Separation and/or Exclusion - God´s way of dealing with unrighteousness

[Raptor]

Throughout the entire Bible, we can see that God deals with unrighteousness among His creatures, whether angelic or human, believers or unbelievers by warning, rebuking, disciplining, and/or punishing. And there is one common element throughout all the different ways that God applies His judgements. This common element is the principal of separation and/or exclusion. God´s judgements are applied in different ways, to different degrees and durations, but the principal of separation and exclusion remains throughout. The following examples clearly show God´s judgements by separation and exclusion:

• When Satan originally rebelled, he was cast out of the third heaven. In the future he will be cast out of the second heaven down to the earth, and then excluded from the earth down into the Abyss, and finally cast into the lake of fire for eternal separation and exclusion.
• The evil spirits mentioned by Peter are separated out and kept in some kind of pits of darkness, awaiting the final judgement.
• When Adam and Eve fell, they were cast out of Paradise and excluded from partaking of the tree of life.
• When Cain sinned, he was driven out and separated from the presence of the Lord.
• God used the flood to cut off all life, all flesh from the earth except Noah and his family.
• Esau gave up his birthright and so was excluded from the double portion of the family inheritance.
• Breaking the law and other conditions according to the statues and ordinances in the Old Testament resulted in different degrees of separation and/or exclusion, from isolation to the cutting off from God´s people and even death:
  • Miriam was stricken with leprosy and separated from the camp for 7 days
  • Countless children of Israel were excluded from the Good Land, including Moses and many were punished with death
  • God´s glory departed from Israel when the ark was captured, separating them from the presence of the Lord
  • David lost the joy of salvation and prayed to get it back and pleaded not to be separated from the presence of the Lord
  • Israel was separated from the land when they were captured and taken to Babylon
• The result of not believing in the Son of God is to perish, which is the ultimate separation from God and exclusion from life
• The rich man that died and went to Hades is separated from Paradise in a place of torment and excluded from any peace, joy, comfort and hope
• Unrighteous Christian workers will be separated from the Lord and excluded from entering the Kingdom of the Heavens
• The evil believer who does not regard the Lord´s coming, abuses other believers and lives immorally will be cut in pieces and grouped with hypocrites, thus being separated and excluded from the Lord and His faithful servants during the Kingdom age
• The five foolish virgins are separated from the wise, they have to leave and buy oil, they are excluded from the wedding feast, the door is shut and the Lord will not open the door. (Matt. 25)
• The lazy and worthless servant who buried his talent is separated from the joy of the Lord and thrown into outer darkness (Matt. 25)
• Certain situations of unrepentant sin or division in the church call for separation and exclusion of a believer from the congregation, i.e. “excommunication”
• Some believers that partook of the Lord´s table inappropriately got sick, (as discipline, separated from health) and some even died (as punishment, excluded from life)
• Believers Ananias and Sapphira were punished with death for their sin, which is the ultimate separation from God´s people and exclusion from life, (yet they are saved eternally). Believers can commit sin unto death, as mentioned in the epistles of John.
• The Judgement Seat of Christ will separate good and faithful believers from evil and unfaithful believers; fire will separate good works from bad works
• Believers that do not meet the requirements to serve and function as an elder or deacon are excluded from that function, especially immoral believers
• Unrighteous believers, who do not repent of sexual sin, idolatry, etc. will lose their inheritance in the kingdom age, being excluded from participating in the blessings of the Millennial Kingdom and ruling and reigning with Christ
• Believers who do not run the race and endure to the end, will be excluded from receiving the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus mentioned in Philippians 3
• The goats in Matthew 25 go away into eternal punishment, which is total separation and exclusion from God and eternal life
• Believers who do not repent, those who do not hear the Spirit and do the required works in Revelation 2 and 3 will be excluded during the Millennial Kingdom from each one of the blessings and prizes mentioned: eating of the tree of life and hidden manna, receiving the white stone, not harmed by second death, clothed in white, walking with the Lord, authority and ruling over the nations, receiving the morning star and crown, made a pillar, sitting together with Christ on His throne
• Some believers who do not prepare themselves will be separated from the Bride. The Bride makes herself ready with the righteous acts of the saints. Those believers who are not ready will not be invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb, they are excluded.
• When the Lord wages war against the beast and the ten kings, He will be accompanied by the called, chosen and faithful believers. Those believers who are not faithful will be excluded.
• Satan, death, those who take the mark of the beast, the Antichrist, false prophet, all unbelievers, all not in the Book of Life are separated and excluded from the holy city and cast into the lake of fire

