Local Church Interactions

ToGodAlone · 01-14-2012, 11:51 PM

Since most of you are/were in the LRC, I was wondering if I could ask about how you interacted with non-LRC Christians while you were in the LRC and how that has changed if/when you left. From my observations and such, it would seem that the LRC frowned upon other Christians since they used the terms "fallen Christianity" or "Babylon" or whatever else. However just because the church says something, doesn't mean everyone followed it strongly, right?

So enlighten me, how were you taught to interact with those in "Babylon?" How did you actually act around/with them? How did that change, or did it change?

I know a lot of you are strong opinioned about church structure and whatnot, but I'm not sure if that necessarily carries over to the actual members within.

Have at it.

UntoHim · 01-15-2012, 10:23 AM

Methinks your questions are somewhat rhetorical....but since you asked (for it)

In my observation things have changed for the better in this regard over the past 10 - 15 years. (Maybe since WL died in 97?)

Back in the heyday of the Local Church in the 1970s, members were much more "militant" towards other Christians. For example there was a march on a large seminary (Moody Bible Institute I believe) where the members carried placards with slogans such as "down with Babylon" and the like.

I know that back in the mid-70s the Local Church had a significant presence on one of the largest Junior Colleges in So.Calif (Orange Coast College) Not only were we uncooperative with other Christian groups (to say the least), there were times of ugly confrontations which were mostly initiated and/or inflamed by the Local Churchers. There is no doubt that some of these confrontations led to the perception of some that the LC was a cult of sorts.

Of course when one is constantly hearing negative things from the leader of your group (poor, poor Christianity, Judaism is satanic, Catholicism is demonic and Christianity is christless, etc, etc), then it does have an affect on one's attitude towards others. This negative attitude even extended to members of one's own immediate family who were Christians....even if they were the most devout and orthodox....it just didn't matter if they were not in the Local Church of Witness Lee...they were all to be considered lumped in with poor, poor Christianity.

As I said, I think this horrific attitude has softened a bit, but you can still see it clearly in the words and actions of the blended brothers and other longtime LC members. This is what I think is so harmful and even dangerous about the "Full-Time Training"....These negative stereotypes and attitudes are being instilled in a whole new generation of young people.

I have much to say about my experience since leaving the Local Church but it will have to wait for later.... I'm off to Babylon for the morning!

ToGodAlone · 01-16-2012, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Methinks your questions are somewhat rhetorical....but since you asked (for it)

Oh I know what I asked for. It's just that I wanted a personal perspective on it. Consider it rhetorical or whatever, but it's a genuine question that I want to know all of your answers to.

OBW · 01-16-2012, 06:02 AM

My experience with the LRC began in Jan 1973. Some have considered that the kind of mentality that we thought of Nee and Lee as apostles started at the end of the 70s or the early 80s. But that is not so. As a senior in high school that Winter/Spring, I went back to the old place to return some choir music we had found. Went on a week day, probably during Spring Break. I ran into a youth intern that I had not known and he asked about our place. I mouthed off with some nonsense about following real apostles. I guarantee that I was not savvy enough to make that up. It was at least being said out loud among the people if not taught.

Then, a few years later, there was a family reunion in the Dallas area of part of my mother's family. We ended out going to church with an aunt (my grandmother's sister). It was the first Sunday of the month so they were having communion. My mom made a quiet stink to us about not partaking of their "divisive table." Years later, when we left the LRC, I had a little trepidation about partaking of communion the first few times, and it took me about a year to finally join the choir. It was several years later that I noticed how much I still thought I knew more than most of them.

While I stopped the rhetoric some time ago, I am only now beginning to realize that saying or thinking things like "only care for Christ" is more hype than substance. I began to stop and think what it was that I was thinking when I considered those phrases. Even when I heard it a little in that "Christ v Religion" video. And the answer is that I can't say that it means anything of substance, but rather is a hollow device to demean others while elevating "superior" rhetoric to the position of following and obeying Christ. A way to justify letting meeting life replace real life.

TLFisher · 01-16-2012, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OBW

While I stopped the rhetoric some time ago, I am only now beginning to realize that saying or thinking things like "only care for Christ" is more hype than substance. I began to stop and think what it was that I was thinking when I considered those phrases. Even when I heard it a little in that "Christ v Religion" video. And the answer is that I can't say that it means anything of substance, but rather is a hollow device to demean others while elevating "superior" rhetoric to the position of following and obeying Christ. A way to justify letting meeting life replace real life.

One of the concerns in non-LRC Christianity about everyone speaking is the risk of speaking something that is not scripturally sound. Which brings me to rhetoric of superiority. In my last tour in the LRC one particular brother on several ocassions prophesied how we in the recovery have so much and can see so much and Christianity can't see anything. I strongly disagree, but the danger of speaking such a word in public is too great of bringing others into an aura of false superiority. I brought it to an elder's attention and his reactions was essentially, "just let him grow in life". That was enough for me to realize nothing has changed in the LRC.

