might have tried to use to back up such teachings?
Thanks again.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

As far as "inability to go on with the Lord", here's a real doozy from Mr. Benson Phillips:
“In any case, do not leave the Lord’s recovery. I can assure you that if you go away from the Lord’s recovery, you will have no way for the process of sanctification to go forward within you. Instead, you will just enter into a bankrupt situation. I know of no one who has left the Lord’s recovery and today is a great spiritual person on the earth. The sanctification process is carried out in the Lord’s recovery.”(The Ministry Magazine Vol. 8, No. 1 Page 189, first paragraph)

In a case of mistaken hypocrisy, LSM has also promised the "sanctification process" would be greatly facilitated by those who also purchase cemetery plots at the Grace Terrace Memorial Association (GTMA), which is part of Rose Hills Memorial Park in Whittier, CA where brother Witness Lee is now buried. How appropriately located, since this is one of LSM's "wittier" schemes for fleecing the saints.

This is from the "What A Spin" website ...

Is there a scriptural basis for the "sanctification" promised by Grace Terrace? The cemetery claims to be "an environment consistent with the sanctification and dignity … befitting the beloved saints of God." Yet where does the New Testament connect sanctification with cemeteries? Where does the Bible suggest the "Lord’s recovery" needs its own cemetery so saints can be buried close to Brother Lee? Is this cemetery project about sanctification or superstition?

Apparently "Leaving the LRC has consequences ..." and good ones indeed, as long as you die and have your future secured with a cemetery plot close to WL himself. Thanks Benson P. for "rightly dividing" the word of God -- we now have a clear word about how the sanctification process is being carried out in the Lord’s recovery.

.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Ohio

In a case of mistaken hypocrisy, LSM has also promised the "sanctification process" would be greatly facilitated by those who also purchase cemetery plots at the Grace Terrace Memorial Association (GTMA), which is part of Rose Hills Memorial Park in Whittier, CA where brother Witness Lee is now buried. How appropriately located, since this is one of LSM's "wittier" schemes for fleecing the saints.

Acess the link to view photos from Witness Lee's burual in 2004 at Grace Terrace.

http://www.blendedbody.com/_cl/local...WitnessLee.htm

[Paul Cox]

A grave next to bruuuther Lee. The ultimate, "it is here that we've ended our search."
You are either building your own dream, or somebody else's dream. Witness Lee had a dream. It's the world-wide domination of his ministry. We were misled to believe we had seen "The Vision." Actually, we were the victims of a cruel bait and switch. We were given a glimpse of the vision, but we blinked and there it was before us - consuming us, Witness Lee's dream. And as if its not bad enough that many held this delusion to their dying breath, good ole LSM has found a way to fleece the dead.

Even in death what LSM has to offer isn't just presented as another option. Above board, full disclosure, presented as an option, I'd have no problem with the concept. "We want to make some money, and here is a nice place to let your elements rest." But no, even in death, what LSM has to offer is presented as the be all that ends all.
P.C.

[alwayslearning]

Originally Posted by Paul Cox

Even in death what LSM has to offer isn't just presented as another option. Above board, full disclosure, presented as an option, I'd have no problem with the concept. "We want to make some money, and here is a nice place to let your elements rest." But no, even in death, what LSM has to offer is presented as the be all that ends all.
P.C.

Religion is big business. If you can cloak something in religious garb it adds perceived value to the credulous.

[james73]

Originally Posted by Ohio

In a case of mistaken hypocrisy, LSM has also promised the "sanctification process" would be greatly facilitated by those who also purchase cemetery plots at the Grace Terrace Memorial Association (GTMA), which is part of Rose Hills Memorial Park in Whittier, CA where brother Witness Lee is now buried. How appropriately located, since this is one of LSM's "wittier" schemes for fleecing the saints.

Interesting the GTMA website was down for a while, I thought maybe they'd realised what a terrible idea it was and shut it down but no, now it's back up revamped with some kind of "explanation" about GT, no doubt after many saints asked "what on earth is LSM doing getting involved with a cemetery?".

The answer, in typical LSM style (ie "we are the only ones to take a closer look at the situation in California's Cemeteries because we are the Funeral Directors of the Age, and we're going to give you some half truths which may or may not be true but, being LSM pyramid clones you are likely to just believe what we say. In any case, we're not going to mention specifics which we could easily be called out on, so we're just going to keep it quite vague, with a few mentions of our Lord Jesus for good measure, thanks and keep the cheques coming.").......

Many brothers and sisters in the Lord may wonder as to the need for such a project as Grace Terrace. Surely memorial parks like Rose Hills, and Forest Lawn, where many dear saints have been buried, can handle the practical needs of the believers in this regard. But a closer look reveals that the dignity and heritage of such facilities have been steadily eroded, until today, at least in this part of the country, cemeteries that serve the general public have often taken on a frivolous-even idolatrous atmosphere. At certain times of the year particularly, the setting has become altogether common, completely devoid of the sanctification that was such a part of the testimony of the believers during their lifetime. The Bible clearly points us to the importance that the saints of old afforded the matter of their earthly resting-place.

[Dang I came onto this thread to ask a question about staying in the LC and got totally sidetracked by this.]

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by james73

[Dang I came onto this thread to ask a question about staying in the LC and got totally sidetracked by this.]

Sorry ... James73 ... I get carried away at times.

[james73]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Sorry ... James73 ... I get carried away at times.

no no, sidetracked is good! carried away is also good!

