A Word of Love

[TLFisher]

I have recently read Witness Lee's short book on A Word of Love to Elder's, Co-workers, Lovers, and Seekers of Christ.
Having been impressed with this book, I considered when this word was released, how was it received? Was it a word to be taken superficially? Meaning a word to be spoken, but not to be applied. The word was mean to exhort, encourage, and not be just another message.
Witness Lee speaks of having a shepherding spirit in chapter 2:

"If we lose this spirit, whether we are elders, co-workers, or serving ones, we are finished. This is the main reason why we are so barren, bearing no fruit for so many years. Recently a brother went to care for a couple, but he did not have this spirit. He visited them no more than ten times and became disappointed. Since the couple had no heart for this brother, he reported that it was useless to visit them further. When Pastor Yu visited me, I did not care for him, but he continued to come for three or four months, week after week. We need to have this spirit. We all have to change our concept. Therefore, we need discipling. We have too much of the natural thought. We need to be discipled to have the divine concept, the concept of the Father’s heart and the heart of the Lord Jesus, who came to save sinners."

What is the natural concept? What is profitable and what is not. In our natural man we're too busy. A need to remain occupied. If you visit someone and there's no instantaneous positive reaction, it's a waste of time. In the next section brother Lee spoke of labeling and ranking people. This is precisely what happens when you decide who and who isn't a waste of time. In retrospect we were all a waste of time, but in the gospels we read what God did by sending His Son who in His perfection took all our sins upon the cross.

I appreciate Witness Lee's A Word of Love, but I sensed it was a word taken lightly. I have been noticing for some time when we're in the meetings, there's passivity; an expectation we're the church and if you want to meet with as the practical expression of the church in this city, here we are. No concept of going after people, but in our meetings sitting on our hands waiting for them to come to the local churches. That is why someone such as myself was dormant for 7 years before anyone bothered calling, much less visiting. Even 15 years later A Word of Love hasn't changed the culture about visiting people. To suggest such a concept the response might as well been, "brother you're asking too much". When we're talking about elders and co-workers, they shoulder a greater burden than the average saint. If they're willing to bear resposnsibility, why has it been asking too much to visit people? There has been a corresponding reaction to the lack of visiting people. That reaction becoming the community type churches being much more attractive with their discipling culture. In this present day community type churces are better equipped to meet the needs of the general brother and sister.

[TLFisher]

43 "You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.' 44 "But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
Matthew 5:43-44

"It all depends upon love, as the wise king Solomon said, “Love covers all transgressions” (Prov. 10:12). We love people. We love the opposers, and we love the top rebels. I really mean it. We love them and do not hate them."
p. 17

Within the last six months I had a conversation with a brother about dissenting brothers. A question was posed, "how can you love a brother who cannot be trusted?"

[NeitherFirstnorLast]

Originally Posted by Terry

Within the last six months I had a conversation with a brother about dissenting brothers. A question was posed, "how can you love a brother who cannot be trusted?"

Answer: By trusting in the Lord, not the Brother, to cover the situation. ALL the law hinges on these two things: Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind... and love your neighbour as yourself.

"And who is our neighbour?" A lawyer once asked our Lord this very question, seeking to justify himself (for there were many he could not love). What did the Lord reply?

Luke 10:25-37...

Jesus replied and said, "A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among robbers, and they stripped him and beat him, and went away leaving him half dead.

"And by chance a priest was going down on that road, and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.
"Likewise a Levite also, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side.
"But a Samaritan, who was on a journey, came upon him; and when he saw him, he felt compassion, and came to him and bandaged up his wounds, pouring oil and wine on them; and he put him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn and took care of him.
"On the next day he took out two denarii and gave them to the innkeeper and said, 'Take care of him; and whatever more you spend, when I return I will repay you.'
"Which of these three do you think proved to be a neighbor to the man who fell into the robbers' hands?" And he said, "The one who showed mercy toward him." Then Jesus said to him, "Go and do the same."

If we cannot love, we cannot call ourselves transformed. If you have an issue with your brother - go - deal with him first BEFORE you come before the Lord, or the Lord will not hear you. He died on the cross for that brother's salvation, as much as your own. If you reject the brother, know that Christ did not - that brother is as much a member of the Body of Christ as you are. "Clothe the less comely", we are told - not to Quarantine and shun them.

...and hear them, Lord please just hear them; with an open heart, with much supplication before the Lord - praying that you may be given ears to hear and eyes to see that you might rightly come to the full knowledge of the truth; for the truth SHALL set you free. If the Lord convicts you that this brother is wrong, and if by reason with Scripture and if in honest and upright prayer you cannot gain them, then depart - but depart in peace. If the Lord convicts you that you are wrong, then without false pretense or pride but in good faith confess your lack and seek understanding and forgiveness even from the Lord.


