Reports Of Religion's Extinction Exaggerated

[Admin]

REPORTS OF RELIGION’S EXTINCTION EXAGGERATED

Skepticism should greet a recent scientific study by three science professors presented at the American Physical Society meeting in Dallas, Texas. The paper, entitled “A mathematical model of social group competition with application to the growth of religious non-affiliation,” might seem dull. Yet, unlike most scientific papers, this one generated news headlines around the globe, including “Researchers predict the End of Religion” (Forbes), “Physics predicts end of religion” (BBC) and “Canadians losing faith as religion faces extinction” (Montreal Gazette). Canada was among the nations where religion’s extinction was predicted, so this study is relevant to us. Is this bold prediction justified? Is religion really dying out in Canada?

Casual observation seems to support this study. We see small groups of communicants huddled together for warmth in the vestries of cavernous Catholic and Anglican cathedrals. German Lutheran and Greek Orthodox churches are predominantly grey-haired and elderly. The United Church of Canada continues to down-size and combine congregations. Yet a wider glance uncovers counter-veiling trends—Chinese and Korean churches have sprung up like weeds in industrial units around Toronto. Diverse ethnic groups often time-share church facilities; English Calvinists share with Korean Presbyterians or Tamal Pentecostals. A $40M Hindu temple recently opened in Brampton. The minarets of Muslim mosques now piece the skyline in Markham and Mississauga. The “Toronto Blessing” was a Pentecostal phenomenon drawing visitors from around the globe. All these signs seem indicative of religion’s growth, rather than its demise. Meanwhile synagogues remain; the Jewish minority is growing in step with the population, showing no signs of assimilation or extinction.

This study focuses on the rising trend of no religious affiliation in the countries studied. This pattern holds in Canada. Census data shows the percentage of Canadians reporting “no religion” grew from 4% in 1971 to 16% in 2001. The science professors pooled data from nine western countries and then fit curves displaying exponential growth of the “no religion” category. Extrapolating these curves forward yields the prediction of inevitable extinction—decades from now, if current trends continue, 100% of Canadians will report “no religion.” The obvious Achilles' heel is the statement, “if current trends continue.” Moreover, the study’s focus on population percentages in never justified. When accessing the risk of animal extinction we look at the number of breeding pairs, not the percentage. Canada’s Jewish community represents 1% of the population. If this community grows slower than the overall population, does this imply extinction? Not at all; it’s still growing. 4,000 years of Jewish history have proven many extinction prophecies and projects wrong. This shows a religious minority (even a shrinking minority in percentage terms) can survive and thrive. The percentage of Canadians identified as “Christian” declined from 83% in 1991 to 77% in 2001. Does that imply extinction? No, the absolute number increased from 22.5 Million to 22.9M.

These scientists’ predictions conflict with other projections. Statistics Canada expects “the share with no religion would rise from about 17% to 21%,” by 2031. [Stats Can: The Daily, Tues, March 9, 2010] Their data shows Canada’s “no religion” category has been increasing, but at a decreasing rate. In the 1970s Canadians with no religious affiliation grew at 7% per year (doubling from 0.9M in 1971 to 1.8M in 1981). In the 1990s they grew at only 3.7% per year (from 3.4M in 1991 to 4.9M in 2001). Over the past 30 years each decade shows a slowing growth rate. Slowing growth suggests the “no religion” category will peak at some future date below 100%. Religion’s extinction is not on the cards.

A Jewish proverb says “prophecy is for fools and children.” Statistics can be coaxed to tell contradictory tales. Take for example the growth of Islam in Canada. The 1971 Census found 33,000 Muslims in Canada, only 0.15% of the population. This number grew by 11% during the 1970s to 100,000 by 1981. By 2006 Canada’s Muslim population numbered 784,000 (2.4% of the population). The growth of Muslims has exceeded the overall population. Statistics Canada forecasts that by 2031 the number of Muslims will reach 3M (7% of Canada’s population). Naïve forward projections imply a majority of Canadians will be Muslim at some future date. Clearly we have a contradiction. Both the “no religion” and the “Muslim” categories have been growing faster than Canada’s overall population. Projecting one trend forwards implies the extinction of religion; extrapolating the other predicts a Muslim majority! Both these forecasts cannot come true; I expect neither prediction to be fulfilled. Perhaps the science professors’ next research topic should be the growth of Islam in western countries! That should generate some sensational headlines!