[Nell]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

As far as "inability to go on with the Lord", here's a real doozy from Mr. Benson Phillips:
“In any case, do not leave the Lord’s recovery. I can assure you that if you go away from the Lord’s recovery, you will have no way for the process of sanctification to go forward within you. Instead, you will just enter into a bankrupt situation. I know of no one who has left the Lord’s recovery and today is a great spiritual person on the earth. The sanctification process is carried out in the Lord’s recovery”
(The Ministry Magazine Vol. 8, No. 1 Page 189, first paragraph) ...

The classic.

[Raptor]

Some of you may have even considered that you should leave the church life. Yet you realized that if you left, it would be terrible. (Perfecting Training, Chapter 19, Section 3)

Once we lose the church, we will lose the power in our gospel preaching. Can there be any power in the visitation carried out by those who have left the church? There will not be much power, because those who are visiting have severed themselves from the Body. (Taking Christ as Our Person for the Church Life, Chapter 14, Section 3)

However, some have tried to pour cold water on this truth and have even left the church. They not only have lost the blessing of the church, but they have fallen to the point that they even oppose the blessings that God is bestowing on the church. However, once a person leaves this ground, he begins to oppose the blessings received by the church. It is a strange thing that when a person leaves the ground of the church, regardless of what the Lord has done in the church and regardless of what happens in the church, he can only criticize and oppose. This is a pitiful situation. This indicates that in order to receive God's shepherding, we must be in the church. Once we lose the church, we lose the Lord's shepherding. In contrast, a person loses the blessing when he loses the ground of the church. (Taking Christ as Our Person for the Church Life, Chapter 14, Section 2)

We have observed one thing over the years: when a person is in the church, he is blessed, but when he leaves the church, he loses the blessing. Over the past nearly forty years, every person who has left the ground and the practical living of the church has lost the Lord's blessing, even if his reasons were justifiable. Regardless of how much we feel that we are right and that the church is wrong, once we separate ourselves from the church, there are serious consequences. (Taking Christ as Our Person for the Church Life, Chapter 14, Section 1)

But it is quite a different matter to leave the church. If you forsake the church, your joy will disappear and will not return until you return to God's testimony. I do not say this lightly. Without exception, those who have left the church have lost their joy. (Life-Study of Genesis, Chapter 54, Section 2)

If you leave the church life, you will be defeated. Like a piece of driftwood that cannot control its direction but is carried along by the current, you will drift with the tide of this age and float downward until you find yourself in a wicked city. (Life-Study of Genesis, Chapter 54, Section 3)

, I know of many cases of those who experienced the very opposite of this as a result of leaving the church life. Their conscience began to lose its function, and the negative and worldly things they had put off gradually returned. The Genuine Ground of Oneness, Chapter 3, Section 5)

If you check with those who have left the church life, you will find that they have been deprived of the enjoyment of the all-inclusive Christ (Life-Study of Colossians, Chapter 25, Section 2)

Whoever is for the church has the best marriage life, but the family life and the marriage life of those who have left the church go downhill. (Elders' Training, Book 03: The Way to Carry Out the Vision, Chapter 6, Section 1)

Hence, for a believer to leave the church is a kind of punishment. Once a person stops meeting with the church for two or three weeks, immediately he stops growing. If he does not meet for two years, he will become like a child again. If he stops attending the meetings for another three years, he will be nearly finished in his spiritual life. (Truth, Life, the Church, and the Gospel—The Four Great Pillars in the Lord's Recovery, Chapter 9, Section 2)

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by Raptor

Hence, for a believer to leave the church is a kind of punishment. Once a person stops meeting with the church for two or three weeks, immediately he stops growing. If he does not meet for two years, he will become like a child again. If he stops attending the meetings for another three years, he will be nearly finished in his spiritual life. (Truth, Life, the Church, and the Gospel—The Four Great Pillars in the Lord's Recovery, Chapter 9, Section 2)

There is some truth to all you quoted here, if we don't consider the "church" here as equaling the LC. That is, if we forsake the assembling of ourselves together, there is definitely reduced growth for us I think. That's because believers were not created as Lone Rangers, but rather as members of the body.

Of course, in the context this was originally shared in, it was supposed to mean if you left the LC, then you would loose-out majorly. This is completely untrue.

[Freedom]

When reading through these WL quotes, something caught my attention. It's almost as if WL admitted that leaving the "church life" was something that plenty of people in the LC have thought about. And of course he never ventured near that subject of why people would be thinking about doing that in the first place.

Here's one of the main problems with the LC - they insist on doing things in a very specific and particular way. There is no room for flexibility, opinions or dissent. In any such environment, there is going to be a large amount of turnover. LC history attests to this. Who knows how many tens of thousands of members have left over the years.

So the real thing that is leading people to have the consideration of whether or not to leave is the inflexibility of the LC. That's not the fault of the rank and file members, but the fault of the people who are in charge. So it's obviously wrong when any group tries to imply that leaving may have consequences. It becomes downright abusive when they make that kind of suggestion in an environment that few people would even want to be a part of.

As far as "physical/health consequences", I doubt you are going to find anything in writing and furthermore, this kind of talk was more a phenomenon back in the 70s, so you will have to look to some us oldie-but-goodie dinosaurs to confirm this.

