Regarding The Mission and Operation of this Forum

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Jay, you really need to take it down a notch or two with your flippant posts on this thread. You are being moderated because you're being unreasonable. Please reconsider and maybe take a step back for a day or two. This thread will still be open and waiting for you when you come back.

Everyone else is encouraged to make their thoughtful and reasonable posts!
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There are posts by Evangelical on this very thread that are worse than Jay's that went through without the bat of an eye or a whiff of moderation. EvanG called people "delusional" and after being pushed back on he remained "unapologetic" and said "if you want local church people here expect local church answers". And don't get me started on all the countless terrible things both Evangelical and Drake used to say on so many other threads without moderation!

UntoHim, please, with all due respect, the adults on this forum are capable of having adult conversations about a variety of topics that include tense moments, flippant remarks, problematic answers, etc. When those kind of things were posted in the past, the discussion just continued. I recall many times it took quite a few back and forths where it became clear to all that the discussion was being derailed and blowing up into shrapnel before you would step in. That was the light touch that allowed healthy discussion to flourish prior to this point.

Three contributing members - aron, ACuriousFellow, and Jay - have now been moderated in the past few months where they were not even allowed to send PMs, and were not allowed to post anything on the forum before it goes through an approval process, and absolutely none of them have said anything that I would ever consider even close to a real problem on a discussions forum of this type.

Many people have left in the past few years for this exact reason, and you are giving good reason for the remaining few to leave too. Please reconsider the approach you have been taking recently.

I've corresponded with you a few years ago about something similar and always tried to remain respectful, and I recall saying that I would only "push back" once or twice and then let it go because it is not my call. That is still true. This is the only post I intend to write about this unless there is some good public discussion about it that follows. You are welcome to respond publicly by telling me all the reasons I'm wrong or inappropriate, etc, for writing this post, and I won't bite back. I'll let your words stand.

This is what I would suggest - open up a public thread that invites the input of the members and unregistered lurkers. Ask them if they think the moderation here has been healthy moderation or has been unhealthy and heavy-handed moderation. Receive the responses without responding or defending so that people can feel free to be honest without having to worry about getting in contentious back-and-forths. Just solicit the input and that's it. If the responses come in that those reading/writing are fine with it, then so be it - I'm wrong and I'm fine for people to see that I'm wrong. But if the responses come in that there's a problem, then please be willing to hear it.

If you are not willing to do a public thread soliciting input, then that I think will also show there is a problem. But I think you will be willing to do it because I actually recall that you did one similar not that long ago (maybe sometime within the past year)......although now that I think about it, not many people answered, so maybe this will be pointless from the start.

I hope you will leave this post up rather than delete it. There is nothing disrespectful about it or that breaks the rules in it. Thanks for listening.

Trapped

[ThankfulForever777]

Originally Posted by Trapped

Three contributing members - aron, ACuriousFellow, and Jay - have now been moderated in the past few months where they were not even allowed to send PMs, and were not allowed to post anything on the forum before it goes through an approval process, and absolutely none of them have said anything that I would ever consider even close to a real problem on a discussions forum of this type.

Many people have left in the past few years for this exact reason, and you are giving good reason for the remaining few to leave too. Please reconsider the approach you have been taking recently.

I'm new here, but I agree with Trapped. From what I've seen, Jay didn't do anything to deserve a ban or restrictions. Moderation should be more lenient, like on Facebook, to encourage more discussion.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by ThankfulForever777

I'm new here, but I agree with Trapped. From what I've seen, Jay didn't do anything to deserve a ban or restrictions. Moderation should be more lenient, like on Facebook, to encourage more discussion.

Jay's offending comments are no longer posted on the main page. Since you haven't seen the deleted/moderated posts, maybe this will help you to understand our issues. I can tell you that Jay's offensive comments were dripping with sarcasm and insults toward other members. Jay and ACuriousFellow crossed a line which we could not ignore. The quickest way to take a topic off track and/or start a food fight is to ignore such behavior.

A deleted post from ACuriousFellow follows:

**********************************
It's quite unfortunate what is happening here, UntoHim, and Nell.
You remove my ability to speak freely.
You delete my words and therefore bear false testimony by saying my claims are baseless.
You remove my power to message with others privately.
I had not taken you two to be such wicked cowards who cannot face the truth and apologize to others properly.
But you know that there are some who already saw my post.

And you know that many saw your hypocritical behavior in that Trinity thread.
And you know that we are not fools who cannot see what you are doing in censoring others.
Congratulations to the master of this house and his servant for following the pattern of Witness Lee and his successors.
And despite the fact that everyone sees your wickedness, it seems most remain silent.
Or perhaps they were silenced as well?
May the Lord rebuke you two for your hypocrisy, wickedness, and your cowardly behavior. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

John 3:19-21
19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.

*******************************
You may contrast this post with the Mission Statement.

We made multiple attempts to mediate ACF's problem with us. We asked for written evidence he claimed to have against us...with no response other than to repeat comments similar to the statements above.

We tried to help him understand that he never had the ability to "speak freely". His only ability was to speak within the guidelines of the Mission Statement. This is all we ask of anyone.

I don't know if Facebook has a Mission Statement. I don't know if Facebook has a desire to adhere to Christian standards, but we do.

Both ACuriousFellow and Jay have a pathway back to the forum. However, in all good conscience, we cannot/will not lower our standards to comply with such fleshly "adult conversation" that does not comply with our Mission Statement.

