Helping those still in the Recovery

[ToGodAlone]

I'm pretty sure all of us still have ties to the local churches in some way shape or form and still have contact with many current members. The purpose of this thread is to discuss ways in which we can help those who are still in the local church. Be it actually leading them out of it or just showing them a different perspective than the one they've probably heard their whole lives, how can we our brothers and sisters in the local church?

[awareness]

The one brother I know that's in the recovery, that left it and then went back in, said he doesn't want to hear anything negative about Witness Lee even if it's true.

So how do you help someone like that? And what can you say to him to help him?

[ZNPaaneah]

When I fellowshipped with Catholics I didn't talk about the Pope. When I fellowship with Jews I focus on the OT, not the new. When I fellowship with unbelievers I may focus on history or Scientific observations. I think the principle is the same. We have a lot of positive things in common with everyone, including those that meet with the LRC. I don't think you are helping anyone by harping on WL. The exception of course is if they want to know. In our case it helps us to understand what was otherwise a puzzle we couldn't figure out. But until the Lord brings someone to the point where they want to understand WL then I think it is counterproductive to raise the issue. In the LRC they are taught that ex members are bitter and miserable and want to spread poison. You feed into that if you are the one pushing the negative agenda. On the other hand if your focus is on genuine fellowship eventually, in good time, the subject of why you left, or why you don't meet with the LRC or some contradiction they see in their own experience will come up.

[awareness]

Good points bro Z. I too try to stay away from hot button subjects.

But I'm out and this brother is in the recovery church of Witness Lee. So there's a very big elephant in the room when we converse. And you can only talk about the weather for so long. The obvious is bound to come up sooner or later.

They [Lee loyalites] can't help it. They've got to push their message. They're obligated to the Lord to do so.

This brother thinks I'll never be right again unless I come back to the local church ; that everyone needs to be in the local church to be right with God.

So the subject of the local church and Witness Lee is gonna come up. They/he will bring it up. They owe it to the Lord to speak that truth, for both the Lord and YOUR/MY salvation. They're infected with that meme to the bone.

So help them? They don't want to be helped. They want to help you.

How do you help people that believe they are a member of God's only move on the earth?

[ZNPaaneah]

I am very familiar with all that. There was a brother from the LRC that taught at the same school I did. He was not militant by any stretch, but no doubt everyone in the congregation knew that I was at his school, and they probably asked him "how I was doing" to get a confirmation on the inevitable decline. However, NYC publishes a list of valedictorians and it became obvious to me that everyone in that congregation learned of my kids success one way or another, even though I had left 10 years earlier.

Once again, I see no reason to talk WL unless they want to, instead I focus on my own recent experiences of the Lord and hope my personal experience exposes the lies they are taught.

[awareness]

So the best way to help them, you are more or less saying is, show them that we left and lightning didn't strike us dead? That the Lord is still good post local church?

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

When I fellowshipped with Catholics I didn't talk about the Pope. When I fellowship with Jews I focus on the OT, not the new. When I fellowship with unbelievers I may focus on history or Scientific observations. I think the principle is the same. We have a lot of positive things in common with everyone, including those that meet with the LRC. I don't think you are helping anyone by harping on WL. The exception of course is if they want to know. In our case it helps us to understand what was otherwise a puzzle we couldn't figure out. But until the Lord brings someone to the point where they want to understand WL then I think it is counterproductive to raise the issue. In the LRC they are taught that ex members are bitter and miserable and want to spread poison. You feed into that if you are the one pushing the negative agenda. On the other hand if your focus is on genuine fellowship eventually, in good time, the subject of why you left, or why you don't meet with the LRC or some contradiction they see in their own experience will come up.

Hi all,
It's been a long time since I've popped in to read or post here. Anyhow.... I found this thread, in particular very interesting and this response very true to my experience. My neighbors across the street and next door to me are Catholics. The neighbors across the street are more spiritual than the ones next door. It is so obvious one is seeking Christ and the other one just going through the Sunday motions.

My neighbor across the street had been studying 5 years to become a deacon in the RCC. Finally the day came a couple of months ago where he was ordained. He & his wife invited me and my next door neighbors to the ceremony where the archbishop and a slew of bishops and priests were going to ordain him and 15 other men as deacons.

So my next door neighbors & I drove together to the ceremony which was followed by a family luncheon. Wowsee, Wowsee !!! No sooner than we arrived to the 'church', I had to press in with all my might to Praise, Glorify, Worship & pray w/o ceasing pray. Had I not, I would have gone bonkers w/boredom. Then I would have whined, murmured and complained of the long & boring ceremony. Either that or I would have fallen asleep ! (Believe me next time I have trouble sleeping, I'm going to mass and a 'high' mass at that!!!)

Everyone around me felt the same way especially my next door neighbors. I chuckled when they vented on the drive to the luncheon.

So I opted to pray. I told the Holy Spirit to look at every person in attendance. I didn't know who was saved or who wasn't. One thing was for certain, everyone needed God's Hand to touch them, including me. So for 2 1/2 hours in between the singing & 'praying', I prayed for each person in that church building. I prayed for Jesus to bless us with His Presence. I prayed for His Glory to fill the room that everyone would feel His Touch.

