Sisters of the Rebellion

[Indiana]

In 2001 I met Sandee Rapoport after meeting with Max for three hours at a brother's home in Riverside, CA. She and others had come in to join us for further fellowship. I met that week in Southern CA with other former leaders, which was my primary objective, after having sent them In the Wake of the New Way, my first writing. My visiting took place December 3 thru 10 exactly ten years ago.

I had several email contacts with Sandee concerning her experience in Anaheim. I was amazed at the love and forgiveness in her heart she continually expressed toward brothers Ron Kangas or Witness Lee and others. Two sisters she got me in contact with had the same spirit of love.

Jane Anderson testified of her “repentance to Lynn Turner and her husband and the sweet experience of brotherly love that resulted” and discussed with elders the need “to be free to open up to one another honestly about our problems and personal situations.”

This, Jane and others saw as a necessary labor of love in the church to build up the Body. But it was apparently viewed by church authority as a part of a sisters’ rebellion against God’s move that damaged God’s building. Thus, church authority was executed to “terminate” the “divisive” and “independent” sister in a scene that was considered to be to this day by the executioner a proper demonstration of the “headship of Christ” in the Body.

http://www.HidingHistoryintheLordsRe...eRebellion.pdf

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Indiana

This, Jane and others saw as a necessary labor of love in the church to build up the Body. But it was apparently viewed by church authority as a part of a sisters’ rebellion against God’s move that damaged God’s building. Thus, church authority was executed to “terminate” the “divisive” and “independent” sister in a scene that was considered to be to this day by the executioner a proper demonstration of the “headship of Christ” in the Body.

http://www.HidingHistoryintheLordsRe...eRebellion.pdf

Interesting how misleading Benson is in his speaking. If you did not know the history, Benson is very believable. This word from the 2005 Winter Training was tidy and conveniently shows what happened in 1977 is also a current word. It was a not so subtle precursor to the events about to transpire in 2006. "They didn‟t call it a party, but that‟s what we‟re talking about, a factious party, built up in the church. It may be sisters, it may be brothers, it may be young people, it may be co-workers,". Ironic how consistently facts are not presented accurately, but rather how it fits the present agenda.

A timeline is needed to show local church history 1962-present (year by year with events as they happened).

I lived in Anaheim 1976-1979. As of 1977, Max and Sandee were still with the church in Anaheim. What Benson was alluding to did not happen until 1978. For further verification, I asked one of my sisters. Up to a certain point in 1978, members of my family were still going to Wednesday night meetings where Max would speak.

[Indiana]

Leadership for
Entering the Good Land

Houston Sister Speaking Truth
A couple of weeks ago I read a post by Thankful Jane where she once again brought the reader’s attention to the dark side of the church life where she had been a member, mainly in Houston. Her post related the passing over of sin by the elders and their taking the advice of Brother Lee in not dealing directly with the sinning elder. Although Brother Lee had his reasons for suggesting that the brother just re-locate, (which would include avoiding the risk in Houston of a lawsuit by the family), the result of not dealing with the sin in his locality has been catastrophic up to this day.

I had been reading more of her book these days about the issues that grieved her so deeply, the dark events and cruel behavior of elders, especially by Sam Jones and Dan Williams. Since she and others were so negatively impacted, one can understand why she wants to drive home the points she made about leaders, practices, and teachings that are stressed in the Local Churches - and examine the fruit! This is what responsible people do.

I realized yesterday who Sam Jones must be. In a phone call with a former elder in LA and Rosemead, I found out that his wife had repeatedly protested to her husband about the things she knew and that had been covered up in Texas. She had been in at least two Texas churches – Houston and Irving. In order to keep her quiet “the church” had bought a house for this elder and his wife. She has now passed away, only about a month ago.


Enemy's Entrenchment Manifest
Something riveting to me is that not only Jane, but also a brother in Texas spoke of the presence of spiritual darkness while in separate sessions with elders, the brother having the spiritual sight of a black snake spiraling upward behind the backs of the elders. Do I have this right? These testimonies make sense in light of the truth “pressed down” in unrighteousness among them and their evil behavior toward Jane and others, the basic lack of individual care for the members, and obsession with a man and a ministry.