[bearbear]

Originally Posted by Raptor

[*]The result of not believing in the Son of God is to perish, which is the ultimate separation from God and exclusion from life

I'm not a Greek scholar and rely on concordances so I asked ChatGPT (model 4) about the verb tense of "belief" in John 3:16

Question: What is the tense of "believe" in John 3:16? Give a detailed explanation.

In modern translations, "believeth" is updated to "believes," which is also present tense.

The present tense in Greek, the original language of the New Testament, indicates a continuous or ongoing action.
The Greek word used in John 3:16 is "πιστεύων" (pisteuōn), which is a present participle. This form of the verb implies not just a single moment of belief but a continuous, ongoing state of believing.
Therefore, the present tense of "believe" in this context emphasizes the necessity of an ongoing, persistent faith in Jesus Christ for one to receive eternal life.
It suggests that belief is not merely a one-time act but a continual trust and reliance on Jesus.
This understanding aligns with the broader theological message of the New Testament, which often emphasizes the importance of perseverance and ongoing faith.

So the implication is that for one to attain eternal life, the belief has to be continuous. True belief in Jesus results in continuous and sustained belief.

To verify Chat-GPT's interpretation we can look at the Greek text for John 3:16 in an online interlinear such as https://biblehub.com/text/john/3-16.htm

The word "believes" according to the resource above is assigned V-PPA-NMS

The notation "V-PPA-NMS" in your concordance refers to the grammatical features of the Greek verb "believes" (πιστεύων, pisteuōn) in John 3:16. Let's break down each part of this notation:

V: Verb

This indicates that the word is a verb.
PPA: Present Participle Active

Present: The present tense in Greek usually indicates an action that is continuous or ongoing. So, "believes" here implies a continuous or habitual action of believing, rather than a one-time event.
Participle: A participle is a form of a verb that can function as an adjective or a noun. In this case, "believes" is describing a person who is in the state of believing.
Active: The active voice indicates that the subject is performing the action. The person is actively believing.
NMS: Nominative Masculine Singular

Nominative: This is the case used for the subject of the sentence. It tells us that the participle is in the nominative case, meaning it is functioning as the subject or is referring to the subject.
Masculine: This tells us the gender of the noun that the participle is modifying or referring to. In Greek, nouns and participles have gender (masculine, feminine, neuter).
Singular: This indicates that the noun or subject is singular, referring to one person.
Putting it all together, "V-PPA-NMS" tells us that "believes" in John 3:16 is a verb in the present tense, indicating ongoing action. It is a participle, meaning it describes a person who is continuously believing. The active voice shows that the subject is actively doing the action of believing. Finally, it is nominative masculine singular, meaning it refers to a singular male subject or is grammatically masculine in the context of Greek grammar.

In John 3:16, this description emphasizes that the belief in Jesus is not just a one-time act but an ongoing, continuous state of faith.

[bearbear]

In John 8, Jesus performs a separation among Jewish believers.

John 8:31
So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed him, “If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples.”

Jesus encourages the Jewish believers to continue abiding in His word, similar to His message in John 15:1-18.

However, just two verses later, their belief begins to waver, and they start to question His teachings.

John 8:33
They answered him, “We are offspring of Abraham and have never been enslaved to anyone. How is it that you say, ‘You will become free’?”

Astonishingly, Jesus goes on to reveal that these Jews, who had just moments before professed belief, are actually children of the devil, not of God.

John 8:44-45
“You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies. But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me.”

These Jews, who initially seemed to be genuine believers, were revealed to be false disciples, much like the second soil in the Parable of the Sower—they believed for a while but eventually fell away. Similarly, like the branches that did not abide in Jesus in John 15, they withered and were ultimately cast into the fire.

They failed to fulfill the promise of John 3:16, as their belief was temporary. Thus, they were exposed as false believers, like tares among the wheat, who did not attain eternal life.