Finally the long winded ceremony ended & off to the luncheon we went. There were about 50 people that were invited. Before we ordered, R stood up, thanking us all for going to the ceremony & coming to the luncheon. He proceeded to tell us that right before being ordained, all the deacons had to lay face down on the floor. Each one was to pray with their own words softly & privately. He told us all that as he began to pray he felt like a strong blow, like a wind hit his back. He was filled with immense peace and knew right away it was the Holy Spirit Who entered him. Those were his words.

How Awesome is our God isn't He ?! As we were all talking to one another, R's son who was sitting across from me commented on how his dad was the only one whose voice could be heard saying 'Amen' as he was being ordained. Now me and my next door neighbors sat way in the back of the 'church' during the ceremony and we heard R say "amen". I responded to his son that his dad had the Anointing of the Holy Spirit on him which is why we could hear him. His son said to me "EXACTLY !!" I simply smiled.

That was all we said about the Lord the entire time we were there. I suppose his son is saved by the way he responded to me. Point is, that is all we said about the Lord. I was not led to say anything more than that. Great food ! I had a fun time.

A few days ago, me & the neighbors were outside. My next door neighbor, as nice & funny as he is, is the 'Gladys Cravitz' of the neighborhood. He knows everything about everyone in the neighborhood and beyond. So I looked at "R" and told him to go into his prayer closet when he goes home & pray for "D". We all chuckled including "D".

When we went our separate ways, I told R the Lord was going to reward him for the good deed he had done for one of the neighbors. That got us talking & fellowshipping. He told me that not many of the deacons he knows follow God as they should. He then asked me with 'spiritual' curiousity & amazement where I learned all I was explaining to him. I simply answered "The Bible." He then told me had studied for 5 yrs to become a deacon and had never heard the scriptures I had shared with him. I told him where they were in the bible. He thanked me for sharing with him the scriptures & for the fellowship.

What you wrote ZNPaaneah, is what I experience. I have never said one word to my neighbors what I 'know' about the RCC. I have had Jewish acquaintances and when I speak to them about God, I speak highly of the God of their fathers, our fathers Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. I always bless them.

I have a couple of LSM friends who are struggling with their 'local' church. But I can't say a word about their 'anointed' WL. They're as bad as Catholics who are bored silly with their religion but as soon as you mention a way out, they get their feathers all ruffled !

Great post ZNPaaneah ! Thanks for sharing your well thought out observations.

[awareness]

And thanks for your sharing as well CMW. So you're telling us that the Holy Spirit showed up at a boring dead Catholic ceremony. The Holy Spirit is indeed like the wind. Blowing where it will.

Methinks Jesus spoke of the Spirit being like the wind because no one owns the air. No one can claim, "I own the air."

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by awareness

And thanks for your sharing as well CMW. So you're telling us that the Holy Spirit showed up at a boring dead Catholic ceremony. The Holy Spirit is indeed like the wind. Blowing where it will.

Methinks Jesus spoke of the Spirit being like the wind because no one owns the air. No one can claim, "I own the air."

You are welcome Awareness. Oh yes...I'm sure I'm speaking to the choir when I share the next 2 experiences I had of the Holy Spirit being like the wind:

First. When I got saved in 1975, I worked at a Marine base, several brethren from the LC worked in the same department I worked in. They were never pushy but I was sure curious because they brought their bibles (KJ or NASB) to work and read them together or individually during breaks. [back then there were no RcVs, thank GOD!]

I inititiated the conversation about the bible. WOW ! What a novelty huh ?!

For about a week, they opened the scriptures to me. I was starving for Jesus but didn't know that is why I was so amazed with the Word of God. When they invited me to a 'love / gospel feast', I backed out. However, when I showed up for work, I apologized for not showing up.

It was there. Right there, I prayed with my brother in Christ to receive Jesus as my Lord. As I prayed with a pure heart from the depth of my being, there came in that 'Mighty Rush of Wind' into me. "WHOOSH!" Words can't explain how I felt Him come in but I felt that WHOOSH like my neighbor did and the Peace of God enveloped me right away.

A second time I felt this 'Whoosh' was at a church service here in town a few years ago. I happened to be sitting with some people who were from out of town and had come for the first time. They had never experienced a service like that one. I know I was saying something about the Lord to them & had their attention. Anyway, at some point, the pastor invited people to come up for prayer...maybe for a blessing...I can't remember exactly what.

Everyone around me, those in the isles in front of me, those on my isles and those behind me all went up. I chose not to go up. I simply continued praying in my seat. Suddenly that "might rush of Wind" hit me hard, He almost knocked me down had it not been for the back rest of my seat ! I looked all around me to see if there was anyone near me but everyone was up front waiting for their personal blessing. I just knew...don't know how...but I knew the Holy Spirit had Blown more of His Wind into me for whatever reasons.

This experience has only happened to me 3 times that I can recall. It is very powerful. So yes Awareness. The Holy Spirit is indeed like the wind. Blowing where it (He) will. Good point you made !