If anyone experienced this, please advice.

Hello everyone!

I wanted to post this here and see if anyone here dealt with these circumstances and has any thoughts on this matter. I have a good friend of mine, who is former member of the Local Church. He left the movement not to long ago. He contacted me and asked that I pray for him and give him any advise on how to go about whats happening now in his life.

I don't know many details, but a little time after he left the LC his wife has left him, and remained a strong devout supporter of this church. He told her why he is leaving the Recovery and why he no longer believes these teachings are Biblical. There has been basically no connection now for quite some time, and from what I hear that there are children involved. He really doesn't want to be around the practices and everything that comes with the "church life" anymore, but basically it comes down to choosing to have a family and continue to subject himself to all of it, or to lose the family and relationships with his wife and children. I'm not sure how to even approach the situation. I welcome any input, but please don't do what the LC members do, by just saying, "call on the Lord" and completely distancing themselves without any care or subjective substantive answers. I hope there are some mature adults, spiritual and otherwise, that understand the dilemma here, or have dealt with these issues in the past. I never understood why the recovery members are so aggressive about this group, that they will tear their family apart just to remain faithful to it's leaders. When I got the call like this, I realized it's actually real and alive.

Any help would be appreciated.

(Due to privacy of this matter, and for those involved, please don't ask me personal questions, since everyone here probably knows that the leaders of this group will try to read the tea leaves to identify those involved)
Thanks.

[FaithHopeLove]

Keep living with God. In His Holy Spirit and His Word, in Jesus Christ and in the Father. God will lead him into all truths, in all things that will happen, God will save. God is close to the brokenhearted. He is mighty to save for all those that count on Him. Focus on Him, His love, and all the storms in life will not overcome you. Have faith and do not doubt when asking for God's help, there is always hope and love. Love is the greatest. So keep loving them, despite their spiritual situation. God bless you and your friend.

16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.
17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Matthew 28
King James Version
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...28&version=KJV

[Nell]

FormerLC,

Here's a suggestion that you would probably NEVER hear from the LC members and/or leadership: seek professional Christian counseling.

I understand what you're saying, I think. We have all been there to one extent or another. The situation you describe with your friend is pretty complex for an anonymous forum. At one time, I needed professional counseling myself, and I found a Christian professional counselor who really helped me. Mainly she was able to ask me questions unique to my situation and point me in the right direction. It sounds like your friend needs help prioritizing where to start. A counselor will be able to help with that.

The "counsel" of the LC leadership/membership is clearly slanted and biased toward maintaining the group, not individuals who are suffering in various ways at the hands of the group.

I hope this helps.
Nell

[Ohio]

I agree with Nell.

A seasoned Christian counselor can help, and may be the only course of action.

It is nearly impossible for longtime LC members to distinguish between healthy Bible teachings and the “leaven of Lee” which has so corrupted the so-called “church life.”

Each person exiting the LC can have very unique circumstances. Those who entered as adult Christians have a radically different mindset than those who were raised in that system. The LC changed for the worse over time. Oftentimes there were differences based on geography, and coming from Ohio, sometimes I could not relate to experiences of those in other places.

[TLFisher]

I would agree a professional Christian counselor or at least a professional Marriage counselor.
Beyond professional counseling, there should be no third party interference for this sister and brother. No input from children, parents, relatives, nor ones from the Local Church.
I've heard of too many cases of LC brothers advocating reconciliation or divorce. Pretending to be professional counselors which they are not. Further more to give any weight to "what the brothers say" is the same as saying the brothers have replaced God as the head. Too many voices make reconciliation that much more difficult. Just as many will advocate staying together as there will be ones advocating divorce. It is best for the couple to reach a decision without anyone else's input.