I was in Church in Anaheim for a period of time and attended few largest conferences but Praise the Lord, I am Free from LC. While i was in CIA (Church in Anahiem) I heard one of leading brother said "In any case, do not leave the Lord’s recovery. I can assure you that if you go away from the Lord’s recovery, you will have no way for the process of sanctification to go forward within you. Instead, you will just enter into a bankrupt situation. I know of no one who has left the Lord’s recovery and today is a great spiritual person on the earth. The sanctification process is carried out in the Lord’s recovery” during a Sunday gathering. Other leading brothers agreed and added "I can assure you that if you leave LC, your salvation will no longer exist and you will not be in Heaven with the Lord." They also said "Other Bible translations are useless and they do not have the same depth as Recovery version. If you read non-Recovery version, you need destroy non-Recovery Bible and ONLY Read / own Recovery version Bible"

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I was in Church in Anaheim for a period of time and attended few largest conferences but Praise the Lord, I am Free from LC. While i was in CIA (Church in Anahiem) I heard one of leading brother said "In any case, do not leave the Lord’s recovery. I can assure you that if you go away from the Lord’s recovery, you will have no way for the process of sanctification to go forward within you. Instead, you will just enter into a bankrupt situation. I know of no one who has left the Lord’s recovery and today is a great spiritual person on the earth. The sanctification process is carried out in the Lord’s recovery” during a Sunday gathering. Other leading brothers agreed and added "I can assure you that if you leave LC, your salvation will no longer exist and you will not be in Heaven with the Lord." They also said "Other Bible translations are useless and they do not have the same depth as Recovery version. If you read non-Recovery version, you need destroy non-Recovery Bible and ONLY Read / own Recovery version Bible"

Sadly this hasn't changed. The co-workers are dead set against any other version of the Bible and any other Christian works, even if they speak out of the other side of their mouth and say otherwise.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

They also said "Other Bible translations are useless and they do not have the same depth as Recovery version. If you read non-Recovery version, you need destroy non-Recovery Bible and ONLY Read / own Recovery version Bible"

I used to think the RV was the best, and then I saw it was good, but not perfect. The RV is NOT a purely literal translation as some might want to think. And just like other translations, they used a certain "license" according to their understanding, to render passages accordingly.

The bottom-line is the RV is still read in our group (footnotes almost always excluded), but so are most all other versions (probably not the JW version . . .) - and the Greek/Hebrew is also reviewed closely. We're after original meaning, not another man's often flawed interpretation!

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

I used to think the RV was the best, and then I saw it was good, but not perfect. The RV is NOT a purely literal translation as some might want to think. And just like other translations, they used a certain "license" according to their understanding, to render passages accordingly.

The bottom-line is the RV is still read in our group (footnotes almost always excluded), but so are most all other versions (e.g., probably not the JW version . . .) - and the Greek/Hebrew is also reviewed closely. We're after original meaning, not another man's often flawed interpretation!

The RecVer was built upon the "foundation" of the ASV 1901, which in conjunction with the Revised Version (British) of 1887, tremendously improved the existing KJV. Once the King (James, of course) designated his own translation as the "Authorized" version, it stifled all improvements for almost 300 years. Meanwhile, Archeologists exploring the Mideast (preserved by desert climates) had unearthed far superior and earlier manuscripts of the Greek Text. Textual scholars became familiar with the original language of Koine Greek. (I read an interesting book years ago, From Egyptian Rubbish Heaps, on this topic)

Based on this ASV foundation, the Rec Vers (both Ingalls and Robichaux), the NASB, and others are built. Often I read the WEB, the World English Bible, mainly out of familiarity with the ASV "family" of versions.

Below is a chart of various English Versions which display various methods of translation style. To the far left would also be Knoch's Concordant Version. To the far right would be The Living Bible, which I was reading when I was wonderfully saved. Many new Christians started on the right, and slowly moved left over time. Except for obviously heretical versions, I believe all versions are pleasing to the Lord, as His desire is that all could know His word.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Below is a chart of various English Versions which display various methods of translation style. To the far left would also be Knoch's Concordant Version. To the far right would be The Living Bible, which I was reading when I was wonderfully saved. Many new Christians started on the right, and slowly moved left over time. Except for obviously heretical versions, I believe all versions are pleasing to the Lord, as His desire is that all could know His word.

Thanks for sharing that. It's hard to make out everything on that chart - is the RecV in there?

I typically use the New American Standard because of it's reputation for strong adherence to the original. However, even with it I've found things that didn't seem to be in the Greek. Just this weekend I looked up something in Ephesians 5 in the Greek, and didn't agree with how the NASB translated it at all! Therefore, I find myself going to an interlinear more and more (which I have on my phone BTW).

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I know I have read it here, but after a search I haven't been able to find it...
Someone or perhaps multiple people have claimed that if you leave the LRC for whatever reason there will be consequences (poor health, inability to go on with the Lord, to grow spiritually, etc). Can anyone point me to an exact quote? I am thinking specifically about the physical/health consequences, but any examples are welcome. I am still in the LRC and have never heard such things...
Thanks.

I heard this from RG. BTW I left the LRC 14 years ago (cough, cough) and am just barely hanging on (cough, cough).

Originally Posted by guest

I heard this from RG. BTW I left the LRC 14 years ago (cough, cough) and am just barely hanging on (cough, cough).

Omg! Me too, so sick, the sickest... In reality I have never been more physically, mentally, or emotionally sound. I am happy, accepted, successful, I am no longer crippled by constant fear. I stayed for years longer than I should have, purely out of fear of what I was told would happen to me when I left. I was miserable, isolated and bullied by the cliquish sisters in my locality, and dismissed and ignored by everyone else. It took so much strength to leave everything I had known behind me, especially because I’d been told I would face pain, death, and dissolution outside. I did not, the healing began almost immediately once the toxicity was no longer present. If I could change anything, I wish I’d left years earlier. And I’m only posting because I ran across this link and I feel leaving success stories are hidden and never shared. There are people I had been told were dead because they left that I found our were alive and happy. Which is seriously messed up.