(As a side note, “Steve Smith” and two elders sat behind me in the 1974-75 winter training on Romans, and I never forgot my impression of them. I could hear them talk, infrequently as it was, always low volume and uninspired, dragging, without joy. On breaks, from the beginning, I noticed they were not engaging at all, without light in their countenance or life in their step. They were very weighed down throughout the ten days of training, morning and night. I sensed death and darkness was with them and knew that something was wrong.)

I just share this experience and don’t know what they were experiencing in their lives, as elders one year into the ministry movement spawned by WL and Max in Jan.’74, a movement that escalated with each passing year. Did the crashing of Daystar affect them? Or, I carefully ask, had the elder already been in sin at this time? The reason I would say, yes, is because sin brings in death, and that type of sin would account for this kind of paralyzing death I witnessed. This is only a conjecture, a possibility that I posit.

Whatever the case, I would not have wanted to trust being under their care, and the march underway to the one accord drum beat to align elders with a universal leader precluded expectations that such an important movement would sacrifice its objectives to stop and care for people, and with sin.


The Sisters’ Reaction
The joyful brother in my phone conversation yesterday said that what was called a rebellion by the sisters was actually not a rebellion but a reaction they had to the sins of WL’s two sons. He himself testified that he could sense spiritual death in the office of Living Stream as he passed through it; and then one day he himself became a witness to Philip Lee’s moral misconduct, as was Warren Peterson also on another occasion. This sinning by PL was never treated and dealt with, though Max Rapoport tried. He had approached Brother Lee.

The sisters initially came together to pray, then they also approached Brother Lee and confronted him to deal with his son and the sin in the office of Living Stream. Ten years later reports came again and the church in Anaheim was in an upheaval over the undealt-with sins at Living Stream Ministry.


Focus on a Movement
With focus always on the movement and not on dealing with the sins and the unrighteous and cruel behavior in the leadership, death has now spread to the point of a possible imminent collapse of an unrighteous leadership.

Jane Anderson speaks in her book, The Thread of Gold, about the behavior of Local Church leadership which believes “it needs to protect the Local Church’s reputation and the ministry of Witness Lee”. She says it is “more than disturbing” that they are willing “to preserve their cause at the expense of others and even at the expense of truth”. (p. 263)

She is not alone in this thought. And the numbers are climbing around the globe. There are websites on the local churches that I didn’t know existed, as a brother told me of several, and my own timeline of LC history was sent to me from one of those sites, having been edited by someone and I think improved. In other words, many voices are being heard all around the world and the pressure is increasingly on LC leadership.


Moses Heart for God
As Moses prepared to lead the children of Israel into the good land of Canaan, we see a completely different picture of the leadership expected among God’s people than what has been prevailing in the Local Churches for decades. Moses received word from God for leaders to deal with equity in their oversight of the multitudes under their care.

In Brother Lee’s footnote he says,

“In Deuteronomy, Moses as the spokesman of God was like an aged, loving father speaking to his children with much love and concern.” (Deut. 1 note 2, RCV)

Deut. 1:9 And I spoke to you at that time, saying, I am not able to bear you alone.

v 10 Jehovah your God has multiplied you, and now today you are as the stars of the heaven in multitude.

v 11 Jehovah, the God of your fathers, add to you a thousandfold ones like you and bless you as He has promised you!

v 12 How can I alone bear the burden of you and your strife?

v 13 Choose for yourself men who are wise and prudent and well-attested, according to your tribes, and I will make them your leaders.

v 14 And you said, The thing which you have said for us to do is good.

v 15 So I took the leaders of your tribes, men who were wise and well-attested, and I made them leaders over you, captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, and captains over fifties, and captains over tens, and officials for your tribes.

v 16 And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the cases, between your brothers and judge righteously between a man and his brother or the sojourner with him.

v 17 You shall not respect persons in judgment; you shall respect the small and great alike. You shall not fear the face of man for judgment is God’s. And the case that is too hard for you, you shall bring to me; and I will hear it.

v 18 And I commanded you at that time all the things you should do.


Steve Isitt
Dec 11, 2011

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Indiana

I realized yesterday who Sam Jones must be. In a phone call with a former elder in LA and Rosemead, I found out that his wife had repeatedly protested to her husband about the things she knew and that had been covered up in Texas. She had been in at least two Texas churches – Houston and Irving. In order to keep her quiet “the church” had bought a house for this elder and his wife. She has now passed away, only about a month ago.