I don't know how many years they've been married. Longer perhaps the better to suggest to remain married even if one spouse wants to remain meeting with the local church and one doesn't. My father is 80 and hasn't been meeting with the LC for the better of 40 years whereas my mother continues to do so.
When my uncle and aunt were meeting with the LC, it was quite common for my aunt to remain home or just attend for the Table meeting and leave before the Prophesying meeting would begin. I'm sure there are other marriages did quite well without both spouses participating in LC meetings.

[Zezima]

Originally Posted by FormerLC

basically it comes down to choosing to have a family and continue to subject himself to all of it, or to lose the family and relationships with his wife and children.

Seems like a harsh ultimatum. Maybe I’m an anomaly, but I think two people can be married while sharing different beliefs and still live in harmony.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by FormerLC

Hello everyone!

(...)
(Due to privacy of this matter, and for those involved, please don't ask me personal questions, since everyone here probably knows that the leaders of this group will try to read the tea leaves to identify those involved)
Thanks.

Few cents from me...
Personally, I do not believe that any so called " professional Christian counselor" can help.
In our Christian life we need Elders. Godly people who will give Word from God.
This is not a matter of package "know how" supported by Bible verses, but real fellowship and prayer on knees.
Then after hours of talk and prayer, God can reveal His will and wisdome.
I do not know many detailes, but as long he can stay at home, I advise to do it.
Worst thing is, when brother or sister gives strong conditions of living togather.
If Paul encourage us to stay with heathen spouse then so much more we should take care of family which declare is Christian.
When I left LC, my wife was still there. After months Lord attrackted her.
I was not fighting.
My daughter is still there.
I do not know which part is more fighting.
You said: " no advise like: turn to the Lord". I would say: Turn to the Lord with someone!
Unfortunately, they use it as : take care of yourself! Lord will help You!
I can recommend at least one of four sermons of Zac Poonen.
Through the power of ressurection.
The choice can come some day: Lord or family.
But to know this, we need really deep insight of that situation.
I am affraid, that U will get only generall advice here.
Nothing will replace real fellowship. Even on phone.
I do recommend to find saints, to whom You feel you can trust. Godly people.
Not all are religious, and not all are dead.
My brother wanted ascape from ship as first 25 year ago. I told him not to do it and go back to his wife. They are still together.
Without turnig on knees to Real Jesus, who whisper sometimes after hours of silence, ther is no way. ON KNEES.
They do not practice prayer on knees.
If there is a need, even lay down on floor crying. If Lord will tell to you two to go to lawyer, do so.
If He will tell You to do other way, do so.
Remeber, where is "two or three".
It can sounds familiar, but what can I do if they call themself Christians, teach HIGH PICK REVELATIONS and do not practice them?
That is why detox takes long time.
Lord is faithfull. Trust him with all your heart. Do not panick, pray, calm down, and die. He has to die, and you have to die for this situation.
Wait for the Lord.
I know many situations like this with many different results.
I can discribe them, but there is no need for it.
There is only one way- Jesus Christ.
If that brother was on that Way, he will have that longing in his heart.
But if he believed in "other Jesus" it can be good time to find Him and put trust in Him.
I will ad my prayer for this situation.
Read what Jesus tought and apply it in live. Become his disciple.
Pay every price. Walk in His shadow.
Psalm 91 !!!
God bless You all!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9qr4yCdhtU&t=1s

[FaithHopeLove]

This is from my own experience.

If you want to move on with God, never ever look back. What do I mean by that?

59 He said to another man, “Follow me.”
But he replied, “Lord, first let me go and bury my father.”
60 Jesus said to him, “Let the dead bury their own dead, but you go and proclaim the kingdom of God.”
61 Still another said, “I will follow you, Lord; but first let me go back and say goodbye to my family.”
62 Jesus replied, “No one who puts a hand to the plow and looks back is fit for service in the kingdom of God.”