OBW · 01-16-2012, 11:24 AM

Oddly enough, I've seen enough evidence both within the LRC and outside that indicates that, as a whole, Christians who think in ways that are "inner-life" in nature, or that dance around them, tend to think that God is giving them special light; that they see things that are beyond what we know is in scripture.

In other words, they don't need others telling them what they "know" to be true. All they need is themselves and their Bibles.

And then there is a system called the LRC that trains people to see what is not there. They mostly accept all the nonsense that is fed to them. But they have learned. Then some of them leave. They may have seen through the problems with the LRC. But not always through the "special readings." I keep finding them. And I still sometimes let my private "light," whether from the LRC or elsewhere, interfere with my interactions with others.

And worrying about those who are stuck in "old ways" is another problem. Even in arenas where no one has ever heard of the LRC, those who like the old ways despise and warn about the new ways, while those who like the new ways despise and warn about the old ways.

It is a common problem with so many of us. Now add into the mix the extreme thinking that the LRC gave us and we were doomed. At least for a while.

Abounding · 01-15-2012, 01:51 PM

My experience is more recent. In my locality definitely less militant. I felt that I was unable to fellowship with other believers because I already had all of the riches and they were poor. If another Christian was to share something with me, I would just smile and think how elementary. Don't I sound like a jerk. I guess I was pretty pompous. As soon as I left, I was amazed at how much I could see and enjoy others fellowship. I was definitely divided. I was taught that other believers were out of the flow of life. Anything anyone said that might not be in line with the ministry was of course out of the flow and wrong. I also didn't feel like it was healthy to fellowship with believers out of the ministry flow unless I was converting them. Any time spent with outside Christians was strictly to convert them. Although we would say otherwise our true intentions were to get them to join us. I know because we would also be praying for them at the prayer meeting that they would see the Church. This prevented any two way fellowship. I did not have any friends outside of the LC. That shows how much time I spent with other members of the body of Christ.

TLFisher · 01-15-2012, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abounding

I felt that I was unable to fellowship with other believers because I already had all of the riches and they were poor. If another Christian was to share something with me, I would just smile and think how elementary. Don't I sound like a jerk. I guess I was pretty pompous. As soon as I left, I was amazed at how much I could see and enjoy others fellowship. I was definitely divided. I was taught that other believers were out of the flow of life. Anything anyone said that might not be in line with the ministry was of course out of the flow and wrong. I also didn't feel like it was healthy to fellowship with believers out of the ministry flow unless I was converting them. Any time spent with outside Christians was strictly to convert them. Although we would say otherwise our true intentions were to get them to join us. I know because we would also be praying for them at the prayer meeting that they would see the Church. This prevented any two way fellowship.

I had types of experiences; as a churchkid and as an adult.
First as a church kid my high school years were 1983-1986. I was about an hour's drive geographically UntoHim referenced. Just wasn't my experience. Maybe the young people at that time were taught the Word and not the ministry. It was normal to invite friends to Sunday mornings, Saturday nights, and Lovefeasts.
As an adult I realized my behavior was much like Abounding. Poor in Christ and rich in pride. What contact there were with Christians outside the LRC was in context of the ministry. Did they see or not see the ministry? If they didn't see the ministry, don't waste your time. There was the impression only those meeting with the recovery were serious about the Lord. As far as saints in the recovery were concerned, those meeting outside the local churches only saw Sunday morning service as going through the motions Sunday venture. Non-LRC Christians were not 24/7, but only for 2 hours on Sunday morning. I realized my pharisee-like behavior nearly cost me a friend in a sister and her husband.
Several experiences opened my eyes. One in readingThe Normal Christian Churchlife. In reading this book by Watchman Nee I realized the discrepancy between Watchman Nee's minstry and what the LRC practices.
Having spent some time with Christians outside the local churches, I have met numerous saints who are like sponges for the Lord in their seeking and running after Him. I have realized what one blended co-worker was right when he said, "the recovery is not for everyone." That is because meeting in the local churches is based on the ministry and not all Christians want to take or follow a ministry.

01-14-2012, 11:51 PM	#1
ToGodAlone Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 95	Local Church Interactions Since most of you are/were in the LRC, I was wondering if I could ask about how you interacted with non-LRC Christians while you were in the LRC and how that has changed if/when you left. From my observations and such, it would seem that the LRC frowned upon other Christians since they used the terms "fallen Christianity" or "Babylon" or whatever else. However just because the church says something, doesn't mean everyone followed it strongly, right? So enlighten me, how were you taught to interact with those in "Babylon?" How did you actually act around/with them? How did that change, or did it change? I know a lot of you are strong opinioned about church structure and whatnot, but I'm not sure if that necessarily carries over to the actual members within. Have at it.