**********************
I have been finding solace in the ministry of Back to the Bible this past week. I strongly urge the saints to consider, it's a very good week:


http://www.backtothebible.org/index....age-Right.html

The mission field isn't just across the ocean in a third world country, it's right here too... and it's not just outside the doors of the church building, it's more often than not right within it. Elijah stood up to God's government (Israel) and spoke the Truth in Love. He was fearful and he didn't understand why he was to do it, but he was faithful, and he obeyed. Will we be so faithful, trusting that while we are persecuted and hunted down, He will be faithful to provide for us? Though we may not be fed in a beautiful hall or at a rich table, the Ravens will come to bring us our meat, and the brook will trickle to us the living water... for outside the land is in a famine, anyway, because of the idolatry of God's government.

In Truth,

NeitherFirstnorLast

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by NeitherFirstnorLast

Answer: By trusting in the Lord, not the Brother, to cover the situation. ALL the law hinges on these two things: Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind... and love your neighbour as yourself.

"And who is our neighbour?" A lawyer once asked our Lord this very question, seeking to justify himself (for there were many he could not love). What did the Lord reply?

Luke 10:25-37...

Jesus replied and said, "A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among robbers, and they stripped him and beat him, and went away leaving him half dead.

"And by chance a priest was going down on that road, and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.
"Likewise a Levite also, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side.
"But a Samaritan, who was on a journey, came upon him; and when he saw him, he felt compassion, and came to him and bandaged up his wounds, pouring oil and wine on them; and he put him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn and took care of him.
"On the next day he took out two denarii and gave them to the innkeeper and said, 'Take care of him; and whatever more you spend, when I return I will repay you.'
"Which of these three do you think proved to be a neighbor to the man who fell into the robbers' hands?" And he said, "The one who showed mercy toward him." Then Jesus said to him, "Go and do the same."

When any of us rely on trust, before being love, that is purely a concept of our flesh. As I read in the verses you included it was love your neighbour as yourself. That itself as an all encompassing statement. There's no "if's" and there is no "but's". In Matthew, Jesus took it a step further when He said, "But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you".
I have been perplexed, what is it to be a dissenting one? In the local churches, there's a negative connotation. Definitions I have found are:

1. to differ in sentiment or opinion, especially from the majority; withhold assent; disagree (often followed by from ): Two of the justices dissented from the majority decision.
2. to disagree with the methods, goals, etc., of a political party or government; take an opposing view.
3. to disagree with or reject the doctrines or authority of an established church.

Dissent does not automatically qualify one as being a heretic. Nor does it mean one is trying to cause division. It's as the word is defined, "to disagree". So if we each differ in sentiment or opinion, we are all essentially dissenting ones. Going forward each instance the phrase dissenting one is used, I now see it strictly as a relative term.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by NeitherFirstnorLast

Answer: By trusting in the Lord, not the Brother, to cover the situation. ALL the law hinges on these two things: Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind... and love your neighbour as yourself.

Amen! The ministry of Jesus was one of love. How could Jesus trust man when he knows what is in man's heart?
Matthew 19:16-17a
Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”
“Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good.

When anyone puts their trust in man, they are opening themselves for deception.
Jeremiah 17:9
"The heart is more deceitful than all else And is desperately sick; Who can understand it?

No matter how well-intended a person may be, our heart's are deceitful. One may have the itent of "covering" or strictly withholding information, the result is deceit.

Jeremiah 17:7
"Blessed is the man who trusts in the LORD And whose trust is the LORD."

[NeitherFirstnorLast]

Originally Posted by Terry

Jeremiah 17:7
"Blessed is the man who trusts in the LORD And whose trust is the LORD."

Amen, that's a very significant "is" - our trust isn't only IN Him, it IS Him.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Terry

I have recently read Witness Lee's short book on A Word of Love to Elder's, Co-workers, Lovers, and Seekers of Christ.
Having been impressed with this book, I considered when this word was released, how was it received? Was it a word to be taken superficially? Meaning a word to be spoken, but not to be applied. The word was mean to exhort, encourage, and not be just another message.
Witness Lee speaks of having a shepherding spirit in chapter 2:

"If we lose this spirit, whether we are elders, co-workers, or serving ones, we are finished. This is the main reason why we are so barren, bearing no fruit for so many years. Recently a brother went to care for a couple, but he did not have this spirit. He visited them no more than ten times and became disappointed. Since the couple had no heart for this brother, he reported that it was useless to visit them further. When Pastor Yu visited me, I did not care for him, but he continued to come for three or four months, week after week. We need to have this spirit. We all have to change our concept. Therefore, we need discipling. We have too much of the natural thought. We need to be discipled to have the divine concept, the concept of the Father’s heart and the heart of the Lord Jesus, who came to save sinners."