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by bearbear

In John 8, Jesus performs a separation among Jewish believers. John 8:31 So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed him, “If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples.” Jesus encourages the Jewish believers to continue abiding in His word, similar to His message in John 15:1-18. However, just two verses later, their belief begins to waver, and they start to question His teachings.

No neccesarily. It was a complex audience, composed of different kinds of people. When the text says "they answered", we don´t really know exactly who or how many answered. It is better to look at the context: Jesus is talking openly in the temple courts to many people. For example, they are described as "people", Jews, Pharisees, many that believed in Him, those who were trying to kill Him, those who did not understand Him, those unable to accept His message, sons of the devil, those who do not believe Him, those who do not belong to God, those who dishonor Him, those who picked up stones to throw at Him.

According to context, it makes no sense that some, those who believed in Him would also be those who did not believe Him. Would those that believed in Him also be those who were trying to kill Him? Makes no sense. There are different kinds of reactions based on different kinds of conditions, diffent kinds of people. It does not follow that those that beleived in Him were now suddenly those that are waivering or those who had been wanting to kill Him. So most likely some believed, some just listened, some opposed Him, some had been planning to kill Him, etc. Generally speaking, it was the Pharisees who were jealous out of their minds, opposing, asking testing questions and those who wanted to kill Him, not all the people.

[bearbear]

Originally Posted by Raptor

No neccesarily. It was a complex audience, composed of different kinds of people.

In the beginning of John 8 it may have been a complex audience but by verse 30, Jesus' focus narrows instead of broadening.

John 8:30-31
As he was saying these things, many believed in him. So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed him

Notice the shift to the audience to the Jews who had believed in Him. After this verse there is no indication that the audience changes.

John 8:32-33
“Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
They answered him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?”

The they in verse 32 clearly refers to the audience in verse 31 the Jews who had believed him. To suggest otherwise would be committing eisegesis. The conversation between Jesus and the Jews who believed in him continues in such a manner until Jesus declares they are of their father the devil in verse 44.

This is nothing out of the ordinary as there are accounts of people who had superficial belief in Jesus and later fell away.

John 2:23-25
Now while he was in Jerusalem at the Passover Festival, many people saw the signs he was performing and believed in his name. But Jesus would not entrust himself to them, for he knew all people. He did not need any testimony about mankind, for he knew what was in each person.

Just like in John 8, Jesus did not trust himself to people who believed in his name. He knew what was in each person, meaning he knew their hearts reflected their father the devil and they were not truly born again believers just like in John 8.

This also reminds me of the infamous verse which foreshadows the great apostasy during the end times of self professed believers who will take the mark of the beast to save their own life:

John 6:66
After this many of his disciples turned back and no longer walked with him.

A true disciple will continue walking with Jesus. If someone decides to no longer follow Jesus, they are not his sheep.

John 10:27-28
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Someone who is not a sheep of Jesus does not belong to him and will not inherit eternal life.

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by bearbear

In the beginning of John 8 it may have been a complex audience but by verse 30, Jesus' focus narrows instead of broadening.
John 8:30-31
As he was saying these things, many believed in him. So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed him
Notice the shift to the audience to the Jews who had believed in Him. After this verse there is no indication that the audience changes.

There is no way you can confirm who is responding. That´s why I´m saying to look at the context of what is going on. Some were desiring to kill Him. That was a desire they already had from some point in the past. It makes no sense that somebody desiring to kill Him would suddenly now believe in Him and then continue to desire to kill Him. Regardless, I don´t see much benefit in trying to figure out these kind of details in these verses. If your point is that some believed and then changed their mind, well there are many clear descriptions of exactly that in other passages.

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When a person believes in the Son of God, in the message of the gospel, all the redemptive work of Christ on the cross is applied to the new believer. He is justified out of faith in the blood of the Lamb and he is also born again by the Spirit. That cannot be undone or lost, it is a positional fact. That position cannot be affected even if that same person later denies the Lord, whether five minutes later, five days, five weeks, five months, five years or fifty. In other words he is saved by grace through faith and cannot lose his salvation. What can change is the condition of the believer, for better or worse, which will affect his relationship with the Lord and his inheritance in the coming age. That can be gained or lost.