Luke 9
New International Version
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...09&version=NIV

What I get from my experience in these words is that, moving on with God has nothing to do with family. Our family's spiritual situation is not ours. They may be at somewhere else that is different to us, but we must follow the Lord. This does not mean we should treat them differently, no. We still love and care for them the same. We also cannot make them follow the Lord. None of us is able to follow the Lord unless He calls us, and that is only by His grace and mercy. So, keep living and going with Him, He is more than able to save us.

Thank you all for some advice that I could take and speak about with him. I know we are all people that have things to deal with, and it’s the ability to council each other as believers that makes a big difference. When you hear or read few words of people who aren’t bound and restrained to a particular agenda or fettered to uphold the standards of some organization, that’s what makes a difference in growing and caring for people.

I have some things to pray about and consider as a ways to help.
Thanks

[Nell]

Originally Posted by FormerLC

Thank you all for some advice that I could take and speak about with him. I know we are all people that have things to deal with, and it’s the ability to council each other as believers that makes a big difference. When you hear or read few words of people who aren’t bound and restrained to a particular agenda or fettered to uphold the standards of some organization, that’s what makes a difference in growing and caring for people.

I have some things to pray about and consider as a ways to help.
Thanks

Another list of resources and testimonies:
https://www.mylocalchurchexperience.com/resources

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by FormerLC

I don't know many details, but a little time after he left the LC his wife has left him...

If all that happened, was him leaving the LC, she does not really have any basis to leave him. What seems odd is that generally speaking, the Recovery does not support separations or divorces without scriptural basis, i.e. unfaithfulness.

[WitnessALot]

Originally Posted by Raptor

If all that happened, was him leaving the LC, she does not really have any basis to leave him. What seems odd is that generally speaking, the Recovery does not support separations or divorces without scriptural basis, i.e. unfaithfulness.

In theory, they don't condone separations or divorces. In practice, however, they will routinely "cheerlead" for one spouse to remain intensely loyal to the organization, even if it does tremendous harm to the marriage and children.

Personally, I'll prefer to observe their "walk" over their "talk."

Originally Posted by WitnessALot

In theory, they don't condone separations or divorces. In practice, however, they will routinely "cheerlead" for one spouse to remain intensely loyal to the organization, even if it does tremendous harm to the marriage and children.

Personally, I'll prefer to observe their "walk" over their "talk."

I agree with your statement "I'll prefer to observe their "walk".. over their "talk".

But let me tell you that they condoned my sister for trying to divorce her husband who continuously sins without limitation (getting drunk, lying to the church, and even committing federal crime). Instead, they sided with this brother who by the way committed fornication with bunch of other women already and is still doing so to this day.

They had the guts to even influence other saints not to associate with her, exclude her, exclude her kids, and even my own mother from participating in church events.

The elders have the guts to tell her not to pursue suing the brother but we all knew, this was THE ONLY WAY to get out of this horrible mess. They only try to stop her because his family apparently donated thousands upon thousands, but hey... when folks in the church gives donation, nobody should've known how much they donated right? lol

If any LC members are seeing this, I'd tell y'all to follow Jesus only and realize that LC too is getting degraded just as prophesied. Do not ever think that LC is the only place because thousands upon thousands of non-LC believers today, are ready to die for Jesus (if you don't know what I'm talking about, just look up what believers in Iran, North Korea has to go through).

[HERn]

Originally Posted by WitnessALot

In theory, they don't condone separations or divorces. In practice, however, they will routinely "cheerlead" for one spouse to remain intensely loyal to the organization, even if it does tremendous harm to the marriage and children.

Personally, I'll prefer to observe their "walk" over their "talk."

When I realized my wife and I needed to leave the Lord’s Recovery movement her brother (who she was visiting out of state) told her to stay in the Lord’s Recovery and not agree with me. He then said that her doing so “would be my salvation”! Silly me, I thought that Christ and his work on the cross was my salvation. This was a very painful several weeks, I feared I might lose my wife.

Beware, the elders of the Lord’s Recovery movement do not hesitate to separate a husband and wife, if one of them decides to leave, especially if they tithe and faithfully serve the ministry.

