Revelation 2:26,27

[Raptor]

"And to the one who overcomes and continues in My work until the end, I will give authority over the nations. 27He will rule them with an iron scepter and shatter them like pottery —just as I have received authority from My Father."

This is a warning and promise spoken to believers. It is a conditional statement, i.e. IF you are victorious you will rule with Christ; therefore if you are not victorious, you will not rule with Christ over the nations.

The calling is addressed to believers. They have overcome the world by believing in Christ and have eternal life. Yet they still need to live a sanctified and fruitful life to the end, and be victorious over the flesh, the world and Satan in order to receive the top prize of ruling during the Millenial Kingdom.

Do not be deceived by the sugar coated, watered down, leavened teachings that misguide you saying that just because you are a believer, you automatically qualify to be a king.

[Ex-LC-Rosemead]

I agree with you, being saved is an active duty or spiritual duty that we have to learn. God is going to test us like He tested Job and we have to remain under that testing or tribulation until He comes or is finished with us, that is, until He deems us mature enough to rule and reign with His Son. He wants perfection and will get it if we work with Him. Getting saved is only the first step in God's plan, our spiritual life and growth starts after getting saved or ends if we so choose. Those epistles that Jesus told John to write in Revelation chapters 2 & 3 are full of incentives to go on with Him. His ultimate goal is discussed in 1 Cor. 15:23-28.

[PeterG]

Reward... not easy. And I think the Bible does not put it in the foreground for good reason.

Certainly for everything that Jesus has overcome, we will not receive the reward. And that encloses everything we mean by “sanctification”.

Therefore „overcoming“ in Revelation seems not to be overcoming “the world, the flesh and Satan”. Not in the sense like in the Gospels and Paul, where the gospel enters the world. It is the overcoming of things that try to destroy what already has overcome in Christ. It’s the overcoming of spiritual degeneration.

And that’s why John adresses it at the church, which is the spiritual goal of this era. God wants His church, for which Christ already died, not to lose its standing, not to give up what it posseses. And where this does happen, God looks out for at least some individuals who do not fall over, but faithfully hold on to His work until the end. They might be worthy for some more tasks.

Sheep PeterG

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by PeterG

Certainly for everything that Jesus has overcome, we will not receive the reward. And that encloses everything we mean by “sanctification”.

Sanctification is one of those truths that has two aspects, both supported with verses. Best described as positional and conditional. Positional sanctification is based on what Jesus has done. All genuine believers are saints by virtue of having been bought by the blood of the Lamb. Like in 1 Cor. 14:33, "For He is not the God of disorder, but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints." Here sanctification is given by virtue of being a believer.


Positional sanctification is based on the living of the believer, their choices and willingness to submit to the Lord and obey His Word and live a holy life, day to day. Like in Hebrews 12:14, "Pursue peace with all, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord,". Here living a sanctified life is something to pursue, to work for.

A genuine believer is a saint in a general sense, but if he is watching porn, he is not a saint in a specific sense. All saints have eternal life, and will never lose it. Yet only the believers who in addition choose to live a holy and sanctified life and are victorious will receive the reward in the Millenial Kingdom.

[PeterG]

I understand what you mean. And we can make the “positional/conditional” distinction in a technical sense. But Jesus died for all our sins, even the ones we have a choice in and commit willfully. There is no reward for not watching porn anymore.

Likewise, there are no “general” and “specific” saints. But what there are are foolish and wise saints, awake and sleepy, understanding and ignorant. The wise, alert and understanding ones will remain faithful to God's intentions until the end. They have an advantage for this “victorious” behavior. But not because gaining power over certain personal sins.

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by PeterG

But Jesus died for all our sins, even the ones we have a choice in and commit willfully. T

Yes, and that´s why a believer will not go to the lake of fire, all our sins have been forgiven. But that does not mean that the Lord will not discipline you in this age or the next for sins or sinful living. Especially unconfessed sins. Ananias and Zaphira willfuly sinned and the Lord punished them with death in this life. There are many other cases.

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by PeterG

There is no reward for not watching porn anymore.

"But you do have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their garments, and because they are worthy, they will walk with Me in white. Like them, he who overcomes will be dressed in white." Rev. 3:4-5 If watching porn is not soiling your garments, then what is? If you soil your garments (Jude 23) you will be judged as not worthy. If you do not, you are considered as worthy. Why is this so hard to understand? Please just read the Bible.

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by PeterG

Therefore „overcoming“ in Revelation seems not to be overcoming “the world, the flesh and Satan”.

Sure it is, both directly and indirectly. Is there any other source for things you need to overcome? Satan is above us, the world around us, and the flesh in us.
Just read Revelation 2 and 3. Of all the items mentioned to overcome, which is not related to any of those three?