LSM Myth Debunked - Nimrod, Madonna & ...

Admin · 01-10-2011, 08:49 AM

LSM Myth Debunked - Nimrod, Madonna & The Two Babylons

PDF ATTACHED

Suannehill · 01-10-2011, 02:55 PM

Well...interesting...
I have to say that I am one who used "Two Babylons" to cleanse my home and life...until...I realized that there was nothing in any part of the world or church that wasn't "pagan".
So...I learned to seek God for what to eliminate in my life.

Ohio · 01-10-2011, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suannehill

Well...interesting...
I have to say that I am one who used "Two Babylons" to cleanse my home and life...until...I realized that there was nothing in any part of the world or church that wasn't "pagan".
So...I learned to seek God for what to eliminate in my life.

How true.

And to think that I destroyed all my idols, only to be instructed to create another one, the "acting" God.

Suannehill · 01-10-2011, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ohio

How true.

And to think that I destroyed all my idols, only to be instructed to create another one, the "acting" God.

you're too quick for me!

01-10-2011, 03:05 PM

Good piece. I have long wondered about the scholarship underlying Hislop's work. His is a creative thesis and I credit him with clever fortification of it. But, alas, to build an edifice with bad lumber is to build an edifice that will eventually collapse ... as Hislop's has here.

Thanks, Nigel. Keep up the good work.

Note: I have an ancient source that shows the deriviation of Hislop's name to be: His slop. Trust me on this one, it goes way back.

Ohio · 01-11-2011, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Admin

LSM Myth Debunked - Nimrod, Madonna & The Two Babylons

PDF ATTACHED

I wish Nigel would quit apologizing for all those footnotes since he obviously doesn't mean it, and has no intention to change his ways.

Nigel also mentions being maligned for "taking quotes out of context," as our beloved Bilbodog is want to say. I am convinced, regarding many of the writings of LSM, that there is not enough "context" in all the world to satisfy their needs.

OBW · 01-11-2011, 04:12 PM

For Nigel's consideration: Since the insistence on the errant scholarship of Hislop is initially Lee's, do we conclude that Lee himself is errant. Not just the LSM after his death?

NeitherFirstnorLast · 01-13-2011, 01:21 PM

Brothers and Sisters,

I have heard many modern archaeologists attack Biblical references and oral-traditions, telling us they're all myths. They told us there was no such thing as a kingdom of the Hittites, that it was preposterous to believe a Hebrew slave could ever have risen as Joseph did to stand beside Pharoah in Egypt, and that it was impossible to believe that David, a mere shepherd, was ever more than that.... that there never was a kingdom he ruled. Praise the Lord, these foolish men have always been proven wrong!

Ultimately, Christians rely on a single written source to reveal to us the Truth - the Inspired Word of God. In this book, our God reveals His opinion on idolatry:

Galatians 5:17-21 "For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other . . . . Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; . . . Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Jeremiah 10:1-16 "Hear what the LORD says to you, people of Israel. This is what the LORD says:

“Do not learn the ways of the nations
or be terrified by signs in the heavens,
though the nations are terrified by them.
For the practices of the peoples are worthless;
they cut a tree out of the forest,
and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel.
They adorn it with silver and gold;
they fasten it with hammer and nails
so it will not totter.
Like a scarecrow in a cucumber field,
their idols cannot speak;
they must be carried
because they cannot walk.
Do not fear them;
they can do no harm
nor can they do any good.”
No one is like you, LORD;
you are great,
and your name is mighty in power.
Who should not fear you,
King of the nations?
This is your due.
Among all the wise leaders of the nations
and in all their kingdoms,
there is no one like you. They are all senseless and foolish;
they are taught by worthless wooden idols.
Hammered silver is brought from Tarshish
and gold from Uphaz.
What the craftsman and goldsmith have made
is then dressed in blue and purple—
all made by skilled workers.
But the LORD is the true God;
he is the living God, the eternal King.
When he is angry, the earth trembles;
the nations cannot endure his wrath.

“Tell them this: ‘These gods, who did not make the heavens and the earth, will perish from the earth and from under the heavens.’”[a]
But God made the earth by his power;
he founded the world by his wisdom
and stretched out the heavens by his understanding.
When he thunders, the waters in the heavens roar;
he makes clouds rise from the ends of the earth.
He sends lightning with the rain
and brings out the wind from his storehouses. Everyone is senseless and without knowledge;
every goldsmith is shamed by his idols.
The images he makes are a fraud;
they have no breath in them.
They are worthless, the objects of mockery;
when their judgment comes, they will perish.
He who is the Portion of Jacob is not like these,
for he is the Maker of all things,
including Israel, the people of his inheritance—
the LORD Almighty is his name".