What is the natural concept? What is profitable and what is not. In our natural man we're too busy. A need to remain occupied. If you visit someone and there's no instantaneous positive reaction, it's a waste of time. In the next section brother Lee spoke of labeling and ranking people. This is precisely what happens when you decide who and who isn't a waste of time. In retrospect we were all a waste of time, but in the gospels we read what God did by sending His Son who in His perfection took all our sins upon the cross.
I appreciate Witness Lee's A Word of Love, but I sensed it was a word taken lightly. I have been noticing for some time when we're in the meetings, there's passivity; an expectation we're the church and if you want to meet with as the practical expression of the church in this city, here we are. No concept of going after people, but in our meetings sitting on our hands waiting for them to come to the local churches. That is why someone such as myself was dormant for 7 years before anyone bothered calling, much less visiting. Even 15 years later A Word of Love hasn't changed the culture about visiting people. To suggest such a concept the response might as well been, "brother you're asking too much". When we're talking about elders and co-workers, they shoulder a greater burden than the average saint. If they're willing to bear resposnsibility, why has it been asking too much to visit people? There has been a corresponding reaction to the lack of visiting people. That reaction becoming the community type churches being much more attractive with their discipling culture. In this present day community type churces are better equipped to meet the needs of the general brother and sister.

A brother came to preach the gospel to me when I was on campus for about a year before I entered the church. I was very happy with my life and didn't want to change anything and didn't care for this brother. However, I was saved and inwardly was afraid of rejecting the Lord. So I tried my best to discourage this brother while at the same time praying to the Lord that I would not reject Him. Later I asked the brother why he kept coming week after week when I never gave him any encouragement. He said that I was honest, if I said that I could go to a meeting then I would go.

As for the idea of "wasting time" on someone. I think God is very wise to have families. A father raises a family and the time spent on a child may go way beyond what others would have considered a waste. I recently watched the movie "the Fighter", based on the true story of Mickey Ward, the welterweight champ. His older brother was a crack head, and when everyone else wanted him to abandon his brother he wouldn't, and it was his brother who ultimately helped him to win the championship.

Of course everyone knows the story of David Tyree, the football player who was arrested for selling drugs, his coach could have cut him loose but didn't and he repayed the coach in the superbowl with one of the most incredible catches on the game winning drive (along with a touchdown catch earlier in the game).

[OBW]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Of course everyone knows the story of David Tyree, the football player who was arrested for selling drugs, his coach could have cut him loose but didn't and he repaid the coach in the superbowl with one of the most incredible catches on the game winning drive (along with a touchdown catch earlier in the game).

Actually, I must admit that I do not know that story. While some sports stories are probably meaningful, there is often a shortcoming. For me, it is in the presumption that grown men accomplish "great" things while being paid immoral sums of money to play a game. So sticking with someone who is arrested selling drugs it not impressive. And even if they "pay it back" by winning the game, what is that?

The impressive thing would be telling of the player, or better yet, the poor kid growing up on the streets of Harlem, who is enticed by the financial benefits of dealing drugs but rejects it for a hard-earned but righteous living as a factory worker, or even a chance to go to college and make something better for himself and others.

Sports can be a way to learn lessons about life. But it is not life. Even for the professionals. That is why they are plagued with drug abuse, womanizing and other evils on a grand scale. Winning the game is not redemption. Facing your error and not getting a special pass because you are a big-time sports name and instead doing your time like the street criminal is more impressive.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by OBW

Actually, I must admit that I do not know that story. While some sports stories are probably meaningful, there is often a shortcoming. For me, it is in the presumption that grown men accomplish "great" things while being paid immoral sums of money to play a game. So sticking with someone who is arrested selling drugs it not impressive. And even if they "pay it back" by winning the game, what is that?

The impressive thing would be telling of the player, or better yet, the poor kid growing up on the streets of Harlem, who is enticed by the financial benefits of dealing drugs but rejects it for a hard-earned but righteous living as a factory worker, or even a chance to go to college and make something better for himself and others.

Sports can be a way to learn lessons about life. But it is not life. Even for the professionals. That is why they are plagued with drug abuse, womanizing and other evils on a grand scale. Winning the game is not redemption. Facing your error and not getting a special pass because you are a big-time sports name and instead doing your time like the street criminal is more impressive.