My heart goes out to that brother who is suffering for his family's sake. This is possibly the worst position that someone can be in. It is a very sad but common issue in the LC (Local Church). I was a member in the LC from 1983 to 1987, a lot went down back then. Anyways I do not want to get side tracked with all of that. I left in 1987 and never looked back. How did I do that? We were told by many in the LC that we would suffer if we left the church and that we would not be over-comers if we left. I used the word "we" because at the time there was a few of us that left. So how were we able to leave and not look back.
1. We kept on reading the bible. That is, we did not replace the bible with the life-studies or any material that would interfere with reading of the bible. We made all material about the bible secondary to the bible. We started checking the things that we were given and not take them at face value just because someone said it was so. That is, let the bible define the bible. For example understanding words in the bible, you have to look at other places in the bible to see how that word is used. That way you can see how the word is defined by the bible.
2. Prayer is important and it is your time with the Lord. He is worth it and you should give it to Him. This was a big help to me and others. If you walk away from the LC that does not mean you have to walk away from the Lord. Yes we were told by many LC members "we were throwing away the baby with the bath water". That was there position but our position was we were keeping the good (our walk with the Lord) and getting rid of the bad (the LC doctrine that lead my slaves astray (Rev.2:20)).
3. Fellowship with other is important because we all represent the body of Christ. I know there are genuine believers in the LC but they are being mislead because "the church life" has taken the place of where Christ should be. The church should never become an entity that controls, or effects the walk of the believer. The church should never ever come in between you and the Lord. I am not saying it, the Lord Jesus is saying it right there in the verse (2:20). He (Jesus) is saying "my slaves". How is that possible? The slaves of Christ being taught by Jezebel, being lead astray to commit prostitution and eat idol sacrifices. How is that possible? Jesus is calling them "my slaves". Doesn't that mean you know the Lord and are walking with Him if you are called His slave. This is the problem with many churches today, they (the churches) take the position above the believers between you and the Lord and block you from ever knowing Him in an intimate way. That is what the LC has become "a prophetess that teaches and leads my slaves astray to commit prostitution and eat idol sacrifices" (Rev.2:20). Having fellowship with others keeps you open to adjustment if you are open to it. I don't have all the answers but that does not stop me from looking for the right answers.

These are the three legs that have kept me stable all these years. And I have to say my walk with the Lord has never been better, it is not perfect but I just get up and keep going. We have His promises and He will fulfill them as long as we don't leave Him. He is faithful above all.

To the brother who is looking for advise in this terrible situation, I believe the Lord has opened your eyes which is good. It sounds like you have already left the LC, I am not sure. If you are still in communication with your wife you are going to have to be very gentile, she is brain washed. My advise is not to contend with her or them. You will lose every-time because they use bad logic and they feel they are defending their faith. And to be honest it is very exhausting. I have relatives in that group and they bury their heads in the sand when they hear anything negative about the LC. They will not weight things in the balance or consider right or wrong. I had to eventually had to give them up and give them to the Lord in prayer. So if you can be undercover for you family sake, meaning outwardly you are for them in the recovery, but inwardly you know the situation and want to get them the heck out of there but you can't because they are not ready yet. I believe you can still maintain your walk with the Lord in the LC but just realize if you go into the LC, you are basically going into a swamp. That is, no fresh water is coming in or going out. If you look at verse Rev. 2:22 the Lord cast her (Jezebel, the church) into a bed and if you look up that word "bed" and look at the other verses that it is used in you will find out that word is used with people who are paralyzed. So spiritually speaking she (the church) becomes paralyzed because the Lord throws her into it (the bed). I think the Lord knows your heart and will be with you in this trying time. And what ever you do don't lose heart because you are being tested also by the Lord. May the Lord be with you in this trying time.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Ex-Member-Rosemead

Yes we were told by many LC members "we were throwing away the baby with the bath water".