Regardless of the "human side" of the story behind the origins of the idolatry practiced within the Catholic church, the Lord tells us that the true origin of it is man's sinful lust of the flesh - to be able to hold a "god" in his hands, and to replace Him with a "worthless object of mockery". It is a deception of the Enemy to think otherwise.

Do we have brothers and sisters in the Catholic church? Undoubtedly we do; but this article seems to suggest that the foul practices within this church need to be condoned by Christians simply to prevent hurting the feelings of her members; and that is not right. Liberal churches of this age have said the same thing about same-sex marriages, and even about standing for the Truth of Christ in the face of opposing religions (Islam, Judaism). They reject the authority of the Word of God and instead practice a kind of humanism; ultimately rejecting what God says in favor of what sounds good to their own ears.

I for one will not be dissuaded by the intellectual ramblings of modern scholars, who it seems are ever looking to refute any sources more ancient than the most recently published "Archaeology Today" articles. Whether Nimrod and Semiramis are indeed the source of the Madonna and child or not, IS ultimately irrelevant. Idolatry is an abomination in the eyes of God; because it is nothing less than a veil that hides His true nature from the eyes of man. You cannot have a personal, intimate relationship with a statue of wood or stone. The real God wants to live inside of you, and died and rose again so that you can know Him that way.

For what it is worth, let me relate this bit from my own journey with the Lord. I mentioned in another post that I lived in a small French town, and, in search of fellowship, went to the Catholic church there. In fact, I went to three different Catholic churches over a period of about six months. The last Catholic church I went to had an English speaking Priest, and I walked in with my two children while the congregation was still reciting their Hail Marys. Now, I know the "Hail Mary". I'd heard it many times before, although I'd never said it: "Hail Mary full of grace, blessed art thou amongst women and holy is the fruit of thy womb Jesus. Hail Mary Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and in the hour of our deaths, amen." I knelt in the pews with two of my children, as I sat there listening there was a dread heaviness that sat over me. "Do not say those words." He said.

We didn't.

Mother of God? No, she is not. Nor would she ever have wanted that kind of veneration. Pray for us? Mary was a dear sister in Christ, but nothing more than that. To pray through her for our own selves puts a dead saint before the Lord! What did Christ himself say on the matter?

Matthew 12:46-50 " While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.”
He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?”Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”

In Christ,

Neither First nor Last

01-10-2011, 02:55 PM	#2
Suannehill Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: North of Mansfield Ohio Posts: 165	Re: LSM Myth Debunked - Nimrod, Madonna & ... Well...interesting... I have to say that I am one who used "Two Babylons" to cleanse my home and life...until...I realized that there was nothing in any part of the world or church that wasn't "pagan". So...I learned to seek God for what to eliminate in my life. __________________ http://godswordtowomen.org/Lesson%201.htm

01-10-2011, 03:05 PM	#5
Mark Guest Posts: n/a	Re: LSM Myth Debunked - Nimrod, Madonna & ... Good piece. I have long wondered about the scholarship underlying Hislop's work. His is a creative thesis and I credit him with clever fortification of it. But, alas, to build an edifice with bad lumber is to build an edifice that will eventually collapse ... as Hislop's has here. Thanks, Nigel. Keep up the good work. Note: I have an ancient source that shows the deriviation of Hislop's name to be: His slop. Trust me on this one, it goes way back.

01-11-2011, 04:12 PM	#7
OBW Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: DFW area Posts: 4,384	Re: LSM Myth Debunked - Nimrod, Madonna & ... For Nigel's consideration: Since the insistence on the errant scholarship of Hislop is initially Lee's, do we conclude that Lee himself is errant. Not just the LSM after his death? __________________ Mike I think . . . . I think I am . . . . therefore I am, I think — Edge OR . . . . You may be right, I may be crazy — Joel