David Tyree is a Christian who made a mistake and has repented of it. He used his position in sports to evangelize and also talk to school kids about making choices. He was never "famous" or well known. In fact the first time I even heard his name was when he caught the first touchdown pass in the Superbowl (this was the game when the Giants beat the Patriots). The second catch he made was off his helmet from Eli Manning. That was when everyone in NY learned his story. The coach could have easily cut him, there was almost no reason to keep him, while keeping him was a big PR risk if he had a second offense.

The coach had given him a second chance. So one of the greatest upsets in NFL history was forever linked with the story of a coach giving a kid a second chance. I think it makes that catch so much more meaningful when you realize how desperate he was to not let that ball hit the ground, he had dropped it once, didn't want to do that again, especially for the coach that had gone out on a limb for him. Sports may not be life, but making mistakes, and taking a risk to give someone a second chance is.

[ZNPaaneah]

OBW, I wonder if you have really thought your position on sports through? Sports allow us to see what the human body is capable of. It is something that we can all have fellowship in, and yet also learn the limits of what is possible. Through sports we have had tremendous advances in medicine that help everyone. Just in my lifetime the improvement in knee surgery has been truly astounding. You seem upset that only a few athletes (a fraction of 1%) actually get paid to play the sport that they have literally given their whole life to (for free). If you look at all the athletes who play a sport in high school and college, a tiny fraction of them actually make it to the pros and get paid for it, and an even tinier fraction of that group actually makes a lot of money (the average career in the NFL is 3 years). However, a much larger percentage of them may go on to work as PE teachers, coaches, or in some other related field (sports medicine, etc).

Today, in the US we are witnessing an epidemic in obesity and all of the related diseases like diabetes. Without a doubt the single best remedy is physical activity. Sports, teams, PE, etc. are the cure. Demonizing sports is, in my mind, idiotic.

You might think that a large number of bad characters are sports athletes, but then you are only looking at those that are famous (a very, very tiny fraction of 1%). You are ignoring the 99.99% of those that you don't see and don't know.

But back to this thread, the book was on having a spirit to shepherd, and I think the story of David Tyree is an illustrative of that burden.

[TLFisher]

Reading on another thread jarred my memory from an excerpt of a Word of Love. The brother who Witness Lee was referring to in this portion I believe is Bill Freeman.

"Beginning in 1984 I called three urgent conferences of the co-workers and elders. In my opening word I pointed out that among us there is the tendency of division. By this I meant that quite a few capable co-workers in the Lord’s recovery liked to keep their district as their empire, and they liked to attract people to be their particular co-workers. We are all co-workers generally, but some became particular co-workers with certain attracting ones. Therefore, I warned you all. After my speaking, one of the co-workers stood to confess that this was the case. However, at that time I realized that his confession was not strong enough. It was very weak, and today he has become a problem in the Lord’s recovery. He still claims that he is in the recovery, and he still takes the ground of locality. He protests that his meeting is a local church, and he declares that he is one with Brother Lee. He accepts my ministry, and he receives standing orders of the books of the Living Stream Ministry even until today. Recently, he spoke to me for close to one hour to explain his stand. I told him I felt that it was not the Lord’s timing to respond to him at that time. Later, after further consideration with the Lord, I felt that I had received a clear word and that it was the Lord’s timing to respond. I felt to tell him, "You are a division, and whatever you do in your place is a division because you cut your meeting off from all the churches in the recovery. Moreover, you like to visit the rebellious ones and stand with them. You should realize that all the churches are one Body. You cannot stand alone, separate from the other churches. If you do, you are a division." In Corinth some said, “I am of Paul, and I of Apollos, and I of Cephas, and I of Christ” (1 Cor. 1:12). Paul condemned them for this. Even if you say that you are of Christ, that is a division. It is as if Paul said to them, “Is Christ divided? Why do you say that you are of Paul? Do not be of me. I am of you, and we all are of Christ.” First Corinthians 1 shows us that there should not be any differences among us. No one is of Cephas, no one is of Apollos, no one is of Paul, the highest apostle, and no one is even of Christ separately from others. We all are of Christ, who is not divided."
A Word of Love page 20

Thoughts?

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by Terry

Reaading on another thread jarred my memory from an excerpt of a Word of Love. The brother who Witness Lee was referring to in this portion I believe is Bill Freeman.