What is implied by that, "throwing away the baby with the bath water"?
What represents the baby and what represents the bathwater?

Originally Posted by Raptor

If all that happened, was him leaving the LC, she does not really have any basis to leave him. What seems odd is that generally speaking, the Recovery does not support separations or divorces without scriptural basis, i.e. unfaithfulness.

Exactly right Raptor, he probably left her since it is not encouraged biblically to leave an unbelieving spouse.

[JJ]

Originally Posted by FormerLC

Hello everyone!

I wanted to post this here and see if anyone here dealt with these circumstances and has any thoughts on this matter. I have a good friend of mine, who is former member of the Local Church. He left the movement not to long ago. He contacted me and asked that I pray for him and give him any advise on how to go about whats happening now in his life.

I don't know many details, but a little time after he left the LC his wife has left him, and remained a strong devout supporter of this church. He told her why he is leaving the Recovery and why he no longer believes these teachings are Biblical. There has been basically no connection now for quite some time, and from what I hear that there are children involved. He really doesn't want to be around the practices and everything that comes with the "church life" anymore, but basically it comes down to choosing to have a family and continue to subject himself to all of it, or to lose the family and relationships with his wife and children. I'm not sure how to even approach the situation. I welcome any input, but please don't do what the LC members do, by just saying, "call on the Lord" and completely distancing themselves without any care or subjective substantive answers. I hope there are some mature adults, spiritual and otherwise, that understand the dilemma here, or have dealt with these issues in the past. I never understood why the recovery members are so aggressive about this group, that they will tear their family apart just to remain faithful to it's leaders. When I got the call like this, I realized it's actually real and alive.

Any help would be appreciated.

(Due to privacy of this matter, and for those involved, please don't ask me personal questions, since everyone here probably knows that the leaders of this group will try to read the tea leaves to identify those involved)
Thanks.

I think you received some good input here.

I think it is wrong to think divorce or leaving children is any kind of choice the Lord Jesus would condone. This brother has the opportunity to stand by faith on the Lord’s word “what God has joined let not man separate” and love his wife and children the way the Lord loves us. As much nonsense and however messed up TLR is he can still not attend and keep his family by clinging to God’s word and exhibiting His true love in patience. It may take time to work out. Encourage Him to stand firm in the Lord and the might of His strength.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by JJ

As much nonsense and however messed up TLR is he can still not attend and keep his family by clinging to God’s word and exhibiting His true love in patience. It may take time to work out. Encourage Him to stand firm in the Lord and the might of His strength.

I agree with JJ's post. Whatever reasons a brother or sister has for not attending LC meetings should be a non-issue in any marriage. Being part of the "churchlife" should not be a prerequisite for a marriage to begin or continue.
I know and know of brothers who choose not to participate in LC meetings, but their spouses have continued to do so for many years.

For I hate divorce,” says the Lord, the God of Israel, “and him who covers his garment with wrong,” says the Lord of hosts. “So take heed to your spirit, that you do not deal treacherously.”
Malachi 2:16

[Trapped]

The issue in this situation is not that it's the non-LC husband who sees things clearly who wants to end the marriage. It's the blinded LC wife who wants to end things. The unreasonable, brain-washed spouse is the one controlling the situation, and so saying "there are no grounds for divorce" doesn't do anything because obvious statements don't work on LC members.

The request is how to reach an unreasonable, out-of-mind, brainwashed LC member who is doing the wrong thing and wrecking a marriage for no reason.

I agree with counseling, but it's got to be someone who understands cults and this kind of thinking. But to my knowledge, there are no "this is the proven way to break through to a cult member" solutions. And it's anyone's guess whether the LC spouse would ever agree to non-LC counseling.

It's almost an impossible situation, and I hope the husband has some kind of social support outside his immediate family that he can lean on in the middle of it all.

Trapped

But to my knowledge, there are no "this is the proven way to break through to a cult member" solutions.