How many sisters were like this elder's wife? Having been aware, protested, not taken seriously, but rather expected to go along.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Indiana

(As a side note, “Steve Smith” and two elders sat behind me in the 1974-75 winter training on Romans, and I never forgot my impression of them. I could hear them talk, infrequently as it was, always low volume and uninspired, dragging, without joy. On breaks, from the beginning, I noticed they were not engaging at all, without light in their countenance or life in their step. They were very weighed down throughout the ten days of training, morning and night. I sensed death and darkness was with them and knew that something was wrong.)

For all the careful observation in these posts, I find that these kinds of comments do not fit.

Why do we try to decide how others are spiritually based upon a litmus test of activities? The way they carry themselves?

Talking in low volumes is a sign of a problem? In a place where there was a focus that might not always need to be disturbed by the talk between other people?

Define "light in their countenance" and "life in their step." Do they need halos like from medieval paintings? Does proper position in the LRC require a uniform countenance?

I am not trying to say that there was simply nothing wrong. But the yardstick put up does not seem to be relevant or realistic. Countenance is often a relative thing. It is something that is discernible mainly in its change or in its extremes. If we think that being at the Romans training demanded an extreme of upbeat, joyous countenance, then we were not sober enough to understand the meaning of so much of the content. It should have burned through us to realize that our natural life was, at its best, simply striving to be good. Too much joy in that context should have suggested that we didn't really get it.

But more than that, to judge the character of anyone based on an expectation of joy and and "life in their step" is to ignore the weight of the reality of who we are, and of the tasks placed before us. In fact, the very expectation that the end of every message in that training would result in "must spring from my seat" testimonies constantly punctuated with "hallelujah," "Oh Lord," and "amen" shouted in staccato fashion suggests less-than serious consideration of what is in the messages.

Or a problem with the content of the messages.

Or less than serious realization that some very important things had been glossed over.

The task of the Christian life is not simply exuberance. I say exuberance rather than joy because joy is not always about outward upbeatness. But exuberance is. And I think we incorrectly replace joy with exuberance and write off people for not being exuberant.

And I will not try to defend "Steve Smith" and his foibles (if I am remembering my TOG pseudonyms correctly) but I spent 9 months in the same small, brand new church on his journey between Houston and Irving.

He impressed me as someone who was not just a "hallelujah brother," but was of sober consideration for his tasks as elder in that place. In fact, I would suggest that he might have been as good at the overall job of elder as any of the ones any of us know — except for the sin that he couldn't shake that should have disqualified him from that task.

But I doubt that could be detected from the row in front of him in the Romans training.

Due to his sin, his position as an elder should have been dealt with when he was in Houston. But it was not. (Just like PL's was not around the same time.) Then it really wasn't again a few years later in Irving. The result is that he could never be restored since he was never dealt with righteously. And the results were ultimately greater than the sin that was privately cast out of the congregation, affecting not only him and his family, but that of at least one other family.

But the problem was less "Steve Smith's" sin. It was mostly the unrighteous dealing with it — twice — and the fallout from it. Without knowing anything about the problems, I saw some of the first fallout a year or so later when their daughter (and probably his wife) returned to Irving to visit one weekend. The daughter was a mess. Turned into quite the rebel. She may have just been putting on appearances before, but no more. That family was already under siege.

I would suggest that it was a lack of proper training in leadership that was at least partly the downfall in this case. Elders with some real understanding of their purpose and charge would not have been so errant in handling this kind of situation. Not the first time or the second. I realize that there are examples of Christian organizations that failed in a similar way, with the RCC priest scandals standing out most recently. But most organizations will not tolerate such things. It is only the insecure that need to hide the sins and hope that new scenery will do what their lack of discipline could not do.

[OBW]

In case someone misunderstands what I wrote earlier today, let me be clear on a few things.

I am not dismissing "Steve Smith's" sins. They are significant and made him unfit to be an elder. But the real issue is not his sin, but the handling of it by the rest of the LRC leadership, ultimately including Lee.

I am not suggesting in any way that there is any flaw in Jane's account in TOG. And I don't think she thinks I think that either. I find that her writing is extremely level, if almost overly forgiving concerning the early stages of SS's problems. And that is as it should be. There was no sin against her in it and no knowledge of what sin there was at the time.