Later, after further consideration with the Lord, I felt that I had received a clear word and that it was the Lord’s timing to respond. I felt to tell him, "You are a division, and whatever you do in your place is a division because you cut your meeting off from all the churches in the recovery. Moreover, you like to visit the rebellious ones and stand with them. You should realize that all the churches are one Body. You cannot stand alone, separate from the other churches. If you do, you are a division." In Corinth some said, “I am of Paul, and I of Apollos, and I of Cephas, and I of Christ” (1 Cor. 1:12). Paul condemned them for this. Even if you say that you are of Christ, that is a division. It is as if Paul said to them, “Is Christ divided? Why do you say that you are of Paul? Do not be of me. I am of you, and we all are of Christ.” First Corinthians 1 shows us that there should not be any differences among us. No one is of Cephas, no one is of Apollos, no one is of Paul, the highest apostle, and no one is even of Christ separately from others. We all are of Christ, who is not divided.[/B]"
A Word of Love page 20

Thoughts?

UGH ! First off, I hate when people say "I feel I have a clear word from the Lord" or anything similar.. how can a person (especially from the LC) be sure that what they 'feel' is 'from the Lord' ? Why do they bring 'the Lord' into their decisions? Imo, that person probably thinks they have leverage to stand on OR feel more credible by implying "the Lord told me to say this to you".

2ndly...this piece proves if it wasn't Lee's way, it was the highway. I also hate when people use scriptures to intimidate people and overpower them. What if Freeman would have used those same scriptures to trump Lee before Lee used them against Freeman?

I really dislike being around self righteous people.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Terry

"Beginning in 1984 I called three urgent conferences of the co-workers and elders. In my opening word I pointed out that among us there is the tendency of division. By this I meant that quite a few capable co-workers in the Lord’s recovery liked to keep their district as their empire, and they liked to attract people to be their particular co-workers.

I now find these words despicable.

This was a "word of love?"

We now have the advantage of history to evaluate every so-called "division" in the LC. Each and every time there was a "division," a.k.a. a "storm," or a "rebellion," it was WL and his minions intimidating other leaders into submission. Either these leaders were simply acting as "whistle-blowers" to alert others of LSM unrighteousnesses or were acting as elder-shepherds caring for the flock of God and resisting LSM abuses and controls.

WL intimidation always leveraged a distorted form of oneness to garner maximum advantage. He demanded every liberty for himself, yet permitted none of it for others. He demanded utter consecration to himself and to his ministry, while robbing the Lord of His own rightful place in the body. WL would rebuke others for "being of Christ," while coercing them to "be of Lee." His own mandates robbed others of the right to follow the leading of the Spirit, thus bringing the church of God into bondage. WL made enemies of brothers because he could not work with anyone.

Then when the "storm" was over, WL would give a conference about the freedom we have in Christ to follow the leading of the Spirit.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Terry

" I told him I felt that it was not the Lord’s timing to respond to him at that time. Later, after further consideration with the Lord, I felt that I had received a clear word and that it was the Lord’s timing to respond."

Such a word is probably more soul than it is spirit. Would have been better if he said, "In my opinion.....".

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Terry

""You are a division, and whatever you do in your place is a division because you cut your meeting off from all the churches in the recovery. Moreover, you like to visit the rebellious ones and stand with them. You should realize that all the churches are one Body. You cannot stand alone, separate from the other churches. If you do, you are a division." In Corinth some said, “I am of Paul, and I of Apollos, and I of Cephas, and I of Christ”."

Some may read this and see Witness Lee speaking to a brother. I read this and this is also a word to the local churches affiliated with LSM. When churches and it's leadership make the basis for fellowship through LSM publications, they cut themselves off from the Body of Christ. They separate themselves. It was very east for Witness Lee to speak what he did. Witness Lee had a ministry he was speaking. Saints at the local church level were received and cut off based if they were of Lee. For debate sake, suppose Witness Lee was speaking of Bill Freeman and Scottsdale. How did it come to be they ended in Scottsdale?
I say they did not feel comfortable re-speaking Lee's ministry and wanted to testifty according to their Experience of Christ in their daily life. This was a time of Us versus Them. Either you're for Lee's ministry or you're against it. There was no middle ground. Since they could not take the New Way, these ones left.
Maybe with these ones their feeling for their locality, to have fellowship with LSM localities, their receiving would need to be based on taking LSM publications. Only then could there be fellowship between LSM local churches and non-LSM local churches.
What is the sense today? Could the saints meeting in Scottsdale have fellowship with the Church in Phoenix? Could the saints meeting in Raleigh and Durham in North Carolina have fellowship with the Church in Charlotte? Could Westminster Church Assembly have fellowship with the Church in Anaheim and other Orange County localities? Could the Church in Moses Lake have fellowship with the Churches in Spokane, Richland, Ephrata, Bellevue, Seattle, etc? With the Lord, it is possible.