@Trapped,

I must agree with this sentiment wholeheartedly. What I found to be the most difficult thing to overcome in this type of situation, is this extreme drive of the LC folks to further isolate themselves from outsiders in order to avoid some “…mingling of the holy and the unholy”. Regardless if a person loves the Lord, he could be labeled as death, because he won’t cooperate with the visions or their body life as they would call it.

I been noticing that they have recently been “training” their members about warfare and need for further building of walls between themselves and everyone else, which they picked out from the book of Ezra. This constant drive for isolation and separation which only brings anxiety and fear based living, is very detrimental to dealing with issues of this nature in an clear and loving manner.

Jesus prayed in John 17 that “…. 15*I do not ask You to take them out of the world, but to keep them from the evil one. 16*They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 17*Sanctify them by the truth; Your word is truth. 18*As You sent Me into the world, I also sent them into the world. 19*For their sake I sanctify Myself, that they themselves also may be sanctified in truth….” Local church members drive for extreme isolation and this “body life” umbrella of protection is directly opposite of what we are called to be in this world! It’s all about control of these individuals under the current regime of Gods appointed. Some latest advice to the members of LC from the top:

“More we are separated, more we are sanctified, more we are made holy, more we are automatically protected.
More we are the same as what is outside the wall, the more the distinction btw world & church is lost, the less protection there is.
We need a high wall.”
————————————

“Lord, build up the kingdom church life. Protect Your testimony. Separate us from the world, from Egypt, from Babylon, and from Sodom & Gomorrah.”
————————————

“Life is not the only display of a proper church life; headship and authority is the other sign”
————————————

“Spiritual warfare is altogether a Body matter.
If the enemy is attacking any local church anywhere on the earth, all the churches should respond to the spiritual trumpet sound. You attack a local church, you attack the Body; we are at war.”
————————————

If you don’t come up to this level of separation, you are the enemy and they will let you know that regardless of who you are and your natural relationship to them as a person.

[Sons to Glory!]

Thanks for sharing that! How current is this speaking/training in the LC to be more intensely separate?

The reason I ask is I was on another Christian forum about a month ago, when a current LC member came on and started posting. It was clear they were a LCer by the things they posted (and from a picture of the Recovery Version in their profile). Then after maybe a week they vanished completely from this forum. I had hinted a little that I was ex-LC and even PMed them about this, but the PMs were never even read. So I'm wondering if they got the word to pull back, or . . . ?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by FormerLC

Hello everyone!

I wanted to post this here and see if anyone here dealt with these circumstances and has any thoughts on this matter. I have a good friend of mine, who is former member of the Local Church. He left the movement not to long ago. He contacted me and asked that I pray for him and give him any advise on how to go about whats happening now in his life.

I don't know many details, but a little time after he left the LC his wife has left him, and remained a strong devout supporter of this church. He told her why he is leaving the Recovery and why he no longer believes these teachings are Biblical. There has been basically no connection now for quite some time, and from what I hear that there are children involved. He really doesn't want to be around the practices and everything that comes with the "church life" anymore, but basically it comes down to choosing to have a family and continue to subject himself to all of it, or to lose the family and relationships with his wife and children. I'm not sure how to even approach the situation. I welcome any input, but please don't do what the LC members do, by just saying, "call on the Lord" and completely distancing themselves without any care or subjective substantive answers. I hope there are some mature adults, spiritual and otherwise, that understand the dilemma here, or have dealt with these issues in the past. I never understood why the recovery members are so aggressive about this group, that they will tear their family apart just to remain faithful to it's leaders. When I got the call like this, I realized it's actually real and alive.

Any help would be appreciated.

(Due to privacy of this matter, and for those involved, please don't ask me personal questions, since everyone here probably knows that the leaders of this group will try to read the tea leaves to identify those involved)
Thanks.

She'll change her mind, and bring the family out. But it will hurt for awhile.