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Adrienne Duhe

Omg! Me too, so sick, the sickest... In reality I have never been more physically, mentally, or emotionally sound. I am happy, accepted, successful, I am no longer crippled by constant fear. I stayed for years longer than I should have, purely out of fear of what I was told would happen to me when I left. I was miserable, isolated and bullied by the cliquish sisters in my locality, and dismissed and ignored by everyone else. It took so much strength to leave everything I had known behind me, especially because I’d been told I would face pain, death, and dissolution outside. I did not, the healing began almost immediately once the toxicity was no longer present. If I could change anything, I wish I’d left years earlier. And I’m only posting because I ran across this link and I feel leaving success stories are hidden and never shared. There are people I had been told were dead because they left that I found out were alive and happy. Which is seriously messed up.

to the bolded statement. That's shocking.

So glad you posted to leave a record here that people leave the LC, AND YET GOD DOESN'T LEAVE THEM! This is the best thing to see and hear for anyone in and struggling. Continuing on happy and healthy and loving God and your neighbor......more and more LCers need to see it and be aware of it. They are being lied to!

[Cal]

Another thing to realize is there is a psychological imperative to these kinds of things, too. In fact, that is the most important factor here.

If you really believe something, it tends to happen to you. If you have been programmed to believe life will be miserable when you leave the LRC, then it will be. It becomes self-fulfilling. The subconscious tends to work out what we've programmed it to believe. This can go as far as people creating "judgment" for themselves.

Believers in voodoo really believe that when the tribal witch doctor "points the bone" at them, they will die. And so it has been known to work. The power of belief can be that strong.

That's what these grave warnings from the LRC were. A bunch of voodoo.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Igzy

Another thing to realize is there is a psychological imperative to these kinds of things, too. In fact, that is the most important factor here.

If you really believe something, it tends to happen to you. If you have been programmed to believe life will be miserable when you leave the LRC, then it will be. It becomes self-fulfilling. The subconscious tends to work out what we've programmed it to believe. This can go as far as people creating "judgment" for themselves.

I actually was not aware, for close to 30 years, that this kind of fear manipulation was occurring in the LC's. I was convinced that it was just "honest" warnings from the older brothers. While I was reading W.B. Neatby's "History of the Plymouth Brethren," he mentioned the use of manipulative fear as a "bugbear" for their members. What is a bugbear, I thought? As was typical of Neatby's scholarly writing, I needed to read his account accompanied with a dictionary. Many of his paragraphs I read over and over, and still could not grasp his complete thought.

Neatby exposed the fear manipulation in the Brethren writings as a "bugbear" -- an imaginary hob-goblin used to frighten children into good conduct. It was kind of like today's "bogey-man." It represents anything that causes seemingly needless fear or anxiety. When I discovered this about the Darby Brethren, I began to realize how much it had affected me in the Recovery.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Neatby exposed the fear manipulation in the Brethren writings as a "bugbear" -- an imaginary hob-goblin used to frighten children into good conduct. It was kind of like today's "bogey-man." It represents anything that causes seemingly needless fear or anxiety. When I discovered this about the Darby Brethren, I began to realize how much it had affected me in the Recovery.

Yes, and fear of an imagined threat can be just as debilitating as that of a real one.

Fear tends to produce the very thing we fear. An athlete who fears losing tends to lose. A stock trader who fears losing money tends to lose money. A person who fears that he can't make friends tends to have a hard time making friends.

Fear that God is going to judge us for doing something causes in many cases for us to produce the judgment we fear. Sadly, even when the fear is baseless, we can still produce the object of our fears.

I believe this has happened many times to ex-LRCers, and ex-members of other such groups. It's psychological.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Igzy

Yes, and fear of an imagined threat can be just as debilitating as that of a real one.

Fear tends to produce the very thing we fear. An athlete who fears losing tends to lose. A stock trader who fears losing money tends to lose money. A person who fears that he can't make friends tends to have a hard time making friends.

Fear that God is going to judge us for doing something causes in many cases for us to produce the judgment we fear. Sadly, even when the fear is baseless, we can still produce the object of our fears.

I believe this has happened many times to ex-LRCers, and ex-members of other such groups. It's psychological.

The other day I witnessed the other end of the spectrum. Pastor was sharing the need to pay the large pending tax bill, once again using the principle of sowing seeds to reap the Lord's blessing. He guaranteed to the congregation that they will see the blessing from the Lord within 90 days, based on another pastor/bishop's word of prophecy. (Now this time was particularly troublesome for me when I realized that someone had scattered ten Ben Franklin's on the stage steps before the service even started.)

How can the Pastor's promise of a pending blessing NOT be fulfilled? Think about it. During the next 90 days you will be looking for some blessing from the Lord to reach you. It don't even have to be an answered prayed. Big blessing, small blessing, any blessing, just so it occurs before July 28.

This kind of manipulation goes on all the time in churches. Pastors use self-fulfilling fear and self-fulfilling blessing to manipulate God's children for their own selfish means, all the time convincing themselves and their flock that it is true.

Originally Posted by Igzy

Fear tends to produce the very thing we fear. An athlete who fears losing tends to lose. A stock trader who fears losing money tends to lose money. A person who fears that he can't make friends tends to have a hard time making friends.

Fear that God is going to judge us for doing something causes in many cases for us to produce the judgment we fear. Sadly, even when the fear is baseless, we can still produce the object of our fears.

I believe this has happened many times to ex-LRCers, and ex-members of other such groups. It's psychological.

Yes but I also think that in the natural course of life things happen like illnesses, accidents and other negative events regardless of our psychological state. Witness Lee used the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy to connect these kind of events to leaving the LC while in fact they have nothing to do with each other.

