|
Introductions and Testimonies Please tell everybody something about yourself. Tell us a little. Tell us a lot. Its up to you! |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
07-19-2024, 11:05 PM | #1 |
Guest
Posts: n/a
|
After I Left The Local Recovered Church
After I left the Local recovered church, I spent a lot of time reading church history. I understand that people on here still follow a lot of dispensational theology because that’s what Witness Lee did, and he even went to absolute hyper route that’s beyond any kind of teachings one will find for 1900 years of the existence of the church. I read the current offerings of the sheperdingwords.com, and I could not disagree more with any of their beliefs.
I don’t believe for a second that Witness Lee had anything to add to or to interpret Scripture in any shape or form. He just exaggerated the views that came about in 1800s and the early 20th century from people like Darby and Scofield. Nether is he a trustworthy source for any theological beliefs. |
08-01-2024, 07:33 AM | #2 |
Member
Join Date: May 2024
Posts: 22
|
Re: After I Left The Local Recovered Church
Yeah, from what I have seen, most of the people in LC believe dispensational theology. They say that Jews are God's people, and we have to unconditionally support the modern day State of Israel to resotre all its land and defeat its enemies in order to trigger the event of the second coming of Christ. It seems like they think that Jew is superior than other human races. It sounds so racist to me, and that the primary reason I decided to leave LC.
|
08-02-2024, 08:43 PM | #3 | |
Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Renton, Washington
Posts: 3,545
|
Re: After I Left The Local Recovered Church
Quote:
1. On the point "They say that Jews are God's people" - I agree. 2. On the point "we have to unconditionally support the modern day State of Israel" - I disagree. Something has to be said regarding the USS Liberty. It was sunk by Israeli forces. https://history.state.gov/historical...964-68v19/d284 3. On the point "resotre all its land and defeat its enemies in order to trigger the event of the second coming of Christ." - I have a different point of view. Why not expel Israeli settlements and donate the West Bank to the Palestinians as their sovereign land. Thus going forward any action taken against Israeli citizens might prompt Israel to defend itself from another sovereign nation. 4. On the point "they think that Jew is superior than other human races." I have never heard that spoken. They're ordinary people just like everyone else.
__________________
The Church in Los Angeles 1971-1972 Phoenix 1972-1973 Albuquerque 1973-1975 Anaheim 1976-1979 San Bernardino 1979-1986 Bellevue 1993-2000 Renton 2009-2011 |
|
08-08-2024, 07:53 AM | #4 | |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Greater Ohio
Posts: 13,693
|
Re: After I Left The Local Recovered Church
Quote:
Regarding dispensational theology promoted by JN Darby, the Exclusive Brethren, Scofield Bible, et.al., there is some value with those teachings to understand scripture, but like anything, they can be taken to the extreme.
__________________
Ohio's motto is: With God all things are possible!. Keeping all my posts short, quick, living, and to the point! |
|
08-08-2024, 09:53 AM | #5 | |
Member
Join Date: May 2024
Posts: 22
|
Re: After I Left The Local Recovered Church
Quote:
Mark 12:31: The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.” Dispensationalism emphasizes a literal interpretation of the Bible, particularly prophetic texts. This approach leads to the belief that promises made to Israel in the Old Testament will be fulfilled literally to the nation of Israel and not allegorically or spiritually through the Church. Dispensationalism is kind of a religious extremism and an exterme way to interpret bible. Dispensationalism has resulted in so many Christian Extremism and Christian extremists, especially Jewish supremacy around the world. Look at what Jesus said in the following verse. Matthew 7:18: "A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit." It looks like to me that Dispensationalism is a bad tree. If you believe in the new Testament, as most serious orthodox Christians do for over thousands years, Israel and the Church are united under Jesus Chirst. The Church is the true Israel, and the ture Jerusalem, and the true Christians are the third temple. Galatians 3:28-29: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise." This passage suggests a unity in Christ that transcends ethnic distinctions. Ephesians 2:14-16: "For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility...that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace." This passage emphasizes the unity of Jews and Gentiles in the body of Christ. |
|
08-10-2024, 07:05 PM | #6 |
Member
Join Date: May 2024
Posts: 22
|
Re: After I Left The Local Recovered Church
When talking about dispensationalism. We need to ansewer some fundamental questions.