I am not picking on Steve, although I have done so in the past. And I often do comment that I wish some of his writing more clearly delineated between what others have said and what he is saying (and there is a little of that here, although I think I figured it out). And for someone concerned about the demeanor of someone else — especially picking on their lack of observable joy — I find these posts excessively cold, clinical, and preachy.

But that was not the point of my post.

My point was to wonder aloud if we (most of us) still consider the Christian life in terms of exuberance, bubbles, a tingly feeling, and a sense of awe at the superiority of our knowledge. Despite my serious misgivings with so much I learned in the LRC, the time did open me to be much more careful in what and how I believe, therefore more critical in thinking and listening to much of anybody. And it drove me to a more serious look at knowledge, even doing some "shade tree" study of philosophy, eventually realizing that, while knowledge is very important, it is not what you know so much as what you do that actually matters.

And it is not whether you are upbeat and joyous in a training, or serious and contemplative. It is what you do with it that matters. And to the casual observer, those who will have an idea what to do with things are those who are careful to observe what it is that they are handling, not those who are babbling about anything and everything and concerned about appearances.

In the case of Steve Smith, all the way back to 1977 there appears to be a need by LRC leadership to hide any hint of wrongdoing. The same thing was happening with PL out in California. And the head honcho himself was responsible for that little preview of things to come. Rather than being sure to deal with sin in the midst, and even make an example of a fallen elder, they just shuffled the deck and sent SS to Arlington. Then he moved on to Irving a little later. Always an elder.

That's just wrong. But rather than point at SS for his sin and his character, point at those who knew and just left him in place without any proper discipline or repentance. Those leaders knew. And they knew they did it wrong. Hope has given us some insight into the second time it all came up and they just shuffled him off to East Texas. Out of sight and out of mind. But not for long. It would come around to destroy more only a few years later. SS is not without blame. But BP and several others, including Lee share in the blame. Yet they remain in their places (sans Lee) just as SS did.

In this case, I am a little concerned that this is a little like one of those speeches by candidates for student body president. Most of the silly teen movies and TV shows (including the current hit "Glee") have at least one candidate who has nothing of substance to say, and has not practiced the little he does intend to say, so he gets stuck, then blurts out some cheer-leading kind of jargon to stir up the student's emotions about something irrelevant.

Steve's post is not like that. But I believe that he is thinking back to a time when he, like so many of us, were mostly stirred up over and over again by high-sounding rhetoric that brought us to our feet with shouts. But it was not necessarily a time when we were being imparted something of lasting significance relating to the real Christian life. I'm not saying that there was absolutely no meat in what we were hearing. But that was seldom the real point. It was all about keeping upbeat and euphoric.

When I think back to the Romans training, I don't remember a lot. But when I started thinking about the real meaning of walking according to the Spirit in recent years, I had reason to go back to look at what was written in the Life Studies on that portion of Romans. And it was just more reason to be turning away from Lee. He spent a lot of time ranting on how anything we do in ourself is just the Law as in Romans 7. He makes a big deal about being free from that (Romans 8:1-2) because the law of sin and death is defeated. Then he has little to say about walking by the Spirit except to call is the "spirit" and then move along.

In hindsight, I think that there is not much "joy" in daily, hourly, minute-by-minute realizing that our natural tendency is to walk according to the flesh and there is significant effort on our part to keep the Spirit in sight and walk that way. So we need a theology that allows us to wait until we get more dispensing to to step out and walk. In the mean time, we just seek out dispensing and joy.

And second-guess anyone who does not seem joyous. Even write them off. Treat them as a plague. Leprous. Unclean. A must to avoid.

So if you are Steve Smith and you want any hope of change, you have to hide your failure and act the part. You can't ask for help. You can't resign your eldership and seek counseling. You have to just go on and wait for the dispensing to overcome your sin.

And we know how sound that advice is.

[bookworm]

Originally Posted by OBW

In the case of Steve Smith, all the way back to 1977 there appears to be a need by LRC leadership to hide any hint of wrongdoing. The same thing was happening with PL out in California. And the head honcho himself was responsible for that little preview of things to come. Rather than being sure to deal with sin in the midst, and even make an example of a fallen elder, they just shuffled the deck and sent SS to Arlington. Then he moved on to Irving a little later. Always an elder.