Either he actually believed this teaching to be true or he knew it was false and was purposely using it as a scare tactic to keep people from leaving. The former means he was duped and the latter that he was insecure. But either way it demonstrates the undue importance he attached to the LC and himself

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I know I have read it here, but after a search I haven't been able to find it...
Someone or perhaps multiple people have claimed that if you leave the LRC for whatever reason there will be consequences (poor health, inability to go on with the Lord, to grow spiritually, etc). Can anyone point me to an exact quote? I am thinking specifically about the physical/health consequences, but any examples are welcome. I am still in the LRC and have never heard such things...
Thanks.

Here's a decent one from The Vision of the Age (underlining added):

"During these fifty-four years that I have been in the Lord’s recovery, I have seen many people both in the northern and southern parts of China who had high moral standards and a noble character, who had learned deep lessons in life, and whose spiritual condition was good. When they passed through the Lord’s recovery or met with us for a few years and then left, invariably they found their spiritual service fading and faltering. This is an amazing thing. Those who have never touched the Lord’s recovery can still somewhat go on, but those who have come and then left invariably find their end less than desirable. There is not one exception. This proves that the recovery bears the vision that the Lord has entrusted to this age."

(not sure how WL's anecdote "proves" anything, but what else is new with this guy)

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by Trapped

Here's a decent one from The Vision of the Age (underlining added):

"During these fifty-four years that I have been in the Lord’s recovery, I have seen many people both in the northern and southern parts of China who had high moral standards and a noble character, who had learned deep lessons in life, and whose spiritual condition was good. When they passed through the Lord’s recovery or met with us for a few years and then left, invariably they found their spiritual service fading and faltering. This is an amazing thing. Those who have never touched the Lord’s recovery can still somewhat go on, but those who have come and then left invariably find their end less than desirable. There is not one exception. This proves that the recovery bears the vision that the Lord has entrusted to this age."

(not sure how WL's anecdote "proves" anything, but what else is new with this guy)

WOW Trapped - I've been waiting for this since the previous post on this thread almost 7 years ago! Ha ha - not really. But thanks for finding that quote! And I will add my testimony to "the record." I heard this about ones leaving the LC (loosing health/bad things happening/not going on with the Lord, etc.) in more than one training in the 1970s & 80s . I know, because it left a distinct impression of fear and condemnation on me that the Lord eventually freed me from.

I'm also here to testify that this kind of speaking from WL and others was 100% HOGWASH! The Lord does not operate like this and this is impugning His character and loving purpose toward us. I will also testify once again, that my growth in the Lord has continued much better after leaving the whole LSM/LC thing!

[OBW]

Here's a decent one from The Vision of the Age (underlining added):

"During these fifty-four years that I have been in the Lord’s recovery, I have seen many people both in the northern and southern parts of China who had high moral standards and a noble character, who had learned deep lessons in life, and whose spiritual condition was good. When they passed through the Lord’s recovery or met with us for a few years and then left, invariably they found their spiritual service fading and faltering. This is an amazing thing. Those who have never touched the Lord’s recovery can still somewhat go on, but those who have come and then left invariably find their end less than desirable. There is not one exception. This proves that the recovery bears the vision that the Lord has entrusted to this age."

Maybe it is simply proof that "touching" the "Lord's recovery" has unintended consequences for those who do not stick around. They might get out, but they are still dazed and confused by what they heard/learned during that sojourn in the barren land of LSM. How could they simply return to their former state — at least quickly. If their old ways returned too quickly, I would suspect that they were either in the LRC for very little time and saw though it, or were just there for enough information to know better how to warn others off.

[aron]

Originally Posted by OBW

Maybe it is simply proof that "touching" the "Lord's recovery" has unintended consequences for those who do not stick around. They might get out, but they are still dazed and confused by what they heard/learned during that sojourn in the barren land of LSM.

A rephrasing of the quote: "It's possible to have a wonderful Christian life apart from the Lord's Recovery. However, those Christians who do touch our group either become totally trapped and paralyzed, or they eventually stagger off, dazed and wounded." Either way, it's venom.

[ACuriousFellow]

Originally Posted by aron

A rephrasing of the quote: "It's possible to have a wonderful Christian life apart from the Lord's Recovery. However, those Christians who do touch our group either become totally trapped and paralyzed, or they eventually stagger off, dazed and wounded." Either way, it's venom.

Considering what has been discussed here regarding "love-bombing" and Witness Lee's obsession with "enjoyment" and The Recovery's abhorrence of all things "of the mind" and "of death," I would suspect that leaving for many is like when drug addicts go through withdrawal. Those young, impressionable minds who were deceived and given all this "love" and "life" now have nowhere to go to because they entered a group that subtly encouraged cutting off all outside connections. Many of them entered a group that provided them respite from trauma, but because they refuse to accept the non-answers to important questions, they are seen as divisive. A lot of young hearts have struggled with this painful dichotomy of the positive experiences they had and the nasty truth hidden underneath all of the "calling" and "pray-reading" and "eating of life."

Where calling may have once been a way to connect with others and seek the Lord earnestly, it is now a pacifier to stifle any unique thoughts and prevent people from asking tough questions. Where pray-reading may have been a way to try and set one's mind on scriptures, it has become an empty practice of repeating isolated verses from the morning revivals and life-studies without truly understanding the context that is in the scriptures. Where "getting out of your mind" was a genuine attempt to rely on the wisdom of God rather than earthly wisdom of fallen man, it turned into a way to shut others down whenever they had genuine critiques or concerns regarding what was said and taught in the ministry. Where "life vs. death" was an honest desire to let go of legalism and live with grace, wisdom, and discernment, it now became a way to ignore anything that made one question the infallibility of the ministry and let go of the responsibility of correcting and rebuking those who need it. Where "oneness" was a God-given directive to dwell in the one Body of Christ based on our faith in the savior, it was now the shunning of those who do not adhere to the tenants of the "Ministry of the Age" which came only from Lee and The Lord's Recovery.