1. Is modern Israel is the Biblical Israel? 2. What does Israel actually mean in the New Testament? 3. Does the Bible mandate Christians to support the modern nation of Israel? 4. Who are the true chosen people according the New Testament? 5. Who are true descendant of Abraham according the New Testament? 6. Does God want a political nation on the earth or a spiritual kingdom that is not of this world? 7. What are the common themes in the New Testament? 8. When God gave Israelis the promised land, what were the conditions that came with the promise? 9. Do the modern Israelis believe in Jesus Christ? |
08-10-2024, 08:35 PM | #7 |
Guest
Posts: n/a
|
Re: After I Left The Local Recovered Church
Romans is a good book to consider when regarding the matter of the blood descendants of Abraham. I imagine Romans 11 is a key passage used by those who believe Israel has a unique place in biblical prophecy.
|
08-11-2024, 06:46 AM | #8 | |
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 734
|
Re: After I Left The Local Recovered Church
WitnessMe, replacement theology is false and was not held to by the early church. It arrived later in church history during the 4th century by Augustine so it should be treated with suspicion. Paul clearly teaches against replacement theology in Romans 11 and says that even though Israel has hardened it's heart against God, God did not abandon them and will fulfill his promise to them at a later time.
Romans 11:1-2: "I ask, then, has God rejected his people? By no means! I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, a member of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew." Romans 11:11-12: "So I ask, did they stumble in order that they might fall? By no means! Rather, through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous. Now if their trespass means riches for the world, and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean!" Romans 11:17-18: "But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you." Romans 11:25-26: "Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, 'The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob.'" However I don't think John Darby's form of dispensationalism is scriptural either. I believe that the church inherits the promises of Israel without replacing it. The church and Israel are distinct but not separate, it's "both", "and". The church is part of the "commonwealth of Israel" which Paul refers to in Ephesians: Ephesians 2:12-13 "Remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ." You should also look into Commonwealth or progressive dispensationalism theology which more accurately reflects the writings of the early church fathers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_Theology Quote:
__________________
1 John 4:9 This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. |
|
08-11-2024, 06:53 AM | #9 | |
Admin/Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,100
|
Re: After I Left The Local Recovered Church
Quote:
"Dispensationalism is an extra-biblical framework which identifies and names periods of time as ‘ages’ or ‘dispensations.’ When I say, ‘extra-biblical’ I mean that it comes from outside the Bible. I am not implying or suggesting that just because it is extra-biblical that it is wrong. It is based on analytical observations which (divides) various periods of time into ‘ages’ or ‘dispensations.’ In this sense, a ‘dispensation’ is an age, where God is administering His plans differently according to His design for that age or ‘dispensation’. In the simplest terms, it is a phase of time with God’s plan for the world and mankind. So, before Christ’s death and resurrection there was an ‘age’ of Law and after there is an ‘age’ of Grace." -Matt Anderson (Forum member) I think this is an important distinction when discussing dispensationalism and/or any other biblical topic. That is, what is the source of the teaching? We gave Witness Lee a pass on this matter and ended up in a world of hurt. We also failed to acknowledge that whatever Witness Lee taught was an interpretation of scripture. HIS interpretation of scripture. But as Matt said above, extra-biblical or interpretation doesn't mean it's wrong. What then? Test all things. Acts 17:10 Then the brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea. When they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11 These were more [d]fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so. Have we learned this lesson? That is, "search the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things are so". Is dispensationalism true/valid/scriptural? Nell |
|
|
|