Nigel Tomes
The author taught economics at the UWO from 1977 to 1986, where he researched in religion and earnings in Canada. Since 1986 he has ministered at the Church in Toronto.

[countmeworthy]

I am all for the extinctinction of religion ! The Word of God will then have Free Flow, Free range. The grass withers, the flowers fade but His WORD endureth forever. His Word is Living. It is Active. It is Powerful and it is Operating in us. How Blessed we are. Thank You Lord.

[OBW]

No matter how much of the mindset against the term "religion" was gained from the LRC and possibly still retained to this day, religion is not simply some evil that keeps man from God and from the Word of God. The only thing that will come from the extinction of religion will be the anarchy of every man with his own Bible doing what is right in his own eyes. We won't even be able to agree enough to have small groups in homes together.

All because each of us threw off the shackles of reason, logic, language, and truth in the name of "no religion" and became a seminary of one. Millions of them. Each with a slightly different set of "distinctives" that sets them apart from all others. Once we group back together under common thought, we will once again have religion.

And religion is not bad. Only one definition of several is in any way something to avoid. Yes. Avoid that. But not everything that has the label of religion.

And stop saying things like "I am all for the extinction of religion" because in that statement we declare to almost all listeners that we despise God, despise the community of believers, and don't think that anyone should engage in Christian thought. Instead, speak the language of the people you are talking to. They do not mean something evil when they say "religion." They mean the collections of actions, practices, thoughts, doctrines, teachings, etc., that comprise the truth and practice of obedience to Christ. When we say we want religion to be extinct, we are telling them that we want those things to be eliminated. In this case we are the ones using the term "religion" incorrectly. Not them.

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by OBW

And religion is not bad. Only one definition of several is in any way something to avoid. Yes. Avoid that. But not everything that has the label of religion.

And stop saying things like "I am all for the extinction of religion" because in that statement we declare to almost all listeners that we despise God, despise the community of believers, and don't think that anyone should engage in Christian thought.

OBW. You know VERY WELL this forum is mainly read by former LCrs and current LCRS who UNDERSTAND the difference between being "religious" and being Spirit FILLED.

Religion teaches people how to live upright lives, how to live a disciplined life which we could ALL use but only through the guidance and teachings of the Holy Spirit! Religion can come from the teachings of Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduuism, even Islam. But being RELIGIOUS does not open the eyes of your understanding to the WORD OF GOD. It can make you think about God, why we are here on earth and decide if we should believe in God.

But Religion does not usher you into having an intimate relationship with the WORD of GOD, with His FATHER, OUR Father Who art in heaven and His Holy Spirit.

So Sorry brother..... I've been around the block of the Religious mindset. First as a 'controlled' Catholic. Then as a 'controlled' LCr. Then around the Charasmatics and WoF people. You cannot tell me what to say or what not to say. You may disagree with my views but I am still at liberty to say what I believe. If you think me saying "I am all for the extinction of religion" is a statement we declare to almost all listeners that we despise God, that is YOUR problem !!! I know exactly what I am saying and who I am saying it to! And so do YOU ! Yeah... I am totally aware, we were taught the 'evils of religion' in the LC only to become religious ourselves ! But that was not GOD'S doing. That was man's doing.

Today. Even big time Christians who never were in the LC or heard of it have condemned the religious !!

So please. Just because you, me and most of us became 'intelligent' after leaving the LC doesn't mean we are that much smarter. If we were really SMART, we Christians would be living in spirit by the SPIRIT and the WORD of God.

The most living and Spirit Filled fellowship I've encountered is when the Fellowship is Spontaneous, be it in the street, the store, or at somebody's house. This comes about when we are spending a whole lot of one on One time with Our Father & the LORD JESUS in prayer by HIS SPIRIT & the Word of God.