01-13-2011, 01:21 PM	#8
NeitherFirstnorLast Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 348	Re: LSM Myth Debunked - Nimrod, Madonna & ... Brothers and Sisters, I have heard many modern archaeologists attack Biblical references and oral-traditions, telling us they're all myths. They told us there was no such thing as a kingdom of the Hittites, that it was preposterous to believe a Hebrew slave could ever have risen as Joseph did to stand beside Pharoah in Egypt, and that it was impossible to believe that David, a mere shepherd, was ever more than that.... that there never was a kingdom he ruled. Praise the Lord, these foolish men have always been proven wrong! Ultimately, Christians rely on a single written source to reveal to us the Truth - the Inspired Word of God. In this book, our God reveals His opinion on idolatry: Galatians 5:17-21 "For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other . . . . Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; . . . Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Jeremiah 10:1-16 "Hear what the LORD says to you, people of Israel. This is what the LORD says: “Do not learn the ways of the nations or be terrified by signs in the heavens, though the nations are terrified by them. For the practices of the peoples are worthless; they cut a tree out of the forest, and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel. They adorn it with silver and gold; they fasten it with hammer and nails so it will not totter. Like a scarecrow in a cucumber field, their idols cannot speak; they must be carried because they cannot walk. Do not fear them; they can do no harm nor can they do any good.” No one is like you, LORD; you are great, and your name is mighty in power. Who should not fear you, King of the nations? This is your due. Among all the wise leaders of the nations and in all their kingdoms, there is no one like you. They are all senseless and foolish; they are taught by worthless wooden idols. Hammered silver is brought from Tarshish and gold from Uphaz. What the craftsman and goldsmith have made is then dressed in blue and purple— all made by skilled workers. But the LORD is the true God; he is the living God, the eternal King. When he is angry, the earth trembles; the nations cannot endure his wrath. “Tell them this: ‘These gods, who did not make the heavens and the earth, will perish from the earth and from under the heavens.’”[a] But God made the earth by his power; he founded the world by his wisdom and stretched out the heavens by his understanding. When he thunders, the waters in the heavens roar; he makes clouds rise from the ends of the earth. He sends lightning with the rain and brings out the wind from his storehouses. Everyone is senseless and without knowledge; every goldsmith is shamed by his idols. The images he makes are a fraud; they have no breath in them. They are worthless, the objects of mockery; when their judgment comes, they will perish. He who is the Portion of Jacob is not like these, for he is the Maker of all things, including Israel, the people of his inheritance— the LORD Almighty is his name". Regardless of the "human side" of the story behind the origins of the idolatry practiced within the Catholic church, the Lord tells us that the true origin of it is man's sinful lust of the flesh - to be able to hold a "god" in his hands, and to replace Him with a "worthless object of mockery". It is a deception of the Enemy to think otherwise. Do we have brothers and sisters in the Catholic church? Undoubtedly we do; but this article seems to suggest that the foul practices within this church need to be condoned by Christians simply to prevent hurting the feelings of her members; and that is not right. Liberal churches of this age have said the same thing about same-sex marriages, and even about standing for the Truth of Christ in the face of opposing religions (Islam, Judaism). They reject the authority of the Word of God and instead practice a kind of humanism; ultimately rejecting what God says in favor of what sounds good to their own ears. I for one will not be dissuaded by the intellectual ramblings of modern scholars, who it seems are ever looking to refute any sources more ancient than the most recently published "Archaeology Today" articles. Whether Nimrod and Semiramis are indeed the source of the Madonna and child or not, IS ultimately irrelevant. Idolatry is an abomination in the eyes of God; because it is nothing less than a veil that hides His true nature from the eyes of man. You cannot have a personal, intimate relationship with a statue of wood or stone. The real God wants to live inside of you, and died and rose again so that you can know Him that way. For what it is worth, let me relate this bit from my own journey with the Lord. I mentioned in another post that I lived in a small French town, and, in search of fellowship, went to the Catholic church there. In fact, I went to three different Catholic churches over a period of about six months. The last Catholic church I went to had an English speaking Priest, and I walked in with my two children while the congregation was still reciting their Hail Marys. Now, I know the "Hail Mary". I'd heard it many times before, although I'd never said it: "Hail Mary full of grace, blessed art thou amongst women and holy is the fruit of thy womb Jesus. Hail Mary Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and in the hour of our deaths, amen." I knelt in the pews with two of my children, as I sat there listening there was a dread heaviness that sat over me. "Do not say those words." He said. We didn't. Mother of God? No, she is not. Nor would she ever have wanted that kind of veneration. Pray for us? Mary was a dear sister in Christ, but nothing more than that. To pray through her for our own selves puts a dead saint before the Lord! What did Christ himself say on the matter? Matthew 12:46-50 " While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.” He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?”Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.” In Christ, Neither First nor Last