That's just wrong. But rather than point at SS for his sin and his character, point at those who knew and just left him in place without any proper discipline or repentance. Those leaders knew. And they knew they did it wrong. Hope has given us some insight into the second time it all came up and they just shuffled him off to East Texas. Out of sight and out of mind. But not for long. It would come around to destroy more only a few years later. SS is not without blame. But BP and several others, including Lee share in the blame. Yet they remain in their places (sans Lee) just as SS did.

So if you are Steve Smith and you want any hope of change, you have to hide your failure and act the part. You can't ask for help. You can't resign your eldership and seek counseling. You have to just go on and wait for the dispensing to overcome your sin.

And we know how sound that advice is.

You will note on page 162 of The Thread of Gold that there was a meeting of Jane and her husband along with another Houston couple with Steve Smith (who was the main elder in the Church in Houston at that time) and Sam Jones. Jane and John had been discussing with this other couple regarding the need in the church “to be free to open up to one another honestly about our problems and personal situations, such as husband-wife relationships.” When these two couples shared their concerns “unexpectedly Steve leaned forward, put his head in his hands, and began to weep.” Jane goes on to describe that “he sobbed and was deeply affected.”

Perhaps this was an experience of Steve Smith coming close to asking for help. When he regained his composure Steve Smith told these couples that he and the other elders would get back with them at a later date, but they never did.

Instead several weeks later was the time described in Chapter 1 of The Thread of Gold in which Jane was accused of “the shameful downfall that you caused to one of us.”

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Indiana

The Sisters’ Reaction
The joyful brother in my phone conversation yesterday said that what was called a rebellion by the sisters was actually not a rebellion but a reaction they had to the sins of WL’s two sons. He himself testified that he could sense spiritual death in the office of Living Stream as he passed through it; and then one day he himself became a witness to Philip Lee’s moral misconduct, as was Warren Peterson also on another occasion. This sinning by PL was never treated and dealt with, though Max Rapoport tried. He had approached Brother Lee.

The sisters initially came together to pray, then they also approached Brother Lee and confronted him to deal with his son and the sin in the office of Living Stream. Ten years later reports came again and the church in Anaheim was in an upheaval over the undealt-with sins at Living Stream Ministry.

While listening to a message Ed Marks gave in Spokane, something he said made me wonder, where was Ed Marks in 1978? In Houston, or in Anaheim. His word why there was a turmoil in 1978 was not a reaction to sin as Indiana's post indicated, but rather because the saints got away from reading the Bible.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Terry

While listening to a message Ed Marks gave in Spokane, something he said made me wonder, where was Ed Marks in 1978? In Houston, or in Anaheim. His word why there was a turmoil in 1978 was not a reaction to sin as Indiana's post indicated, but rather because the saints got away from reading the Bible.

Pretty sure that Ed Marks was still in Houston in 1978.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Terry

While listening to a message Ed Marks gave in Spokane, something he said made me wonder, where was Ed Marks in 1978? In Houston, or in Anaheim. His word why there was a turmoil in 1978 was not a reaction to sin as Indiana's post indicated, but rather because the saints got away from reading the Bible.

Ed Marks made a comment about the "saints getting away from the Bible?"

Is that some kind of joke? Has Ed Marks ever promoted "getting into the Bible?" He is perhaps the greatest cheerleader WL ever had.

Furthermore, how would Ed know what really happened in Anaheim in the 70's? His only source of information was the scandalous book Fermentation of the Present Rebellion.

Let me say it again folks, I never learned any good, accurate Recovery history listening to LSM. They spin every event for their own gains. There never was anything fair, accurate, or balanced in their record of events. They have little interest in actual facts, neither do they care to do any worthwhile investigation.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Ed Marks made a comment about the "saints getting away from the Bible?"

Is that some kind of joke? Has Ed Marks ever promoted "getting into the Bible?" He is perhaps the greatest cheerleader WL ever had.

Furthermore, how would Ed know what really happened in Anaheim in the 70's? His only source of information was the scandalous book Fermentation of the Present Rebellion.

That book briefly touched upon what happened in 1978. I'll say this much you'll hear brothers say so and so was ambitious. That may be so, but ambition was tolerated UNTIL he reacted to a sinful situation. With the turmoils of 1978 and the late 80's, this is the message that's delivered: turmoil was due to ambitious brothers. What is not spoken is certain saints reacted to a sinful situation.