Just today, as I was working on my front lawn, my neighbor a very devout RELIGIOUS Catholic came over to chit chat. He's one of the nicest men I have ever met and has a BIG, BIG Heart! I am soo blessed to have him as a neighbor!
He told me he was studying diligently preparing a homily (an explanation of an epistle or gospel at a mass) for he is soon going to be an ordained deacon, that is an assistant to a priest. He told me he was nervous. I told him I was very confident he would give a very good homily. I added to my comment that before he gives it to ask the Holy Spirit to anoint his message so when he speaks, it would be GOD speaking through him.

He lit up like a light bulb thanking him for that Word I gave him.

That said, a planned fellowship/prayer get together can most certainly be filled with the Presence of the LORD.

Down with Religion I say and UP with the LIVING WORD WHO is ACTIVE, POWERFUL, LIVING and OPERATING in us ! To GOD be all the GLORY and Praise forevermore.

Carol

[OBW]

Originally Posted by countmeworthy

OBW. You know VERY WELL this forum is mainly read by former LCrs and current LCRS who UNDERSTAND the difference between being "religious" and being Spirit FILLED.

And this will be discussed in a post that I am preparing for our blog.

We come here to point out the gross errors of the LRC and yet stand as if virtually everything the LRC stands for is correct. It would seem that the only thing wrong with the LRC for many of us is its leadership while everything else about it is actually right, all the way down to its sanctimonious, self-righteous "our way is blessed and yours is not" position.

It is evident from reading your reply that you think that the only thing about religion and even being religious is that one definition that is about man trying to get to God in his own way. That is not the only definition. And every time anyone comes to this forum or the other and says the LRC is all wrong then points to a better way to do the LRC while basically saying that the rest of Christianity still really has it all wrong, I see another version of Steve Isitt hoping that the LRC of the 60s (or whatever era that member thinks was the perfect time) will return and Camelot, that bastion of Christian perfection will once again rise from the mists of Scotland and the age can end because Christ has once again found the apple of his eye. (Yeah. I mixed a few metaphors together here.)

Argue with me all day long about how far from the LRC you have come. When you return to this kind of put down of everyone else while pointing out how everyone who is or was in the LRC knows that being religious rather than being Spirit-led is wrong, and you prove how near you are to rejoining that group or trying to create its twin sister.

I know that there are some people who do not think that I should speak this way to a sister. But when you come to speak so boldly about how wrong everyone else is, then you get a bold response. Too many here — and this includes you on many occasions — are not as much removed from the LRC as you think. Too many think that they really had it right. All the way down to the discernment about what was wrong with the rest of Christianity. Just quit saying "mooing cows" and it would all be good.

But even if we can point to certain problems with Christianity back in the days that we left — the 60s, the 70s, even the 80s and beyond — Christianity was never what it was said to be by Lee and his minions. And whatever it actually was then, it generally is not now. Like the rest of the world, it does change over time. But it is not just those changes that make Christianity "OK" to me. The real problem is that too much of the "they have it wrong" rhetoric that we learned from Lee and the LRC we have retained. We also retained the idea that the core "distinctives" of the LRC are right and that the rest of Christianity is wrong. I'm convinced that it is the other way around. And that means that there is no "this is the way" way. It means that all of the "exclusively correct" positions of the LRC that we still cling to are just as incorrect as the garbage that we fight against here.

In other words, we are mostly still in this desperate hold onto what we liked about the LRC as if it was exclusively correct and everyone else was wrong. I don't buy it any more. If you can't find the teaching moving forward in a strong and open way in Christianity as a whole, I have reason to be suspicious about its validity. Especially the kind of thing that demeans willful, systematic, even almost ritualistic efforts to be obedient to the teachings of Christ. It seems so funny that people who have concluded that Lee was wrong to just be waiting for dispensing chastise anyone who is not just waiting for something else just like dispensing. Jesus said to teach them to obey, not to teach them to wait on dispensing, or even the Spirit. But the LRC despises that part of Jesus' teachings. They only like the kind of teachings that require no actual obedience, just spiritual mumbo jumbo.