01-15-2012, 10:23 AM	#2
UntoHim Οὕτως γὰρ ἠγάπησεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν κόσμον For God So Loved The World Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 3,824	Methinks your questions are somewhat rhetorical....but since you asked (for it) In my observation things have changed for the better in this regard over the past 10 - 15 years. (Maybe since WL died in 97?) Back in the heyday of the Local Church in the 1970s, members were much more "militant" towards other Christians. For example there was a march on a large seminary (Moody Bible Institute I believe) where the members carried placards with slogans such as "down with Babylon" and the like. I know that back in the mid-70s the Local Church had a significant presence on one of the largest Junior Colleges in So.Calif (Orange Coast College) Not only were we uncooperative with other Christian groups (to say the least), there were times of ugly confrontations which were mostly initiated and/or inflamed by the Local Churchers. There is no doubt that some of these confrontations led to the perception of some that the LC was a cult of sorts. Of course when one is constantly hearing negative things from the leader of your group (poor, poor Christianity, Judaism is satanic, Catholicism is demonic and Christianity is christless, etc, etc), then it does have an affect on one's attitude towards others. This negative attitude even extended to members of one's own immediate family who were Christians....even if they were the most devout and orthodox....it just didn't matter if they were not in the Local Church of Witness Lee...they were all to be considered lumped in with poor, poor Christianity. As I said, I think this horrific attitude has softened a bit, but you can still see it clearly in the words and actions of the blended brothers and other longtime LC members. This is what I think is so harmful and even dangerous about the "Full-Time Training"....These negative stereotypes and attitudes are being instilled in a whole new generation of young people. I have much to say about my experience since leaving the Local Church but it will have to wait for later.... I'm off to Babylon for the morning! __________________ αὐτῷ ἡ δόξα καὶ τὸ κράτος εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας τῶν αἰώνων ἀμήν - 1 Peter 5:11

01-16-2012, 06:02 AM	#4
OBW Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: DFW area Posts: 4,384	Re: LRC interactions My experience with the LRC began in Jan 1973. Some have considered that the kind of mentality that we thought of Nee and Lee as apostles started at the end of the 70s or the early 80s. But that is not so. As a senior in high school that Winter/Spring, I went back to the old place to return some choir music we had found. Went on a week day, probably during Spring Break. I ran into a youth intern that I had not known and he asked about our place. I mouthed off with some nonsense about following real apostles. I guarantee that I was not savvy enough to make that up. It was at least being said out loud among the people if not taught. Then, a few years later, there was a family reunion in the Dallas area of part of my mother's family. We ended out going to church with an aunt (my grandmother's sister). It was the first Sunday of the month so they were having communion. My mom made a quiet stink to us about not partaking of their "divisive table." Years later, when we left the LRC, I had a little trepidation about partaking of communion the first few times, and it took me about a year to finally join the choir. It was several years later that I noticed how much I still thought I knew more than most of them. While I stopped the rhetoric some time ago, I am only now beginning to realize that saying or thinking things like "only care for Christ" is more hype than substance. I began to stop and think what it was that I was thinking when I considered those phrases. Even when I heard it a little in that "Christ v Religion" video. And the answer is that I can't say that it means anything of substance, but rather is a hollow device to demean others while elevating "superior" rhetoric to the position of following and obeying Christ. A way to justify letting meeting life replace real life. __________________ Mike I think . . . . I think I am . . . . therefore I am, I think — Edge OR . . . . You may be right, I may be crazy — Joel

01-16-2012, 11:24 AM	#6
OBW Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: DFW area Posts: 4,384	Re: LRC interactions Oddly enough, I've seen enough evidence both within the LRC and outside that indicates that, as a whole, Christians who think in ways that are "inner-life" in nature, or that dance around them, tend to think that God is giving them special light; that they see things that are beyond what we know is in scripture. In other words, they don't need others telling them what they "know" to be true. All they need is themselves and their Bibles. And then there is a system called the LRC that trains people to see what is not there. They mostly accept all the nonsense that is fed to them. But they have learned. Then some of them leave. They may have seen through the problems with the LRC. But not always through the "special readings." I keep finding them. And I still sometimes let my private "light," whether from the LRC or elsewhere, interfere with my interactions with others. And worrying about those who are stuck in "old ways" is another problem. Even in arenas where no one has ever heard of the LRC, those who like the old ways despise and warn about the new ways, while those who like the new ways despise and warn about the old ways. It is a common problem with so many of us. Now add into the mix the extreme thinking that the LRC gave us and we were doomed. At least for a while. __________________ Mike I think . . . . I think I am . . . . therefore I am, I think — Edge OR . . . . You may be right, I may be crazy — Joel

01-15-2012, 01:51 PM	#7
Abounding Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Baton Rouge Posts: 14	Re: LRC interactions My experience is more recent. In my locality definitely less militant. I felt that I was unable to fellowship with other believers because I already had all of the riches and they were poor. If another Christian was to share something with me, I would just smile and think how elementary. Don't I sound like a jerk. I guess I was pretty pompous. As soon as I left, I was amazed at how much I could see and enjoy others fellowship. I was definitely divided. I was taught that other believers were out of the flow of life. Anything anyone said that might not be in line with the ministry was of course out of the flow and wrong. I also didn't feel like it was healthy to fellowship with believers out of the ministry flow unless I was converting them. Any time spent with outside Christians was strictly to convert them. Although we would say otherwise our true intentions were to get them to join us. I know because we would also be praying for them at the prayer meeting that they would see the Church. This prevented any two way fellowship. I did not have any friends outside of the LC. That shows how much time I spent with other members of the body of Christ.