Because of these things, I became "allergic" to the scriptures for a time, feeling pain and aversion to verses which spoke of evil revilers and dividers who tried to destroy the church with false and dangerous doctrines. I hesitated to read verses which spoke of being of one mind in Christ. I shuddered when I read verses in which Christ said he is life and the bread of life that must be eaten. It pained me to read of verses which spoke of the dead letter of the Mosaic Law which could not bring life. I was confused when I read that all scripture is God-breathed and profitable for teaching, correction, rebuke, and instruction in righteousness. I was angry when I read verses about setting our mind on the things which are above and walking by the spirit.

The subtle but efficacious ways in which all of these things were twisted within Lee's ideology and the teachings of The Lord's Recovery made me think of one particular passage:

12 And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with us in the things they boast about. 13 For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 15 It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve. (2 Corinthians 11:12-15).

It is yet all the more infuriating because their misapplication of biblical truths can be pointed out with basic reading comprehension, yet this is simply brushed off as "in one's mind" and "being dead right."

How can one not be worse off after having to deal with such things for so long and then breaking off all of their connections? But praise the Lord that the leaders of The Lord's Recovery are often just full of hot air. There is a life beyond the "Local Churches" and a way outside of "The Lord's Recovery." One does not need to be bound by the chains which were placed on them by this group, and one can certainly come back to the scriptures and see for themselves what the Lord has to say to his people.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by ACuriousFellow

How can one not be worse off after having to deal with such things for so long and then breaking off all of their connections? But praise the Lord that the leaders of The Lord's Recovery are often just full of hot air. There is a life beyond the "Local Churches" and a way outside of "The Lord's Recovery." One does not need to be bound by the chains which were placed on them by this group, and one can certainly come back to the scriptures and see for themselves what the Lord has to say to his people.

I meet with a small group of brothers weekly. Some are ex-Recovery bros and some are aren't. I was relating something of my testimony, how the Lord had showed me (in a pit of desperet seeking) there were plenty of those outside TLR that were strongly seeking and experiencing Him in a fresh way. The non-Recovery bros just looked puzzled by that, so I explained how we in the LC were indoctrinated to think a certain way, by being told over & over & over "There's nothing outside TLR that is fresh from the Lord, so don't even bother to look!" Again, the ex-Recovery bros understood, but the others really didn't understand how we could be duped like that.

And now it seems most incredulous to me that we swallowed that soooo readily . . .

[aron]

Originally Posted by ACuriousFellow

Where calling may have once been a way to connect with others and seek the Lord earnestly, it is now a pacifier to stifle any unique thoughts and prevent people from asking tough questions. Where pray-reading may have been a way to try and set one's mind on scriptures, it has become an empty practice of repeating isolated verses from the morning revivals and life-studies without truly understanding the context that is in the scriptures. Where "getting out of your mind" was a genuine attempt to rely on the wisdom of God rather than earthly wisdom of fallen man, it turned into a way to shut others down whenever they had genuine critiques or concerns regarding what was said and taught in the ministry. Where "life vs. death" was an honest desire to let go of legalism and live with grace, wisdom, and discernment, it now became a way to ignore anything that made one question the infallibility of the ministry and let go of the responsibility of correcting and rebuking those who need it. Where "oneness" was a God-given directive to dwell in the one Body of Christ based on our faith in the savior, it was now the shunning of those who do not adhere to the tenants of the "Ministry of the Age" which came only from Lee and The Lord's Recovery..

This is an excellent paragraph, showing how a little leaven can leaven the whole lump. There may be wheat flour there, finely ground, nutritious and tasty, but "a little something extra" gets mixed in that eventually ruins it all.

Originally Posted by ACuriousFellow

Considering what has been discussed here regarding "love-bombing" and Witness Lee's obsession with "enjoyment" and The Recovery's abhorrence of all things "of the mind" and "of death," I would suspect that leaving for many is like when drug addicts go through withdrawal.

Agree, the drug addiction analogy is apt, here. Think of heroin. It makes you feel good, but it's not good. It kills some, others survive, barely. Some eventually recover but they are now forever changed by the experience. The LRC members would scoff that their "glorious church life" is not good, but remember that when the addict is nodding off, they may think heroin is good, too. But it's not good, not by any objective measure.

Your current feeling may trick you, but what is going on isn't good. Look how often you've had to ignore your conscience, or the red flags indicating that something's wrong? For example, we listened passively to the curses on those who weren't meeting with us. But we all were "wrecked and ruined" for the Recovery, as the saying went, and our capacity to reason, to comprehend, or to sense, was impaired greatly. Like Paul wrote to Timothy (4:2), our conscience was seared as if by a hot iron. Like the drug addict who has no friends left, only enablers and opposers. Their world becomes greatly reduced, defined by one or two variables, on getting the drug and using it, and everything else is skewed as a result.

[PriestlyScribe]

Originally Posted by aron

A rephrasing of the quote: "It's possible to have a wonderful Christian life apart from the Lord's Recovery. However, those Christians who do touch our group either become totally trapped and paralyzed, or they eventually stagger off, dazed and wounded." Either way, it's venom.

The Lord's Recovery movement is not that unique in how it wounds/paralyzes it's members.