And this point will eventually be the reason that I abandon any efforts to suggest that moving beyond the doors of the LRC is not the only step. It is only the first step. I am more convinced than ever that what is actually needed is a very ritualistic house-cleaning of everything learned in the LRC. Even the good teachings were mixed with aspects of error. Learn to see the difference.

But almost everybody thinks that the LRC was mostly right. (And if the LRC is mostly right, then the rest of Christianity is mostly wrong. And I find too much right about Christianity to buy that this assessment is true.) Or they go off the deep end and are borderline-to-actual agnostics. There is another answer. But I'm not sure that anyone is listening.

[countmeworthy]

Look OBW.........

If you're happy in the church 'body' you attend, GOOD for you ! I would not go back to the LC, nor do I long for the good days we had, or I had in the 70s. Hey and right back at ya on the boldness ! You're pretty outspoken yourself on your opinions too.

Since leaving, I have been involved 3 times for long periods of times to home groups, and church settings. One of them was even a Messianic church, a church that retains the Jewish flavor complete with Torah readings in Hebrew. We sang in both Hebrew and English, danced in the Jewish tradition, and worshipped Yeshua.

I love some of John Hagee's teachings, Perry Stone's teachings, Jerry Sevelle (who taught me about the FAVOR of GOD) Joyce Meyers' teachings (Oh..and btw I ushered at a 3 day conference she held.) I love Benny Hinn's teachings not necessarily the way he conducts himself or his business. I have some of Copeland's teachings but I'm not a big fan of his. Same with Jesse Duplantis'. These are 'big named' people who have TV and radio programs, which is why I mention them but I have gone to many services and conferences that don't have 'famous' preachers / teachers and have gotten a lot of Spiritual insight that have brought me closer to God and His WORD, Jesus. I already know you don't like some of these people so please spare me your criticizm's of them. I have been meeting with the same fellowship/prayer group every Thursday evening since 2005. They go to the same church, I went to for 3 years.

But there is a whole lot more than the same ole' - same ole' for crying out loud! You don't bring anything uplifting and FRESH to the forum either! For years, You bring a lot of intellectual knowledge and criticizm to the forum.

If you're happy where you are, so be it !

I am not telling anyone not to go to 'church' or not to get involved in a 'church'. WE are ALL the CHURCH ! Even preacher/teachers speak this and are NOT referring to their flock only ! We believers and followers of the Lord Jesus KNOW every believer is a member of the Body of CHRIST and all believers make up the CHURCH !

I'm simply letting people know there IS LIFE after the LC/LSM. And if people are happy and comfortable in the LSM, so be it. Stay there ! They may be just where GOD wants them to be !

I know we used that word a lot: Life...until we ran it to the ground. I also know people who are truly happy and filled with the Spirit under their pastor's ministries. Many have been loyal to their 'church' for over 20 years. GOOD for them. 2 weeks ago, a couple of people in the prayer group began to cry, literally thanking the Lord for the pastor. They were sooo thankful for a man of GOD who 'knows' and speaks 'the Word.' They went on and on and on about how much time he spends in the Word and how much time he spends in prayer....

I wanted to puke. This couple are retired and I wondered why they don't more time in the Word and prayer themselves. I didn't say anything because they believe pastors are 'ordained' or have a special 'calling' on their lives and thus have special gifts to preach or teach.

I Every person I've fellowshipped with who is under a particular ministry, well known or not, always sings the praises of the pastor. I've been there too ! I'm learning to appreciate people who truly have a deeper understanding of the Word of God and can enlighten me. I'm thankful for them but I have become super careful not to put them on a pedestal. I've been caught in that trap too.

For me, PERSONALLY SPEAKING, I am happiest being spontaneous and not being under a 'ministry' where I eventually become suffocated. As I read and study the scriptures, I believe it teaches we ought to build up one another in the Love of Christ, encouraging one another, feeding one another that we may be filled with the Spirit and Wisdom of God so we may know how to answer every man and bring the Living Word of God to every believer.

This will be my last post on this topic of 'religion'. May the Holy Spirit lead us ALL in the Path of Righteousness.

Peace and Shalom in Christ Jesus to you OBW.

Carol