I don't know if this dialog is offensive enough to help you reconsider your remarks above. As stated, I realize that the most offensive of the posts from anyone who gets moderated will never be seen. We have no desire to provide a place for angry souls to come and vent unabated. We are here to discuss. Both parties need to listen. That doesn't always happen.

We pray that the Lord will bless this forum by providing many who are able to help those who have been hurt by the behavior of the Local Church Leadership, et al. Posts like the one above, in my opinion, do not help anyone.

Nell

[ThankfulForever777]

Originally Posted by Nell

It's quite unfortunate what is happening here, UntoHim, and Nell.
You remove my ability to speak freely.
You delete my words and therefore bear false testimony by saying my claims are baseless.
You remove my power to message with others privately.
I had not taken you two to be such wicked cowards who cannot face the truth and apologize to others properly.
But you know that there are some who already saw my post.
And you know that many saw your hypocritical behavior in that Trinity thread.
And you know that we are not fools who cannot see what you are doing in censoring others.
Congratulations to the master of this house and his servant for following the pattern of Witness Lee and his successors.
And despite the fact that everyone sees your wickedness, it seems most remain silent.
Or perhaps they were silenced as well?
May the Lord rebuke you two for your hypocrisy, wickedness, and your cowardly behavior. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

Hi Nell, I just wanted to clarify, was this ACF's message a response to your actions, or was it prior to your actions? I would be curious to see the messages that were the basis for the initial ban.

Here is an example of the Facebook guidelines for groups like this:

Respect Others: Treat all members with respect and kindness. Avoid personal attacks, harassment, bullying, or hate speech.

Stay on Topic: Keep discussions relevant to the group's purpose or theme. Off-topic posts may be removed.

No Spam: Do not excessively promote products, services, or self-promotional content. Spamming may result in removal from the group.

No Hate Speech or Discrimination: Do not post content that promotes discrimination, racism, sexism, or any form of hate speech.

No Illegal or Inappropriate Content: Do not post illegal, violent, explicit, or inappropriate content. This includes graphic images or explicit language.

Respect Privacy: Do not share personal information about other members without their consent.

Be Civil: Engage in constructive discussions and debates. Avoid heated arguments or trolling behavior.

No Unauthorized Selling or Trading: Do not sell or trade items without prior approval from group administrators.

Follow Facebook's Community Standards: Adhere to Facebook's Community Standards and Terms of Service.

Respect Group Guidelines: Follow any additional guidelines or rules specific to the group, as set by the administrators.

These rules help maintain a positive and respectful environment within the Facebook group. Administrators may enforce these rules through warnings, post removal, or member removal, depending on the severity of the violation.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by ThankfulForever777

Hi Nell, I just wanted to clarify, was this ACF's message a response to your actions, or was it prior to your actions? I would be curious to see the messages that were the basis for the initial ban.

Here is an example of the Facebook guidelines for groups like this:st removal, or member removal, depending on the severity of the violation….

The posts are mostly on the Economy of God thread. This post was among the last.

Please read our Mission Statement on the main page of this forum, which has existed since 2008.

Nell

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by ThankfulForever777

Hi Nell, I just wanted to clarify, was this ACF's message a response to your actions, or was it prior to your actions? I would be curious to see the messages that were the basis for the initial ban.

Thankful, to be clear, the post that Nell cited was made in response to their actions, i.e., after ACF was moderated. So that was his reaction to being moderated.

Moderating involves being unable to send or receive PMs anymore and means any post you try to write won't be posted unless it is physically approved, which is why you see that language referenced in his post.

Trapped

[UntoHim]

My brothers and sisters.
Sorry for my late reply here. Actually I was going to post something very similar to what Nell has posted.

I think that some of you have lost sight of what this forum is all about. Maybe some of you have never really known (or cared about) what this forum is all about. I think about, and hope for, and pray about this every day for the past 15+ years. I don't think about this as being a cross, but if it is, I gladly bear it no matter how much anyone calls me a coward, a hypocrite, unfair, or unreasonable.

Maybe some of you may have had LSM operatives dig through your trash, harass your innocent relatives at semi-annual training meetings and speak evil things about you among Blended brothers and their associates. Maybe some of you have been in the gunsights of the DCP (Defense & Confirmation Project) and the hundreds of thousands of dollars at their disposal to make you and your family uncomfortable. I hope and pray that you have not.

I would encourage all of you to read the entire forum Mission Statement again (that is if you've actually ever read it to begin with). And if you would forget all else in this statement, I would hope that you could remember this one part:
As such, we believe we have experiences beneficial to others who have left the Local Church and have been damaged while faithful to that group. Our desire is to share with others who were hurt and broken by their experiences, and hopefully help others find their way back to the Lord Jesus Christ and to the True Gospel.

To Nell and I, there are only two groups of people that this forum exists for: Those of us who have have a desire to share with others who have found our way back to the Lord Jesus Christ, and have found the True Gospel; And those who who have been damaged in the Local Church of Witness Lee, and whom the Lord has brought to us in this forum to "shine the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ". If there are others that have a different understanding, and a different agenda, they are more than welcome to observe and even participate to a limited degree, but they will not be allowed to sidetrack, much less greatly hinder the operation of the general mission of this forum.

The Lord bless you
and keep you;
the Lord make his face shine on you
and be gracious to you;
the Lord turn his face toward you
and give you peace.
Numbers 6:24-26
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