Once upon a time in a home gathering of former members of a cult called "The Church Of Bible Understanding" - Stephen Kaung happened to be present and he shared some of the wisdom he obviously learned at the evil hands of Witness Lee (although WL was not directly named).



Here is a link to the entire transcript of Kaung's fellowship.

I would like to add to this the possibility that when some folks initially hooked up with the Lord's Recovery, it might have been done for the purpose of filling their own perceived lack of a healthy personal identity. In such cases the harm inflicted through contact with the group may be the most severe.

Hope this helps.

P.S.

[Nell]

I agree that leaving the Local Church has consequences, but NOT leaving has more serious consequences.

I disagree that those who leave are spiritually wrecked permanently, which seems to be the implication of Kaung and others. It's not easy but there is spiritual health and hope. I escaped this place some 20 years ago and have been in contact with a group of escapees ever since who have been restored to a healthy walk with the Lord.

I've shared my prayer many times: "Lord, please don't let go of me." and "Please don't make me go back there." I also seem to remember, at one point, I asked him not to make me read the Bible anymore.

Maybe that's not much of a prayer, but He is faithful to this day. I didn't realize it at the time, but what helped me, maybe the most, was that I didn't start looking for another church. I needed to restore my relationship with my family so that's what I did. in fact, I didn't read my bible for several years...which, looking back, was like a "detox" for me. When I did begin to read the Bible again, it was like a new book! I just talked to Him, and I kept talking...that was important. Most of all, I needed to be restored to Him. No organization by man can replace a walk with Him.

All organized churches are organized and managed by man...to one extent or another. We should have learned that from Witness Lee. The churches in the Revelation all had problems...except for one. Of course, all organized churches are not as toxic as Lee's was and still is. The point is: we don't have to find another church. When we find the Lord, and obey him, he will lead us. When Jesus said "I will build my church" I think we can safely say that what we call "church" today is not what Jesus has in mind. We just need to get out of his way....

So the "consequences" of leaving Lee's organization are one thing, but not having a healthy walk with the Lord is the greatest loss of all.

There's a verse:
33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Nell

No such entry will be found as these are all verbal negative admonitions to anyone coming
in. It epitomizes "HUSH HUSH" Before long the new ones will begin to see that this group
is entirely "ELIETIST" Put this back to back with some vague expression of persecution and
You have the formula for a, C**^

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I know I have read it here, but after a search I haven't been able to find it...
Someone or perhaps multiple people have claimed that if you leave the LRC for whatever reason there will be consequences (poor health, inability to go on with the Lord, to grow spiritually, etc). Can anyone point me to an exact quote? I am thinking specifically about the physical/health consequences, but any examples are welcome. I am still in the LRC and have never heard such things...
Thanks.

Common! Lord Jesus told us to learn from Him not from Moses!!! I can in tousand ways tel you "I hate You" without word "hate". Jesus shown people in tousand ways that He love man kind without telling " I love You"! Do not you catch the message behind the words? How You discern spirits? Even pharisees were correct and nice yet full of corruption and filthy heart.

Ron is preaching similiarity to Jesus yet I do not see that similarity in His speeches. I can agree with some symbols in Old Testament. But spreading fear that if You rise up against elders will be punished by God? I see only one kind of warning: living away from Living God! So instead of scaring people and frcing to bediance RK and MC should more encourage people to search God and know Him personally. The problem is that those wicked people say this and then mix all this good thing with leaven. Empty words without Holly Spirit. II Peter 2. 18-22

[ACuriousFellow]

“At the end of the summer training in 1995, We celebrated the completion of the life-study of the Bible through Brother’s Lee’s speaking and the burden of the of the interpreted word, not merely the written Word. The word that we need to keep is not only the written Word that we study, read, and pray-read but also the proper interpretation of the Word. We boldly declare that this interpretation is to be found in the footnotes and the outline of the Recovery Version and the Life-study messages. If we do not pay proper attention to the interpreted Word as the opener of the written Word, we will lose everything eventually. Many saints who have passed through my heart, through my house, and through the church have eventually lost everything.”

(The Ministry of the Word, Volume 16, Number 12, p. 97, December 2012, published by Living Stream Ministry. Certain words have been typed in bold italics for emphasis.)

[Nell]

Originally Posted by ACuriousFellow

“At the end of the summer training in 1995, We celebrated the completion of the life-study of the Bible through Brother’s Lee’s speaking and the burden of the of the interpreted word, not merely the written Word. The word that we need to keep is not only the written Word that we study, read, and pray-read but also the proper interpretation of the Word. We boldly declare that this interpretation is to be found in the footnotes and the outline of the Recovery Version and the Life-study messages. If we do not pay proper attention to the interpreted Word as the opener of the written Word, we will lose everything eventually. Many saints who have passed through my heart, through my house, and through the church have eventually lost everything.”

(The Ministry of the Word, Volume 16, Number 12, p. 97, December 2012, published by Living Stream Ministry. Certain words have been typed in bold italics for emphasis.)

This is a curse.

Nell

Originally Posted by ACuriousFellow

“At the end of the summer training in 1995, We celebrated the completion of the life-study of the Bible through Brother’s Lee’s speaking and the burden of the of the interpreted word, not merely the written Word. The word that we need to keep is not only the written Word that we study, read, and pray-read but also the proper interpretation of the Word. We boldly declare that this interpretation is to be found in the footnotes and the outline of the Recovery Version and the Life-study messages. If we do not pay proper attention to the interpreted Word as the opener of the written Word, we will lose everything eventually. Many saints who have passed through my heart, through my house, and through the church have eventually lost everything.”

(The Ministry of the Word, Volume 16, Number 12, p. 97, December 2012, published by Living Stream Ministry. Certain words have been typed in bold italics for emphasis.)

If anyone hasn’t noticed yet, the worship of Jesus in the local church has been replaced by the worship of Lee, and the work of the Holy Spirit has been replaced by the speaking and writings of his. No wonder that place is lifeless and stale, just as their object of worship!

It’s possible because just like according to their theology, Jesus became the Holy Spirit after his death, and so in the same way, Lee’s writings are equivalent or even better than any work of the true Spirit! Only makes sense (to them).

[HBJ]

You are a child of God. You are in His hands! It does not matter what man says. I heard inklings of poor health in the 70s-80s when I was in the LC. It comes from 'We have the new and living way'----- unfortunate deception! All Christians are in God's hands, and we are responsible to Him only! Love the Lord your God, with all you soul, your heart and your mind. He loves you and cares for you. Pray for those in the LC, that the Lord will lead them unto what HE wants, may He have mercy on our souls!

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I know I have read it here, but after a search I haven't been able to find it...
Someone or perhaps multiple people have claimed that if you leave the LRC for whatever reason there will be consequences (poor health, inability to go on with the Lord, to grow spiritually, etc). Can anyone point me to an exact quote? I am thinking specifically about the physical/health consequences, but any examples are welcome. I am still in the LRC and have never heard such things...
Thanks.

(sorry - I didn't realize I was responding to a post over 10 years old here!)

I can't point you in the direction of those specific posts. But I remember being in conferences in the 70s & 80s where such remarks were made. One was in a big training in the new hall in Anaheim in the mid-70s. We were told that things frequently happen when one leaves and the speaker (think it was WL, but not 100% sure) told this story as a for instance of what may occur if we departed from the LC: This leading brother related that a fellow left the Recovery and about a month after leaving was mowing his grass, with an electric lawn mower. He ran over the cord and his feet were wet - he was electrocuted and died instantly. Things got real quiet in the room after this was conveyed. It was then strongly implied that this could happen to any of us if we left.

This topic (i.e., veiled threat) wasn't dwelt on all that much, but I'd say I heard this or similar stories at least 3 or 4 times . . . enough to make a distinct and fearful impression on me. (these were told sort of like a spooky Halloween type story)

These days I'd of stood up and said, "Are you kidding me!?" But it took 10 years of drying out between 1988 and 1998 for the Lord to bring me to the point that He could show me this was fear based nonsense and that His primary motivation toward us was His great love. And to realize He had many others out there who had a fresh touch with Him.

I remember working underneath my car on jacks during that 10 year period, and the thought came to me, "Because you left His purpose on the earth, with His little finger God could kick out these jacks and squash you like a bug!" Obviously the accuser was working on me that day, but I came to my senses and realized his silly, fear-tinged voice . . .

Sorry I can't point to other specific post, but hope that helps.

[UntoHim]

Originally Posted by Nell

No organization by man can replace a walk with Him.

In my experience and observation, the main problem with the Christian church in America (which is all I'm qualified to judge) is that many of them are filled with people who have no personal walk with the Lord. They come as immature, hungry sheep, and years and decades later they are still an immature, hungry sheep. Of course the problem for those dear believers stuck in the Local Church of Witness Lee is that they have been duped into thinking that the so-called "ministry" has fed them and now they are mature. Those of us who have escaped know better, much better.

"The church" was not created to replace the individual believer's walk with the Lord. The church was created to fulfil the Great Commission - to "make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" and further: "teaching them to observe all that I have commanded". The Great Commission cannot be fulfilled by any individual Christian, no matter how strong their walk with the Lord is. The church, as the Body of Christ, must have functioning members to fulfill this Great Commission. It needs legs to go to "the uttermost part of the earth". It needs arms to be able to lift the beaten man laying in the road and carry him to the nearest inn. It needs a strong and healthy mind to relate the great truths contained in the Gospel and the writings of the apostles which feed and nourish the rest of the body.

Originally Posted by Nell

The point is: we don't have to find another church.

For many who have escaped the Local Church, they need to take some time to get away from all the noise and excitement. They need to "be still" for a period and look to hear the voice of God. For some this may be months. For some this may be years. At some point God will speak. He always does. To be sure, we don't have to find another church.....for many, the church will find them. This is what happed to me. After a significant period of time away from meeting with the Local Church, I began to have a desire for corporate worship. Luckily for me, I was not starting from scratch. I had significant Christian experience prior to meeting in the Local Church. I knew the voice of God. I knew what it was to worship in spirit and in truth. Eventually I was led to a place with healthy teaching and a team of believers who could lead the congregation to worship in spirit and in truth. I was not looking for a church, but by God's grace and mercy the church found me - To put a finer point on it, a place to get healthy teaching and worship in spirit and truth found me.

For those who were raised in the Local Church this process might look totally different. It may take extra time. It will certainly take extra patience, extra grace and mercy from the Lord. I want you to know that many of us on this forum are here for you. Maybe it is just to pray and talk with. Maybe it is just to listen or a shoulder to cry on. We are here for you.
-

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I know I have read it here, but after a search I haven't been able to find it...
Someone or perhaps multiple people have claimed that if you leave the LRC for whatever reason there will be consequences (poor health, inability to go on with the Lord, to grow spiritually, etc). Can anyone point me to an exact quote? I am thinking specifically about the physical/health consequences, but any examples are welcome. I am still in the LRC and have never heard such things...
Thanks.

There are no consequences. The only thing/person you should fear is Yeshua The Lord Jesus himself. I left and nothing happened to me in fact, I gained a more personal relationship with Jesus after I left and also met a wonderful companion shortly after I left. For the first time, I could fellowship with someone without feeling judged.